Nowhere to turn - need support

JuneBug

New member
Hi Everyone,

I'm feeling really heartbroken right now, so I thank you for listening, and I hope you have some advice you can share, whether it's tough-love or not.

I have been actively poly for 15 years, and with my current partner for 8 years. I am not currently seeing anyone else. We recently moved to a new area for career reasons, and left behind our wonderful, supportive social network. My partner is casually dating someone from that group, as a LDR. We've been hit or miss in attempting to find new social circles that we fit into, but my partner was recently introduced into one that he is overjoyed with. I like many of the people, but it's not quite my cup of tea (some of their lack of boundaries make me nervous, to be vague).

The short story is that despite being in a poly relationship, my partner cheated on me, and I'm feeling sick, angry, and lost. The other person is poly too, and maybe should have known better, but didn't ask my permission first--probably trusted what my partner said or implied. I don't know if it is appropriate for me to talk to her at this juncture without making things worse or sounding like the jealous wife.

The longer story is below, so more is clear .....



My partner casually expressed interest in one member of this new scene, who had always rubbed me the wrong way, and I said, 'no, you definitely cannot get involved with X!'. I had my reasons, but didn't give them at the time because I thought his comment was just a passing observation of her attractiveness.

This weekend we went to a small, intimate party and this girl was there. Many people were nude at the party, but it was a casual thing, not sexual. She and my partner spent a lot of time together, and there were many times that she acted too familiar with him: touching his genitals, etc. I started to feel uncomfortable, but trusted my partner to tell her if she crossed the line. We've been together for a long time and are usually in tune that way.

Around midnight I got tired and went to our tent to go to bed. I woke up at 5am realising my partner had never come to bed. I got up to go look, and found them together (asleep). I didn't know what had happened at that point, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I wish instead I'd woken him up, kicking and screaming. In fact, I didn't know until the end of the next evening (weekend-long party) after spending an awkward day with everyone, and them continuing to be cuddly. The more I silenced myself because I didn't want to make a scene, the harder it was for me to talk. I wish I had pulled her aside and said, "You do realise you do not have my permission to fool around with my partner, right?". That is my biggest regret.

When my partner and I finally had some privacy to talk and I asked him what the heck was going on, he said apathetically, "I know you said I couldn't do anything with her, but I decided to anyway.". I was just flabberghasted. I said, "So you're willing to throw away or damage 8 years together for a little fling?' He continued to be apathetic and said all sorts of uncharacteristic things. I tried to take it with a grain of salt because I was sure he couldn't mean them; that it was said out of anger.

On the drive home he told me he did finally tell her that nothing could happen between them and that she accepted it, saying 'she's not interested in breaking anyone up'. The crux of the matter seems to be that my partner feels he's fallen out of love with me because our relationship has been rocky the last couple years (our lives have been very stressful--deaths, failures, financial loss, etc. taking their toll); that he's become so apathetic that he just didn't care about whether it was right or wrong. He just wanted to do something for himself. There's a part of me that can understand that, but it has also completely broken my trust in him. He says he is on the fence about whether we should try to make our relationship work; whether it's worth it after how volatile it's been. (To be clear, he says he 'loves me dearly' but isn't sure he's 'in love'. anyone who has been married a long time can understand how emotions ebb and flow, and I think it's possible to fall back in love with someone.)

So now I'm heart broken over potentially losing this relationship and my life as I know it, on top of the betrayal.

While I know he broke the rules, I've been stewing over many things, namely, should I have been more proactive? Should I have said something to this girl? I didn't at the time because I thought it was too aggressive. I told my partner that as part of his reparations I expected him to tell her that he hadn't had permission and had done stuff with her anyway. I'm not sure he'll do that, if only out fear. He'd have to admit to a girl he likes that he deliberately cheated. I want to email her myself and make sure that point is clear, but is that psycho, or is it asserting my position as primary? I don't really have more than an acquiantance relationship with her. It's been clear from both of them that they hope something can still happen in the future. That thought makes me sick. Am I just trying to punish them both by thinking that will never be allowed to happen, or is this a reasonable right to revoke: You broke the rules with this person and your consolation prize is never being able to have them. ?

I don't want to be a bitch to her, or take my anger out on her, I just want to say something like "I just wanted to clear something up, and that is that I told my partner he couldn't get involved with you, and he decided to do it anyway. My acting uncomfortable later in the party was due to me sensing his deceit and what I thought was you pushing the boundaries that had been set. Now I realise that he never even informed you of the rules."

I'm not sure why my fixation on wanting his crime to be acknowledged by all parties. I guess I just don't want him to get away with it, or get off easy because no one knows he broke a cardinal rule. I'd appreciate a reality check on this one.

I'm sorry for dumping a sad story in this forum, I just was making myself sick not writing it down somewhere. I don't want to tell our old friends because cheating is really taboo with those guys and it seems like too private a thing to tell our mutual friends.
 
June,
I'm really feel for you. I'm new to poly and I'm not sure how qualified I am to speak on this, but I'll do my best to give you my perspective.

a. You are not psycho to want to disclose what actually happened with X. I think she should know, but this should be done without judgment on her, as she is not the one who broke any rules.

b. Relationships do ebb and flow, and I also believe it is possible to fall in love with someone multiple times, (necessary even) but this would be a deal breaker for me. Or at least it would take some serious action to repair the damage done to the core value of the relationship... trust.

c. I believe one of the most honest and loving gifts one can give is forgiveness. Everyone is flawed and deserves to be seen as the imperfect human they are, but there is a fine line between forgiveness and being a doormat.

All the best to you as you wade through this. You sound like a lovely person and you deserve an honest love.
 
Thanks for your kind words, damncatfish. i don't think you have to be a poly expert to give your opinion, so i thank you for replying.

You have some very perceptive words, about human flaws, and forgiveness.
Yes, I am concerned about the damage done to our trust, and if I were living apart from this man, and hadn't built up a life together, this would be a deal breaker for me too. This wasn't an ongoing affair. He owned up to what he'd done immediately, without subterfuge. Perhaps his actions in the coming days will determine whether he deserves forgiveness. I promise to take your advice and not be a doormat :)
 
He owned up to what he'd done immediately, without subterfuge. :)

I can't say i agree with that, as it took a while for him to admit to it. if he had owned up to it immediately, and then wanted to discuss it, and try to get through the hurt, and broken trust with you fixed i would see it as a major mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. To me this seemed to be a deliberate act, possibly to find an "out"

The fact that he's on the fence about wanting to fix the relationship is a red flag for me, as from my own experience as a guy when we say that it usually means that we've already "checked out" of said relationship. I'm very sorry he hurt you in this way, but i appreciate the fact that you are able to discuss it with strangers. I know you're asking for advice, but this can, and probably will help other people who are, or become tangled in this difficult situation. So, thank you.
 
The crux of the matter seems to be that my partner feels he's fallen out of love with me because our relationship has been rocky the last couple years (our lives have been very stressful--deaths, failures, financial loss, etc. taking their toll); that he's become so apathetic that he just didn't care about whether it was right or wrong. He just wanted to do something for himself. There's a part of me that can understand that, but it has also completely broken my trust in him. He says he is on the fence about whether we should try to make our relationship work; whether it's worth it after how volatile it's been. (To be clear, he says he 'loves me dearly' but isn't sure he's 'in love'. anyone who has been married a long time can understand how emotions ebb and flow, and I think it's possible to fall back in love with someone.)

It sounds like he is crying out for a bit of help. The two of you have had a rough go of it and I can see how wanting something for yourself within that would make him think it would be okay. Unfortunately he has created something else for himself and that is guilt and your lack of trust. If someone were to do this to me they would be out on their ass. At least until the whole thing could be sorted. Because I think there is potential for forgiveness.

There are two things that concern me here.

One being that he did this right in front of your face! What kind of respect is that?! I would think that he made you feel like an idiot in front of all the others that were there as they had to of noticed the "air" between you.

The other is that he acted apathetically. He seems to be completely stuck/fenced in/boxed in about your relationship and where it is at. This deserves a long hard look at, possibly with a counselor, to find out what that is to him and how to work out some way of freeing him up somehow in a way that works for you too. It could be about unfinished hardship or about how you both have been dealing with your relationship... only you two could figure that out.

As for telling the woman... I wouldn't be holding back on that personally. She should of asked and he should of told her what your thoughts were on him getting together with her. While I think she is less to blame, I still don't believe it wasn't in the back of her mind as the heat of the moment arouse.

I wouldn't be surprised if she rationalized it all away at that point as it wasn't sexy to talk about. Much like some do around safe sex... it isn't sexy to talk about your partner with a person you are just about to have sex with, as it isn't sexy to talk about wearing a condom. He did wear one right? That would create a whole other issue for me!!!!
 
It sounds to me like the big issue is with your partner. That other woman seems to have just been caught up in it. If he is that apathetic about the relationsship that he doesn't care if he has your trust or not, then that sounds like the crux of it all.

I think you should find out if he is really apathetic. Does he really want to continue the relationship? Maybe it would be good to allow the relationship to grow apart as opposed to try to stick something out that could cause resentment.

You sound very reasonable in dealing with this. It would be very easy to forgive and try to forget or work past this. However, I think that this is a huge warning sign that needs to be addressed instead of dealing with the symptoms of the cheating.

i wish you well in dealing with this.
 
I hope redpepper is right, and it was a cry for help, and not as JonnyAce thought: that he's looking for an out. I don't know which it is. He did go talk to a counselor last night, and wants me to go alone, then us together. This is a poly/relationship counselor. I have to think that it's a good sign he went independently. He does feel bad about what he did, but we haven't had a lot of opportunity to talk about things further because of our different work schedules and him being at the counselor for a long time last night.

I find it interesting that everyone here thinks it would be ok to talk to the other woman, but the person whose advice i trust the most irl said no, it's your boyfriends problem/mistake, not hers. he thinks it would complicate things, or i would get upset and make it worse. now that redpepper has put it into words, I do think one of the big reasons I want to say something to her is because he did make me look like a fool in front of other people. I was very good about keeping my composure so most people did not know (this from the party host), but she did and I want her to know. I do think her actions played a part in this and I don't want her to be a part of a Next Time with some other unsuspecting couple. But I can tell I'm still coming from a place of anger with regard to the part she played, so I'm on the fence about it. Perhaps my friend is right: no good result can come.
 
I am a cynical person and I would have to venture that maybe the two of them deserve each other.

I realize that this is not a constructive thing to say from the poly point of view, but sometimes you gotta call 'em as you sees 'em. Of course, I don't know any of you and I'm just disembodied text on a screen so don't listen to a thing I say if it ain't what ya wanna hear.
 
I am a cynical person and I would have to venture that maybe the two of them deserve each other.

She is an apparently happily married woman, so is not available for that. And despite whatever he's going through right now that is making him act this way, he has been a good guy.


I understand where your cynicism comes from, but it would make me feel like shit to be cuckolded like that. I have previously had another woman break up a relationship (but she was quite deliberate--it's such a shame when your partner is too blinded by love or lust to see the other for what they really are. It may be that past baggage that is fueling me to be more assertive.) and I can't tell you how relieved and redeemed I felt when they finally broke up. I don't want to go through any of the above ever again. I knew from the getgo that being poly had the potential for both more love and more heartbreak, but in times like this I find it very hard to keep seeking out more love.
 
She is an apparently happily married woman, so is not available for that. And despite whatever he's going through right now that is making him act this way, he has been a good guy.

If she's so "happily married" then you should DEFINITELY have things out in the open with her. And if all of you are into this poly-lifestyle, what makes her "not available for that"? Is she going against a boundary-agreement she has with HER husband, maybe?

I realize I may have my head up my ass, but I understand your situation less and less the more you try to explain it.

I am sorry that I can't say something more constructive to you.
 
Before I put in my two cents, I needed some clarification. Are you practicing POLYAMORY or SWINGING? In polyamory there is a deeper connection than sex. It involves multiple loves who share in your life as well as your bed. The attachments are primarily emotional and the sex, while tied in, is often secondary. Swinging is more of a relationship open to outside sex partners but not deep emotional attachments. You may be casual friends, but usually not deeper than that.

The party you described sounded like a swingers party, especially being this woman was touching your husband's genitals and this was somehow not a crossing of a boundary. Also you describe her as not available to a relationship with your husband.

I'm confused as to where on this spectrum you fall. Can you explain what you meant when you said you were polyamorus? :confused:
 
I am Polyamorous. I dislike casual sexual encounters. You are right - this new group of people sounds a bit more like swingers, though many of them call themselves poly. the popular phrase is 'friends with benefits'. My partner used to feel more like I do: we only had serious relationships with others. He has explained to me that we had that rule when we were younger, in order to protect ourselves physically and mentally, but now that we're dealing with people in their 30s and 40s who are safe and generally mature, it's not the same issue. I'm not sure I'm explaining that point as rationally as he makes it sound, because I still disagree with it. Especially in light of what has just happened.

Also, I completely botched the 'she's married and not available for that' comment. I was reacting to what YGirl was saying when she said it sounded like they deserved each other. I was thinking, 'well she can't run off with my partner and go be rotten bastards together because she's married and is going to keep her husband primary'.

I'm sorry that I'm doing a poor job of explaining everything. My head is so clouded and confused right now. He and I have done a lot of talking and there is so much surfacing that it's startling. Damage he did to our relationship, damage I did to our relationship .... I'm not sure we'll survive but we aren't going down easy. There are a lot of issues to overcome, and lifestyle disagreements. I thought it was easy sailing after we'd made our original rules--tweaked them here and there over the years--but I don't want him to become a swinger, and I think he's feeling trapped and a need to sow his wild oats (not just sex, but crazy parties and drugs and acting foolish). That makes me really sad and feeling inadequate.

He says he feels lost and doesn't know who he is anymore, so I guess if he's going through some iteration of a mid-life crisis, that would explain wanting to do something drastic. He's helped me through my crisis; I'd like to help him through his, but I don't know where to start. I guess that depends on whether he thinks he still wants me or not.

btw, he did tell the other woman that what he'd done with her was cheating. Her response was, 'I am sorry I was a party to that, but I wasn't a knowing party'. ie, "It's not my fault so I'm not going to feel bad". I guess it's not, but I had hoped for more solidarity from her. I guess I was hoping she would punish him with her anger too. He didn't like that I said FOR REAL he can't do anything with her while we're figuring this out. I told him he didn't get Forgiveness AND Permission; he couldn't have both. THAT he understood. (That was me practicing not being a doormat)
 
Ok. No need for apologizing for lack of clarity in your state of mind. It's understandable. I just thought it would be easier to ask so we could better relate to/advise/offer support.

First, (and I should have said this before) this situation just plain sucks and I am so sorry you are left hurting. I can't imagine how I'd feel if my husband pulled this on me but it wouldn't be good. He acted selfishly and I'm sure your heart is breaking, years of love before or not. In fact, probably more so because of the history.

Before I address him, though, I would like to address the woman in this situation. This group DOES sound like swingers and not truly poly people. When you and your husband entered the party and she flirted with him and casually touched his genitals in front of you (even worse if either or both were naked) and neither he nor you reacted negatively, I'm sure she saw it as a green light. If she is a swinger, you were attending the party, she touched him intimately with no repercussions, and you then left them alone (and he did not tell her of your feelings) she really didn't do anything wrong. Not looking for an emotional attachment and not having been chastised for her attention to him and being left to her devices, she reacted to the situation she believed she was getting herself into. I still believe you should talk to her, not as an enemy, but as a fellow victim of his cheating. Make it clear he is not allowed to be with her again, nor ANYONE else while you work out your relationship. If you do this in a non-offensive way she may actually help keep others from being involved with him as well as stay away herself.

Now, for him. I can give you the perspective of someone who has been a cheater. A couple of years ago my husband and I went through quite a bit of drama, both external and internal to our relationship. We ended up to the point where we were alternating between indifferent and outright hostile towards eachother. At the worst of it I had a male friend whom I trusted and confided in. He made it clear that he had deeper feelings for me. I did not want to be involved with this other man. But, having no attachment to my husband and not wanting to lose the one I had to the other man, I cheated on my husband. It was entirely out of selfish need for the affection and attention I felt I wasn't getting. I soon realized I had nothing left to lose when we started talking divorce and I confessed. For the first time in years my husband and I really talked. For the first time in years I saw emotions in him other than resentment, anger, and indifference. We realized there was still love there and it was worth working at. About two years later and we are happier and more stable than we have ever been. But it took effort and desire on both parties to make that happen. And time. Your husband may have any reason for going through this period in his life. But if he is willing to control himself, communicate, and seriously work on the issues and you are willing to give him that chance and work yourself, this sad experience can be a catalyst for a major change for the better. But BOTH of you have to be willing to make this work, so continue to not be a doormat please. The differences in relationship philosophy seriously worry me as well as your suspicion he just wants to party without caring about the consequences. He needs to remember you have a relationship and what he does affects you. So you get a say in it. Marriage is not a dictatorship-no relationship should be. If he can't understand that...I'm sorry, but my only advice is to let him go destroy himself if he must, but do not go down that path with him.

I wish you well and hope everything works towards what will ultimately make you happiest.
 
XYZ, thank you so much! That was really helpful and I sincerely thank you for sharing so much personal information. I'm glad you and your husband had a happy ending. I hope mine is willing to work toward that too, but I know he's still undecided. I know what you mean, about talking more honestly than ever before. He is kind of a wreck right now too, but he has had more time to get used to the idea of us not being together, seeing as he 'checked out' awhile ago. He says he WANTS to stay together, but is not sure we CAN; that we'll continue to damage each other if we don't fix our communication problems. I agree, but don't think it's insurmountable. A lot of work, yes, but possible. I am holding out hope, and I still see a glimmer of hope in him that maybe will grow. But you're right - only if we can agree on relationship styles. I want to repair the relationship so badly that it's very easy to lose sight of those warning signs. I can't let him take me down with him.

I don't have any experience with swingers, so your explanations made a lot of sense. I feel naive. It explains a lot though, and now I know.
 
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