Safe Sex

Fayerweather

New member
Hi everybody!

I have some questions. I was fluid bonded with both of my partners until this past week. My one bf has another gf and they recently started having sex and she recently started having sex with her second bf. My first bf and I decided (just to be safe) to start using condoms and I've been asking everyone involved about STI status and if they've used protection. It's been weird going from carefree sex with both partners (my other bf isn't dating anyone and my first bf and his gf waited a loooonnnggg time before they started having PIV sex) to using condoms all the time and I'm aware that even condoms aren't all that good at protecting against some STIs.

Also, everyone involved (my two bfs and my one bf's gf) have been tested semi-recently. Can't say the same for my metamore's new guy

What are some of your safe sex practices and communication routines? Any advice on how to approach talking about it. I feel like I'm the most worried out of my W-formation poly family, but maybe because I haven't had a chance to have a heart to heart with my bf's gf for a while and have only been communicating via text messages about this touchy stuff. Having a little transition anxiety and wanted to hear what other poly folks do to decrease the risk of infection and to keep themselves safe.

Thanks
 
It's a definite concern, and one that needs to be addressed with a degree of promptness and clarity. Sometimes it needs to get painfully explicit into what activities require protection and which don't. Examples would be oral and manual sex.

I am going to be picky with you about the terminology you use, though - and that's not just for the sake of being annoying - there's a reason.

There's no such thing as "Safe Sex" - the discussion you are having is about "safeR sex". The distinction is really, really important. Because there is no definitive "if you do that you will be safe, if you don't you will be at risk" out there, then these discussions can't be about absolutes.

Different sexual activities have different amounts of risk. So this discussion comes down to a risk/benefit analysis. Since the risks are never zero, you need to decide what level of risk you are willing to take on in order to do that activity. Different people involved may have different levels of acceptable risk - none are wrong or right, just different. It is important to explore each of them, and arrive at a place that everyone can agree to and abide by.

Also, please discuss what happens when things don't go according to plan. This would include a condom breaking, or "getting carried away by the heat of the moment". Put procedures in place that talk about what happens if this occurs, and make sure everyone knows. This shouldn't be punishment, it should be about practicalities.

As an example of this latter, we have the agreement in place that should a condom break, then any sex between either of those folks and others will be with a condom. Since the incubation period for most of the STIs is 6 months or less, a full range of STI testing will be done after 6 months and then, assuming it is negative, the fluid bonding can resume.

I'm not saying that this is what anybody should do, but it just shows an example of the logic we used.
 
Thanks Ny. I will check that out.

Ciel - Also, thank you very much for your advice. Discomfort with communication is the main problem I am facing. I feel like I am being obsessive and overly worried about all this. To a certain extent, you have to accept some risks and I understand that. I just want us to all get on the same page about what those acceptable risks might be. As it stands now, I haven't had sex with my bf who's other partner just started a sexual relationship with a new man. I feel like we need to have a family meeting about it, but two of us live relatively far away from the other two and I haven't even met the metamore's new bf yet. I'm holding off on sex with my boyfriend until we come to a clear and solid agreement.

Your input is greatly appreciated, and so was your lesson in appropriate terminology. I am a big fan of using the correct words to most succinctly describe nuances whenever possible
 
Discomfort with communication is the main problem I am facing.

That goes away with practice DOING. Just do it.

Speak your truth, state your wants, needs, limits. Get everyone's temperature check and sex ed level.

And if you have not enough info yet? Don't have sex with your direct lovers or make it a rule that ALL sex will be barrier sex -- condoms, dental dams, saran wrap, gloves, whatever it is you feel best with for the practices your engage in most. No fluid bonding anywhere.

The only safe sex is NO SEX.

This is safer sex -- so you think about what safer sex is to you.

One of the sheets at opening up has a list of sex practices -- the checklist one. It is not every sexual practice in the world but it could help move the convo along if you are all looking at the same paper. "What about this? What about that?" type.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

HTH!
GG
 
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We have a table I made up, with STI's along the top and activities with any risk factors along the side. Where they meet it says what protection needs to be used for that combo, be it condoms, gloves, if the activity isn't OK at all risk wise, or if no protection needs to be used for it.

This made us take a really good look at risks and what we were willing to accept risking bringing home to the other. Although it's not everyday dinner talk to say "Hey I can send you our safe sex agreement chart if you would like to know the specifics" it does make it perfectly clear what somebody can or cant expect from us (including knowing what will change if they get an STI on the list that they don't currently have) and they'll also know what risks we will take with other partners. It makes it easier to ask if there's anything not clear for them too.

A bit odd, but I know my husband can't remember all that stuff, and we've changed our mind about some things over the last year, so having a hard copy helps keep track of it, and keeps misunderstandings from happening, as well as that whole "I really like this person so I want to make different rules to apply to them than we discussed" in the heat of the moment. I don't mind the weirdness of it, and I like the idea that any metamours will be able to know what the addition of either of us brings risk wise to the table too.
 
Me too, if you don't mind Anneintherain. (If too much of a pain, no worries!) I would find it a great starting place.
 
Due to it's nature it doesn't copy paste in any useful way, so I believe I've managed to upload it to a magical cloud (ooooh)

I decided to blank a couple of the rows to keep the mystery alive :rolleyes: I was going to blank all but the STI's and activities but, eh wtf. I also understand our agreements on this are much more limiting than a lot of people choose for themselves, but I had a friend lose half of his tongue to oral cancer from HPV so I err on the side of caution.
I left all my overly personal notes at the bottom too.

Two notes:
Adam has HSV2 (with no history of an outbreak), I don't, hence gloves for a couple activities being on there on there for him but not me. His partners are free to accept more risk to them if they like, but that helps ensure it's a talking point where the risks will be discussed.

That's our default "new partner" behavior, after 9 months or so we agreed I don't need to use barriers for oral sex with my other long term relationship now as he's polysaturated and hasn't added any new partners since we started dating. May go back to them if that changes. I'd include that information during a safe sex talk with a new person.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?4bz7ra4alx772uv

Oh I feel like I just let everybody look in my undie drawer!
 
Thankyou! It's fascinating to see what/how other people mitigate risks :)
 
Hmm, a bit overwhelming to see things laid out like this, isn't it? Not a criticism, just seeing a chart like this has me wondering about how one can be cognizant of stuff like this, operate more safely, and yet still feel a sense of spontaneity. Nobody likes to think about shit like disease when they're about to get jiggy with someone, but we must. How to balance, in sex, the seriousness with enjoyment and fun is what I always find frustrating.
 
Nobody likes to think about shit like disease when they're about to get jiggy with someone, but we must. How to balance, in sex, the seriousness with enjoyment and fun is what I always find frustrating.
I think that's why it's vital to talk about it before the foreplay starts, and make sure everyone understand the "rules of combat" before you dive in. That way it's easier for folks to keep those hard limits in the backs of their minds and make sure that they don't go there. Last thing you want when you are in the zone and horny as hell is to be reminded that you are about to break a boundary....
 
Downloaded the chart, Anne. Thanks so much for posting the link! Even if we have our own established boundaries, it's good to get a look at what other people do.
 
Hmm, a bit overwhelming to see things laid out like this, isn't it? Not a criticism, just seeing a chart like this has me wondering about how one can be cognizant of stuff like this, operate more safely, and yet still feel a sense of spontaneity. Nobody likes to think about shit like disease when they're about to get jiggy with someone, but we must. How to balance, in sex, the seriousness with enjoyment and fun is what I always find frustrating.

Well it is...clinical and unsexy, but I have a health care background which factors in. I wouldn't hand it out on the third date or anything, its for me & my husband. I'd just gladly share it with a partner if they wanted to see it,, or their partners were concerned about "can I trust this new person to practice safe sex?" I liken it to one of the kink checklists available that a lot of people use for negotiation. A bdsm relationship of any sort would involve using that to discuss & share interest/disinterests, and what is on and off the table - cuts down on misunderstandings, even if it makes you blush. I didn't actually end up sharing either that or this chart with my boyfriend until we were dating for awhile and he said he'd be interested in seeing them.

Truthfully, my goal isn't to operate from a sense of spontaneity at ALL. Neither my husband or I are "jump into things" sort of people (me ever, he used to be and it usually came with regrets), and even if we were, then we'd still be able to jump into INTERcourse with condoms pretty much after an STI discussion, just not fluid exchange activities. That gives us the chance to have generalized safe sex discussions early on with a partner, and save the deeper discussions/other activities for later. If I were single I'd strike out all the F/F barrier stuff, so I really do consider this a "very "sensible" safe risk limiting safe sex chart for a sexually open couple"

We had much more vague guidelines at first, but my husband's first two girlfriends had two different STI's so we decided that black and white agreements were in order after the frenzied internet searching for facts and statistics stemming from that. He also tends to date women who have 4-5 other partners at a time (including swinging and casual fuck buddies, so that impacted it too, rather mitigate risk than limit who he dates). I also have the added burden of being HSV2- when my husband is +, having a boyfriend who is - and will have to stop having sex with me if I become +, so my activities hinge on trying to reduce my risk as much as possible, cause...I'd sure hate that to happen, I'm kinda fond of the whole sex thing myself.

I've also found knowing just what is/isn't OK within the framework of the chart can keep me from taking risks I might be tempted to otherwise, whether it be OMFG this person is so hot I want..., or OMG I had three drinks and want to %#$@ on the hood of this car here... I'm 100% responsible for what I've agreed to with that chart, so sticking to it keeps me from regretting things that otherwise I might just be stupid enough to do :)
 
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Seeing others' limits is making me think about mine again. I was pretty comfortable with my choices. I don't sexually interact with people who have any communicable STIs. I'm not comfortable with that risk. I would also stop engaging sexually with a partner who had a communicable STI that could not be treated.

I am fluid bonded with my husband and my lover. My H has no other partners. My lover uses condoms with everyone but me (3 women). I use condoms with any other partners for penetration, but don't use barriers for oral or manual sexual contact.

Am I really carrying that much more risk than the rest of you?
 
Am I really carrying that much more risk than the rest of you?

No. I am guessing at least 85% of people (and probably more) with multiple partners just stick to "use condoms with other partners" including most people who posted on this thread.

I also don't think my guidelines on how to approach new partners with unknown risk factors is the same as what is eventually negotiated when relationships actually happen and you have a better handle on how the other people practice poly and safe sex. After being warned by husband's HSV2+ girlfriend about more than one poly male on OKCupid admitting to her they lied to potential partners about having HSV2 because they didn't think it was a big deal, I figured I'd rather mitigate risk than be sorry after the fact.

Other than wanting to avoid HSV2 for the reason I mentioned earlier in the thread (and that's really the only reason, I could care less if I get it, as I'm not immuno supressed) I worry about oral cancer, or girl or boy bits cancer from HPV, but regular dentist and doctor visits help screen that stuff early.
 
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That is sad that they'd lie about it. Seems at odds with the idea that poly people are supposed to be open and honest.

That almost makes me feel safer to have casual sex with men who are cheating on their wives rather than poly. It's illegal to hide the fact that you have an STD and I bet they'd have a hard time explaining a call from Public Health.
 
It's illegal to hide the fact that you have an STD and I bet they'd have a hard time explaining a call from Public Health.

Really, that's illegal in Canada? I wonder if the laws we have in the states that protect one's personal health information, right to privacy, and freedom of speech make it possible for people not to reveal that stuff if they don't want to. I am pretty sure it is not illegal here.
 
It is illegal to engage in sexual activity with someone and lie or fail to disclose a transmittable STI prior to that, yes. At least in Ontario.

The right of your sexual partners to be safe trumps the right to privacy.
 
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