Redpepper's journey

Well (ironically) the statement I made to Maca last night seems a fitting response in your circumstance.

We were having a similar discussion about kids and such. He was saying that he didn't see how we could both live in this house (2400 square feet and by next summer it will have an additional 400-600 square feet addition) without "making each other miserable" and "making the kids miserable with our fighting".

My response was this:

"The way I see it, we can either be mature adults and choose not to fight about what we have already agreed is over (our relationship); and make a home life for the kids that is stable in the home they have both lived in their entire lives. We can split up our time so that we each have time away from the house to live our own lives (we already agreed no potentials or lovers are allowed on the property) but the kids will maintain their home and always have a parent available.
OR
He can live elsewhere (as he has been doing for over a year and more than half of each year the last 7 years; albeit using work as an excuse)and the kids will have to struggle between two homes (which they both express that they don't want to do) and struggle with the additional frustration of not having the consistency and stability that they need as children and moreso because they are both ADHD.

His response was to avoid the statement altogether and point out that if he took our youngest with him to Kodiak, it would be very difficult for him because he would be all alone trying to care for her and at least here I have support from extended family and friends.
WELL NO SHIT.
This not but minutes after he point blank stated that he does NOT want to remain in Kodiak. Um... so why are you even pointing that out?

The bottom line is-I'm not leaving the kids. He was at least smart enough to not suggest that. But if he did, I would probably just raise an eyebrow silently.
 
Well, RP, I haven't been keeping up with your blog in a while and just now read back a few posts. Hmm, lots of changes going on.

I am surprised by how surprised you seem over Polynerdist's anger and how much he wants to focus on himself now. I guess, though, that you've been caught off-guard like I was when my marriage ended. It was devastating. I couldn't figure out why my ex was so, so angry. It was tough to look at my part in how our relationship had crumbled. And yet, of course it crumbled because of the two of us, it didn't happen all by itself. His anger was his own reaction, but there was indeed something there for him to react to.

It took me a long time to be able to see my husband's perspective on how our marriage deteriorated. I remember, oh I guess it was almost two years ago, something you wrote about PN that stayed in my head. You were talking about moving into Mono's apartment downstairs, I believe, and I had asked you how PN was doing. You responded that neither of you "prioritized each other for dates or socializing" anymore. I remembered it because it seemed so sad to me, to be married and living with one's husband, yet neither of you prioritizing the other.

I'm going to be totally honest here. I can't help but think about how most of your posts, in any of the threads here, have been focused mostly on your relationship with Mono, for as long as I've been coming here. Whenever anyone asked about PN, it seemed like your response was always something like, "Oh, he's okay. He's happy doing his own thing, he can take care of himself." And yet now he really wants to do his own thing without you and you want to make suggestions on how he does that. I can see why he would balk at that and say, "Sorry, too little, too late." I would look at your pictures, and Mono's, and read your threads, and it always seemed like PN was in the background, very much like a secondary who was expected to always just be there, staid and supportive of you in whatever you wanted to do, even when you slept every night with Mono, while you and PN were really just living like friends who had a child together.

Of course, it was his choice, too, to live that way, whether he chose that by putting blinders on to how he was really feeling, simply deferring to you to make you happy, or because he felt powerless in your wake. I don't know, and I am not trying to be mean, but it makes sense that PN feels like it's all been about you for a long time. In your posts, frankly, it always seemed like an afterthought to talk about him, after Mono, after Leo, after Derby, after your ex-wife, after LB, after other things. PN was usually only mentioned if someone asked, but most of the time it was about others in your life. I always pictured him as someone who was just there, suffering in silence because it seemed like he didn't matter all that much in your life, as anything other than someone to lean on.

Now, of course, what we post here is not the whole picture, but that's how it came across to me. I always felt a little sorry for PN. Yes, he could have spoken up and made some changes a long time ago. But I can understand why he feels like he has PTSD now. I can understand why he does not want to do one single thing your way anymore. Perhaps he should have started participating in creating his own life sooner, so that it wouldn't have built up to such a huge thing now, but some people really only take action when they finally feel their back is up against a wall and they've had enough. It sounds like he reached his breaking point and all he felt he could do is get out. My ex did the same thing - it was like an explosion. But it really helped me to deal with it all when I took a hard look at things from his perspective and saw my contribution to it. Hopefully, both you and PN can do that.

I hope this all does not come across as criticism, but helps you find your way through the tough stuff you are going through now. And I hope you two work something out regarding your living situation that isn't too hard on you both, and your son.
 
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Thanks LR,

Your words always seem to resonate with my situation. I am grateful for that. I will look at what you said and see if some of it is worth saying to PN in the way you said it. Most of what you said I have told him, in my way. But he can't hear it. He doesn't reach out to people with any other perspective than that he should move out.

NYCindie, thanks for your words also. I completely agree with everything you have said as my part in our situation. We both played our parts for our own reasons.

I remember the day I shifted and essentially gave up on our partnership. It was coming up to our anniversary and I asked that he have my wedding ring fixed. The anniversary came and went and he didn't. It was the first time I didn't remind him, or do it myself. It was symbolic. He dropped the ball, as he always did, and I lost faith in his interest in working it out with me. I decided to go on my own path without him in that moment, without really knowing it. This was during the first year I had been with Mono.

Part of my looking for another partner back then was in hopes of finding someone who paid attention, in the way he once did. I see him pay attention to his gf now and am reminded he was capable, just not willing. I handed him the keys, he just didn't open the door. I am still handing him the keys and he isn't taking them. The door is different now.

For two years (since we broke up) I have been working toward and achieving our mutually-set goal, that we would be in our house and working toward family harmony for LB. I agreed to work on creating changes in how we relate, changing expectations as parents, not partners. He is choosing to end his commitment to this goal. I am not.
 
NYCindie, thanks for your words also. I completely agree with everything you have said as my part in our situation. We both played a parts for our own reasons.

I remember the day I shifted and essentially gave up on our partnership. It was coming up to our anniversary and I asked that he have my wedding ring fixed. Anniversary came and went and he didn't. It was the first time I didn't remind or do it myself. It was symbolic. ....It was the first year I had been with Mono.

Part of my looking for another partner back then was in hopes to find someone who paid attention in the way he once did. I see him pay attention to his gf now and am reminded he was capable, just not willing. I handed him the keys, he just didn't open the door. I am still handing him the keys and he isn't taking them. The door is different now.

For two years (since we broke up) I have been working toward and achieving our mutually set goal between all of us that we would be in our house and working toward family harmony for LB. I agreed to work on creating changes in how we relate; changing expectations as parents not partners. He is chosing to end his commitment to this goal. I am not.

It seems that much of this is 'agreeing' with NYC in word only, while shifting full blame right back to PN. I can see how he might have felt that a ring didn't mean much while you were seeing another man, and I can easily see how he might wonder how committed you really were to LB and 'family' when, as I recall from previous reading, you were spending nights with someone else on a regular basis, rather than with LB. Who was putting LB to bed those nights, doing his laundry, getting him up in the morning, making sure he had breakfast, and getting him off to school? PN? How did PN feel being a single dad those many nights? How did LB feel about missing out on his mother those nights?

Have you talked to PN about this? Is this maybe how it looks from his perspective?
 
Sorry to hear things are so hard, RP.

For what it's worth, I remember you talking about PN a fair bit earlier on in this blog. You would talk about how much he loved you and how much you valued his love.

Regardless of when and why decisions were made that eroded the connection between you and PN, that has happened. You have decided to move on and be with Mono only. PN has decided to move on and be with his girlfriend and her family.

He is being clear that he no longer wants to share a home with you - even a large one. In his shoes, I'd feel the same way. I have lived for a while with an ex who I was still friendly with. He and I both found it stressful and were both relieved when we were able to move on into our own homes.

I hope that things even out for you soon. You've had so much difficulty to deal with in the last few years.

IP
 
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It seems that much of this is 'agreeing' with NYC in word only, while shifting full blame right back to PN. I can see how he might have felt that a ring didn't mean much while you were seeing another man, and I can easily see how he might wonder how committed you really were to LB and 'family' when, as I recall from previous reading, you were spending nights with someone else on a regular basis, rather than with LB. Who was putting LB to bed those nights, doing his laundry, getting him up in the morning, making sure he had breakfast, and getting him off to school? PN? How did PN feel being a single dad those many nights? How did LB feel about missing out on his mother those nights?

Have you talked to PN about this? Is this maybe how it looks from his perspective?
That was years ago and a snap shot of a moment. Way too much has happened since. We have both had our fair share of sharing the load.

My story of when there was a shift was the beginning of the story. Not the entire story.
 
Sorry to hear things are so hard, RP.

For what it's worth, I remember you talking about PN a fair bit earlier on in this blog. You would talk about how much he loved you and how much you valued his love.

Regardless of when and why decisions were made that eroded the connection between you and PN, that has happened. You have decided to move on and be with Mono only. PN has decided to move on and be with his girlfriend and her family.

He is being clear that he no longer wants to share a home with you - even a large one. In his shoes, I'd feel the same way. I have lived for a while with an ex who I was still friendly with. He and I both found it stressful and were both relieved when we were able to move on into our own homes.

I hope that things even out for you soon. You've had so much difficulty to deal with in the last few years.

IP
Please remember (and this is is for everyone, not necessarily just for you to hear IP), we had a successful poly family for 6 years. Not to mention 6 years of poly before that. It was not a failed relationship. In no way do I believe any of us are without fault or were the images of poly greatness. We all played a part. We all made things magical and we all find ourselves in a position of moving on now. If we had not been poly, it is likely we would not have been as successful in our marriage and our boy would not have had the benefit of so many loving adults around.
 
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Please remember (and this is is for everyone, not necessarily just for you to hear IP), we had a successful poly family for 6 years. Not to mention 6 years of poly before that. It was not a failed relationship. In no way do I believe any of us are without fault or were the images of poly greatness. We all played a part. We all made things magical and we all find ourselves in a position of moving on now. If we had not been poly, it is likely we would not have been as successful in our marriage and our boy would not have had the benefit of so many loving adults around.

I just wanted to support you in this statement, RP. It is easy and tempting for others to give advice from the outside, but none of us were there, none of us know what would actually have worked or wouldn't have.
 
Thanks, Annabel. :)
...........
I went out with Leo last night. Six years later and his marriage is the only one out of about ten we could name that is still together after poly becoming their lifestyle. We discussed whether or not that means poly was a success or fail. Most are with one person they meet during their marriage and not willing to risk heartbreak again with any one else. Who knows if they are back to mono or not?

So much is broken right now...

I am finding in clarity in my disappointment.
 
Thanks Annabel :)
...........
I went out with Leo last night. Six years later and his marriage is the only one out of about ten we could name that is still together after poly becoming their lifestyle. We discussed whether or not that means poly was a success or fail. Most are with one person they meet during their marriage and not willing to risk heartbreak again with any one else. Who knows if they are back to mono or not.

So much is broken right now....

I am find in clarity in my disappointment

There are few people of any persuasion who have nothing to regret about how this or that aspect of their life turned out. But perhaps many of those people you know have learned their limitations that they previously didn't, and appreciate what they have more than they would have before turning to poly. And further, understanding the risks of tampering with things that can be impossible to control are now more inclined to pass on pushing the envelope.

I read and hear a lot of people saying something to the effect of "what can be wrong about having more love in your life?". Nothing of course, is usually the answer. But so many assume everything else stays static in emotional connection while that new love adds to our overflowing hearts. If only that were true….

I wish you well RP. Out of curiosity, if you had known then what you know now - would you have done that much differently? Based on your previous responses I'd say you wouldn't.
 
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Thanks Annabel :)
...........
I went out with Leo last night. Six years later and his marriage is the only one out of about ten we could name that is still together after poly becoming their lifestyle. We discussed whether or not that means poly was a success or fail. Most are with one person they meet during their marriage and not willing to risk heartbreak again with any one else. Who knows if they are back to mono or not.

So much is broken right now....

I am find in clarity in my disappointment
Is this the same Leo you used to take walks with, holding hands, but couldn't be too affectionate with because his wife (and, of course, Mono) wouldn't approve? Didn't Leo dump you after his wife vetoed you? I thought he and his wife were swingers, not poly (if it is the same guy).
 
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.....so many assume everything else stays static in emotional connection while that new love adds to our overflowing hearts. If only that were true….

I wish you well RP. Out of curiosity, if you had known then what you know now - would you have done that much differently? Based on your previous responses I'd say you wouldn't.
Well said.

I wouldn't do a thing differently. It all played out just as it should have. I know more now, but I can't blame anyone or myself for yesterday. The point is to learn and move on to better things. I will do just that. I might end up alone, but I will start again. Things will always be better.
 
Is this the same Leo you used to take walks with, holding hands, but couldn't be too affectionate with because his wife (and, of course, Mono) wouldn't approve? Didn't Leo dump you after his wife vetoed you? I thought he and his wife were swingers, not poly (if it is the same guy).
Very same Leo. I have spoken about him being in my life again on here before. He is open... which includes swinging.
 
My life has gone up in flames, along with the forest fires all around me on this western coast.

It started with the house fire down the street on Canada Day (2015) and is closing in around me from all directions. My body is ignited and I can't get cool and it won't douse out. I feel it turning over inside me like a pile of blazing embers being turned in a fire pit. Disbursing the inferno isn't working and I fear it will engulf me. My soul is gone forever.

This morning I tried to vomit... I tried to vomit out the entire contents of my body to relieve myself of the fire. All that my blood is has become piss and sewage. I can't get it out! I can't get it the fuck out and I feel like I am going to burst into flames or explode in a million pieces.

Oh help.

I will tell a tale that is so long I will be exhausted. But I will tell it and it will find its place in my body where I can put it away and move on. All I ask for is compassion.
 
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Thinking of you, RP...
 
Well, here goes... Mono has been cheating on me for years, with numerous overlapping hook-ups and lovers. I am not sure where it started, but I think around the time he had his encounters mentioned here in this blog. Those events seem so trivial now. I always thought there was more going on that he didn't tell me about, and I was right. I think they were his way of seeing how I would respond to a larger picture. I am not sure.

Since that time, he had agreed to see what would happen if it were just the two of us. He broke that promise. He has decided to go underground and has divided his life into two parts: his life here with me, with his family, and that of sex. I had little idea. I knew that he was not giving his relationship with me his full attention anymore, but thought it was because of the changes we all went through. I told him I would not put up with cheating and that if he didn't want to try to be just us two together, then I would not want to stay in a relationship with him. But he didn't leave. He didn't tell me what was going on with him, and decided to cheat instead.

I wish he would have told me he was unable to be with just me, so that I could re-examine the situation and decide if I wanted to be in it. He always said that he liked his secrets, liked to be thought of as the lone rider and that he wanted his independence in a way that meant never living together as a couple, poly or not. He wanted a secret life if we were open, and I simply couldn't do that.

I found out when a woman he had an affair with for over a year refused to let go when they split up. She gave me the info that he had a secret email account. I logged on to on his computer and there it all was. I read all of them, all the ads, all the conversations, watched the videos, saw the pictures.

Before this happened last week, he had broken up with me and then couldn't bring himself to leave. He told me had met someone and that she was waiting to see what he did... unsure of where it would go but wanted to see. He was hoping to leave without my finding out about his affairs, but for some reason couldn't make up his mind to leave. When I found, out he said, "Now you know why I HAD to leave."

The concern now is if there is more to it all than just sexual encounters and affairs. There are some common themes and because he was able to balance his complex life for so long, there is concern that there is an issue greater than himself to work on.

And so, I packed up his stuff, changed the locks, got the full workup of STI checks and here I sit. His stuff is still outside as he hasn't found a place. He is staying with the woman he mentioned. I have talked to her and have sent her the password for the email account so that she may come into his life with full knowledge. I have drawn up timelines of what I was doing and matched them with his activities on the emails. I sent that to her too, along with an account of his behaviour of love and affection the whole time.

Every memory I have for the last years of our relationship seems false now. Before, during or after events and daily life activities he was "busy." It has taken all my fond memories away.

I suspect that many will think I had it coming, that I was the one in control of his relationship life. I was not. He agreed to try out a mono style relationship with me, at my request, and in doing so that came with fidelity. He says he fell out of love with me and that is why he did it. So poly, in this case, was not an option. He liked the game, it seems, and liked the thrill of seeing if he would get caught. He had every opportunity to tell me and to leave. He may have caused pain and hurt but he would not have caused the damage he has done.

PN and LB are as shocked as I am. LB especially has had a hard time adjusting. He is missed around the house. His presence was part of our lives and it is very quiet.

Some of you have encountered his flirty messages here, and some of you even wrote to him on that email account. I have written to some of the people who emailed him and am interested to know more. Every piece of the puzzle is helping me heal and moving me forward to a new beginning.

Mono and I are still in touch and working toward seeing what happens in the future. I have nothing but compassion and love for him, even in my pain. I wish for him to get some help and work through what happened that made him take this path. I want him to feel he can still be part of our lives and that we can have a good friendship after things have settled. Our friends are supporting me and in time I hope they support him. Of course, everyone is angry, and it will take time, but I hope for the best.
 
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