Wide Awake

I deleted it and decided to expand on it a little more. :)

I really do dislike when people tell people to get a hobby, join a gym, build their self-esteem, stop being co-dependent, find some friends, or do WTF ever it takes to deal with a partner being out with someone else.


Oh I second, third, and fourth this! I think it's the totally WRONG approach. It got to the point, for us, that hubby started wondering, why be married? If the answer to not getting enough time with your spouse is take care of yourself, if the answer to not having your spouse do things with and for you is to do it yourself then why the hell be married? Basically, you're not! We've come to a better idea of balance now. We are still working on coming back from that damn advice. Advice that is handed out to mono partners like candy! I swear it does more damage than anything!

He's seen so many people give up, get divorced, because they are basically told poly is okay for their partner but only if you ask nothing of them and put no responsibilities on them. If you aren't getting your needs met meet them yourself! After awhile they realize they aren't IN a marriage anymore. So it's good bye.

I've been a SAHM most of the kids life, and when I wasn't, hubby was. That was the eye opener because he could see how I lost myself, so we learned to try and make it a point to do things that are just 'us'. Meaning for me to do things that are just me and him things that are just him. Still a work in progress but important.

I swear I want to wring the neck of these people giving advice to people new to poly or having partners that are new to poly that they should just 'get a hobby, get a life and get over it!' Sure, there's lots of internal work with poly, why am I jealous, why does this bother me. I just thought the POINT of being in a relationship with someone was if you need a sounding board, they were there! If you need time or reassurances, they would WANT to give it to you!

Pffft, get a hobby, please!
 
Oh I second, third, and fourth this! I think it's the totally WRONG approach. It got to the point, for us, that hubby started wondering, why be married? If the answer to not getting enough time with your spouse is take care of yourself, if the answer to not having your spouse do things with and for you is to do it yourself then why the hell be married? Basically, you're not! We've come to a better idea of balance now. We are still working on coming back from that damn advice. Advice that is handed out to mono partners like candy! I swear it does more damage than anything!

Damage is not the word! We had so many arguments over his hobbies. I wanted to scream. Matt was at that point, too. Why am I married when I am alone more often than not? I think we will be working on undoing this advice for awhile. Slowly breaking it down little by little.

He's seen so many people give up, get divorced, because they are basically told poly is okay for their partner but only if you ask nothing of them and put no responsibilities on them. If you aren't getting your needs met meet them yourself! After awhile they realize they aren't IN a marriage anymore. So it's good bye.

Exactly.

I've been a SAHM most of the kids life, and when I wasn't, hubby was. That was the eye opener because he could see how I lost myself, so we learned to try and make it a point to do things that are just 'us'. Meaning for me to do things that are just me and him things that are just him. Still a work in progress but important.

Now that I am a SAHM, I am realising that balance is important. Matt's hours are more functional now, so when he gets off, he insists that I take some time to myself. He told me a few days, "Even if you just go get some coffee, take some time for yourself." One of my concerns was that I was going to lose myself, have no time/energy for my interests, and just be Matt's wife or my children's mother.

Things are much better now that he is being more flexible with his hobbies. Naturally, he had interests that he wished to continue, and I respected that. Once it warms up, I want to take up some of his water activities like surfing and snorkelling. I am open to new experiences and more time to bond. I doubt that I will be able to get him try yoga or ever get a pedicure, though. I see men in the nail salon all the time. We have found a balance. We do not want all of each other's available time. We do want to make sure we spend enough time together, though. It is all about balance and compromise right now.

I swear I want to wring the neck of these people giving advice to people new to poly or having partners that are new to poly that they should just 'get a hobby, get a life and get over it!' Sure, there's lots of internal work with poly, why am I jealous, why does this bother me. I just thought the POINT of being in a relationship with someone was if you need a sounding board, they were there! If you need time or reassurances, they would WANT to give it to you!

Pffft, get a hobby, please!

I am glad I am not the only one who feels like this!

*Sarcasm Alert*

With all the alone time newbies will have, they will have plenty of time to work on themselves. Meanwhile, they will end up feeling lonely (who cares that your partner is gone for two months with another lover and barely calls), neglected (NRE/dopey brain is a perfectly okay excuse to spend a whopping total of an hour per week with one's partner), flawed (she is a better cook than me; she is thinner than me; he has more muscles; she/he loves that person more; he is more well endowed, so I must be a terrible lover because my partner does not want to sleep with me any more--none of these are the partner's fault, right?), and/or silly for being jealous (get that under control because it is not your partner's issue; he/she should not have to do anything to make you feel more comfortable). Oh, but it is a-okay because their partners have no responsibility to make them feel secure with the relationship, and they should ask nothing of them. Whatever is offered should be appreciated. One should feel like the spirit of love has touched their soul when they want to spend time with them because it is a privilege. :rolleyes:

I have heard people say stuff like ^^^.
 
Good morning and Happy Monday! It is a beautiful day.

The weekend was certainly interesting. A few decisions/compromises were made. My daughter is going to school tomorrow morning. In all seriousness, I was not going to have anything to do while she was gone. My son is low maintenance, and I really would be watching the clock from the time DH left until he returned. With that being said...

I am going to be working part-time. Instead of being thrown in to something new in October, I am going to shadow the person I am taking over for, meet the people I will be working with and the ones I will be caring for, and ease in to a new position. For the time being, I am going to work in the mornings/early afternoons. I do not want to burn out and have no energy left for my children.

Duckie #2 is going to a nursery. We toured a facility last year while I was still pregnant. We put him on the list then, and we just got the call on Friday afternoon. They have a 18-24 month wait list for children under three. It was [jokingly] advised that if one wants to ever be accepted, they would do well to put their name on the list before conception. I feel comfortable with him going there. I was on the fence about sending him to a nursery, but I do believe it will benefit him in the long run. If we do not like it, we always have the option to take him out. He is just going part-time for now. It makes Nanny J's job significantly easier. She is just in charge of picking them up, giving them an afternoon snack, and tending to them until we get home.

I did tell DH about the e-mail. As expected, he was indifferent. I am not really surprised. He has completely detached from anything pertaining to my ex. It is not that he does not care. On the list of things that concern him, she is not on the list. He asked if I was going to respond. I am still not sure I am going to. As of this moment, I have not responded. If that changes, I will tell him.

We had counselling on Friday. Our therapist was questioning my decision to cut my ex off, and she wonders why I just abruptly severed ties when I have been fighting for this for so long. She asked how he felt about it. All he could say was that he did not ask me to do that, but he respects my decision. Very impersonal and emotionless. At this point, I do feel like he is expecting me to say, "On second thought, I want to keep working towards reubuilding our marriage and getting to the point of being able to renew a romance with Si." However, the second part is not going to happen. My decision has puzzled those around me who knew about the situation at hand. They fail to realise it was unhealthy for every single person involved. I did what I felt was best.

All the back and forth had to come to a head. Would I have loved for everything to work out differently? Absolutely. I love Si, and I do miss our relationship. It would be crazy to say the past 12-13 years were irrelevant and meant nothing to me. Before the neglected DH, endless selfish choices, and DH's current stance; polite but firm dismissal of Si, there was good in it. Could we get back to that point? It would take years, and there is no guarantee. I explained to Si that I felt that we kept returning to the same point. The back and forth was not working or healthy. I told her that I still loved her, but I felt like we reached the peak of a mountain; nothing left to climb. Could we go back down and start over? Sure could. We could, but it would take a commitment and work from all three people. With the way things have been and will likely continue to be, that is not something I am even willing to put my hope in to. I could see that no one was completely happy where we were. DH was content and happy at moments but always wondering when or if she would come back in the picture and ruin that. Si was content but not happy because our relationship had ended and dealing with the fact that every time she was close, it caused problems in my marriage. I could not pretend that I had enough faith to continue fighting for it. I did not like it or enjoy any of it. I was not willing to settle for almost always being at odds with him when it came to her. I knew it was going to hurt her and cause her to shed tears. I am truly apologetic for that. I never wanted to make her cry or feel any pain. It is a sad situation all around. It will get better in due time.

I am going to cling to hope that I made the right decision. I am sure there are people--even on here--who are wondering, what the bloody hell was she thinking, and why did she cut Si off?! Love does not conquer all.

While the little ones are napping, I am going to work on lunch for them and dinner for the family. I hope everyone is enjoying their day or evening.
 
I actually thought awhile ago that the reconnecting with Si probably wouldn't work (due to how strong Matt feels about it), so I'm not completely surprised about your separation from her. Perhaps what cemented that course of action was the time when you spent all day with Si and Matt got upset about it? or even the time when you and Matt had to curtail the public displays of affection in front of Si. Things like that will give you pause and make you think, "This isn't going to work."
 
I knew it probably would not work. Both weekends were the beginning of the end. The first weekend irritated him with having to curtail the PDA and putting her feelings before his. That felt wrong because it was wrong. It was a trigger and painful reminder, which is why he spoke out.

The second weekend irritated him because I chose spending time with her over our children, and it rubbed him wrong because of our daughter's feelings. It left a bad taste in his mouth when our daughter asked where I was and why I was not there? He had to explain to her that I was with Si. It was like the past few years were happening all over again. I have admitted to inadvertently putting her before my children. This time it set wheels in motion in her little mind. I forget that my oldest is not an infant or toddler any more. I might have been able to miss moments before because she was not of able mind to take notice or care. Now, she can and does. She is a little person with her own thoughts and feelings that are capable of being hurt. She is at a very impressionable age, and I cannot do the things I did when she was younger. In the end, I owed an apology to my child because she thought I liked being around Si more than her, and she said that it hurt her feelings. Seeing her cry made me realise that I have to change because I never want to see that again. She just knew mummy was not there when she wanted her to be. She understands spending time apart and alone time, but a core piece of the "family" was not there for family time. The sad part is I had promised that we would have more family time, and the first chance I had to keep my promise, I broke it. She had every right to be upset. This could also explain why she has said nothing about Si. In her mind, Si could be the one taking me or my attention away from her.

As far as DH's feelings, I figured it had nothing to do with seeing her or spending time with her. He held on to the desire to make sure their lives never crossed. He has no tolerance for me or her hurting our children, which is why he reacted the way he did. He does not trust Si, so her indirect actions did hurt our daughter. Meet another trigger. It did nothing to help rebuild the trust between them. It caused a regression. Before he was willing to try therapy with her, now, he is shut down and refusing the idea as a whole.

Basically, the platinum rule was to make sure that being around her did not detract attention from our children and marriage. I proved that I could not successfully carry that out or even balance the two. I went to the gym with her and saw her a few times. He had no problem any of those times. He simply shrugged it off and thanked me for the honesty. The catch was that none of those things meant I had to choose between spending time with her or my family, though. If I was around her at 6 AM for a morning workout, they were still sleeping. By the time they had woken up, I was back, working on breakfast, and continuing with the morning. He had no complaints because I was present when it mattered.

I did not have all of this information before I made the decision to sever ties. Now that I do, I am even more confident in the decision that I made. It is seriously not worth hurting my children over. It is easy to say DH can suck it up, but I challenge any one to tell a young child to suck it up and get over themselves.
 
No, that makes sense. The kids come first.
 
This will be a short post. We are making the school runs in about 10 minutes.

Duckie #1 loves her new school. She talked my ear off yesterday about her new teacher, classmates, and what they did yesterday. She was beaming with happiness, and I am quite elated that the first day went so well. DH and I both were there for parent-child time before the school day started. It just gives parents/children 30 minutes of bonding time that they may or may not have had before they left the house. We left her school around 9 and headed to our son's new nursery. I called his teachers throughout the day to check on him, and there were no problems. They had us approve his customised menus for the next couple of weeks, since he has food allergies. Even with the little ones, they have morning tea and afternoon tea, which I think is precious. DH and I went for a walk through the area. It gave us a chance to reconnect before he headed off to work. Things are going pretty well between us. We have seemingly hashed the issues we had. Definitely nice to have some peace in my life.

Si did reach out to me to see if I had gotten her e-mail. I just let her know that I had received it. In not so many words, I told her that I had been busy, but that I would respond at a later point and time.

I hope everyone is having a great morning/afternoon/evening. Off to make school runs. :)
 
Being Out

I am no longer "out." It is no secret that my DH was strongly opposed to it. However, I mirror in his thoughts. We have different reasons for not wanting to be out, but at the end of the day, it is in our family's best interest. To my family and his family, it seems as if it was just a phase that has passed. My family was never opposed to it. My mum was disappointed at first. My father never said anything to me about it. He may never admit it his true feelings in a bid to protect mine, but I know he was never a fan of it. He wanted me to be happy, so he never said anything out of line. He never asked about my ex. He asked about my DH and my siblings respective spouses all the time. He was polite to Si, but I knew my daddy. I actually care about my family, so I was not about to cut them off because something I chose to do made them uncomfortable. At no point were they ever disrespectful, and I actually need my parents and siblings in my life. I did not have a rough upbringing, and if my only payback to my parents for them loving me is to cut them out of my life, then clearly I have some issues.

Children and Poly

I am not introducing anyone to my children. DH does not want them exposed to poly. Our visions go hand in hand this time. As their mother, it is my job to protect them. I have seen how they can get hurt. I should have learned when my ex distanced herself when all of this started. That was a red flag I ignored. At the moment, my child has not said a single word about Si. She has not even said her name. She knows she is here. I have mentioned her, and she does not acknowledge. My child is still upset about what happened a few weeks ago, and she does not have my forgiving tendencies. I had the tendency to dismiss her feelings and write them off because of her age, but I have realised, her feelings are valid. It was presumptuous to think, "Oh. She will wake up tomorrow and forget about whatever it is." She has every right to not want to be around someone that has shown that they have the ability to hurt her. Despite her age, she understands more than I give her credit for. I am not one of those parents who believes, "Well, if they are good for me, they are good for my children." Bullshit. Si may have been good for me, but for my oldest? Not so much.

Love

In reading about the Triangular Theory of Love, our therapist was on to something. Love is not equal. No two relationships are made of the same types of love. The type of love I have with DH is consummate love. I feel that same passion that I felt in the very beginning of our relationship. It is reminiscent of the dopamine filled honeymoon stage. 13 years in to our relationship, and I yearn for him in a way that is beyond reason and rationale. I am of the belief that what I had with Si was companionate love. Yes, there was a long-term commitment, respect, loyalty even, but I did not feel that same passion. There was no doubt that I loved her and still do. I feel DH's love surrounding me and all inside of me. With her, I knew she loved me, but it was just not the same feeling. I believe this is why it was so easy to lose faith and to end the relationship back in March. I am continuing to fight for my marriage, wiping my brow, and pushing through the good and the bad. Never once have I ever lost faith in our ability to get our marriage back on track.

I spent all of that time trying to balance it out and get back to the level of consummate love. Hence why our therapist felt I was trying to compensate for something that was missing. I spent more time with her. I held the relationship with her to the ideals of a consummate level with a companionate reality. I ended up being complacent in my marriage and neglecting my spouse because I was secure in knowing that I had consummate love with him. I ignored the red flags. I was attracted to her in every way, but I was not running to have sex with her. I could go without having sex with her and never bat an eyelash. DH can look at me, and I am instantly turned on. I may not have even been in the mood at that moment, but it was still going to happen. I never compared the two, but I definitely craved physical intimacy with him more than her. Before things became too chaotic, we were making love every day. Lack of sex was never a problem. With my no bed hopping rule, the physically intimate side of my relationship with Si likely suffered. I wanted my DH and no one else could fill that void. I knew there was a disconnect of sorts with her, but I wanted to fill that void instead of just letting go and giving up. I could not quite put my finger on what it was or when it first became apparent.

Si asked me not to give up on her and us. Even if DH was on board with the idea, I am not sure I have the ability to do what needs to be done to get the relationship back to a consummate level. I know it is not a one person job, but I would need DH's understanding, tolerance, and patience while I attempting to navigate the waters of repairing our marriage, being there for our children/family, and rebuilding a relationship with her. I would also have to be careful not to let the rebuilding efforts with her detract attention away from the progress we are making every day. Realistically, even with baby steps, a fraction of a day per week would not be sufficient enough to accomplish the goal. It seems like it would be a slap in the face to even ask him to consider that when I have proven that balancing a friendship with her and our lives was already too much. I am not willing to ask this of him when he specifically asked for a break and time to focus on us and our marriage.

Hypothetically, if I agreed to this and was able to get him on board with the idea, there are several things she would have to realise. I will not put her before my children or marriage again. I will not be able to split my time like I did before. I cannot be who, what, or even like I was before. The old me is dead and gone. That would take work, attention away from my marriage and family, and time I probably do not have. With demanding children, a less than enthusiastic and neglected husband, a new job, Truthfully, I am not sure I could or would be willing to commit to that. Could we reignite the flames that once burned? Quite possibly. If it sounds cold, do not worry. I explained all of this to her. It was only right to be honest about my real feelings and thoughts.

I do miss having her in my life as a friend. I have given up on the romantic side, but it would be nice to have our friendship back.

Recent Developments

DH and I were talking last night over drinks. This was the first in-depth conversation we have had since I told him about my decision to sever all ties. He is still struggling to forgive her, and it is easy to see why. Just when he lets his guard down, something happens to remind him why it was a bad idea. Like I told him, forgiveness is a personal choice, but it is a release from anger and pain. From the religious POV, he understands that he needs to forgive her, but there is a block. He can continue to act like she does not exist and is a non-factor, but it will never make him feel any better. They have not talked since the beginning of May. Plenty has happened since then. I never wanted to be the messenger, but instead of talking to her, he talked to me about his feelings. I had to convey them to her and pass messages between them.

We are going to see her tonight at the Make-a-Wish Gala. The tickets for this event were purchased months ago, and she is going to be seated at our table. I hope the energy is not awkward. Tonight is not about us. It is about a cause we all care about, so we need to keep that in mind. It is the first chance I get to dip in to the charitable scene in a new place and to make connections, and I seriously not want the evening to be marred by bad blood between my DH and my ex.

They have agreed to have drinks before the gala to kill the awkward vibes. I think it might do them some good to talk again. I do not mean that sugar coated bullshit they did in May. You can be respectful and tell somebody what you really think or feel. Holding back is not a good idea. If they are ever going to resolve this, they are going to have to be real about it and stop tip toeing around the issues. If there are still issues brewing between them, the friction will never end unless they address their issues head on. The romantic future has been removed from the table, so he has nothing to worry about on that front. I think they need to be able to talk to each other and work out the issues at hand. If they can be mature enough to do that, then some of the friction might disintegrate.

I am glad that we talked last night, and that we are all in agreement to have a relaxed and enjoyable evening. I have to start on breakfast and get ready to start the day. I have to put my best Stepford foot forward to meet the parents of the school. :rolleyes:
 
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Good summary; I hope things go well at the Make-a-Wish Gala.
 
Good afternoon.

No change on the poly front. It is not a taboo topic in our home. It is just not one that is discussed in great detail. I am currently renewing a friendship with Si, but it is in the beginning stages. I have laid out my personal boundaries and made it clear that it is strictly platonic and will continue to be. So far, so good. I had lunch with her on Monday, but it was only before I checked with DH to make sure he would not be available. He was tied up with work, so it worked out. I disclosed the information, and he said nothing about it. It is filed under non-issue.

My daughter has still not said a peep about her. I am not sure what the deal is what that. It is like Si does not even exist to her. Surely she has not forgotten about her. She has not seen her cousins, grandparents, or any of her friends in London since we moved, but she asks about them all the time. My hands are tied on this front, so I am not pushing for her to be around Si or even acknowledge her. She is her father's child; stubborn and strong-willed.

Everything else is going really well. We are all loving it here and all settled in. I am grateful for the amount of time we took in deciding to relocate. If we had done this on a whim, it would not have been such an easy transition. Our son is enjoying being at a nursery. I am quite happy that he will be interacting with children his age. Naturally, I had reservations, but he is thriving and doing well. Our daughter loves her school. I could do without being there every day. Class reps meetings, parent association meetings, church services, music carnivals, parent/teacher interviews, etc. Next week is the start of book week. There is truly something every day. I need to look at the app now and see if there are any events tomorrow.

The cost of living is much lower than London, which is quite surprising. The housing market is about what and what, though. The cost of education and nurseries are slightly more costly here. Our total for their respective tuitions will be over $50k per annum. His tuition is double the cost of her education at GGS. Insane. His tuition will go down as he ages up. Hers will pretty much increase every year. The most drastic increase will happen in January 2014. The great news is that he can stay at that particular facility until he turns five, and then, he will be eligible head to prep. We also have the option to enrol him in the school's early learning centres as young as three, which would help secure him a spot in the subsequent years. Though he is only one, we were advised to secure his spot now. I would never ventured a guess that some of the admissions processes were so competitive. E.g. My daughter's school offers families the option to basically buy their way to the top of the list by securing a $3k bond. I see why it is more cost effective to have a nanny now.

I am loving it here, and I love our home. We have plenty of space because I have been feeling a bit broody, and we have decided to TTC in the future. Right now, we are focused on repairing our marriage, though. It would not be fair to our children and any future duckies to not be on solid footing and stable. We have discussed the prospect of having more children, and we are on the same page. I am delighted by this. I am thrilled about creating, carrying, and bringing new life in to the world again. I loved the feeling of my babies growing inside of me.

All in all, we are taking it one day at a time. I am still keeping DH/Si apart, so there have been no fireworks. Things have settled down, and they are taking on their new shape. I look forward to seeing how things end up.

I am off to work on dinner. My little duckies should be home within the hour, and I have missed them quite terribly today.
 
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Maybe your daughter is thinking that Si will not be very involved in your lives, and she is coping with that prospect in her own particular way? In any case, I'm glad to hear that most things are working out pretty well.
 
Gosh ....i remember in Matt's thread the idea that ripping away their second mother was going to be so devastating . " Omg think of the poor children man ( Matt ) " You wanted to fight for equal parental rights for si ...funny how things work out. Has this ever come up in therapy resently?
 
Calculated Candy Coated Misery? Check.

I was just thinking...I was something else a few months ago. I am looking at myself and thinking, "Damn."

Our first counsellor was the same way. "It would be detrimental for them to lose a third parent, and you have to consider their feelings." It pissed DH off. He held back when he met with the psychotherapist who implied it was going to cause our children to hate him. He considered our daughter's feelings when he continued to allow Si to be around them despite not trusting her. He has never told our daughter that she could not see Si. She has simply not asked and not even acknowledged her for it to happen. Someone asked if it was possible that either of us or any of our friends/relatives had said anything about Si in front of her that would have left a bad impression? I know I have not, and the people closest to her have never said anything. She is a parakeet and repeats everything she hears, so they know better. She is impressionable, so we do not argue in front of her or even within earshot of her.

It has not been discussed in great detail, yet. She wanted to bring our daughter in and ask a few simple questions to see if she could get to the root of the issue(s). We have a session this afternoon, and she will be there with us. I do know that she was upset about the first weekend here, when I was not there for the family day and spent the day with Si. Our therapist did not believe that is where it started, but it is where her acknowledgement of Si ended. She did ask me if it was possible that my daughter felt what DH was feeling in her own way? It is possible. I cannot dismiss it because there is no doubt her feelings were hurt when Si faded in to obscurity a few months ago. She may not have gotten completely over that. This was someone she trusted to never hurt/disappoint her, and she did that. Many times over in that span of time. It ended with her thinking there was something wrong with her. Just as she was thinking I liked Si more than her when I chose spending time with Si over time with the family a few weeks ago. As resilient as we want to believe children are, sometimes that is not the case.

I have my own theories. I do fear that I pushed Si back in to her life too soon after everything that transpired because I wanted Si back in my life. I never stopped to consider her feelings, but he did. I forgave her and pushed my child to do the same. When she asked DH if she could see Si, it was only because I virtually talked her in to it before I left for my best friend's wedding in April. Why would she not listen to me? I am her mother and of course, I would never do anything to hurt her. Mother supposedly knows best, right? Hmmph. I knew I was going to forgive her before we even made it to Bali. I also knew just what to tell DH. I omitted the parts where the calls went unanswered, texts were ignored, and she bailed on ballet recitals. Oh, I did not tell him that because I knew he would not be okay with seeing her. Every move I made was calculated. I do not believe she would have asked under normal circumstances. One could say she did it as a favour to me and to help my "case" with DH. I used my child to accomplish what was needed; the empathy card from DH. He was not going to listen to me, but I knew he would hear her out. That behaviour was very self-serving and highly inappropriate. She had a right to work out her own feelings surrounding the situation, voice them, and take some time away from Si. I see what DH means when he says I put Si and her feelings before our children and even him. So could this be a delayed emotional reaction and rebellion of sorts? Absolutely. Is she within her right? Yes, because if someone had hurt me or made me feel like something was wrong with me, I would not have expected my mum to push me to be around that person. All I can do now is respect her feelings and keep my feelings and opinions out of it.
 
I am sure you are getting a lot of advice, and from a lot of different angles. All I can offer is what I remember from when my marriage was in a similar situation. When *I* was in a similar situation.

DH is not uncaring, he is not blase'. The big thing I learned, and it was in a book about anger and forgiveness, is that this is the beginning of the death of a relationship. He has been hurt. He was tired of hurting. So to protect himself, he pulled back. Anger, betrayal, it shifted to a disassociation. It was to survive. The problem is it goes from that to denial, to REALLY not caring. Then one day he can wake up and go, 'You know what? I stopped caring a long time ago, why am I here?' Right now, it's a scab, covering a lot of hurt. You have to poke at it, and let out all that bad feelings and deal with them. Or they will heal over and then it won't be a front anymore, it will be too late, he will have pulled back to protect himself so far, that he really doesn't care. Don't let it get there. That was my wake up call.


This, is the hardest part. Believe me I know that. I'm a freaking depressive, with bi polar, disassociative, schizotypal disorder. Just waking up is hard, this next part, was like impossible! But necessary.


FOLLOW THROUGH!!!!

On anything! So far I haven't seen any follow through and I'm pretty sure Matt hasn't either. I mean, we aren't in your life so who knows, but there's always a reason, a justification, to change things. A negotiation. Going to have more family time, EXCEPT this one time. Going to break all contact, well except for replies to this or that, but no physical contact! Going to take time off of work and JUST be home, well okay part time because I'd just be bored anyway.

I know all the reasons make sense, but the point is there is NOTHING I have seen you write here that you need to do, or will do, that you have. It always gets negotiated down. Honestly, like a drug addict. Well any sort of addict. That has to be contributing to problems with Matt and honestly why he still shows no emotion. You don't follow through on things you say you are going to do. You tell him "No no, I'm doing A. You're right, therapist is right, I just need to do it!" Then a little while later, "Welllllll, A isn't totally necessary. I'm going to do B instead. I know it's not A, but you know it's not G either! So I think it's a good compromise!" Then he just nods. Honestly, probably defeated, because he knew there would be no way you were going to follow through.

Again, I'm saying this from what I read, and knowing now that when I did the same thing I was just causing more and more damage.
 
I know what he does/does not care about. I can say with 110% without a shadow of doubt that he does not care about my ex. In all honesty, she is nothing to him. He finally said what I have known all along. "I do not give a fuck about her." His exact words, and that was the first time he has said anything negative about her.

We have dealt with the negative feelings. He still tells me what bothers him. He opens up to me. New ones were emerging every day. A few of that many things I have heard over the past five months from him:

1) You fail to hear what I am saying, and your communication needs to improve.
2) I still do not trust fully you with--my heart, our children's best interests, prioritising our marriage and family life, etc. At this point, he suggested things to do to help build the trust.
3) I still do not trust you to listen to me and really hear me out, respect my feelings, not disrespect my boundaries, not undermine my role as a parent, etc. Same as above, but "There are day where I see improvement."
4)You are incapable of balancing the marriage/family time with that side of your life, and I am not going to sit by and let you treat our children or me like shit so you can "express yourself again." He insisted on a break from anything pertaining to poly for an unspecified amount of time.
5) I do not trust her to be around our children, so keep her away from them. 6) Keep her out of my face, out of our marriage, and tell her nothing about our family life. Why? It is not her business, and they are not her children or concern.
7) I lowered my expectations because I expect you to do things. Follow through is your enemy, sweetheart.
8) Compromising with you is impossible.
9) I am tired of you putting her feelings before mine. Which one of us are you married to again?
10) I do not trust your judgement because...*insert the list here.* Most recent one was because you keep proving that I am right.
11) I did not appreciate being taken for granted when all I ever did was loved you, supported you, and encouraged you to be yourself.
12) I grew tired of making excuses for your behaviour. No excuse for it any of it.
13) You are free to be yourself, but I will not be part of your life because I have already read this chapter and know how it will end.
14) You lack the ability to feel empathy for me because you are too concerned about her. You did not hurt her repeatedly.
15) I disliked having a wife who was only available on certain days of the week. I could have stayed a bachelor if I was going to be alone all the time.
16) I did not appreciate being ignored or dismissed like a child. I have feelings, and they should have been respected. Sorry my opinions messed up your perfect portrait.
17) I disliked having her around like a tag along on every vacation. I get that she was part of your "family," but would it have killed you have spent time with me and our family alone?
18) I will not stand you for making decisions about my children without including me again. In the same scheme, we do not need three parents; i.e. no need for a third person to have co-parent rights.
19) I disliked the secrecy.
20) I disliked being out.

It keeps going and going. Guess what? I have followed through on the ones I could follow through on. The ones involving trust will take time and not just five months. She has not been around our children, talked to them, and knows nothing about them, has not visited our home, and he has seen her twice. In case I forget, he politely reminds me that there are "some people" that he would prefer not to associate with. I am home every night. We mutually decided to put our son in a nursery. I take all of his feelings, opinions, and thoughts in to consideration because I hear everything he says. He resented being out because of the hell it caused. We are not out, and we will not be out no matter what. We have no secrets because full disclosure is the only acceptable policy.

Our daughter wanted more family time, and we have as much as her being in school and active part will allow. That usually leaves some week nights and the weekends. She has ballet, music lessons, and various events at the school, so it is mostly weekends. We do eat breakfast and dinner as a family every day and on any given day, there are 50+ family activities all over the city. This place is very child friendly. We are taking them to the movies tonight, and the proceeds are going to cancer research. Family time that is charitable. Win-win. We make sure to spend part of the evening with her doing something she likes. Painting, drawing, making something, watching her favourite show(s), or going for an ice cream run. We incorporate the little one if he is not already in the bed.

I negotiate things because no compromises was not working. Everything was going his way, and I had no say. There was no happy medium. His end was always devoid of any emotion, but logistically, the suggestions always made sense.

Our therapist probably wants to shake me. Despite her professional demeanour, I know I grind on her nerves. She constantly preaches about follow through with things especially pertaining to my ex which are and will continue to be a sore spot. Her opinion is that I should have stuck by my original stance of no contact at all. The only positive is that he was expecting me to revert backwards, so he had no chance for disappointment.

I have taken plenty of time off work. I needed to do that because I was missing important time with my children. I found a balance. I work while they are at school. I was bored being at home all day. It was eating me up to have to rely on him to be the breadwinner. Our therapist was puzzled because she was like, "You do not have to work, right?" Correct. I want to work. I hate depending on people for anything. I need to be secure in the thought that if I had to, the household would still run efficiently with one income and that I can support myself if he were to leave. No more 80+ hour weeks, 24 hour shifts, 12-16 hour days, or anything unusual. I work from 10-1 on M-T-Thurs, have lunch by myself or with friends, go home and do housework or prepare dinner, pick up my daughter by 3:15, drive to my son's nursery, and depending on traffic, by 4:00-4:15, we are home. DH is sometimes already there and working on dinner, and the latest he has gotten home is between 4:30-5. My daughter usually has some down time before she starts on homework. While she is watching a show or playing in her room, I start on dinner/help DH. While dinner is on, I take the chance to finish the housework, or I spend time with my my children. We help her with homework, have dinner, sometimes we go out as a family or individually/do something with them inside, bath time, story time, feeding the little one again, bed time by 9:00-9:30 for them, and the rest of the night is spent with DH, if we are at home at the same time. If one of us goes out, it shifts a bit. We always end the night together.

I wish he did just nod. He is not that agreeable at all. He challenges most things, and we negotiate. He expects me not to follow through, so he comes armed with knowledge and alternatives. He plans for it to happen because he knows it will. Quite sad now that I think about it. Our marriage is not a billion dollar merger, and we should not have to negotiate the terms of everything. He said something a few months ago that I laughed off. "She is your poison and potentially lethal drug of choice." It might be true, but I need to quit.

Part of my issue is follow through, but the bigger issue is consistency. I elect to do it from time to time, but I need to always do it. That is my challenge.
 
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20 Weeks, 1 Day

It has been a relatively quiet day. DH was off today, and I do not work on Friday's, so we spent the first half of the day together. We had breakfast at patisserie in the next suburb. We went for jog in the park (cardio purposes; still training for a race on Sunday) and just talked. We bought lunch from a food truck. It was the best burger I have had in awhile. I am supposed to be eating healthy, but I have been craving chips and a burger forever. After that, he dropped me off at home and left to pick up the duckie. She gets out at 12:30 on Friday's. Nanny J is going to pick up our son at his usual time because he is on a consistent schedule, and if DH had picked him up, it would have been in the middle of his afternoon nap. Without that nap, he is crochety, and I would like for him to be well-rested when we take him to the movie. It is specifically for babies and small children, but I do not want to be the one with the child who screams the whole movie.

DH and the little one just got home awhile ago. The first thing she did when she walked in was gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek. She is such a sweetheart. I may have messed up my marriage. I missed her today. She told me about her day while I fixed her a snack. She is down for a nap right now. DH and I are spending some time apart before counselling at 4. It just gives a chance to think about what we want to address during the day's session. We always have a reconnection dinner or full date after and any topics about what was discussed during the session are shelved for 24-48 hours. It just gives us the chance to process what was said or think of questions to ask one another. We have a winning formula going right about now, and it is seemingly working.

It has been 20 weeks and 1 day, since the fallout occurred. There have definitely been positive changes. Self-check? I know that I still have some habits I need to break. I need to be more consistent. I need to do more than talk the talk and prove positive things and not just negative things. I need to take responsibility and hold myself accountable. I need to put others needs before my wants. I need to permanently cut ties with my ex. A friendship is realistically too much. We had a great 12 years, but I just do not see where she fits in to my new normal. It is like an addiction, and he was right. She is my chosen drug of choice. I need to break free of the hold she had over me. I will always love her, but I have to distance myself from something and someone that is bad for me and my marriage. I need to make compromises that are not self-serving and strictly beneficial to me. I need to learn how to trust my judgement. I need to trust myself not to make the same mistakes. I need to grow more confident in my new normal, so that I can stop relying upon the old habits that are comfortable and familiar. I need to lower my fall through percentage. It saddens me that he expects me to revert back to my old ways, side with my ex, and do some of the things I did before.

I have improved my listening and overall communication skills. I respect his feelings, opinions, and thoughts. We are still abiding by full disclosure, so there are no omissions. We do not ague. We talk, passionately debate, and if it starts getting heated, we agree to back away from the topic until we can cool down. I am around physically and emotionally more than I have been in the past. I am not working to the point of having no energy. I have no interests--romantically or in general--that take me or my attention away from my family. I am there for breakfast and dinner every day. I am usually there when he goes to bed and wakes up every morning. I go out with friends, and he goes out with his. We still have our respective hobbies and interests, but we have a healthy balance. He checks with me before just disappearing, and he returns at a decent hour. Our overall intimacy has improved. We cuddle pretty much every night. Usually while watching a movie, having a glass of wine, and most of the time, words do not need to be said. The lovemaking was already steamy and passionate, but it is more frequent. Twice a day. I am satisfied on that front. Our marriage is not so serious. We are having fun with one another and being light-hearted and flirty. We have several mini dates, spontaneous dates, and well planned dates. Last week, we dropped our children off at school, parked the vehicle, walked to a coffee shop, had croissants/coffee, and talked, before we started our respective days. Our new norm reminds me of the old days. We are much more open with one another and affectionate. I love our conversations these days. All in all, our marriage is 10x healthier than it was 20 weeks ago, and I can say that this is the healthiest it has been in years. Is there room for improvement? Mmhm. Each day is a chance to be even better than the days, weeks, and months prior. Baby steps and taking it one day at a time. Rome was not in a day or even mere months.

Will poly ever fit in to our marriage again? I am not sure. It seems cruel to throw a curve in to something that is finally working and healthy. I agreed to give his way a try, and it is working. I am not worried about trying to make poly fit the mould and present structure. I have to keep my priorities straight. Off to get ready for counselling. :)
 
Sounds to me like things are going quite a bit better. Can I ask, do you feel like there's an empty place inside where poly would/should be? If not, then I reckon it is fine to live monogamously.
 
Sounds like Matt is filling her empty space twice a day.
 
Sounds to me like things are going quite a bit better. Can I ask, do you feel like there's an empty place inside where poly would/should be? If not, then I reckon it is fine to live monogamously.

I have no warm feelings surrounding it. I am actually quite a cynic now. When I read certain things about poly, I find myself thinking, "Ugh. That is bullshit." I have found no positives that it brought in to my life. I read about other people's, and I cannot relate to a single one. I just feel like I should be able to find one, and to this date, I still have not. I cannot even say a friendship with Si because I know I need to remove myself from that. I cannot say poly helped me to deal with my issues. I knew some of

My best friend likened it to my last pregnancy, which was a hell filled experience. She asked me was my son worth it, and if I would go through it again because I knew it would be worth it in the end? Absolutely. I want another child. She asked me if I would be willing to go through any of this (marital counselling, drama with Matt/Si, the disengagement of my child from Si, the subtle disapproval of my parents, the in-laws blackballing my ex, not having a relationship with my MIL, all the arguments, etc.) again and if it was worth it? My response was absolutely...not. As far as all of this, if only I knew then what I know now.
 
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