Just LR

Nyc-that would be great, if she didn't hallen to be married with a live-in bf and child AND expect that THEIR boundaries. E respected and honored (like Maca can't go there when bf is home because bf doesn't like it).

It's not a matter of more or less boundaries, she has a whole series too. It's a matter of wanting things her way ONLY. Which-would be fine IF she wasn't also complaining that she wAnts to go on OUR family activities.

If he wants a fuckbuddy-he can do that, just can't bring them to our house or around me and the kids.
SHE wants the privilege of being at our family gatherings and activities as his gf-without the responsibility of respecting the rest of us (not just me).
 
As for the boundaries themselves, as well the board knows, they are primarily all for Maca's benefit. He is severely insecure about my relationship with GG. He isn't willing to allow us more freedom. Those boundaries allow him to feel safer in our dynamic.
There could be less if he really actively pursued resolving his insecurities.

But-the basic necessity to deal with me and be companionable with me in order to be invited to participate in family functions will never ever change.

Anyone who wants to be around us as a group will be expected to treat EACH of us appropriately and if they flat refuse to even go to coffee with us-they won't be invited. That is just stupid.

Its also pertinent I suppose, to note, that no potential would be subjected to going over that whole list. Thats OUR list. It details agreed upon definitions for us, because we didnt define relationships the same. So we wrote down an agrred upon definition of what types of things fit under what term.

Likewise, there is no need to tell someone they can't shower in the purple bathroom together. Just take them to the other shower. Same with towels. Those towels are kept in my dresser. Why would anyone be digging in my dresser?!? They are written for our benefit, our understanding of what we need.
 
How do boundaries work?

First, we have a list of definitions on our boundary agreement. Those definitions clarify for us what it is that we've agreed are the behaviors that go with certain types of relationships. Because we didn't have the same understandings when we first met. I was much more liberal and that meant I was tromping on his toes.

So, for example, our definition for friend says,

they've met your SO
see 2-3 times a week
coffee/lunch social times ok but no romantic dates
invite to family time ok w/so permission
so always welcome to join
remain coupled with so in group setting
no kissing, caressing, cuddling, fondling, making out, sex, nudity, nude photos, personalized sex talk, cybersex.

Now, I have friends from school. Upon meeting them, I don't tell them "I'm sorry we can't be friends until you meet my SO".
But, I do make sure that the first time I invite them to hang out-it's with his permission AND when he's present. That covers him meeting them.

I would do that EVEN IF WE WEREN'T POLY-that is a basic component of how we show our respect for each other period.

Likewise-I don't tell them "we can't go on romantic dates". I don't need to. I just need to know that for myself. If they invite me to coffee, lunch, etc it's a go. If they suggest dinner, I simply respond with "evenings are for our family, is it something I can bring them along?" and go from there.
This has NEVER been complicated or difficult. In fact, it's been appreciated and complimented.

I don't tell them "I need to be sure you are ok with my partner coming along at any time" either.
I simply make it clear in my words and actions and behaviors that my partner is a meaningful FULL part of my life. I invite them to participate in activities that include my partner, I make my RSVP's including my partner. It's really a no brainer-because I've never encountered a soul who expected otherwise. EVEN the people who don't operate that way in their own lives-figure out within 10 minutes around me that I do everything with my family and they understand that part of who I am.

Additionally, the "remaining coupled" isn't something that needs discussed or what behaviors aren't acceptable unless someone tries to do them. If a friend tried to kiss me-I would gently but firmly tell them that makes me uncomfortable and I don't appreciate it. End of story.
 
Nyc-that would be great, if she didn't hallen to be married with a live-in bf and child AND expect that THEIR boundaries. E respected and honored (like Maca can't go there when bf is home because bf doesn't like it).

It's not a matter of more or less boundaries, she has a whole series too. It's a matter of wanting things her way ONLY. Which-would be fine IF she wasn't also complaining that she wAnts to go on OUR family activities.

Oh shit, I thought she was single, footloose, and fancy-free. But still, why does she choose to whine, complain, and generally avoid the boundaries he has with you when, if it's too complicated for her, she can just stop seeing him? I guess she's just a spoiled brat. <sigh> It's too bad that Maca has this thing about keeping score with you and always feeling like he's not getting enough if he doesn't have an additional relationship like you do. It severely clouds his judgment.

Oh, and I wasn't criticizing your boundaries (I don't think anyone was), so there is no need to explain or defend them. It's just that I can see how it would make life complicated to a certain degree and we all have our tolerance levels. But she's stomping her foot about it like a baby, which is so unproductive.
 
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How do boundaries work part two-a potential new partner..

SO,
This weekend, I met a lady, who I may at some point be interested in having more of a personal relationship with. Who knows.

I didn't tell HER that. That would be AWKWARD! We just met.

I DID tell Maca that. That is how the boundary comes into play with "ok'd by SO".

I won't be telling her that.

I didn't tell her there is a limit to 1-2 visits a week with her either.
I KNOW THAT-so I won't schedule more than that. She DID ask me when I was in town (I live out of town) and I told her that M,W,F I am in town. I didn't tell her "alone time visits" can only be 1 time a week.
She doesn't need such details! I know that-so I will respect that agreement with my partner. Same with romantic dates being ok-she doesn't need to know that. If we get to that point, and one or the other of us asks for a date that is romantic in nature, it's ok so I can go.

I won't tell her "I have to ask my SO if it's ok before inviting you out to a family gathering". That would already have been DONE if I were inviting her!

I won't be telling her my SO is always welcome to join me-I live my life that way. i will let her know "WE are going to be in town-are you avail for coffee or a walk?" If she invites me I would say, "I'd love to, Maca and I are going to be in town that day we'd love to come!"

I don't need to tell her what behaviors aren't allowed sexually. I won't try to do them. If she does, I would simply stop her gently and tell her, "I find you very attractive, but this is too fast for me."


So, no I don't think these boundaries are complicated for another person. Because most of it-they need not go over with us.

The only key pieces that need to be addressed are as follows:

1. I'm part of a loving, committed, full time family that is pretty complicated. I'm a student, I homeschool two kids and babysit my grandson. My husband and my boyfriend work full time and we try to devote weekends to the family.

(THAT is something I say so many times a day I can't begin to imagine it being awkward to bring up-it's a natural part of describing ME)

2. Unfortunately, that makes my schedule CRAZY hectic and limits my social availability. (again, this is such a frequent statement in my day-that it's not awkward)

IF we're already at the stage of aiming to be sexually active:

3. I have herpes. I don't use protection with my husband or my boyfriend. We've agreed that we won't have sex with outside lovers before STI tests are done all around. We also commit to taking them every 6 months.
**THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE and it's a primary point of contention with her**

4. Because of family responsibilities, overnights aren't a realistic option for me right now.


That's it. The rest is a matter of me and him choosing to behave in the way we've defined for our relationship. As it's OUR behavior-it's not necessary to define it for someone else.
IF they asked questions about it-then I would hope we would answer honestly.

Where things have gone awry with her-is that he laid everything out as if every issue that may arise was based upon MY "rules" for him. When in fact these are the limits WE want for OURSELVES. He did it because he's so desperate to have SOMEONE-that he will say or do whatever he thinks they want to hear in order to impress them. It's happened with EVERY SINGLE WOMAN he's been interested in.

The result is that HE is disrespecting himself and me. He could simplify the process by internalizing the expectations HE HAS for our relationship and then simply living them and claiming them.

Example:
"Can you spend the night?" being answered with "LR wouldn't agree to that" complicates his life. He could answer truthfully with, "my family is my top priority, and those responsibilities make that impossible." That would answer the question point blank. I've done it-and it works.

She tries to kiss him the first time they meet-"I'm sorry, I find you very attractive, but I'm not comfortable with kissing yet."

Being upfront and openly honest and proactive in keeping his family involved when he's dating.
It's not hard, I've done it since I was 16. I never went on a "first date" one on one. I ALWAYS invited them to a family or group function that was "kid friendly" and included my daughter.
BECAUSE-then I immediately weeded out all of the people who weren't up to sharing me with my ALREADY EXISTING responsibility (daughter). If they made it through hanging out with the group, and they were friendly with her, they might make it to a one on one date eventually.

Dating one on one and privately from the get go creates complications, because it doesn't weed out the people who are looking for the one on one or single life experiences.
By keeping my dating online with my reality, I simplify the process of finding people who ACTUALLY fit with my REAL life. People who are actually able to understand the limitations that come with my current responsibilities. People who aren't expecting what I can't offer.

IF on the other hand I choose to schedule one night a week to go date someone without inclusivity-I limit myself significantly in regards to how involved in my real life they can be.

It's all about choices.

Maca's issue is that he won't make the choice. He wants someone and he wants them RIGHT NOW. So he grabs at anything that so much as looks at him twice. THEN he "puts his best foot forward" as he says, which is actually, putting his "single" foot forward, trying to woo them with expensive flowers, romance and one on one attention.
That's great, but he isn't willing to give up what he has at home-and he can't keep this AND be gone more than one night a week. SOOOOOOOOOOOO-when they get "hooked" and want more-he's screwed, because he can't give it.
If he chose to put his "married and willing to share" foot forward, they could see him every damn day of the week-WITH THE REST OF US TOGETHER and still have that one night all to themselves.
 
Actually Nyc-I wasn't being defensive. :)

I'm taking the thoughts and processing them fully-because I really think if I do, it will help me be more clear cut in my real life and maybe help me to streamline the things I can. :)


Yes-she's spoiled and that part I think has a lot to do with age.

Ironically-I was like that too-at the same age. :) She and I have a lot in common if you compare her to when I was her same age. :)

That's the sad part-is that I could see it working out for them-if they both backed off and gave her a little time to learn about the real world. Experience is key. She grew up in a very very very small community-and frankly-this isn't a large one! LOL! So her worldly experience is limited. Her boyfriend is her first love. I mean really, she's young. She'll learn a lot over time.

Maca needs to get a grip on his competitiveness. It's screwing him over more than anyone else. I see it-but how do you help? Heck if I KNOW! :)

I write on here, vent my frustration, read everyone's thoughts, re-think my thinking and write it again. In the process I've learned SO SO SO SO much about myself, about communication, about life, about relationships.
*head shake* I've just learned so much. But, he seems to be stuck on that one thing. So focused on his fear of being alone that he can't even see that he's NOT.
 
Oh okay. I think I understand a little better.

You're saying you wouldn't go through the whole boundary list with Boundary-Stomping New Girl. But you want to get together to discuss certain "boundaries, time constraints, expectations." So what would be put on the table then? :confused:
 
With her in particular
  • because of the history (they broke boundaries and she got all bent out of shape over my not being enough of a "hostess" while she was here);
  • She claims to want to spend time with the whole family

I said that I needed her to understand that
A) as "just friends" (which is what they supposedly are) kissing and sex are off limits.
[they were making out in our kitchen in front of our guests and children]

B)I am not a hostess. I'm not going to be but it's not a personal slight against HER-I don't do those things for ANYONE.

C)if she wants to participate in our family she can't continue talking smack about me [that is addressed in this thread:http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28151]

Really-that's it.

HE may have other things HE wants to address with her. All I wanted was for her to understand that talking smack about me isn't going to be acceptable if she wants our families to socialize together, I'm not going to cater to her personally while she's in my home, her definition of friends [which she stated to me specifically] is fine for OTHER friends of hers, but kissing and making out isn't something we do with friends.

She has no idea how simple it could be. Because she's afraid to even chance having a conversation with me.
 
What I wrote to "her"-to clarify

After 7 months of "avoidy"-in response to his increased frustration over wanting to have her participate in family functions, which he claims was based upon her continued requests to; I wrote the following email. I had to send it to him-because I don't have contact info for her. He forwarded it to her after reading it. At that point he felt it was fine. AFTER she read it, she flipped out and then he decided I was being unreasonable.



"I'm going to try to cut to the chase and keep this short and succinct.
That's not my forte-so if there is anything that you need me to
elaborate on-feel free to ask.

I asked you to stop contacting me for one very specific reason. I
found it offensive and overstepping your bounds to suggest to me that
the "real" Maca is the person you understood Maca to be versus who I
understand him to be.

I don't hate you. Nor do I believe you are a bad person, a trouble
maker, etc.I do think it would be a good idea going forward, for you
to understand that the two of you have stepped on my toes. Earning
trust takes time and effort. Earning trust after having caused someone
harm requires more time and effort. I am not a vindictive or possessive
person. However, I do have very high standards and expectations
regarding who I open up and offer my own friendship to.

I am hurt by derogatory things you said about me. I understand that
you based your statements on what you knew from the things Maca said.
That means a large part of the responsibility lays on his shoulders,
for considering what he says, what he does not say and how the
combination affects people's perceptions of who he's talking about.
However, they were still untrue assessments of who I am as a person
and it hurts me to have such things said of me.

I believe that many of the issues which arose between Maca and I at
the time you two started meeting in person have been dealt with in a
manner that should alleviate further conflict. I think he and I are
fairly clear between one another about what our expectations are with
each other regarding other friends and lovers.

I don't have any idea if you are clear on what my expectations are
regarding how I expect to be treated by Maca friends/lovers. There
seems to be two schools of thought on the topic. One is that it is his
responsibility to ensure that you are. The other is that I need to
clearly communicate my expectations to you.
I tend to be of the second school of thought. Maca tends towards the
first. As this is his attempt at building an outside friendship with
potential for more, I am willing to go with his tendencies unless
asked by you or him to clarify."
 
My expectations for metamours treatment of me

Regarding the paragraph regarding her not knowing how I expect to be treated by metamours/friends etc:

respect our boundaries
communicate directly to me on issues regarding me
treat my children with kindness and respect
never talk bad about myself, Chris or Mark in front of our children
respect my personal space
treat me kindly
not talk negatively about me behind my back
consider the consequences of their actions upon me
consider the consequences of their actions on Mark & I’s relationship
consider the consequences of their words upon me
consider the consequences of their words upon Mark & I’s relationship
consider the consequences of their actions on Chris
consider the consequences of their actions on our children
consider the consequences of their words on Chris
consider the consequences of their words on our children
NOT discipline my children
NOT undermine my, Chris’s or Mark’s authority with our children
NOT attempt to get in the middle of any of my other relationships
NOT attempt to undermine any of my other relationships
NOT treat me or my relationships with disdain
Be understanding of the time restraints we have for socializing


It seems obvious to me-I wouldn't normally write it out in a list like that. But-I did, in order to clarify for myself what it was that was pissing me off with the way she treated me.

To clarify-I end relationships with people who mistreat my SO's. I have terminated contact with my father and stepmother and with several close friends.
This has been a very non-negotiable agreement for Maca, GG and I for the duration of our relationships.
We have no contact with Maca's mother and GG's parents either. Because they tried to play favorite's games with our children.

So, to me-this isn't something that needs to be clearly spelled out in this format-in choosing who I socialize with, I choose people who meet the expectations. If they fail to-they get a one time warning.

In this case, she has already stomped on my toes in this arena, so this WOULD BE her warning.
But, she doesn't want the warning.
Which is fine-
in my book-if you don't want it -GO AWAY.

But, you aren't going to be coming closer to me otherwise.

**I never told Maca he couldn't retain a relationship with her. I simply refuse to have anything to do with her or to allow our children to have anything to do with her as long as she refuses to address these issues**
 
Bwuh? What part of what you wrote to her could he possibly point to and say "this is unreasonable"?
 
She felt I was judging her as unworthy of me in that letter. She had a fit and he came back repeating it. I haven't gotten that clarified because immediately after, I took Galagirls oft-made advice on here and said that if she had any issue with me, she needed to bring it TO ME. No more going through him.
 
So yeah... I have been to the poly board once in about a year or more. I'm sure most of the people on here now likely have no idea who I am or forgot about me if they ever knew in the first place. No matter, the short version is I'm friends w/LR, Maca, GG and the rest of the peas in their pod. I've been watching all of this from the sidelines for the most part but after BSNG (Boundary-Stomping New Girl) *giggling* announced their boundaries were "too complicated" to discuss, I felt compelled to post this on LR's main blog:

I think the issues go far deeper than just one person’s self-centered lack of interest in putting time and energy into a relationship she doesn’t deem worthy of the effort.

Boundaries in any relationship are more than just a set of rules to be jumped through like hoops. When a monogamous couple makes a commitment to one another, they establish compatibility by discussing their values, expectations, needs, goals etc. If they decide to commit to the relationship long-term, they exchange vows as well which are intended to symbolize the covenant and “contract” of sorts between the couple.

In a poly relationship, those values, expectations, needs, and goals have to be discussed between EVERYONE involved with the dynamic in order for this mutual compatibility to be established. Anyone who doesn’t grasp this concept, or isn’t willing to put in the extra effort it takes to accomplish this basic foundation of ANY relationship, has no business being involved in a poly dynamic. Particularly when the person in question claims to be experienced in “poly” relationships.

It’s my impression that she actually has NO experience in polyamorous relationships. There is no question she has experience in OPEN relationships. According to her own accounts, her spouse is OK with her seeing whomever she wishes, but her boyfriend is NOT. Despite this, she actively pursues other relationships which has resulted in at least one physical altercation. This communicates to me that what she actually desires is to have a relationship WITHOUT boundaries of any kind. She can’t be bothered to sit down and go over “complicated” lists of rules and boundaries, not because she doesn’t value this potential relationship, but because she doesn’t value rules and boundaries PERIOD.

She’s already demonstrated she does not respect her current SO’s boundaries and they are less important to her than her desire to be able to do what she wants. Furthermore, she’s demonstrated it’s not important to her to learn what the boundaries/rules are in Maca’s dynamic. She has learned from Maca that he broke his own rules and violated his covenant with LR. The reason this wasn’t significant to her is because she doesn’t value rules and boundaries, not because she values the relationship with Maca. The reason she wants him (and LR) to make exceptions to the covenant they made with each other on her behalf is not because she thinks THEIR rules shouldn’t apply to her. It’s because she thinks rules shouldn’t apply to her PERIOD.

Personally, if I were in LR's shoes my terms for BSNG and Maca pursuing a relationship of any nature from this point forward would be very simple. There would be only one requirement: ABOLISH YOUR ENTIRE BOUNDARY LIST. If he and she wish to pursue a relationship without boundaries or rules, then that goes both ways. He needs to decide exactly how important rules and boundaries are to HIM.

The reason behind my statement is simple. It's unreasonable and unfair to expect other people to know when it's ok to toss the rules out the window and when it's not. If the rules are arbitrary depending on who they're applied to, then the rules are pointless and you may as well not have any.

Furthermore, I'm well aware that Maca & LR sit down yearly and made adjustments to their boundary list. As many of you noted, their boundaries are very well defined, extremely detailed and considerably limit the relationship between LR and GG. Guess who is missing from this annual negotiation of boundaries that govern and define his rights within his family and his primary and ONLY partner? GG. He has absolutely ZERO right to give input to the rules that he's expected to follow in explicit detail, despite having put in YEARS of work and effort within that family and poly relationship. He's not even poly!!! But this Boundary Stomping New Girl comes sauntering into the picture and the rules are supposed to bend for her because they're "unreasonable and complicated?"

Tough. Seriously... too f@!#%$ bad!! How many hours and hours have all of you put into being on this message board, trying to learn what you can from each other in the interest of making things work within your poly situation? You're here now, following LR & Maca's situation, evaluating their boundary rules, offering advice and considering how to apply some of what you've learned to your own relationships. Yet, she finds it "too complicated" just to sit down and let someone explain all this to her... for her own benefit. If you don't want to play by the rules, you get sent to the penalty box. Continue not to play by the rules, you get ejected from the game. That's simple reality.

I won't pretend to know all that much about poly, but one thing I DO know about making it work is this: everyone involved in the dynamic MUST be capable and WILLING to ensure that ALL the other people connected to the dynamic are getting their primary needs met to the greatest extent possible. If any single person in the relationship is hyperfocused on there OWN needs to the detriment of anyone else involved, and they refuse to re-direct their focus outward, it's only a matter of time until the whole thing implodes.

Maca's actions and attitude regarding this entire situation have been so clearly self-centered that it shocks me he can't see that THAT is what prevents him from finding a long-term secondary partner. The best advice anyone could have ever offered to him was given to him years ago by his & LR's son: "Dad... get over yourself."
 
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Thanks for this comment from the sidelines. Most of your points regarding the gf are exactly what came to (my) mind when reading about LR's situation and problems with her.

What I find most disturbing is the love-hate element I found whenever LR told us about Maca. I discussed this with my partner today and he said what I was thinking: "Did Maca ever overcome any of the negative things that happened in their marriage and with the cheating incident? If they got passed it and decided that this was cleared and over, some of his actions simply don't match that fact/agreement."

I really hope that you will be able to solve this mess LR and that some peace will come out of it finally and back into your homelife. Very sad to read about so many negative developments :(
 
Excellent observation Phy, and an extremely valid question. I think the unresolved negative events in their marriage absolutely play into the issues that are impacting them now. All three of them are acutely aware of it and with the awareness come the responsibility to take action to address the issue rather than holding on to the resentment like a worn out security blanket. Furthermore, some of the basis for Maca's negativity and the love/hate dynamic goes further back than his marriage to LR. He's aware of the impact of these unresolved past events too. He knows the steps necessary for moving towards improving his relationship(s) in general. But knowing the path we need to take is not the same as standing up and walking it.
 
Phy-
He SAYS repeatedly that he's dealt with it.
We're WELL aware that this is untrue.
The crux of the issue is that its impossible to MAKE someone deal with their shit.

So, it keep coming up, like the Garth Brooks song-We Bury the Hatchet.

Every time his world crumbles emotionally-he lashes back out at GG and I.

This time, it was 7 months of peace.


He says the primary issue is simply that he resents the 'inequality' that I have someone and he does not.

I could write for hours on the topic and get no where. He isn't interested in discovering how much more attractive he would be LONG TERM to others if he were to simply STOP.
Ironically, what she didn't say, is Midnight Sun was one of those people who was interested in him. But, she saw through the game more quickly, because she IS friends with EVERYONE in the family. So she was here watching the fallout and knows where the "volcanic ash" is REALLY originating.

I told GG last night, it's astonishing to me that I can run workshops helping people grasp basic tenets and steps in creating healthy polydynamics; but my own husband refuses to even consider doing them.
 
GG's needs/rights

I will add,
GG doesn't participate (any more) in the boundary discussions with Maca because he see's it as a waste of his time.

His boundaries and needs aren't of importance to Maca and he knows it.

But, he also knows that they are to me. He and I talk and we go over what is or isn't working for us and I keep those things in mind in terms of what MY needs are when going over boundaries with Maca.

Thus, the boundaries that exist do meet GG and I's needs. They could be much more ingratiating to the depth of our relationship. But, the bottom line is, we don't either one struggle with the insecurities and fears that Maca does. But, we were part of the creation of those insecurities and we are both willing to make allowances to our freedoms as recompense.

The STI rules and the limits on what level of commitment is necessary for family involvement are actually both boundaries that I have included on GG's behalf. Also, the drug use is on GG's behalf.
 
Maca-abandonment and insecurity

I forget sometimes that it's been over 2 years since Maca wrote here.

But, yes there is a long history of abandonment and abuse in his past.
His insecurities originate with the abandonment by his mother and they have been increased with every woman who has entered and exited his life. To include every woman he's dated in our poly dynamic.

Those abandonment issues and fears were compounded by my affair.

But, he has to choose to get help for that. I can't make him and I can't help him.
 
Sigh. I am sorry you are enduring this.

Purple mine.

But, the bottom line is, we don't either one struggle with the insecurities and fears that Maca does. But, we were part of the creation of those insecurities (No. His insecure is HIS feeling. You helped create the old situation making of the cheating start affair. Not his insecure.) and we are both willing to make allowances to our freedoms as recompense. (in the new situation making of being in trio in polyship... even at the expense of the new situation ever getting to fly straight?)

Have you done enough time served yet? When does "The needs of the many" in the polyship outweigh "the needs of the one" take effect? The need of the polyship to fly straight in harmony? Versus individual needs?

  • Maca's need to not make waves and need to not do personal growth work and not remove himself from the polyship for his own best health interest. He clearly wants to be more monoshipping and is under strain.
  • GG's need to not make waves and need to not deal in boundary patrol and perimeter walks and not deal in removing the polyship from Maca. Prob under strain.
  • LR's need to not makes waves and need to be the fix it all lady and not deal in removing the polyship from Maca. Def under strain.

It's like nobody wanted to make the waves before and here we are again. Nobody wanting to make waves now. Everyone wants to deal with their own need, but ignores their duty to serve the needs of the greater polyship they created. So it can fly well and fly straight.

Everyone endures a crooked polyship and polyship nausea because... nobody wants to reach out for personal harmony? Polyship harmony? Be free of strain? Baffling. :confused: Y'all sound depressed. Everyone been to check ups? :(

If this REALLY were a spaceship you all are crew members on... if it was going around flying in squiggles in the air... Ground Control would signal you and go "WTF crew!? Everyone ok? Is the ship broken? Do you need to land for medic/repairs? Is anyone at the controls? The mission is to go where you have not gone before in harmonious polyshipping trio -- not keep on squigglin' around here all the time in same squigglefest endangering yourselves, the ship, and others if you crash. How can we help you solve the prob? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? "

Thing is, in polyshipping you ARE your own Ground Control. It becomes the greatest balancing act ever -- my needs, their needs, the great polyship needs... spinning many plates at once.

You are in a Time of Discernment for yourself if you are considering leaving (when?) or staying (for how long before next assessment? Or for final landing?) You have to make choices about what sustains your own health and well being.

And that's all we can ever do. Sigh. We cannot choose how we feel. We just feel it. We can only control our own behavior, and choose what the next behavior will be in response to our current feeling.

We choose who to be in relationship with or not and how. It is hard. I do not know what you guys want to pick for yourselves next. But my heart goes out to you all because you struggle so now. :(

Hang in there. But do choose. Even not choosing is a choice. Time does have a habit of solving things all on its own.

But then your choice on the table is "Do I have the Time to lose to solve this problem with the option of "choosing not to choose?" Is this the best way to spend the time of my life?"

We are always choosing and not choosing. Life Chess. Play well.

Let the board know what kind of specific support you are needing at this time if you know it. I'm willing to help give support. I cannot choose things for you. That I wouldn't be willing to do even if I could. Not my chess game to play. :eek:

So I'll just give the general support of the ministry of presence since I do not know your specific support needs:

  • Aye. My heart goes out to you. I cannot change a thing. I can only choose to dwell in your pain, if even for a moment, to write you a note you can see. And take on a bit of your burden so your load becomes a bit lighter. At least enough so you know you are not suffering alone and unseen. *hug*
  • Aye. I see you struggle in a Time of Suckage. I see your suffering. It does indeed suck.
  • I see you, though your inner light right now burns dim and not the brightest LR light it could be.

I do still see you.

I see you. Shine on! :eek:

Namaste.
GalaGirl
 
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I forget sometimes that it's been over 2 years since Maca wrote here.

It hasn't been that long. I've been a member for about two years and he participated fairly regularly when I joined. I recall the last time Maca posting here was around the time he moved out and got a place in town temporarily. Then you disappeared for a while to work on shit between you. I was glad to see you back, as it seemed you two had resolved alot, he'd moved back home, and you were happy.

I suspect Maca operates a lot out of fear of success, as well as his other issues. Nothing can be too great for too long, for him it seems. You stay strong. I do like MidnightSun's suggestion that if he wants to throw out rules for this chick, you can throw out rules, too -- but I remember you saying that before, as well. Hate to say this, but maybe it is just time to walk away for a while.
 
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