Nice little trainwreck so far

sohuman

New member
So being poly - for just a few weeks - has been incredibly time consuming and stressful because I go into things with good intentions (well, the intention to love and be honest about it) and then these situations I create come back to bite everyone involved.

I am female, married over 10 years to a wonderful guy (who is about to sign up for an identity here and read everything in the forums... he'll say he's my partner). I'm mostly straight but a bit bi-curious. The crack that let the light in was me having an intense emotional affair involving largely unrequited love and severe limerence a few months ago and being a mess (I told this dude I wanted to have a baby with him, wtf was I thinking?), thinking there must be something wrong with my marriage, thinking I must need to get a divorce - leanings of serial monogamy, trying to do the right thing, even though divorce would have been a horrible decision because my husband and I get along really well, have a great sex life, pretty good conflict resolution skills, and tons of positive affect... After realizing that divorce was one the stupidest ideas I've ever had, I realized that I have always been poly my whole life, that none of what I had done or felt had detracted from how I feel about my husband, in fact if anything it had all made me love him more.

I then came out to my husband as poly and my heart opened in a way almost similar to when I was first a mom. A couple days later I came clean about cheating for years. I refused to rationalize it anymore. He wants to stay with me but he doesn't want to let me do what I want to do which is be in a mfm romantic vee and have my husband feel free to pursue relationships, casual sex, or mff dalliances, help him fulfill his fantasies or control my jealousy if I'm not present (or am present). In short, find out who/what he is if not mono, but he's kind of obsessed with revenge or fairness and I keep telling him that no matter how many women he has sex with, he will still feel jealousy for me, but go ahead and see for yourself, I tell him. There is no "evening the score". I still feel like I have a right to set my own boundaries but there are very few things I feel really uncomfortable with as long as everyone is being respectful of each other and safe - a tall order in and of itself.

I hate hurting other people, but the way I pursue my emotional needs seems reckless. I am an NRE crackhead and it's not funny even though I joke about it. But to continue the metaphor, I feel like I'm hitting old ladies in the park and taking their purses, unwrapping the sweet sweet hard candy of NRE inside with delight while the actual human beings lay on the sidewalk suffering traumatic brain injury. I feel like the vampires in Interview with a Vampire - when I can't get humans to drain of thick heady NRE I'll desperately slay poodles and then feel bad about myself for being such a loser of a vampire, reduced to poodles.

I know what NRE is - it is when you have a few scraps of information about someone's good qualities while they're putting their best foot forward, and you enthusiastically fill in all the gaps with cupcakes and rainbows. I know not to make any decisions during NRE, I know for a fact that it changes nothing about how I feel about my cherished husband and our awesome ORE, and yet I am still vulnerable to NRE... vulnerable - hell I am seeking it out. I'm hunting it down and then squealing with ecstasy while it smites me and everyone around me. Then I get up, look around at what I've done, and tsk tsk tsk.

Recently we answered an ad for a couple to be friends with a couple and what do you think happened. I got all involved emotionally with the guy and it was super intense sexually, chatting, exchanging photos, videos, compliments, sweet nasty sex talk, even though we never met in person, and my husband was there every step of the way. Well it turns out that this guy and his wife are swingers and he said he developed feelings for me, and that's what I wanted him to do, I helped make it happen, actively. Well his wife was not happy about it but he said they'll be ok. My husband got on chat and apologized for the role he played in letting me make the emotional connection happen. The two of them had a really good discussion where my husband laid out his boundaries. I am leaving the swinger guy alone now so he and his wife can work it out but I miss him like crazy today and I didn't even know him, all I knew is that he is a good, sweet, and incredibly kind person (those are real attributes of him, it's just that I don't know what his flaws are). At least I am not contacting him to let him know how much I miss him and am thinking of him.

In brief, I am at this moment a ridiculous and terrifying poly creature of the darkness. It's lame to even talk about my pain when I've caused others so much, but I truly feel like parts of me have been lost in each of these relationships behind me now, even though I have healed and resolved my feelings beyond a shadow of doubt. I learned from each one, and it was all worth it, bla bla bla, personal growth, but right now I feel like it's not the greatest thing in the world to be a poly person. The wreckage and the damage... oh the humanity. My husband is kind of a saint for going through it all with me.

Sorry for the novel. Taking a breath and stepping back, it's really not as dramatic as all that, everyone's going to be fine, it's just kind of a pain in the ass to deal with it all and I hope it helps you to know my silly stories. If you made it through, good on ya. Thank you all for sharing your stories, this forum has helped us so much and will continue to.
 
A most sincere congratulations to you, my dear. By the sound of things, you are discovering the realities of this delicious path and keeping your wits about you.

Know thyself? Check.
Know thy husband? Check.
Communicate? Check.
Communicate some more? Check.
Proceed with caution and empathy? Double check.

For people who survive trainwrecks, everyday is a blessing.

Compassion is essential medicine and it seems as though you have it in spades. Cultivate more and more. For yourself. For your husband. For everyone around you. It's the only way.

I look forward to virtually meeting your husband. I have a feeling he and I have a lot in common.

And thanks for sharing your story.
 
Thank you Catfish, your words of encouragement came at just the right moment. My husband has been harboring major resentment and finally expressed all his pain to me last night, really expressed it. I am exhausted and we have both been crying nonstop. MAJOR progress though. He was asking me for the very thing you honed in on: more compassion.

Compassion is my goal but I am still making mistakes, committing acts lacking in compassion - he has agreed to let me know when I do that, or when the only thing lacking in compassion is the pace at which I am going. He has also agreed not to agree to things just to make me happy, because that will lead to resentment later. My knee-jerk initial reaction to his intense pain and anger was to agree to give him monogamy for as long as he wants it (I didn't say that, I was just listening and thinking), but then I realized that the order of things needs to be: 1) person 1 asks for what they want/need, 2) person 2 processes it and thinks about it wrt what they want/need/are capable of, and 3) more discussion and potential compromise. In agreeing at step 1, you might get awarded a shiny "what a generous person you are" lapel pin but that will come back to stick you in the form of resentment if you're truly not all right with/capable of giving or allowing the thing in question.

Fully internalizing compassion and then making behavior choices consistent with it is a process, and I think it requires layers of paint and bears more repetition and discussion than either of us expected...

It's like the gates of communication are finally open after years of using only sex, humor, and built-up positive affect to heal distance between us. Amazing how long those things worked, but +communication is more, better. Harder and more exhausting, but better.

Thanks again. I reckon he'll appear here shortly. :)

I love these two quotes from the 1975 film Love and Death:

Sonja: He kissed me.
Boris: Any place I should know about?
Sonja: He warmed the cockles of my heart.
Boris: That's just great. Nothing like hot cockles.


Sonja: To love is to suffer. To avoid suffering one must not love. But then one suffers from not loving. Therefore, to love is to suffer; not to love is to suffer; to suffer is to suffer. To be happy is to love. To be happy, then, is to suffer, but suffering makes one unhappy. Therefore, to be unhappy, one must love or love to suffer or suffer from too much happiness. I hope you're getting this down.
 
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I want to post more on this thread later but in the meantime I wish it said something about being addicted to NRE in the subject title, because I think that is so common in poly people. Actually addicted, or just totally swept away by it from time to time.
 
Sorry - you're right, it wasn't a very informative title. I couldn't go in and edit it though because the 12 hours have passed - I will add some tags and put NRE in the tags.
 
Hi! I am the husband of sohuman.
I have attitude (bad attitude even) just about everything so far. Anyway... I'm here, let's see where this goes.
 
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[edited to get rid of me flaming him back for his initial flame of the entire poly lifestyle]

Hi Baby, I'm glad you're here and I love you.
 
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Might I suggest doing a tag search on here for "foundations" and "lessons" there are some great threads that indicate ideas on how to approach poly in a healthy way. Compassion is important for sure, as is honest open communication, respect for others and your self, and compassions cousin if you will, consideration. All can be found in great details if you look around a bit.

If you intend to debate I suggest reading around a bit too. You have said in your post, before editing that you "have some major disagreements on key aspects of what "polyamory" really is. I will probably at some point criticize and debate every argument used to justify it as somehow more evolved, or healthier a lifestyle choice." ...Most off us have debated it all pretty much and while a good debate is awesome, I am not big on repeating myself when there are threads already that address the issues. Please feel free to add questions or comments where ever you see fit on the threads you find. Thanks. :)

I hear that this is all painful and difficult. Your whole worlds have been turned up side down it seems. I would suggest slowing down, taking a breath and keep commuinicating. You seem to be on the right track though... With some boundary negotiation and setting, things will settle with time and patience I should think.
 
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Hello Conchordian. Welcome to the forum. Let me start, as my good friend Charlie is fond of, by saying that at anytime I could be full of shit. That said, I'm sure you and I are facing some very similar challenges. If you need an ear, feel free to PM me.

This was me in '09.

This was me last November.

This is me today.

This journey is a tough one, but just by virtue of the fact that you are here, your heart is in the right place. Best of luck to you.
 
Catfish: Thank you! I'm glad to be here, and I will for sure read the links you sent me. I also love your friend's saying, and will start using it as soon as humanly possible.
 
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Hi! I am the husband of sohuman.
I have attitude (bad attitude even) just about everything so far. I am really argumentative, and have some major disagreements on key aspects of what "polyamory" really is. I will probably at some point criticize and debate every argument used to justify it as somehow more evolved, or healthier a lifestyle choice. Anyway... I'm here, let's see where this goes.

I doubt most people here would get all holier-than-thou and say that poly is more evolved or healthy than anything else. You both have to figure out what's healthy for you. You might hear that it's more challenging, though. Keep reading and asking questions. It's okay that you're angry, your feelings are your feelings.

Welcome!
 
redpepper:
You ruined my introduction. Are you really trying to stifle me before I've even done anything reprehensible? Or assuming I will for sure, at some point do something reprehensible? The assumption that I wouldn't read other debates or use the forum appropriately also does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Apologize immediately!

Are you serious about this? You come on here, saying that you disagree with everything that has anything to do with polyamory and then get offended that someone said that maybe you should read around a little before starting a debate? How is that in the least bit offensive? Really, coming on here and saying that you are planning on criticizing every point we use to "justify" our choices is much more offensive then a gentle suggestion to read around and see if your points have been covered before.

edited to add: the reason I put justify in quotes is that it reads very much, to me, that you feel that this is a bad lifestyle choice for anyone and that anything we say in support of it is just an excuse used to refuse to take responsibility for our own bad actions. While I would totally agree with the idea that not everyone who claims to practice polyamory does so in an open, ethical way, there are plenty of people who do, balancing our lives so that none of our loved ones get hurt. To say that all of us are wrong and "bad" for practicing it is extremely offensive, at the very least to me.
 
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Hi! I am the husband of sohuman.
I have attitude (bad attitude even) just about everything so far. I am really argumentative, and have some major disagreements on key aspects of what "polyamory" really is. I will probably at some point criticize and debate every argument used to justify it as somehow more evolved, or healthier a lifestyle choice. Anyway... I'm here, let's see where this goes.

I have to admit, I love a lil debate. I am always curious to see how fresh eyes see the poly world ... I would suggest putting it into the lifestyles section, then the integrity of your posts/blog may be left to their own devices.

I think you will find there are those of us in poly who look at poly with critical eyes. There is a whole range of "polyness"...

So weclome
 
. . . a gentle suggestion to read around and see if your points have been covered before.

A gentle suggestion? I know that RP didn't mean it this way, but it did come off somewhat like, "I'm tired of debating shit, so shut up and read!" And just because someone comes here and says they want to debate and challenge stuff (which happens every day here without necessarily announcing it first), no one is obligated to participate. Not every thread needs everyone's input. If you don't want a debate, don't post. I personally found Conchordian's post rather moving, since he was being honest with where he's at. I don't see how scolding him helps.

Sorry for the tangent. Now back to the topic...
 
A gentle suggestion? I know that RP didn't mean it this way, but it did come off somewhat like, "I'm tired of debating shit, so shut up and read!"

RP was just offering advice on where to look with specific tags to use when searching. There is a lot of info out there and she was trying to give him topic specific places to look. Conchordian is being extremely defensive and a bit antagonistic, but he did warn everyone this would be the case.

@Conchordian: RP creates some of the tags and is extremely knowledgable about where to find specific information. There are a lot of new people who come to this board and refuse to read what others have posted.
 
redpepper:
You ruined my introduction. Are you really trying to stifle me before I've even done anything reprehensible? Or assuming I will for sure, at some point do something reprehensible? The assumption that I wouldn't read other debates or use the forum appropriately also does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Apologize immediately!
I am in no way apologetic for my suggestion, the thought is rather confusing actually.

What do I need to apologize about? I was trying to help. We often have peope arrive on this door step who don't know to look around and read first. If you have already read or are, then great, you're ahead of the game and I would think have lots of comments and thoughts already.

I am wondering if you are angry? Frustrated? Ready to lash out on anyone that is poly because they are to blame? Is this so? If so, that's fine, I will seperate myself from that as it is not mine to own. Please, go ahead and tell us how you feel. It might mean you can move forward with th issues at hand.
 
Just for the record NYCindie, I am tired. I get sick of listening to myself. No reflection on the writer. Just the cut and paste I say so often.

The "shut up and read" part? meh, not so much. I have no investment in people reading or not. If they repeat stuff over and over sometimes new stuff comes up and I give everything a similar tag to indicate where to find it. I do like a good debate though... As I said.

I reckon my "I" statement indicated an attitude that didn't exsist for me. Welllll, that happens. Text is different than reality.

This is all irrelevant though. This is about the OP and her man... Please, continue.
 
I am in no way apologetic for my suggestion, the thought is rather confusing actually.

What do I need to apologize about? I was trying to help. We often have peope arrive on this door step who don't know to look around and read first. If you have already read or are, then great, you're ahead of the game and I would think have lots of comments and thoughts already.

I am wondering if you are angry? Frustrated? Ready to lash out on anyone that is poly because they are to blame? Is this so? If so, that's fine, I will seperate myself from that as it is not mine to own. Please, go ahead and tell us how you feel. It might mean you can move forward with th issues at hand.
Now I sound fucking condescending. Grrreeeeeeat. I assure you I am not intending to. This is not meant to be passive aggressive. I'm seriously wondering what is going on for you. So far we haven't heard much.
 
Guys: I am so sorry. He was not being serious and redpepper you are absolutely right that his sarcasm had nothing to do with you and I didn't think your reply was condescending. He will probably be amazed that you didn't see it was completely sarcastic - but so many cues are absent to know that. Both he and I have had horrible experiences on unmoderated internet forums before - no joke, his consists of arguing about religion with other youtube users, and having people give him death threats. Mine consists of even more outrageous insanity (yes, more than death threats, I shit you not), but I can't even go into it. Suffice it to say that moderation makes a HUGE difference. This space is like no other. I am in awe of the care that the moderators put into making the forum a good space.

I started out the same way he did, by not opening up about myself and starting a debate about something I hadn't read about (converting non-polys to get dates) - but by reading and reading, and seeing how active the mods are, I realized this is a totally different group of people and space. I decided to do something I never thought or intended I would do, which was open up. At most I'd thought I'd lurk and learn.

It seemed like a good idea to have my husband make an identity here but the timing was off and he had not yet read anything on here. I told him not to be inflammatory, I told him to read the introduction instructions (which I hadn't before making my first post)... but he's really angry and hurt right now and that shows - we both use humor as a defense mechanism. He does have a negative perception of poly because of having such a hurtful introduction to it. I so wish I could go back in time and have known this about myself and been able to verbalize it years ago - or read book 1 about it. He may move the discussion elsewhere, because the ideas are quite new to him as he is processing them in the context of me being an unethical slut.

In this case I think it has derailed me getting some feedback/thoughts I might have gotten beyond Catfish's post. Anything people have to share or advise after reading our story laid out in sincerity (from only my perspective, of course) will be like gold to me. You can even criticize me, I am ready to hear it and process it.

I had a great advisor who said "you can always make a bad situation worse" - we seem to have a talent for that, but trying to change.

Thank you guys for being so accepting and THANK YOU moderators for what you are doing here. You are human, of course, but you are heroically taking on the complex task of helping others through your decision making and good judgment, and that care and effort is really valuable for the people here. Before finding this forum I was a "poor unfortunate soul".

I told him that when he is ready to open up, you guys are top drawer and will treat him with respect and kindness. He will see that the more he reads and probably open up eventually, if not today.
 
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Sohuman, I can understand the approach if this has been your experience. That sucks! Ya, we make every attempt to be helpful here, rather than inflametory. We are dealing with peoples heart felt, gut wrenching experiences and while sometimes its hard to talk about, its hoped that everyone does their best to empathize and remember our own journey. Not always possible as people get triggered. It happens and usually we are able to move on. Here's hoping that we get to some support for you both now! :D :p
 
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