How do you know you're poly?

nyjm

New member
It may seem like an obvious question to someone on the other side of the looking glass, but I've been wondering lately.

So, let's have some background and context, and then more questions.

I learned about the sheer existence of polyamory about a year ago, and I've been lurking about these boards and reading up on it ever since. I suppose at the moment I would identify as "poly-curious." From what I understand, the core belief of many polyamorous people is that you can love - or at least care for deeply - several people at once, and that one relationship does not detract from the other(s). Indeed, quite the opposite, they can all create a positive synergy.

I understand that, and even feel very comfortable with that. I've always been a generous person. Making people happy makes me happy, and this is one of those situations where more really is more, for me: making more people happy makes me happier.

So, that part I get. I suppose my quandary really is this: I'm married, monogamously, for more than a decade now. It hasn't all been ice cream and puppies, but it's a healthy, comfortable relationship that benefits both of us a lot.

Especially over the past year (but even before then, I've come to realize), I've been drawn to people - mostly women. It's part physical attraction, part intellectual, part... well, we're drawn to people for all sorts of reasons. For a long time, I would tamp this down, or I'd let myself become playful and flirty for a little while, then feel guilty about it and then pull away. And, you know, it's mostly a mono world out there, so that was usually the path of least resistance.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my motivations for this. For a while, it was clear that my marriage was going through a rough patch: my wife's work became ever-increasingly stressful, our sex life had become boring (and then almost non-existent); after ten years of married life and 15 of living together, it was a pretty natural lull. And I pulled away, emotionally, for a while. I sought emotional fulfillment in the attentions of another woman.

Fortunately, my extra-marital attraction at the time had the good sense to swat me on the nose. I picked up my ego, kicked myself in the ass and went in to talk with my wife about the things that were making me unhappy. We hashed things out and lately, our life together has been good. Despite continued work stress, we've decided to try and have children. And if she's not as affectionate as I'd really like (I'm a very touchy-feely person), she's more affectionate than she had been most of last year. Our sex life has increased in both frequency and intensity.

So, things are pretty good at home, but I still feel this attraction towards other women. I've been doing some hard thinking about my motivations lately, and I believe I can reasonably rule out "I'm looking for others to fulfill my need for affection and attention that I'm not getting home." Because I am getting it at home.

I refuse to believe that there's anything wrong with me, inherently. I feel attracted to women who are not my wife; I wish them well; I like to help them. I like to laugh and talk and geek out and - occasionally - flirt with them. It's not 100% innocent, but it's not harmful, either.

Except that my wife, to this point, has not really been a part of any of these relationships. The other women know I'm married; at least one of them is poly and has drawn a crystal clear line about "No cheating," which I respect and appreciate. I've mentioned the other women to my wife in passing, but I haven't been open about my depth of feeling towards them. Partly because I'm not sure what those depths or feelings are; I haven't let myself explore that much because it just leads back onto the slippery slope towards the land of emotional infidelity.

Nonetheless, I feel like I've broached that point where it would be harmful to not talk about this with her. And here - thank you for reading this far - is my great big question:

How do I talk to her about this? I honestly don't think she's poly-leaning, -curious or -anything, and I'm afraid that I'm going to come off as that asshole who's just asking to be able to sleep around.

At my deep, dark shadowy core, I'm afraid of losing my wife. She is a tremendous light in my life. On the flip-side, I have a responsibility to be true to myself. I've been prepping myself with versions of this story for about a week now, but I'm wondering about the balance of honesty and accessibility. I've learned that full-bore, brutal honesty can be counter-productive.

Accessibility is the prompt for my thread title. Can I be sure? If I'm sure, how can I explain this?

It's good have some things that you want and points to negotiate, right?

1) I want her to be aware of how I feel. (That's somewhat easy to accomplish.)
2) I want her to understand how I feel. (That might be harder; I'd like your help.)
3) I want her to approve of how I feel. (That I have no control over; but this is a wish list as well as a to-do list.)
4) I want to be able to pursue relationships with other women (sorry guys, I've looked, I've considered, it just ain't my thing.) It would be great if she wants to pursue these relationships with me.
5) I want her to know that she will always be my priority. Should we have kids, they will be the priority, followed by her.
6) I want her to have the same freedom as she's willing to grant me.

I'm rambling at this point for the sake of getting it all out. This seems like a wonderful community and I look forward to hearing your advice - and your questions. I appreciate gadflies.
 
Have you ever talked about various types of non-monogamy (swinging/open relationships/etc) in a theoretical or hypothetical way with her? If not, you might want to start there, before you hit her with, "I think I'm poly." If she's aware of your friendship with the poly woman, that might be a way to bring up the subject. Something like, "You know how *blank* is poly? She and I were talking the other day about *insert some poly topic here* and it was really interesting. What do you think?" That was you can get a feel for how she'll react to the idea of poly in general and maybe even a chance to express how "theoretically" you see how it could work and be a good thing. Then later (since you're in no rush, right? It doesn't sound like you're at a "I HAVE to tell her because I have feelings for this person and if I don't do something I'll BURST!" place mentally, which is good.) you can work up to, "You know, the more I think about poly and how it works, the more I think it might explain why I keep creating these other friendships. It would be something I'd like to explore, if you wouldn't mind going through the reading and research with me."

This would definitely NOT be full-bore, brutal honesty. It might even skirt some white lies, so you'll have to decide for yourself if it looks like a path you'd like to take. Usually I'm a big fan of total honesty, but I knew I was bi and interested in non-typical-relationships when I met my husband, so I was able to be upfront from the start. The closest I've come to your situation is trying to find a way to tell my mother, and I'm still working on that, so I'm hardly in any position to judge! It's really hard to balance being honest with avoiding being hurtful. I wish you luck.
 
We've had a pair of threesomes, but that was more being horny and exploring our sexuality than the more all-encompassing lifestyle that I understand poly to be.

The gradual approach is probably a good idea. You're right, I'm in no rush. My wife is pretty sharp, so she'll probably connect the dots of "Hey, turns out So-So is polyamorous, and we were talking about XYZ; what do you think of that?" with "This interests me," but it's still a lot less dramatic than "I think I've discovered a completely new part of myself; we need to change our relationship."

Thanks!
 
While I support the being in no rush thing, I think it would be awesome to have some discussion about this prior to any pregnancy. 'Trying to get pregnant' is a different state than 'ordinary relationship as usual.' If she's actually pregnant and you haven't had the discussion, it takes on a whole new meaning.
 
I'm down with KISS -- Keep it simple, silly!

If poly, just tell her you want to talk to her about something you are not great at talking about yet because you are confused and in the sorting it out place.
And you want to let her read something, and agree to let her digest it and try to talk about it at a later time when she's digested. Maybe in a week?

And what you most like to hear when she reads it is "Ok. New thing in our relationship to deal with. I love you and we will navigate this as best we can as a team here" and not just launch into crazy at you.

Because you are having a hard time trying to sort yourself out, nervy, and want to turn to your beloved for aid, not abuse.

Then just print the post you wrote above and hand it over for her to read. Take a deep breath and be brave. It is clear enough about your fears, wants, anxieties.

I guess I'm amazed that in a marriage, Life hasn't already thrown you toughies and you don't have a system in place for communication during the toughies?

"Write it out /print out to tape on bathroom mirror / just email it "

tends to work for us. Gives the author time to collect thoughts, gives the reader time to collect thoughts and write back. Meanwhile, spoken word life goes on as usual and we try to be extra kind to each other.

Hang in there!
Galagirl
 
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The K.I.S.S. approach has appeal. I'll think that over.

Communication about sex and feelings is the weak point in our marriage. I don't think either of us grew up in an environment where we learned either the skills or vocabulary to do so easily. We're both intelligent adults, so we manage, but it often begins to approach the critical stage before we begin talking and there's a lot of groping about to express ourselves clearly and then to create an action plan.

I, in particular, have difficulty telling her "I want X," because it feels selfish. That's my own hang-up. The acknowledgement of the need to communicate is something that impresses me about the poly community. It's a skill that I know I have to work on.

And oh, yes, this discussion must certainly happen well before pregnancy. One paradigm shift at a time. But something will begin tonight.
 
Communication about sex and feelings is the weak point in our marriage.

So is it about poly, and wanting to have other romances concurrent at some point?

Or is it about craving greater emotional intimacy/trust in THIS relationship? So you can freely share all your thoughts from the light side or dark side of your psyche with her and feel safe and secure? Still loved and wanted, but better able to be the authentic you?

Or maybe BOTH?

I, in particular, have difficulty telling her "I want X," because it feels selfish. That's my own hang-up. The acknowledgement of the need to communicate is something that impresses me about the poly community. It's a skill that I know I have to work on.

My DH was that way. But he worked to move beyond it. I have no prob putting it out. I had a prob LISTENING to the other guy's turn. Esp when I'm a shouter and he's a whisperer at best. We each had to work to bring the volume down/up so BOTH were being heard.

I can't be a mind reader. He actually has a responsibility to the partnership to speak up and spit it out!

And he can't do that and feel safe if I'm all stompy shouty in my style, so I had to crank it down a few notches. I have a responsibility to the partnership to see that he feels safe/secure.

Decades later he's so used to me having my "Latina waving hands in the air shouty" moments he doesn't bat an eye any more. He knows I'll come back to reason soon. Doesn't mean I don't like him, just... whaddaya want? I wave my hands around all DRAMATIC! Part of my process. What use to baffle him now amuses him. LOL. ;)

We feel however we feel when we feel it. (emotion). That's not under our control. How we behave and react in response to it is under our control and we can CHOOSE how to act.

So I tend to view it like being the Weather Channel for my spouse.

  • "Yo, sweetie! I sense a storm brewing. Not sure yet how bad or how long, so heads up."
  • "Hey, I need help/time processing this. Can we talk on _____? Does that work for you?"
  • "Listen, I sense you have a thing. Wassup with that? Or is my weather radar off?"
  • "Listen, I feeling the need for more____. Can we talk about it? I'm wanting more ___ right now. Do you have any needs/wants I could meet better for you right now? We haven't had a check in for a while. So... let's! "
  • "Look, I'm feeling nuts. I'm gonna act like a brat and be totally unreasonable for the next hour. Can you just let me do that, and not interrupt and correct or suggest or anything? Mostly I want to dump. THEN you can help me be reasonable later when I have to decide how to act. I really just need to steam valve here and have you validate that feeling all UGH right now is normal and just... FEEL IT! And let it blow through first. "

Then some time later after the THING...

  • "Ok, that was a thing. Could I have reported in a better way? Did we handle that well? What could we do next time to be better prepared for that kind of weather? Or did we basically do good there?"

Not bring out old sores and rub salt in, but a discussion about coping style for how to improve THAT side of it for next time. Or maybe just even a compliment! Something came up, the partners handled it with good grace and you want to go "Way to go, partner! You rock! I love you!"

It's not selfish-osity. It's just being a good weather reporter. You know. So the relationship can successfully weather whatever it is that popped up this time.

If you have a hard time talking about feelings, maybe add more feeling words to the crayon box?

http://www.cnvc.org/Training/feelings-inventory

HTH!
GalaGirl
 
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Love this description/explanation GalaGirl. LOVE. IT.

I copied and sent it to both my guys, hope you don't mind! :)
 
First, I want to say that your "Weather Channel" metaphor is fantastic. things are rarely dramatic around here (we're pretty chill people, especially her), but this is a good framework for creating healthy habits.

So is it about poly, and wanting to have other romances concurrent at some point?

Or is it about craving greater emotional intimacy/trust in THIS relationship? So you can freely share all your thoughts from the light side or dark side of your psyche with her and feel safe and secure? Still loved and wanted, but better able to be the authentic you?

Or maybe BOTH?

Now that you put it that way, it may very well be about both; they certainly aren't mutually exclusive. And if exploring polyarmory, or even just using the topic to prompt a discussion, helps us to be better communicators and lovers then I call that a win all on its own.

... Though I had never thought about the trust angle. If you would have asked me thirty seconds ago, I would have said that I trust my wife entirely and unconditionally. She's certainly the more reasonable and stable of our pair. Yet, obviously, I don't trust her to enough to just talk to her about these feelings.

I'm afraid she'll leave, or just pull away and here's why: I really screwed up once. I cheated on her, and then I made the situation worse.

It was at the end of the same pattern I saw myself falling into last year: fatigue, emotional distance, seeking fulfillment elsewhere. And I handled it in possibly the worst way. Instead pulling myself together and getting my inside shit straight, I immediately ran home and confessed, then dragged my wife through the ugly mess of my own dark introspection. I basically hurt her twice in quick succession in the name of trying to be a good partner. It took us about a year to patch things back together; I know that for a brief while she seriously considered divorce. (This was almost 8 years ago; but I don't know if time really makes a difference.)

So, when I think about talking about being attracted other women, there's that specter of my erstwhile infidelity lurking in the background. That's probably the biggest source of my anxiety.

It's really hard to put that out there. It's not the admission of the act, it's the sense of guilt that I still feel associated with it. Maybe I haven't forgiven myself. I've rationalized the hell out of that episode; I thought about it and tried to learn from it, but I don't know if I've actually let it go.

It's all dark and squishy in my psyche; thanks for the kind listening.
 
ThatGirlInGray: Glad it helped!

nyjm

Glad "Weather Channel" helps you too. :)

So you cheated and you both tried to move past it? No judgement here on that other than I'm glad you tried to move past it. Have you both fully healed?

We all have our dark places we are not esp proud of. But our partners love us warts and all you know. We are all human. Very few of us are crazed serial killers or something that are totally beyond redemption! Sheesh!

And not to bring out old sores to rub salt in but let's look at this from the "Ok, that THING happened then. How could it have been better handled?" place.

From my stranger eyes? (and I mean all this kindly) Let's jump in there. Ready? Go!

It was at the end of the same pattern I saw myself falling into last year: fatigue, emotional distance, seeking fulfillment elsewhere.

And...

I, in particular, have difficulty telling her "I want X," because it feels selfish.

So you were not close to wife, and instead of speaking up about it, you strayed? Do you see where you own part of that growing emotional distance? DID you speak up about it at the time? Was it not heard? Received? Said loud enough or in a way she could take on board? Why is speaking your feelings selfish?

Learn to speak UP and just SPIT IT OUT to your wife when your needs/wants are missing attention from her. See if she needs things from you.

Be a better Weather Reporter / Weatherman that studies the weather. You can do it! :)

First, I want to say that your "Weather Channel" metaphor is fantastic. things are rarely dramatic around here (we're pretty chill people, especially her), but this is a good framework for creating healthy habits.)

It doesn't have to be "dramatic" like ol' formerly shouty, stompy hotheaded me. "Cold" is a kind of weather too. If she's got a cool personality and you were craving warmth, be the weather reporter and report it!

If you didn't speak up about this need at the time of the affair? Were thinking she'd just "mind reader" it because you are not good about articulating your emotional need/wants? Then you went looking for the warm elsewhere because she failed to provide it?

You weren't holding up your end of the communication stick. Went off to Tahiti to find warmth without her and left her in the dark. *shrug* Can't blame her for not being thrilled.

Listen to you...

My wife is pretty sharp, so she'll probably connect the dots of "Hey, turns out So-So is polyamorous, and we were talking about XYZ; what do you think of that?"

She'll probably assume? Stop expecting her to mind reader you. Just spit it OUT. In time, with practice, you will get more comfortable just announcing the weather from your telescope. Change your language to "I" words -- I am feeling ____. I could use some _____. Please help me by _____.

"My wife is sharp she'll prob" -- that's like

"wife, you should mind reader me"
"wife, you ought to just know what I need when"
"I won't announce my need I'll just expect her to guess and nail it anyway"

And if she doesn't hit the mark because she didn't know she was supposed to mind reader it, you can't be pegging your disappointment at her. Was it an emotional gap back then? Or was it a perceived one because she's cool in personality and you wish she'd be warmer at you?

You actually have a responsibility to the partnership to speak up and YOU are the one that needs to meet that side of the stick. Not her.

She also has a responsibility to the partnership to actually CHECK IN with you too. Doesn't have to wait for the hand-delivered, custom made, gold-edged invitation from you. She can initiate a weather report and check in. Isn't she one of the partners here? It's a two way street.

I'd def work on getting this communication thing with your wife up a few notches.

Maybe I haven't forgiven myself. I've rationalized the hell out of that episode; I thought about it and tried to learn from it, but I don't know if I've actually let it go.

Hon, if you aren't improving the communication thing, you haven't grown past the square you were standing at when you had the affair. So how can you forgive you and learn to trust YOURSELF to handle potential weather shake ups?

Time DOES heal things like that. It was a bad storm, punched a hole in the roof, ruined the floor. So... you gonna get around to roof repair or what?

On the affair? I had one once. I felt terrible but had to own up. My husband and I were dating then, not married. While we were not exclusive -- I crossed a line and had sex with a person I was seeing without consulting and checking in first tho. My bad. Totally. I felt awful because I crossed a boundary line. He told me he was not thrilled with the news, felt that was a reasonable reaction, but thanked me for telling him honestly. He did not love THIS but he told me he still loved ME, things happen, and we'd deal with it and we try to do better moving forward.

I was stunned with his grace and humbled really. I sure as heck didn't want to screw up AGAIN! Weather reports became my mission. Updates on my feelings, what's going on in my inner world, keeping him in the loop. Behave like I'm part of a partnership, not like a footloose singleton.

I think more than anything, learning to own your feelings, talk about your feelings and your needs/wants with your wife?

THAT will help you lay the affair thing to rest. The actual affair person is long gone.

But the "emotional distance gap" thing will always feel like a threat to you. Whether it is a real cap or perceived gap if you don't do something about about stocking your emotional coping toolbox with some more tools.

Right now? You have 5 relationships going on there within 2 people.

  • You to yourself as one part of a couple. (vs you to yourself as a single answering to nobody but you, responsible to nobody but you.)
  • You to her
  • Her to herself as one part of a couple
  • her to you
  • the partnership functioning as a partnership unit. Not the pieces, but the WHOLE.

Poly's fine, but get your foundation 5 on solid ground first if you crave greater intimacy and trust in THIS rship.

Well before venturing into polymath. That's not additive. That's geometric. :)

Yet, obviously, I don't trust her to enough to just talk to her about these feelings.

What's she done that untrustworthy? From your short posts above -- nothing. Except perhaps be a bit cool in personality? That's not a trust thing.

Or it's that you don't like how talking about emotional things makes you feel vulnerable? Shaky? Turmoil inside? Internal thunderstorm? (That's natural weather. You reporting?)

Are you expecting her to mind reader THAT discomfort and pave the way smooth for you and annoyed she isn't magically doing it? (That is you not holding your side of the stick and spitting it out is it? Or doing your own personal growth filling your emotional toolbox up.)

Report your Weather, dude! Wife cannot mind read. But after you report maybe she knows where the umbrella is that you both can share while riding this internal weather of yours out as a team? Help hone your communication skills to something sharper. Maybe she wants better skills at something.

SPEAK UP. FIND OUT.

I'm afraid she'll leave, or just pull away. So, when I think about talking about being attracted other women, there's that specter of my erstwhile infidelity lurking in the background. That's probably the biggest source of my anxiety.

Well... that's your fear. What are you doing about it to reduce it?

Have you been cheating all this time? No? Great. :)

Then... are you both over it? Forgiven at least, if not forgotten? Not divorced, so I'm gonna go with yeah. Great! :)

Changed the behavior that caused the emotional distance gap? Ah. Communication skills again.

I know this emotion stuff is not fun for you. But how are you going to get better if you do not get out there and practice it? Cuz if you never open up to take the risk to gift your heart vulnerabilities? Then she's never been given the chance to show kindness when gifted your vulnerabilities. How can your grow the trust in her handling your heart gently if she's never been given it to handle?

And if you have done it and she bungled it? That's still how you grow trust. You keep handing it over. If she were truly PUTRID PERSON you would not still be together after all this, right?

SOMEONE has to jump first again. And since you are the one posting here craving bigger emotional intimacies with wife... It's on you, no?

Stop going in circles. KISS!

Jump! Lay out the emotions for discussion. Print the whole thread even to give her to read. Practice that "talking about hard emotion things" stuff. It gets easier with practice.

Hang in there. You will be ok. You obviously love her and want something deeper with her. Why wouldn't she be flattered? :)

GL!
GalaGirl
 
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4) I want to be able to pursue relationships with other women (sorry guys, I've looked, I've considered, it just ain't my thing.) It would be great if she wants to pursue these relationships with me.

Is your wife bisexual, or has she at least ever expressed interest in women at all? Or am I possibly misreading "with me?"

Asking your wife to get into three-way relationships with someone else, when she's not even interested in women, is a great way to shut down the whole topic before you even get started. Even if she is interested in women, you run the risk of making her feel like a piece of meat.

She'll probably assume? Stop expecting her to mind reader you. Just spit it OUT.

Agreed. Even if she's intelligent, you're asking her to make a huge leap of understanding here. Even if she's heard of poly before, she probably hasn't considered it. It's one of those situations where people really don't want to hear something, so they'll go out of their way not to hear it even when you're explicit. So being implicit obviously makes that leap even more difficult. Plus, to me that would feel like a lack of sympathy, like you can't grow the balls to say it yourself, so you're making her ask...
 
Hi nyjm,

The others have gave plenty of useful food for thought already, so I won't say too much. Just welcome you to our forum.

I would say it's okay to take it at an easy pace with the communication, but like the others said just don't expect your wife to know something (or connect the dots) until you spell it right out. Polyamory's too big of a topic to risk any potential unclarity.

As for how you "know you're poly," I'm more from the school of thought that most people are probably potentially monogamous to some extent, and potentially polyamorous to some extent. It's a slider type of a situation. So you know you're probably somewhat poly, but you don't know exactly how much. Mainly for now you know that you're poly-curious.

Since it's hard to be 100% certain about these things, you just have to be honest with your wife about what you do know, and admit that you're still in the process of figuring out the rest.

Hope I didn't actually add to the confusion ... Those are just my initial thoughts.

Anyway, glad to have you aboard.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
So, first, thank you all for the advice and the welcome.

I took the plunge this morning, edited my long post into a letter, read it over several times and then handed it to my wife: "I want you to read this; it's hard for me to talk about, so I wrote it down."

She sat on the bed and I took a seat and patiently (but inside anxiously) waited. When she was done I asked if she wanted to talk or wanted to take some time. She started slowly asking questions.

...

Crash and burn. I won't recount the entire discussion because it meandered a lot, but by and large not a good reception. Here are some highlights

1) We've had a cogent discussion as two adults about our relationship. This is very good.

2) I've hurt her feelings, which is bad. I didn't intend to, but I completely understand. She's interpreted my desire to pursue relationships with other women as "Something is wrong (with me?). My husband doesn't love me; I'm not providing enough XYZ for him."

I tried to address this as directly as possible; I love her. A lot. More than anything. It's not about her not giving me something, it's about the possibility top bring more love into our life.

3) She does not not not understand polyamory no matter how many ways I try to describe it. She's barely receptive to reading more about it. She put it into internet terms, "I don't understand how you can have so much bandwidth." And this, I think, is the crux of the disconnect: she is a hardcore introvert. Relationships don't fuel her; quite the opposite, they drain her. She keeps her rapports to a minimum, friendship, family and otherwise. And with the possibility of a child, that's another relationship, which, in her mind, is another resource drain. Good relationships for her are about comfort and stability rather than energy and possibilities.

(In hindsight, I feel that should have exercised my empathy a little more to foresee this. I'm quite aware of my wife's introversion; it seems silly to think that she would see polyamorous romantic relationships any differently.)

There was lots of crying involved. :-( I feel a bizarre mixture of guilt and relief. (I hate hurting anyone's feelings, especially my wife's; but we finally had a good discussion, even if it was hard and a little painful). I did my best to reassure her that I love her, that she is the priority, that I wanted to talk and not issue ultimatums.

This is going to take some time. I think I've dropped a really big rock in the pond and the water may be choppy for a while.
 
Congratulations on taking the plunge. Sorry it kinda hurt.

May I recommend the blog (on this site) of Jane Q Smythe? She is also an introvert. She started her blog at the beginning of her story, in childhood. It's most excellent reading, she's brilliant. And introverted. It's possible it could add to understanding.
And you may have to wait a while before offering it. But you could read it.

Know that we're all here, cheering you, and your lovely wife, on through the chop.
 
Look, hug wife and reassure.

Then see this current thread -- it's from the mono woman trying to understand the poly man's poly announcement. Kinda similar situation.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24911

NOTHING has changed. You are still CLOSED relationship with HER -- your wife right?

Most of this stuff is just TALKING -- and that's the only thing really that you most wanted, right? To be able to talk more freely with your spouse about your feelings.

Most of the actual poly stuff is a "Does not even apply in this closed relationship situation." Reassure her on that. Be patient. She's having emotional weather. Standby. Tell her you aren't going anywhere, love her to pieces, will be right here with her to weather the storm together.

(In hindsight, I feel that should have exercised my empathy a little more to foresee this. I'm quite aware of my wife's introversion; it seems silly to think that she would see polyamorous romantic relationships any differently.)

Nope. You cannot mind reader her any more than she can mind reader you.

You are trying to FIND OUT her views and actually have meaningful conversation here. Don't shoot the whole thing down and chicken out now just because you got brave and she had an emotional wind blow up. Hang in there.

I told you. People cannot help what they feel when they are in the middle of feeling it. They can choose how to react and how to act later when calmer.

She's feeling right now. Be patient. Support. Endure with her, reassure. But don't NOT discuss. Set appointment for discussion later. Right now apply first aid where needed and hold during the storm.

Clear communication is a skill. And ok, so it's a bit clonky uncomfortable right now because it got a bit awkward and it is windy.

But neither you or her are going to grow into good weather reporters or weatherman who study the weather, or a solid couple that weathers the Storms of Life if you don't both actually start opening mouths to talk to each other about windy weathery things without fear.

Avoiding all discussion ever because of fear is not "getting along great" or being "good communicators." It is avoiding.

But before moving forward any more on the mono-poly thing, get her buy in that she even WANTS to grow in better communication with you.

Something like --

"Hon, I don't do this to upset you or make you crazy. I am sorry. I was not the most graceful with it. I'm trying to learn.

Really? What I WANT is to be able to come to YOU when my head or heart are heavy. Who CARES what the topic of the day is? The point is that my head and heart are heavy and I want to reach out to my beloved wife.

I don't want to leave you, I don't want to upset our marriage, I don't want to upset you. I LOVE YOU.

But I just don't know how I can get better at coming to my wife with my thoughts and problems if this is how it always ends up. I want to do better by you, by us. Avoiding talking about deep heavy thoughts isn't the answer I want for us. What do you want for us?

How can we get better at our communication? How could I have brought this up better? How do you want to be treated or approached when I have heavy thoughts next time about some other thing? How can I better be that person for YOU when you have heavy thoughts? I want to be that person for you, I want to be a better husband. Basically I want to get to know you deeply and be able to share be deeply too. Is that something you want too? "

I hope she does. You seem to want this so bad.

Then go a lot slower. Baby steps. Maybe one of the things learned from this experience is that your wife can't deal with a double whammy.

  • Whammy 1: Whoa! Out of nowhere hubby now wants to be Mr Deep Communication, an area where I'm not good at.
  • Whammy 2: Whoa! And the sample topic he picks to practice our weak skill on is WHAT?!

Reassure MANY times you don't want to change the relationship in any way other than better communication.

So... watch the weather. Use the feelings lists. Print 2 -- she circles hers you do yours -- only if she's willing though. Don't FORCE this.

http://www.psychpage.com/learning/library/assess/feelings.html
http://www.cnvc.org/Training/feelings-inventory

What crazy feeling birds are flying out there in the emotional storm? Don't FIX any of them. Just learn to ID them with wife, if she's willing and feeling more reassured.

Baby steps. Circle. Date the pages. And that's enough for today. See? Nothing horrible!

Set pages aside to visit next week. Pause the Deep convo. Live normal life again for a week. Love, reassure, etc.

Next week? WHY are those the birds out there? No novels, here. Just go down the circles fast and why that bird may have popped out on that list. Now that heads are cooler. Yay. Put lists away. Live normal life again for a week. We can visit Deep Convo Growing later. Smooches.

Next week? Well, bird caca, man. P. U stinky! Now that we know the kinds of birds out there, and why they might be out there -- what can we do to have less of those pooping on our house? We could we try together? Jot some ideas down.

Live normal life again for a week. Just take it all in baby steps. Next time there's an emotional storm with those birds? Try on these new bird techniques. Did that work? Was there less caca? How was that for you, honey? You like the broom or the mop better? Do I have you back enough? Did you see any new birds?

My spouse was willing, but horrible at this. And you know what? Me not going anywhere, normal life going on every week? Baby step weather check ins? Over time he got lots better.

And now it's like "Dude! Possible Bird Sighting! Because! Stand By!" and he throws me the heads up and I get the binoculars on. Sometimes it doesn't even fly near us. When it does? He's no longer Mr Avoider. He's shouting "Incoming bird crap! Let's GO! Man up!" and he's throwing me a mop and we're off to shoo it away together.

I'm not going to say we are bird caca FREE. But certainly a lot less. If better communication skills is what you want, you have to practice the skills.

Have hope.

Hang in there!
Galagirl
 
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Update the second: we're writing letters to each other.

Which is far better than nothing. Gala girl, you should be proud, we're taking our baby steps on being better communicators. (On a side note, I appreciate these volumes of advice you're giving, but we're going to keep it simple with weekly "Okay, seriously, how are things going?" letters or talks over dinner. My wife sees any and all interpersonal relationships as a burden and a drain; we're going to make this as easy as we can. Like you said, baby steps.) In the mean time, we're going to work hard to live life as normal and to be kind, caring and supportive.

Anyway, as of right now her reply is "No." No, not interested in exploring "new age polygamy," no, not willing to let me explore this on my own ("Playing is not permitted.") Definitely no, not willing to think about this and kids. It's either/or there.

The one concession is the possibility of a threesome to spice up the bedroom, which really wasn't what I was looking for at all. (I won't say "no," we've done that before and had a fine time, but it's not the same.)

Le sigh. This will take time. A friend pointed out that I've had a year to think this through and read about it; my wife's had 48 hours. And like I said, even if all this rigmarole does is getting us communicating more and better about what we want and need from this relationship, then that's a win all on its own.

Thanks again, everyone.
 
A friend pointed out that I've had a year to think this through and read about it; my wife's had 48 hours.

Exactly.

I'm not expecting you to do things my way or anything. I was explaining how we work to help give you ideas for what you and your wife could possible have for baby steps. A launchpad -- own that thing!

I'm glad to hear this -- Writing each other letters is AWESOME! You are trying to connect, communicate, in a way that both can deal with. And have the breather times you need.

So keep and it and hang in there! We're rooting for ya -- that you really do eventually get to the close place you want to be with your wife as better communicators.

GL!
GalaGirl
 
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