On coming out, and false friends

CowleyRoad

New member
My wife and I have only very recently started in a polyamorous relationship. We don't have a lot of friends anyway, and the friends we do have are mostly either socially conservative or very religious. So as a result we don't talk to our friends about what we're doing.

We'd hoped that the message board where we met would be a little more understanding. It's a generally left-leaning board politically, and although there aren't many openly poly posters we thought we'd receive a better welcome if we were "out" there. Wow, were we ever wrong. Just as we were thinking of doing so, there were a couple of threads about group marriage and/or polyamory. It's clear that there are a lot of posters who we've known for years and thought were fairly tolerant on other sexual minorities are for some reason extremely anti-poly.

One of the threads discussed a person who'd had a poly relationship some years ago, but later developed a mono relationship with a woman--who went on to cheat him and leave him. People were falling all over themselves to blame the guy because of his earlier poly relationship...a lot of them suggesting that it was his earlier polyamory that let the woman know it was "OK to cheat." There were a lot of nasty things said about polyamory in general, and not a lot of people defending him.

But today a thread went really over the line. It started as a thread about whether it was OK to socialize with someone in a group marriage. You know, because that's such a controversial topic. :( One usually fairly left-leaning poster started ripping on group marriage, poly, and swinging in general, and came up with this gem:
(paraphrased so it can't be googled) Women who agree to swinging or polyamory relationships with men are almost always victims of sexual abuse, and men in those relationships are taking advantage of them. Those are very sleazy situations.

The upshot of all of this is, as you can imagine, we're not "coming out" on that message board any time soon. And honestly the whole situation has really soured me on being able to talk to anyone (save you guys :) ) about any topic regarding polyamory.

I guess what I'm asking here is two things. First of all, why are people who are usually tolerant on sexual minorities so anti-poly? You have to realize on this board I'm talking about, if you aren't a supporter of gay marriage, you're all but a pariah, so it's not as if this is some hotbed of social conservatism...and yet the level of anti-polyamory is fairly high. Second, how can you know who to talk to about this? There is one other person on that message board who does know about it...but I wouldn't have spoken to her if I hadn't felt 100% safe that she would keep what I said confidential. Barring that, how can one know that one has a safe haven?
 
There isn't a way to know that someone is 100% a safe haven really.

We've been lucky personally-but where we live is generally very open-minded and easy going ANYWAY.

We're out to damn near everyone we know. We've all lived in the community our whole lives and we are in contact with people we've known from childhood. But we've had very few people react negatively at all.
The few that were at all negative limited it to "there is NO WAY I could handle that". But they certainly didn't judge us harshly or end their relationships with us over it.

Maca is out to a number of his coworkers.
I don't work, but I'm out to everyone except our homeschool program (which is state run). That isn't so much a matter of not wanting to be "honest" with them, as much as the topic has never arisen.
They KNOW all of us and they know we are all signers for the kids and all of those things. GG participates as a "parent" for the kids there. But they've never asked or inquired as to WHAT the roles are between us adults.

Everyone else-I'm just me. Most of the time the question arises after they see me kiss GG or holding his hand. Once asked I just tell them, we have a polyamorous family and he's my boyfriend, yes Maca and I are still happily married and no we aren't getting divorced, yes of course he knows-we all live together.

Our extended families know. I don't think my stepsiblings on my dad's side know-but we aren't close and don't keep in touch. I don't think that my brothers wife knows-but that's mostly because she doesn't want to, she SEE'S it, just doesn't chose to acknowledge. I don't think Maca's brothers wife knows-but I haven't seen her in YEARS quite literally-even though they live a couple miles down the road.
All of our parents know and GG's siblings know too.

I guess for us-we just don't give a shit what people think, so we don't make an effort to worry about what they will think. This is us, this is our life; take it or leave it.

Even our kids know-ranging from 19 years down to 3 years with the middle ones being 10, 13, 14. They know-they don't care. We've all lived together for most of their lives....
 
It is way too easy to look down on those that are different then you. I think that is part of human nature to a degree. But we can learn to overcome these prejudices. I grew up in southern USA and I saw a lot of racism. (I am a white male BTW.) Interracial relationships were very frowned upon. But when I talk to some people from back home, that is not really an issue anymore (because they have moved on to gay marriage). However, it is progress. Both the left and the right keep moving left over time. Many conservative parties of today may be seen as liberal by historical standards.

So for me, the short answer is that it is human nature from not being exposed in a human way to someone of that minority. For example, if we talked about furries (a kink in which people who take on an animal avatar and may dress up during sex) I am sure that on here, there would be some who would poke fun at them or pick on them to a degree. But if a member stood up and said they were a furry, suddenly people would get very polite and may actually listen to a personal story.

You can test the waters some by challenging bad assertions. For example, you can ask where the person got their data that women in open relationships were abused. I have heard a similar statistic to "explain" lesbians.

Another approach is just to some out and say that you are surprised by the hostility toards people who have a different relationship model. You may find out there is a silent majority of supporters. Or you may get a lot of curious questions. But if you did that, you may be the token open marriage people until someone else comes out.

I work around a lot of scientists. When the topic of gay marriage came up, there was one guy who was against it. His statement was, "If you allow gay marriage, then by the same concept, you have to eventually allow group marriage." That took several people by surprise because they saw the logic of it. But then they agreed and said, "I don't have a problem with that."

I see it a lot like gay relationships. They won rights by coming out and showing that they were just regular people. I think poly is in that beginning state of winning society's trust.
 
Gay marraige isn't much a stretch for most the people I know. It essentially conforms to all the other societal norms and expectations with one exception;gender. People generally don't see a problem with one person loving another...they understand loving some "one". They don't understand loving more than some one. I am out to everyone who matters. With those select people I am willing to work to normalize and explain my relationship. I don't really care about or invest in a lot of people so there are very few worth the effort to me. I am never surprised by disaproval or negativity....I posses part of it as well and therefore understand the primal resistance to multi-partner relationships. Ironic that I am so happy within my own.
 
Cowley, I don't know what others have said, because I skipped to writing right away, sorry if I repeat as a result.

I think that the person who you quoted should be called out for saying something in terms of generalities. No one should ever make a sweeping statement ever. It is entirely unfair to do so. What the hell does anyone know of a topic in its entirety? no one. I could be poly for a million years and still I don't think I have the right to say that poly is anything but my own experience of it! They should be called on that, because that is THEIR experience and obviously they have no idea what they are talking about in terms of others experiences. It really bothers me that people reading that will also decide the same thing because of what they said. It is disrespectful to make sweeping generalizations of whole communities. It's like saying that everyone who is a polygamist abuses young girls... or all priests abuse young boys. Not true, there have been cases of that, but we cannot assume that that is the norm and always happens, because it doesn't.

My other thought is that mainstream media has told us it's okay to be accepting of same sex stuff... but not poly yet... they are listening to mainstream media and have thought about it and have decided that it must be okay... ten years from now I wonder if they will be singing the same tune about poly and be on the band wagon about bad mouthing something else... we are all such sheep aren't we?
 
My only advice is this:

Decide how "out" you want to be, then let the chips fall where they may. As Dr. Seuss said: "Those that care don't matter, and those that matter won't care."
 
I think that the person who you quoted should be called out for saying something in terms of generalities. No one should ever make a sweeping statement ever. It is entirely unfair to do so.

I belong to a Yahoo poly group that will ask for citations, sources, etc. if/when someone does make such a generalized statement. Maybe you could do the same, ask for the source where they got that information. It wouldn't out you &, if there is source work, you might learn something new or be able to find a flaw & argue the flaw rather than the generality.
 
I agree with LScribbens. Laughingman and I haven't fully come out to everyone yet, just our close friends, and we knew it was a risk. We had one bad reaction out of four friends, but that turned around after a couple days. (We got lucky.) We're still new, too, so I understand it's scary to tell people things! But, ultimately we are trying to be honest and open and if people want to blow us off for it, I guess they're not our friends anyway. Not saying it's easy to lose friends, but it's easier than dealing with their issues.
 
You know, I should have added that being "out" to as many people as possible also helps to avoid quite a few future issues, such as who you've told and who you haven't and keeping your story straight as well as having to exclude a partner from social and family events, which can be very hurtful to them.
 
My wife and I aren't out to EVERYONE yet. But we ARE out to MOST.
 
Sometimes, people are more tolerant when it's people they know.
I'm not saying it's always the case, but sometimes when talking about generalities, they're quick to be harsh, but if they see that people they know and respect are like that, they shut up. It could have been something like that.

Maybe they have preconceptions that just need to be shut down. I think in cases like that, it's even more important to come out, so you can show a good example of poly that's working, and also show it's not something to be ashamed of so you're not hiding it.
Of course, I wouldn't blame you for keeping quiet.

A forum I used to go to reacted pretty strongly for very small things. I posted pictures of my breasts (not naked) as a reference to someone trying to draw breasts, and people were asking "aren't you married?" (even though my husband had been the one taking the pictures anyways!). Jokes and flirts led to people saying I was lucky my husband hadn't left me, and so on.
I thought "man, when I come out it's going to be a shit storm".

Turned out people mostly ignored it completely. The people who commented said things along the lines of "good for you, I couldn't do it". People took it very well. It was like a non-issue.

I was pretty shocked, but I guess it made sense if they thought until then that I was doing things behind my husband's back (even though it should have been obvious I wasn't), and suddenly realised it wasn't the case.

My point being, sometimes when you expect people to react terribly, they react very well. And of course it works the other way around, too. Some people you think will be fine with it but they turn out to take it really bad...

I like being out, it makes things simpler, and I hate the idea of hiding my boyfriend (since everyone knows I'm married, so it would be one way and unfair). But I can definitely see how it's hard to do so.
 
Sorry I didn't respond earlier..in-laws are visiting. Rather difficult to discuss your wife and her girlfriend when her homophobic parents are in town. Yes, they don't know about her bisexuality either.

About the question of where this poster got his "info" about polyamory...apparently it was from an infamous radio show where the host has a screw loose about sexual abuse. Other people noted that this host had claimed on other occasions that lesbians and "women with high-pitched voices" are also likely abuse victims. Ok.

As you can probably guess her parents aren't likely to think what we're up to is cool. I've been on record as saying my father (my mom is gone) would probably never speak to me again. So while I'm happy for those of you in better family situations I suppose I'm looking for means of support since I know that's not ever likely for us.

The advice you have given for friends on the other hand is good. I think once my wife comes to better terms with her sexuality (and that day isn't far) we'll start carefully making noises around our friends.
 
About the question of where this poster got his "info" about polyamory...apparently it was from an infamous radio show where the host has a screw loose about sexual abuse. Other people noted that this host had claimed on other occasions that lesbians and "women with high-pitched voices" are also likely abuse victims. Ok.


Hmm. I will never think of female sopranos the same way ever again.
 
Isn't that interesting !

It is interesting (poly opinion) but I guess not surprising.

I see it as a combination of a couple things...........

1> Misperceptions/ignorance
I think the vast majority of the public still associate 'poly' with polygamy and all the negative associations and publicity surrounding that.

2> Envy
Another pretty common trait. No matter how (supposedly) open minded these people try to appear, when it comes down to it - if you are going to have yours then I better be able to have the same. If not I'm going to cry FOUL !
As part of the above mentioned ignorance - what limited knowledge many people have of poly they relate to multiple sex partners. Double foul if they can't have theirs !

It may be awhile, but I think the cat is out of the bag. I've had numerous chance encounters especially with younger (20s) folk and people a bit more 'educated/worldly' indicating that the topic is on the table for true discussion.

But the ostriches will survive for awhile yet.
 
One of the things I'm realizing about poly is that it is more common than I first believed.

BUT!

People who are happily in a poly relationship don't do it for public recognition/acceptance. They do it for themselves and their partners.

This leaves the "regular" folk to only hear of it when a poly relationship is struggling and it gives the impression than nothing good ever comes of it. So if you take your problem to most relationship advice forums you get a bunch of "you were playing with fire" and "what did you expect?"

It hit me how a mono relationship can have a struggle and people will lend an ear and sympathize because "all relationships have problems sometimes. you just have to work at it because good relationships take work."
But a poly one of any kind isn't included in that "all relationships have problems" view.
 
One of the things I'm realizing about poly is that it is more common than I first believed.

(snipped)
It hit me how a mono relationship can have a struggle and people will lend an ear and sympathize because "all relationships have problems sometimes. you just have to work at it because good relationships take work."
But a poly one of any kind isn't included in that "all relationships have problems" view.

That's why we're here... we've been there.


(and yes, I stole that quip..)
 
Another perspective

A year ago, I would have misunderstood poly also.... A year ago, I would have freaked out... and demanded fidelity.. because that is the only way.

I mention this.. because ... there may be others who are unreceptive... who just need some education, time and space to appreciate this life.

In retrospect... I have always kept the emotional ties to former lovers... Have been involved in helping my ex-husband repair his current marriage... because I had perspective that no one else had... And that was my gift to him & Deb. I did not keep the physical relationship.

However, if I had known about poly 5 years ago... I might have been able to save the last long term (16/18/20 year, depending on who you ask) relationship.

Also, listeners will bring their past to the conversation.. If someone was cheated on.. they will associate poly with cheating...We scare them... in many ways. :eek:

Our best option is to keep doing what we're doing.. and live a successful life, filled with communication.. and others will learn. :D

Be patient with the world..
 
GroundedSpirit said:
2> Envy
Another pretty common trait. No matter how (supposedly) open minded these people try to appear, when it comes down to it - if you are going to have yours then I better be able to have the same. If not I'm going to cry FOUL !
As part of the above mentioned ignorance - what limited knowledge many people have of poly they relate to multiple sex partners. Double foul if they can't have theirs !

Vinccenzo said:
This leaves the "regular" folk to only hear of it when a poly relationship is struggling and it gives the impression than nothing good ever comes of it. So if you take your problem to most relationship advice forums you get a bunch of "you were playing with fire" and "what did you expect?"

clairegoad said:
Also, listeners will bring their past to the conversation.. If someone was cheated on.. they will associate poly with cheating...

Wow. I'm really enjoying this thread and all of these points are just too true. I think even just "coming out" to our small group of friends, I noticed a little bit of all of that (mainly from one person). I think starting small (telling close friends first, then we'll worry about family, etc.) and keeping a positive, open mind for discussion is what helped and will help us. And as Vinccenzo said, they only seem to hear about stuff when it's bad, so showing the good side of the relationship is helpful... What I take from that is, be honest with friends and family before the shit hits the fan so that they see the relationship's whole, not just the snags.
 
I guess I'm lucky, I haven't had a bad coming out experience (gay or poly) yet. But then I let people get to know me 1st, then tell them. So they know me as "Wil, the guy who happens to be gay and poly" as opposed to "Some gay guy who has like 5 boyfriends, I think his name was Bill". Ppl have a habit of putting stereotypes before individuals, if they don't know the individuals 1st.

I suggest finding a casual way to discuss poly with friends and hear their opinions. Maybe bring up the forum guy.
good luck
 
Whoa boy....Well, my wife and I have two facebook accounts. One for her, and one for me. On hers, she has a lot of her family as her "friends"....On mine, we have only real life friends who we have met and are friends with in person. Well, I told my wife that I was going to come out as poly on my facebook account and keep the account set to "private" so that her family wouldn't see it. :rolleyes: We figured that her parents might be "too upset" by it, and her father is currently in the hospital and dying, soooo....yeah.

Anyway, I came out, and one of my friends said "I never knew you guys were swingers". I explained that this was a bit different. She said "your bedroom = your business". Well, a couple days went by, and I posted that L had a date with a new guy. Our friend, we'll call her N, got on to FB and sent me a message saying that she doesn't think that it's appropriate to post so much about the dates, and that we shouldn't be letting our kids know about it. She said that we needed to "tone back" or postings. :rolleyes: I told her "No problem N. Problem solved. Sorry to have distresed you", and I deleted her form our friends list. She sent me some subsequent messages, but once I saw that they were just more of the same thing, I didn't even respond except to say "Those that matter, won't care, and those that care, don't matter".
 
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