Mom, Where are we going? Crazy dear.

Is Chipmunk just an additional sex partner for Airyn, or are they in love? I wonder because she seems to be a lot of work for him, though not as much as she is for you. Why does he keep her around? I just don't get it at all. She's such a mopey child, must be some darn good sex - but even that doesn't seem worth the trouble she puts you both through if it's just sex or guilt or not knowing what else to do now that he's in the thick of it. Even if he does love her, love isn't enough to make it work. What does he see in her, and why can't he enjoy a relationship with her if she lives with roommates somewhere and sees him less often? From here, it seems like he wants to be in control of where she is and what she does. If I were him, I'd have broken it off and kicked her out long ago.

And it seems like she is just staying because she has a warm bed and doesn't have to make it on her own as long as you two provide for her.
 
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Is Chipmunk just an additional sex partner for Airyn, or are they in love? I wonder because she seems to be a lot of work for him, though not as much as she is for you. Why does he keep her around? I just don't get it at all. She's such a mopey child, must be some darn good sex - but even that doesn't seem worth the trouble she puts you both through if it's just sex or guilt or not knowing what else to do now that he's in the thick of it. Even if he does love her, love isn't enough to make it work. What does he see in her, and why can't he enjoy a relationship with her if she lives with roommates somewhere and sees him less often? From here, it seems like he wants to be in control of where she is and what she does. If I were him, I'd have broken it off and kicked her out long ago.

And it seems like she is just staying because she has a warm bed and doesn't have to make it on her own as long as you two provide for her.

Some of this is obviously true, and some of it is partly true.

They are in love. I don't think that the sex is necessarily all that "great", but that could just be my perception. Personally I prefer a partner who is more actively a participant. Someone who moves, makes sounds, shows that they are enjoying themselves, and that they are enjoying their partner. To me she doesn't seem to be doing that, but then I have not participated in sex with them in months things may have changed.

I think Airyn is dealing with guilt, and a lot of not knowing what to do. He believes that for Chipmunk this relationship survives on daily contact. That she feels second, and less important. This is why she demands so much of his attention when we are all together. He believes that her moving out will amplify this feeling of secondness, will reduce their daily contact to occasional few days a week, and that she'll end it over his inattention and proximity. I point out that most relationship start out with a lot less proximity, and that phone calls, and texts are daily contact options when he's not going to see her face to face that day. I can't fix her lack of social and relationship skills All I can do is tell her the time to grow up is now.

Part of why she is still with us is because she wants to not have to make it on her own. She wants someone else to take care of her so she doesn't have to. She relies on us to do most things for her. This is part of the problem. I'm tired of it. It's time she faces reality. She is living with a married man, and can not have 100% of his attention just because they are sharing the same space at that moment.

*Sigh* I'm not in a good place, angry, then sad, then angry. I really don't see that I am being unreasonable. But maybe it's to much to ask. I don't know. Airyn says he is preparing him self for the end. That he feels he has no control in where this will go from here. That it is all between she and I. Sounds to me like resentment.
 
He believes that her moving out will amplify this feeling of secondness, will reduce their daily contact to occasional few days a week, and that she'll end it over his inattention and proximity. . . .
A few days a week is inattention? I would call it a normal boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. Living together right off the bat is what is odd. Anyway, if she moved out and had to be self-sufficient, and then broke up with Airyn because of that, it would only prove she's just using him for a place to stay. Why would he want to still be involved with someone like that anyway? I question this love of theirs, seriously.

Part of why she is still with us is because she wants to not have to make it on her own. She wants someone else to take care of her so she doesn't have to.
Yeah... she doesn't have a boyfriend. She has a daddy that she fucks in order to avoid the real world.

Sorry for such harsh words.

I really don't see that I am being unreasonable.
LOL, no, honey, being unreasonable is certainly not your downfall! I think it's exactly your reasonableness that makes your blog a bit difficult to read. I think many of us wish you would get angry a little more often. I could never put up with everything you put up with, and I don't know many others who would, either. Hang in there! Maybe Airyn will open his eyes and see what's really going on, without blaming you.
 
Oh sweetie :( I do wish you'd been taking some of the advice you've been getting. I know this is a blog and not a regular thread but I think that the problem is that you aren't putting responsibility in the right place. Emailing that to Chipmunk isn't going to do anything, who a letter like that should've gone to is Airyn. I think the only email that really needed to go to Chipmunk is a "these are the chore and financial agreements that you need to keep up with as a roomate"

Most of this wouldn't be a problem at all if you and Airyn had made appropriate agreements and boundaries between yourself. If you sit down with him and he agrees to things that will make you feel you are getting what you need from him (set date nights where its just you two, staying home at lunch to be with you instead of going off to bring Chipmunk lunch, taking turns holding hands with each of you when you are out, or WHATEVER it is you want) and he upheld his end, there wouldn't be a problem

I don't know if you have the "Opening Up" book, but I really think you two need to sit down and hash out some boundaries today from the ground up, and then I think you both need to stick to them. It just seems like nobody is stopping an imminent explosion.

I think you both made a big mistake not letting her move out when she said she wanted to, and I don't know why you are all still in the situation. I want to reflect something back to you, and ask you to really think about it. This is part of your email to Chipmunk.

Above all:
You are an adult, you are responsible for your actions, for your inaction's, for your communication, for your miscommunication, and lack of communication. You are responsible for owning how you feel, and discussing what you want/need.

-----------------------------------------------
I value people's worth/dignity. It demands respect. In relationship I want

PARTNERS HAVE RIGHT TO:
Clear communication
Expect support from partner
Be nurtured
Get needs met
Responsiveness
Constructive feedback
Constructive conflict resolution

PARTNERS EACH BE RESPONSIBLE FOR:
Know and state needs, wants and limits
Follow thru on promises
Know the math tiers in this config
Your own and your partner's healths: mental, emotional, physical, spiritual
Emergency preparedness
Care for own equipment/stuff
Tell if keeping a confidence can hurt someone/is hurting someone

I see you failing to provide clear communication to Airyn, and him not providing clear communication to Chipmunk, I see you and Airyn failing a lot of the things on those lists. You are trying to fix Chipmunk before you are fixing yourselves, and this is why you are not going to have much luck. I am not sure why you aren't demanding more from your husband and asking for and getting what you need, but until he (and you) shift your focus for being accountable for taking care your relationship with each other, I don't imagine this is going to start going in a positive direction.
 
A few days a week is inattention? I would call it a normal boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. Living together right off the bat is what is odd. Anyway, if she moved out and had to be self-sufficient, and then broke up with Airyn because of that, it would only prove she's just using him for a place to stay. Why would he want to still be involved with someone like that anyway? I question this love of theirs, seriously.

Yeah... she doesn't have a boyfriend. She has a daddy that she fucks in order to avoid the real world.
Sorry for such harsh words.

LOL, no, honey, being unreasonable is certainly not your downfall! I think it's exactly your reasonableness that makes your blog a bit difficult to read. I think many of us wish you would get angry a little more often. I could never put up with everything you put up with, and I don't know many others who would, either. Hang in there! Maybe Airyn will open his eyes and see what's really going on, without blaming you.


Your not being harsh, your stating what I've been seeing, and trying to say to Airyn. I told Airyn once that I'm waiting for him to wakeup and see what's really there. I have felt up till his Mom visted for Halloween that I couldn't say a whole lot about how she treats him, and what I see. I felt that it would be like telling your best friend that you know her boyfriend is cheating on her. Usually you hear how that ends poorly, and the best friend accuse you of trying to get in the middle of her relationship, or of trying to steal her boyfriend. I didn't want to be that person.

But when Airyn's mom had the same complaints, and saw the same things I did. I told Airyn that when two of the important people in his life are seeing, and saying the same things then maybe he should pay attention, listen, and start doing something about it. As you can see that conversation didn't go any where. As I'm the one who is point all these things out to Chipmunk, and telling her to change her tune.

Oh sweetie :( I do wish you'd been taking some of the advice you've been getting. I know this is a blog and not a regular thread but I think that the problem is that you aren't putting responsibility in the right place. Emailing that to Chipmunk isn't going to do anything, who a letter like that should've gone to is Airyn. I think the only email that really needed to go to Chipmunk is a "these are the chore and financial agreements that you need to keep up with as a roomate"

Airyn has heard it all before, none of what was in that email was new to him. He then read what I said, and was in complete agreement. I'll write a seprate post to talk about where things are now. Airyn is with me on every point I was making.

Most of this wouldn't be a problem at all if you and Airyn had made appropriate agreements and boundaries between yourself. If you sit down with him and he agrees to things that will make you feel you are getting what you need from him (set date nights where its just you two, staying home at lunch to be with you instead of going off to bring Chipmunk lunch, taking turns holding hands with each of you when you are out, or WHATEVER it is you want) and he upheld his end, there wouldn't be a problem
We had NO boundaries, or agreements between he and I when we went into this. It was a mistake. The one boundary that I asked for as things moved forward was crossed multiple times. Some one said that after that I gave up making boundaries. Maybe I did. I have started to insist on certain things however, and will have to enforce what I am asking for.

Changing habits, and breaking bad ones is hard, and time consuming. I know I have a lot of work to do. I have told Airyn that he and I need to work on US, and that he also needs to work on himself. No one likes hearing that, so he was resistant at first. Then one day he and I were talking, and he started using terms, and knowledge I had shared with him from these forums. That's when I saw he was willing to learn, and grow from this. It's a long slow crawl, and I can see some progress where he is concerned. Life is difficult, and I can see it getting better.

One way or a other things will change. I have told them both very as clearly as I am able (at this moment) that change HAS to happen in order for this to continue.

I don't know if you have the "Opening Up" book, but I really think you two need to sit down and hash out some boundaries today from the ground up, and then I think you both need to stick to them. It just seems like nobody is stopping an imminent explosion.
I think you both made a big mistake not letting her move out when she said she wanted to, and I don't know why you are all still in the situation. I want to reflect something back to you, and ask you to really think about it. This is part of your email to Chipmunk.

I see you failing to provide clear communication to Airyn, and him not providing clear communication to Chipmunk, I see you and Airyn failing a lot of the things on those lists. You are trying to fix Chipmunk before you are fixing yourselves, and this is why you are not going to have much luck. I am not sure why you aren't demanding more from your husband and asking for and getting what you need, but until he (and you) shift your focus for being accountable for taking care your relationship with each other, I don't imagine this is going to start going in a positive direction.

I have seen that book title in other place on these forums, but do not have a copy of it yet. I did follow a link from GalaGirl that was sadly broken, but had to do with that book. I actually have a list of books that I want to own, read, and learn from that I have heard about via these forums.

You are right about my needing to work on Communication, and Airyn needing to also. I am, he is starting to, and we are. What I am doing with Chipmunk is telling her that she has too also. That she has to start working on these things. I did admit to my needing to work on things also. I was not laying everything down on Chipmunk, or at least I was trying not to.

----------------------------------------
Thank you two. I need to hear these things. It helps keep me in perspective. More to come I'll be sharing shortly how things are currently going.
 
Not happy stuff from yesterday.

Conversation with Airyn Wednesday night after sending the email to Chipmunk, after Airyn had been dealing with Chipmunks stress, and tears.

He and I talked, he was sad, and hurt. Feeling like she was leaving for good, and telling me that he has been trying to detach himself from her for the past few weeks. That he's preparing for her to leave. I told him he was the one being negative. That she can choose to stay, and work on herself, or she can go. I also told him that her going does not have to be the end of THEM.

We talked about some possibilities for her moving out, that he doesn't see her as being able to make the changes, or work at them. That she's not careful of herself, and is too trusting of others. That he worries, and fears for her safety if/when she moves out. Walking home late at night, or getting a ride from someone at work. We talked about how this is how people survive. Learning who they can and can not trust. I pointed out to him that he has been telling her that he is the ONLY one she can trust instead of talking to her, teaching, and showing her how to find peole that can be trusted. It was a leaghty conversation. I eventually started getting angry and told him we needed to talk about something else.

So here's part of our conversation after that.Not all of it, but some of it.

I told Airyn that I wanted to share a memory with him, that I had written a sad email to him, but that I have no intention of sending it, but that I'd like him to read the memory. He was agreeable. And this is what I sent:

When we were younger we broke up for a time. Before you started dating Jenna. You set up a cot for me in your room. I remember watching you sleep, playing with your hair, touching your face. I was so sad, hurt. I felt that you still loved me, but didn't know if you would ever share that love with me again. I was scared. And there was still so much passion between us. I remember most nights you'd pull me into your bed anyway. You would be upset afterwards, and tell me harshly that I'm easy and a habit you can't break and that you want me out. But it was that passion that kept me hopeful.

Today I still enjoy watching you sleep holding you. Stroking your hair, rubbing your back, neck, shoulders. Touching as much of you as I can. That passion though, it's not the same. I'm confused, I know that you still love me, but often I don't feel that passion coming from you any more. It makes me sad, and worried. I want to be happy, and I want you to be happy. Most of the time we aren't happy in this current relationship. We have good times, and good days, but there are more sad moments, and harsh times.


I'm done bending, and contorting to allow this relationship between you and Christina. You told me after I officially ended things with Christina that you may be asking to much of me. That you are hopeful we can make it work for a few months (6 at that time) till we move. I don't feel like there will be much left of ME if things continue in this way.


I told you after the roommate comment that I was tired. Tired of being last on your mind, tired of this relationship, tired of working so hard for small reasonable things. Just Tired of it all.

I want you to be happy, but I also want to be happy myself. I have not been truly happy for far too long, and I'm tired. I need peace, I need love, and contentment. I had that once, and I want it again. I want it with you, but I can not make you happy any more. We used to be happy together. Now I only know happiness for the short periods we have alone, when something hasn't happened to shatter that.

I don't want to find, or be with a women as much as I want you to love me. I want you in my life, I want to feel cared about, appreciated, loved, and cherished by you. This life we live now was not what we wanted, it isn't what we talked about, what we agreed to, or what we should have now. It's what you continue to cling to even when it became clear that it was not working a long while ago. I'm not leaving you. It's you who has left me in many ways.

You have grown distant It's not just one or two things recently. It is a lot of things over time, for a long while. If she leaves, and it will make you happy to go with her, then you should do that. All I expect if you do is that you still be willing to co-parent with me. ok

First he said, "I'm sure you'll have all that."
Then he told me that moving out with Chipmunk was never an option, it is only me who has thought that it was. That he has never considered it. That he and I are together, that it is comsic, metaphysical.

Here'se things went from there (gmail chat):
Airyn: I said I'm sure you'll have all that because I am... You're reading too much into it. Being sad about Chipmunk leaving is far from wanting to leave with her. Being uncomfortable in our situation and distant is far from not wanting to be with you.

me: It leave me little to cling to in my part of this situation.
I feel like I'm grasping at threads. like your slipping away.
I keep saying I'm not going any where
that I'm still here
what I'm not saying is that I see you leaving
I'm not saying you don't love me, just that you may find you don't want to share that love with me any more.
It scares me.

Airyn: You're taking little things like someone being hungry and coming up with a famine. You may feel foolish in a few months after she' left and everything is just like it was before.

me: it makes me sad
maybe
you are usually right.
that nightmare I told you about.
It's my biggest fear right now.
that I'll come home
and you'll just be gone.
your things, and even Wolf gone
all gone
An empty house, an empty bed, an empty life
I cry in the car when I leave for work, and on my way home
I have to go I have to get up and walk
it's to much and I can't think

Airyn: ok

From there we went to texting. I told him I didn't feel so good. That I was going to wash my face, and get out and do some of the physical work that is being asked of me right now.

He said, "okay I hope you feel better."

Then he took some time during the day while Chipmunk was going through her stuff, to ask if i was ok. Checking in with me to see how I was feeling. It was not a good day for me in general. I knew that he anc Chipmunk would need to talk. I told him the night before that I would try to stay out of the way so that they could have the space she would need.

I went for a walk, they argued at the house. Then Airyn messaged me saying he was going to take her out to do the holiday shopping she wants, asked if i was ok. Told me they were on their way out and that I should come home now. I told him I was sitting in a park not far from home with my knitting. I knit it's relaxing, and I have a list of projects I want to do. Plus a good long walk helps when your thoughts and emotions are in a swirl.
 
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Chipmunk In the aftermath:

Long email condensed down, I have basically told Chipmunk to grow up, to change.
Airyn has told me that he's with me on every point in this, and has stuck to that. He told me that I did the right thing, that I did not do or say anything wrong.

We both have seen how she is, and knew she would react badly. Even when the conversation is not harsh, argumentative, or asking her to compromise, or be flexible she takes it negatively. as negatively as possible. So I knew, and Airyn knew that the email would not go over well, and that she would be upset, and that it would take time for her to calm down and think rationally about it.

Her first reaction was sadness (maybe even grief). Tears, upset, then anger at me. Arguing with Airyn about what was said. Then denial, the she began to question Airyn about some of the things in the email. now she is more calm, and is beginning to accept and is show (at least) Airyn that she is willing to work at her stuff.

Airyn told me that she was venting at her closest friend, her first love, and x-boyfriend from high school I'll call him YoungLove. He told her to calm down and shut up. I'm not sure if she forwarded the email to him or not, but I would not be surprised if she did.

In her anger at me Thursday morning, she was venting, throwing things into bags, and tossing them into the closet she uses. Cleaning up the mess in the bathroom, and bedroom with angry energy. Telling Airyn she going to move out, leaving done. His response (as he tells me), Maybe you should get your own place. He says that stopped her. It was the first time she said she was going to move out that he had agreed with her. It opened her eyes some. Made her have to take a step back and actually think. Does she really want to leave, move out, go her own way?

Next she did some denial, I do not know what was said on her end, and that is probably a good thing. Then she began asking questions of Airyn. Do I really sound like that, talk like that to you? He tells me he pointed out thing that she had said and done the day before. She had no reply, but when she again started to order him around she caught herself. Told Airyn that she doesn't want him to do what she had just said unless he wanted to.

It's a beginning. It is difficult to work at making changes within me. To grow for myself, and my relationships when I see (or feel) that I am the only one working to fix personal stuff.

Airyn told me before I left for work that Chipmunk is no longer saying she's moving out, that now she is talking about one of the houses I was looking at. That she has gone through all these emotions in less then a day, and decided that she does want to work on being in this relationship. That she is willing to work on her so that she can continue to live with this family.

Now I have things to think about, emotions of my own to work through, and changes of my own to make happen. Airyn and Chipmunk spent the majority of the day out together. Talking, shopping, walking around Malls, and stores together. Friday (today) Is My day with Airyn. Chipmunk wants to do more Holiday shopping, but has not said as much to me as of yet. She has told this to Airyn.

Today is My day, and I have not decided if i want to do holiday shopping. I am tired, mentally, emotionally, and physically tired. My job is draining on me this time of year. The emotions, and turmoil of these past weeks is hard. I need rest, relaxation. I am an introvert, so doing the social things, going out for shopping therapy (as some call it), sitting at a bar or resturant is not for me.

I will have to see how I feel when I get off. No matter how I feel I will remind Airyn and Chipmunk both as calmly, and respectfully as I am currently able that Today is my day. That I am done setting things like that aside to keep Chipmunk's drama down. It is high time I start taking care of myself. It is past time for the things we have talked about, the requests that have been made to be put first. She had all of yesterday to work through how she felt. It may not be much; however personal growth comes from within, not from outside. Having time where she has to think, and work things out for herself with out Airyn as a sounding board (even if just for a day) is not a bad thing.

Deep breath.

You are all correct. I, We all have work to do. Living together though means that everyone has to work, not just one or two, but everyone. We don't all have to work at the same pace, but visable work is needed to keep things moving in positive directions.
 
Giggles and silliness with Wolf

Not all things were sad yesterday. Here's a fun bit.

Wolf and I had planned to walk to school Thursday morning. we were leaving later then planned, and walked out the door to find that it was drizzling, well misting actually. So I told her we'd take the car. I don't remember the whole conversation as I started out giving her just half an ear. I was still thinking about the conversation with Airyn while I was at work.

Eventually our conversation turned silly. I told Wolf that I'm tired and grumpy. That I'm always tired and grumpy.

Wolf: Your only grumpy sometimes mom.

Me: Nope I'm always grumpy <Exaggerated angry face>

Wolf: <giggling> You are grumpy a lot.

Me: Get it right I'm always grumpy and don't you tell any one any different. You tell them your mom's a scary angry lady, and don't mess with her. <more exaggerated angry face>

Wolf <more Giggles> ok your always scary grumpy.

We talked more in the car about how she is treated by other people at school, mostly she just wanted an ear to listen, and to hear her mom tell her that she can be mean and rude back when the situation warrants it. She won't be rude, or mean, she a good kid and just wants to make friends. She does however enjoy it when I tell her to say the ridiculous thing.

Like when some one asks her an inappropriate questions I told her once that instead of answer their question she should ask what hand they wipe there ass with. lol, that brought a smile to a tear filled face. Today I was telling her that when someone is being unreasonable, and ridged she needs to remember that she is open minded. That she can tell them she has friends that are as closed minded as they are, and it won't hurt her to not have another one. That she should tell these people that she is different, that she is weird. That weird is better then normal, who wants to be normal, everyone else is normal. Weird is pretty cool.They are missing out on getting to know someone who is different if they chose to stick to their ridge attitudes. She isn't missing anything as she already has people in her life that are like that.

These conversation make her smile.

On the way home she and I were walking, no drizzling this time. She asked what I was thinking about. I hadn't been paying attention tothe conversation. I admitted that i had a lot on my mind. Told her I was thinging about holiday, and b-day gifts that I still need to get. Then I said:

Me: I told on you to my brother today. I told him you were making fun of me and my grumpy anger.

Wolf: <Giggling> Which brother?

ME: My brother with my dad

Wolf: You have a lot of brothers, your like the only girl.

Me: What about my sister? Is (new nickname) Mustache a brother too?

Wolf: <Giggling> Yep Mustache is a brother.

Me: Ohhh I'm telling her you said that.

Wolf: Giggling

Me: texting my sister - "Wolf told me I have a lot of brothers, and I'm like the only girl. I said what about you, or are you a brother too? She said yep she's a brother too. Then told me I was very guyish too. o_O" <end text>

Wolf: <Laughing> She will probably relate that to Cheese or poop, she alsways relates things to Cheese or Poop. Cheesy poop. Poopy cheese!

Me: lol yeah probabaly.

Text from Mustache: HAHAHAHAHAHahahahahaha
I'm a man!

Wolf: <still chattering on> And if she ever gets a pet she should name is Cheese.

Me: well that's better then poop. Oh let see what Mustache said.
<Reading text to Wolf>

Me Texting back: lol, Wolf says if you get a pet you should name it cheese! and she said YEP Mustache you are a man. hahahahahaha

Me and Wolf: Laughing over the silly

Text from Mustache: But Charlie isn't cheese.

Me texting back: Hahahaha

Charlie is Mustache's pet gerbal. lol

Then we get home, Airyn and Chipmunk are out again. they decided to walk to Chipmunk's store and do some more shopping, and to let Chipmunk talk some more. By this point she wasn't angry at me any more, and had shown me the things she purchased, and told me what was for Wolf, versus her family members.

After a little while I tell Wolf that I can't stay up and wait on them to get home, that I really need sleep. We give each other bed time hugs, and I go to my room. When Chipmunk and Airyn get home Airyn comes to check on me. Seeing how I'm feeling, and then telling me to get some sleep, and he'll check in on me again later.
 
I am not sure you realize that part of success for relationships is accepting people as they are. People don't like the bait and switch of "you're wonderful!" and then being told "you're wonderful but I need you to do x, y and z to keep thinking so" Chipmunk was invited into your home as is because nobody took the time to know her, and now she is being told who she is isn't good enough (dont' get me wrong, I wouldve said long time ago - made a mistake, youre wonderful but I can't live with you because we aren't compatible that way). I hope that in the future you take the view that people should be accepted for who they are, and if they don't mesh with you as roommates, friends or lovers, then don't have them be that. If they aren't mature enough to be in a seriously complicated relationship, either dont be in one or accept that they are flawed. I don't imagine if Wolf gets involved with an older person you would like to hear they are being told they need to do this and do that and grow up in order to be good enough to be in the relationship.

I'm kind of sad that you glossed over my advice about it being you and Airyn that you should be focusing on. Airyn is the hinge and he's the one who should be willing to do the buttload of the work, and so far I haven't seen much but cowardly behavior from him and letting you do most of it. I know its easier to tell other people to change because that's easier than working on yourself so it feels like a possible easy fix. If you expect Chipmunk to change overnight, maybe you should do it first to set an example. You and Airyn seem so caught up keeping the emotional drama going (not on purpose, just not choosing to step out of the whirlwind) that doing the basic groundwork which would possibly fix the majority of issues you have must not seem interesting. Without making firm time and space for you and him to be alone and being together, you allow the issues with Chipmunk to be present even in the rare times she isn't.

I really wish you guys luck but I think you could do a lot of stuff you're not to set yourselves up for success.
 
Airyn:...You may feel foolish in a few months after she' left and everything is just like it was before.

... If they aren't mature enough to be in a seriously complicated relationship, either dont be in one or accept that they are flawed. I don't imagine if Wolf gets involved with an older person you would like to hear they are being told they need to do this and do that and grow up in order to be good enough to be in the relationship.

Airyn is the hinge and he's the one who should be willing to do the buttload of the work, and so far I haven't seen much but cowardly behavior from him and letting you do most of it. I know its easier to tell other people to change because that's easier than working on yourself so it feels like a possible easy fix. If you expect Chipmunk to change overnight, maybe you should do it first to set an example.

Airyn has a screw loose if he thinks that your relationship will go back to what it was before you and he got involved with Chipmunk. Even if she moves out tomorrow, your relationship has irrevocably changed. You are not the same person, neither is he. You cannot unknow what has happened. It shows that Airyn is engaging in magical thinking. Such magical thinking - 'if I do this one thing or someone else does this one thing, then all will be well' - is dangerous as it prevents one from understanding the reality of a situation. (I'm not saying he is the only one - it seems like you and Chipmunk has also engaged in magical thinking. It's a very human thing to do. But poison to relationships.)

To echo Anneintherain, please think about what this relationship with Chipmunk is teaching Wolf. PLEASE understand I am not saying you or Airyn are bad parents, not at all. You clearly love that little girl so much. (She seems delightful!) She is picking up something about the situation. Little pitchers are perceptive - they will not understand it as an adult would but they do hear and see things and think about them and fit them into their understanding of the world - often in ways that startle adults. You and Airyn might be setting an example for her that the most immature, unpleasant person wins. And that she should defer to said immature people. That being young and hot means tantrums are ok to throw. That special treatment from others for the young and hot and female is expected (this message is too prevalent already in general society). Or there may be other lessons she is learnign from the situation. Yes, she can learn about generosity and willingness to help from your example too. But think about what she is learning. What are you and Airyn and Chipmunk modeling for her?

Do you and Airyn realize you cannot 'fix' Chipmunk? She needs more help than you or Airyn can provide. Her background has not equipped her in any way with relevant, functional, and sane relationship skills. This is tragic and not her fault in any way. Yes, she can learn but you cannot be the ones to teach her. It is beyond your capability - not because you are useless or uncaring or unwilling - but because she is damaged enough to need professional help.

Finally, Chipmunk does not want to move. She wants Airyn and you to take care of her. So she will attempt to work on her issues. But unless she is seeing a professional therapist and possibly a psychiatrist as well AND making actual trackable progress, this will be a facade, a way to stay in the home. And Airyn is correct in that his relationship with Chipmunk will end if she moves out. However, it will end because his care of her is the reason for the relationship. If he does not take care of her on her terms, meaning constant contact and attention and care, then yes, she will dump him and find someone else to take care of her. And she will proceed to make that person's life hell until they kick her out or she understands this destructive pattern and begins to change. (It's also instructive that your husband has such a need to take care of someone to this degree. Why is that? It's to the point of being destructive.)

You and Airyn could try stopping taking care of her. Don't drive her places. Don't feed her meals. Don't bring her lunch. Don't pay her bills. Have her manage her own calendar. Expect her to contribute to the household. Treat her as a roommate and not a child. (You don't seem to accept such behavior from Wolf. Why accept it from Chipmunk? Because she is more obnoxious and difficult to deal with than your sweet daughter?) Combining this with the demand to grow up and learn how to be a responsible adult in an adult relationship might push her to become a real adult. But it's a long shot. She will probably move out before doing that hard work.
 
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I am trying to hear what you are saying.

Chipmunk and I have no relationship. We are currently more like casual acquaintances/roommates. I can really only state the obvious. That she does need to move out on her own. Basically I have been telling Airyn that I don't like this arrangement it doesn't work for me. I told him almost 2 months ago now, that I don't care that he has a girlfriend, but I don't want her living with me. (I have actually told Airyn this multiple times, unfortunately I was also very emotional and/or angry so it was being blown off I think.) However, her moving out is not my decision to make, or not just my decision to make.

I have also talked with Chipmunk multiple times about how she feels, and what she wants/needs. Several times I have asked her to find a way to be able to talk to me, and Airyn about things. This is not happening. I have talked with Airyn about how we have been doing things for Chipmunk that we wouldn't do for Wolf, that we allow Chipmunk to do/act in ways we do not allow Wolf, and that this has to change. Airyn is not fast to make these changes, I am not either. Part of that is that we do feel responsible.

We both feel to varying degrees that we talked Chipmunk into this arrangement, and told her all these things that didn't work out. So we feel guilt (to varying degrees) over things not working the way we had described.

I'm listening, and I'm thinking.
I've been overtly emotional recently.
I've also been doing a lot of reading, research, learning.
I have a lot to think about.
I do understand that people should be accept for who they are. I was presented with a person who expressed her self as something that turned out to not be so. When someone moves in with you, you learn more things about them. Some things are good, some are bothersome, and some can be obnoxious. I have heard about many relationships that were wonderful till after the couple moved in together, and found out that certain traits/habits we not acceptable.

The way Chipmunk happens to be does not work for me in this situation. Would it be ok in a different situation? Possibly, just not in this one.
I told Airyn that if she lived else where, and Wolf and I did not have to see and hear some of these things, then it would not be an issue, he could be in a relationship with her how ever he wants. Since she lives with me, she has to be just as willing as I am to make things comfortable at home. Airyn asked me to be more calm, to help him by finding a way to cope and reduce the stress levels in the house. I have done as much as I can, or as much as I am willing to (the same thing right?) They have both acknowledged (after she and I broke up) that what they are asking of me may be too much. So now I'm saying that yes I can not continue to live this way. I am also giving them the chance to find a way that will allow all of us to live together. Chipmunk can say Ok, I see you don't like how I am, and we can't live together. I will move out. She does not want to do this, and Airyn also does not want her to move out.

Another problem that I have yet to talk much about is that Chipmunk does not react well to me. As in she has begun to dislike me in general. Avoiding being around me, getting moody when we are all together. This makes Airyn feel like he has to be close to her to reduce the potential drama. He told me that he thinks it's jealousy. That I have what she wants, marriage, long term relationship. I can't change that, and I'm not leaving. We presented ourselves as a married couple, as a unit, a packaged deal. She chose to accept what we offered, as much as we chose to accept what she said she was offering (or willing to try). Things didn't work, and have been broken for a long while. I'm reading these forums, learning new things, and trying them on for size. Trying to cope with a situation I don't like, and did not want.

Right now All I can do is shake my head. I'm tired, drained, fed-up. Yes I know we made a mistake. I talked to Airyn about this a long time ago, and we still talk about it some times. The whole thing moved way to fast. To fast for me, to fast for Chipmunk, and to fast for Airyn. It didn't work out, and now we are here. I don't know if this can be fixed, right now I'm resistant to working on having a relationship with Chipmunk at all. I have talked to Airyn about this. It stems from my need for healing. I'm mourning is what I have read here. I'm mourning the loss of my ideals, the loss of something I wanted that didn't work, the end of a relationship. This is new and different for me. lol I have more than 10 tabs open in my browser about communications, loss, grief, how to open, more than two, and so many others.
 
Developments: Part 1

Synapsis:

Friday was the roommate comment, Saturday Airyn spent his time out as a couple with Chipmunk, and didn't spend time out with me as a couple or as a family.

The following week:
Monday on the way to Airyn's photography class i tell him about the email I'm writing and he agrees to read it, and offer his advice/suggestions.

Tuesday we take Chipmunk to get her first Tattoo, A piece of Art Airyn drew for her. He's excited to have his art on another person. She's excited to be getting her tattoo she had Airyn draw it up a couple months ago. It's a good day, everyone is getting along, and I feel uncomfortable shattering that with the email so put it off for later after getting Airyn's idea on it.

Wednesday I sent Chipmunk that email

Thursday Airyn and Chipmunk spent the whole day out together with a few moments here and there at the house.

Friday Airyn and I argued about the email. Me telling him that he should have been talking with Chipmunk about these things as they came up instead of me sending her that email. And then we argued about Fridays being just me and him as much as possible. Meaning that Chipmunk should not be making plans for the two of them on Fridays at all. It started with me strongly suggesting she find something to do out of the hour for several hours before she has to be to work. Airyn Trying to make this suggestion seem unrealistic, me sticking to it. In the end we decided to go out ourselves the next Friday.

Saturday Chipmunk is calm, making a B-day cake for her step-dad, and spending most of the day with her family. Airyn and I actually get some awkward quality time (for the first time this week).

This past week:
Monday, Airyn says he wants to spend some time with me, then a couple hours later when we can he changes his mind saying he needs to work on a school project. I received a message from History, and she and I message back and forth for a little bit. Airyn starts quizzing me about being mad at him for him deciding to work on school stuff. Than he decides to lay down with me, but it feels rushed (to me) and as if he's coming to me because he feels obligated, So nothing happens, and we argue. He's got only a very short time before he has to leave to get Chipmunk from work, and he points this out which only solidifies my response.

Tuesday, Airyn cuddles with me for a few mins at my bedtime and tells me that after Monday night he's just going to wait to lay down with me till Friday telling me that I obviously need some quality time, and maybe spending Friday together will help.

Wednesday, Chipmunk is off, Airyn and I have talked about going out to get coffee, but Chipmunk gets ready so I tell Airyn I'm not going.
They get back and Airyn tells me Chipmunk doesn't know how to handle me not going out with them. I tell him it's easy if she going I'm not, If she's not going then I'll go. Wednesday, her day off, she can go. That evening Airyn starts making a spreadsheet showing where he spends his time, and asks me to set up some calculations for him. Till now he has adamantly refused any suggestions that include him scheduling time with me, or Chipmunk, or any one else for that matter.

Thursday we are all in the kitchen Breakfast, and coffee. Airyn and Chipmunk talking about Chipmunk getting to visit with her grandmother next time we go visit Airyn mom (they are only a few hours away). I subtly try to find out how we are going to get Chipmunk to her grandmother with out her introducing Airyn as her boyfriend and me as a roommate. From what Airyn is saying we will have Wolf with us too, so it sounds like I'm going up there with my family, but can't be part of my family. He's not getting it so I say it point blank. Chipmunk isn't telling her family about us, and I'm not going over there with my family and pretending like I'm not there, don't exist, or not part of the family. Chipmunk leaves the room, Airyn and I argue.

This is where things get more interesting.

Airyn is telling me that it's not a plan yet, that its several months away, that this could have come up later in a month or two months. I tell him that if I don't say anything then no one will think about it. That Chipmunk needs to think about what she is asking me to do and actually talk about it. That I'm not sitting in the car while she introduces him as her boyfriend and ignores my existence. That I'm not doing that again, that the roommate things is a very sore point for me, and that he should have seen that from the moment it happened, and all the conversations he and I have had since. That if he didn't want my comments then he should have had that conversation in private. I told him I'm done being considerate, and ignored. Things calm down and we move on. Friday he and I have plans to go out between 11 and noon a be out for several hours. Chipmunk is aware of this, and is just staying at the house.

Then he pulls up the Spreadsheet that I have added his calculations too, and we work out how it should look based on how this week has been going so far, and what the up coming plans are. Chipmunk says she doesn't like his spreadsheet. I don't comment other then to help figure out what time is spent doing what where. Airyn up till know has said he can not and won't schedule time. Now he's showing that he is willing to change this attitude. Airyn tells me that Chipmunk doesn't like the spreadsheet because she feels she'll be losing time with him. I tell him I don't much care if it makes her uncomfortable that he really needs to see that what I have been saying is real, and start working with me to change things. He tells me that everyone knows I'm not getting time. I tell him this isn't true that they have both continued to act as if I'm being unreasonable (I give him so recent examples). I tell him that Chipmunk should be losing some time alone with him, that he needs to be working at being my partner. He asks me if I learned anything or saw anything unexpected in the spreadsheet, i tell him, "No, I've always known That I have been getting the short end of things." And I tell him that i hope the two of them seeing it laid out like this will help to move things in a more positive direction. I also tell him that I see the plans we have for this weekend being a good start at repairing some of the damage.

Thursday night, Friday morning (I'm at work) Airyn tells me they were up late talking. About the roommate comment. This is what he tells me:

Chipmunk says that she should be able to go out and tell people that Airyn is her boyfriend, that I should not have thought otherwise. Airyn tells her that my issue with the roommate comment wasn't about her calling him her boyfriend its that her decision and the response when questioned shut me out. It left me no place by Airyn side, or to be at her store as a family. Even though we are well known as a family. She also talks about deciding who Airyn will be "out as a couple" with before leaving the house so we can still all go out as a group. They also talk about long outings when to switch off and such.

Friday Airyn is really tired from being up so late, and doesn't want to wake up. We get up start on coffee, and head out to half-price books for coffee, and book browsing later then we planned. On our way to Half-price Airyn is telling me about the conversation with Chipmunk the night before. Talking about being able to go out as a group, and deciding before we leave how things will roll. I tell him at first that I don't think I'm up for trying that again right now. He continues explaining. That if it's my day off then he's out with me, If it's Chipmunk's day off then he's out with her. That if we both have off we'll have to figure things out before we leave. If it's something for Wolf then He'll be out as a family with me and Wolf. I tell him that this is sounding like something that could work, and that I'd be ok with trying this out. He then tells me that Chipmunk is going to talk to me tonight after she gets home from work about her job. He asks me to be calm and just to listen to what she's going to say. I tell him I'll try. He asks if I want to hear it from him first so I can be prepared. I ask if he thinks my knowing will make it easier for me to just listen. He says maybe, and thinks about it for a while. Then he tells me that Chipmunk has decided that she is prepared to deal with her co-workers. That she doesn't like that I feel I can no longer go up there. That I won't shop in her store any more. They have talked about what to say. That we are all really good friends, or that He and I are best friends from high school. She has decided that if anyone asks for further details she will decide what to tell them based on who they are, and how comfortable she is with that person. Either way she is willing to allow me to openly shop as a couple with Airyn, or as a family with Airyn and Wolf.
 
Developments: Part 2

After dropping Chipmunk off at work I tell Airyn that I have something I want to go out and do while Chipmunk is at the Mall with her mom on Saturday. I tell him about it, about the times and such, and we agree we'll go after we drop off Chipmunk, I ask if he wants to bring Wolf, and tell him that I don't mind it'll be fun. Airyn tells me that Chipmunk wants to do some shopping before going to meet her mom, and he's asking if I'm ok with them getting up really early to go out (since it's my day). I tell him that's fine that I wasn't originally expecting to have any time Saturday, so I feel like it's a bonus. Friday night Airyn and I go out to dinner, come home take Wolf out to see Christmas lights, and then head home to nap. Airyn was up late, and I had worked all night so we were sleepy. Chipmunk gets off, comes home, and she and I do not have that conversation.

Saturday morning early, Chipmunk's mom cancels their plan, she briefly wakes Airyn telling him that they don't have to go out so early. Airyn just agrees and falls right back to sleep (he barely remembers). I wake up an hour or so later, and wake them up in time to take Chipmunk to the Mall, then I find out that's been canceled. Everyone gets up and Airyn and Chipmunk head to the kitchen for coffee makings. Airyn send Chipmunk into the bedroom to talk to me.

She and I have the conversation about her job, and about going out as a group. She tells me I should still be able to go to her job with Airyn, or with him and Wolf. I tell her about her being uncomfortable and how I didn't see that going anywhere good once her co-workers start talking behind her back about her involvement with a family man. She says it's not right that I won't go up there, so I tell her it was the only comfortable choice I had available. Then she talks about the not going out as a group thing (her and Airyn were getting ready to go out for their shopping trip). She's telling me that she doesn't want that, that she wants me to go out with them today, that to her it's separation, and that it's not good. I point out that I was again doing the only comfortable thing available to me. I agree to go out with the two of them, She making a couple stops that are of no interest to me, so I say those are her places, and that we can split the rest. It ends up being to nebulous for Airyn, but shopping trips were never the issue to begin with. However it is still a good exercise to see how this might work, and start fleshing out this idea. Sadly this experiment meant that Airyn and I did not get to go out just the two of us the to market art event I was interested in. I tell him that I'm disappointed, he asks when it's over and I tell him just before Chipmunk has to be to work.

We have a good evening, have some real quality time. Intimate, and tender, and full of love. He likes it when I place in hand at just the right spot for him to feel himself moving within me. After we hop in the shower for more cuddling. Then to the kitchen to make food stuffs. I'm making Mandelbrot (almond bread like biscotti), and then some Latke's. We are actually atheist, but celebrate Hanukkah with Wolf as my family is Jewish even if I've never participated in that religion. He tells me that Chipmunk and her mom are planning to have their mall outing on Sunday. I tell him that means we may get a few hours to ourselves again. I also pull up his spreadsheet to update how things actually went Friday and Saturday. I tell him that we need to make plans and stick to them. That I understand Chipmunk can't control her mom canceling things, but that this isn't the first time her mom has messed up plans. He agrees, but we put off talking more about it till later. Neither of us want to have an argument.

Sunday I talk more with Airyn (after we drop Chipmunk off for lunch with her family) about making plans and sticking to them. I'm helping him add next week to his spreadsheet, and we are getting some basic plans together. I tell him that we really need to stick to our plan, that this week ended up being no different from the previous weeks this month. That I get that Chipmunk can't control her mom's cancellations, and that she still wanted to do her shopping. I tell him going as a group was the right thing to do in this case. It's like giving Chipmunk a positive for finally being willing to talk to me about these things. I tell him that I could have said, "I'm sorry your mom canceled, and I know you want to shop; however, Airyn and I have plans and are going out shortly just us." But I didn't. I tell him he could have done the same thing, and that we could have promised to do the shopping thing on Sunday afternoon instead.

When Chipmunk gets home we find out that she is making plans to visit with her family for most of Friday, so that Airyn and I can still have our Friday even though she happens to have it off. I tell her about the plans I was making for Thursday (her other day off) to be out of the house and give them the majority of the day at home. Everything seems to be acceptable on either end, and couple time is showing to be evening out. At least till the dates get here.

I'm optimistic, but also afraid. I'm worried that this it temporary. Things are getting better between Airyn and I. We had a reasonable amount of alone time (half of which we were a sleep) on Friday. Saturday we really connected, and my confidence was running high so that I kissed him like we used to. He giggled afterwards, and I got all shyish and said he was laughing at me. He grinned and said we hadn't kissed like that in a long time. I just hugged him and said I know, and left it alone. Airyn and I are being more openly flirty with each other again, he's more interested in touch then he's been in months, and I feel better. Not whole, but better then I have in a long while. I told him this, that I've really enjoyed his company this weekend, and that I'm starting to feel better. A couple days is not a trend, nor does it repair months of neglect and rejections, but it is a beginning. I see good things being possible.
 
Another wrinkle:

Another wrinkle:
Chipmunk has been having an unacceptable attitude towards/about Wolf.
This started just after she started getting over the email from me.
First she was pointing out the mess Wolf makes, and leaves around the house. Then She started on aggressively suggesting what she terms "tough love". She told me that we should not allow Wolf to make ramen as her late evening snack because Wolf doesn't clean up her bowl, and leaves it on her computer desk at bed time. The first time I just nodded at her, but basically ignored it. Well except I told Airyn about as he wasn't in the room at the time. I told him that she's only bring this up because of the email. Airyn's said that at least she's commiserating with him now instead of saying that Wolf is just a kid. I point out that Wolf is just a kid, and that she get into trouble for these things. That she looses privileges (like computer time) for not cleaning up after herself on a regular basis. The second time I tell her good luck with that, and, Airyn tells her that isn't punishing Wolf it's punishing him. Wolf still has to eat, and if she can't make her own ramen then he has to make something else for her instead. So her next suggestion (third time) was that Wolf not be allowed to use bowls since she's not willing to clean then. I laughed at her and asked how was Wolf supposed to eat if she can't use a bowl. Airyn suggested that Wolf eat out of the pot instead. I glared at him and tell him that's not a solution.

Then Monday morning I'm getting up and ready for work (around midnight). I'm just walking into the kitchen, and Chipmunk tells me that we shouldn't allow Wolf to use cups any more as she has again left her cup out on her desk. I get rude, and tell her I'm not doing that Wolf is 12. A minute or two later she leaves for the bedroom. I tell Airyn again that Chipmunk is only saying this because of the email she received. That if she keeps on I'll be telling her that I can treat her how she wants me to treat Wolf. I can come home to Chipmunk's dirty dishes in the bedroom, and tell her she can no longer use cups, or bowl, and I can take her laptop away as well if that's what she wants. I tell Airyn that she needs to back off. He tells me to calm down and let it go. I tell him ok, I haven't even had a cup of coffee yet.

After work I still find that I feel the same way. So it's not lack of coffee, or fatigue. It's something that has to be taken care of. Airyn and Chipmunk walk to her job, and I leave about 10 mins later so I can meet up with Airyn and walk home with him. On the way home I tell him that he needs to talk to her about this. That her attitude isn't cool, and that she's digging herself a grave telling us how to discipline our kid. He say that last time her told her that we aren't willing to destroy our relationship with Wolf over dirty dishes. I also tell him that we aren't abusive parents and that telling a kid they can't use cups and bowl is unreasonable, how is she supposed to eat and drink if she can't use the dishes? I tell him that for someone who's told him that she doesn't want kids cause she thinks she'd make a poor mother she has no room to tell us how to raise Wolf. That we've been doing fine for 12 years I think we can handle it. He agrees and says he'll talk to her. I tell him that the best time for him to say something will be the next time Wolf leaves something out and Chipmunk says something to him about it. I say that I'm assuming she says something to him first before bring it to me. He again says he'll take care of it. I tell him I want to be sure that he doesn't put it off. I tell him I was rather sharp with her that morning about it and that it will only get worse if she comes at me again. Then I tell him that it is basically a guarantee that Wolf will leave either her food bowl or a cup out again tonight.

This morning I hear nothing about Wolf's dishes, so I'm hoping they had that talk, but they are still a sleep so I'll have to wait to find out.

I also told Airyn that Chipmunk needs to watch it with getting rude at Takara and calling her uncouth. That I can and will do the same to her if she keeps on. Again I reinforce that he needs to talk to her about these things now. I'll be reminding him today, and telling him that there won't be another email from me 3 months from now. These have to be cleared up now not later.

I see this as Chipmunk being spiteful/vindictive over the email she received. I also view this as a problem that Airyn has allowed to crop up. If he had talked with Chipmunk about each item on that email as they came up, instead of waiting for me to get fed up with it then this situation wouldn't be happening. He should also be backing me up when I say I'm not doing one of her suggestions. If she is making those suggestions to him he should be telling her up front that she's being unreasonable, and unrealistic.

I looked back over some of the emails I wrote to Airyn (and didn't send) and noticed several comments in early September about his issues with the state of our place. So from that I know he has had an issue with Chipmunk's mess for at least three months before I sent her that email. I knew he and I had talked about it multiple times, I just didn't realize for how long he had been complaining at me about it. I knew I had commented to him that I didn't like how Chipmunk talks to him since some time in October. Basically the only person who these issue were "new" for was Chipmunk. I could have brought them to her sooner, but really it was Airyn's complaining that pushed me to send the email. Well that and his inability to talk to Chipmunk about how she orders him around. Up till I sent that email I had only pointed out to him that he was complaining to the wrong person, that it is not my mess we are cleaning up (yet again). I had told him every time that he should start talking to her about how he prefers a neat organized space and ask her to pick up her things. He refused saying he can't do that that I have to let him deal with it his way. I told him that if that's how he feels then he needs to stop coming to me with his complaints cause I'm tired of telling him the same thing.

So this time I was very firm about him talking to Chipmunk NOW about this issue before things get worse. We'll see how this goes.
 
Well, I talked to Airyn while he was making coffee. He said it didn't come up, and he didn't talk to Chipmunk about her telling us how to discipline Wolf.

Unfortunately he also told me that he basically erm proactively? avoided it coming up. He said that before he left to pick Chipmunk up from work he told Wolf to clean up her dishes, and be in bed by the time he got back.

Which as a parent was the right thing to do. So not really avoiding discussing this issue with Chipmunk so much as making Wolf do her part. However the result of which means that he did avoid the usual situation of Wolf going to bed and leaving her dishes out. I can't fault him for that, but I really wish he had found another way to take care of this last night. Oh well. There are other nights, it is a very common thing for Wolf to do. Shoot this morning I reminded her that she has to take care of her cats, and she still didn't clean their litter pans before headed to school. *Sigh*

Maybe she needs to try a spreadsheet of her own. Must to find something that actually works for her.
 
A struggle I am having with my primary is being codependent. He complains about things that effect us both. I ask him to address the issues and he doesn't so I do.

What this does to us:

He is the good guy!
I am the raving bitch or just a bitch.
Causes conflict between us.
Causes conflict with me and other people.

After therapy I see my part in it. I see his as well. He is setting me up to be the "bad guy".

I believe this relates to your situation and makes one that is already unfair to you even more difficult.

I to have a DD she is 13. Very typical behavior of that age. My concern is for Wolfe, that is she hears such nonsense she will feel less.

I also wonder why Chipmunk must be protected at all costs from her behavior.

I also know often in my life people who trust me the most treat me the worst because they know I am not a runner and will be here. My relationship with my primary who is my husband is that we are in house separated while he works on his FOO issues. I had no choice but to do this as he doesn't respect me as a person and crosses boundaries repeatedly. I needed to do this not just for myself but for my daughter.

I haven't posted in a very long time. I don't presume to judge u, I see our roles with our spouses being similar.
 
A struggle I am having with my primary is being codependent. He complains about things that effect us both. I ask him to address the issues and he doesn't so I do.

What this does to us:

He is the good guy!
I am the raving bitch or just a bitch.
Causes conflict between us.
Causes conflict with me and other people.

After therapy I see my part in it. I see his as well. He is setting me up to be the "bad guy".

Yep this is exactly the problem. He and I had a bit of an argument about it after I sent out the email to Chipmunk. This also why I am on him now over this issue Chipmunk is playing with Wolf. If he can't get past this, and actually stand up for Me, Us, and our kid. The we have a much larger issue.

I believe this relates to your situation and makes one that is already unfair to you even more difficult.

I to have a DD she is 13. Very typical behavior of that age. My concern is for Wolfe, that is she hears such nonsense she will feel less.

I also wonder why Chipmunk must be protected at all costs from her behavior.

I also know often in my life people who trust me the most treat me the worst because they know I am not a runner and will be here. My relationship with my primary who is my husband is that we are in house separated while he works on his FOO issues. I had no choice but to do this as he doesn't respect me as a person and crosses boundaries repeatedly. I needed to do this not just for myself but for my daughter.

I haven't posted in a very long time. I don't presume to judge u, I see our roles with our spouses being similar.

I don't see you judging, I see you stating the obvious. I just wish I was better a saying these things myself. Airyn has had a couple of rude awakening in the last few months, in the past couple weeks even. This will be a hurdle for him. He "thinks" I have been impatient with Chipmunk over these past 4-5 months. Now he is being reminded what my lack of patients coupled with my quick to anger issue really looks like. He hasn't seen/dealt with these in a very long time.

I know my talk with him yesterday stressed him out. I have reminded him about our talk the day he called me his roommate. I told him I was tired, done. then I sent the email and told them both that I'm done with being considerate and ignored.

He's starting to see this some what. Especially after I called them out for not think about or including a discussion on how to explain our relationship to Chipmunk's grandmother. It will be coming up again soon. He thinks that we'll be dropping Chipmunk off, and heading to his mom's. I don't see Chipmunk being the only one to get out of the vehicle. I see her wanting to introduce us, and I see her grandmother wanting to know who she's staying with.
 
Why would you consider moving to a large place with the two of them? Especially, Aeryn, when he won't stand up for your daughter or you.

For me it's one thing to mess with me, that's on me. But fuck with my kid and it's on like donkey kong. I am a a very laid back person for the most part, but I would have been all over Chipmunk.

I have followed your situation since the beginning as being in a poly relationship and having a child. I understand you feel obligated that you talked her into this. However, there is a line of unacceptable behavior and only you can define it. You, my lady have been far more patient then I would be.

The other part of this by you being the bad guy, you also get to be the fall guy when their relationship falls apart due to what ever reason.
 
I also have something else to say, so why the fuck what if he is stress out over your conversation. Aren't you stressed over this whole thing? Don't you matter in this at all? Putting my personal beliefs out there, but didn't chipmunk state she wasn't buying the portion for Wolfe when making dinner it was for her and Aeryn.

Non polyfamily's realize that time spend with the child is part of their relationship and honestly she is spending time with him and wolfe, her choice she moved in. I don't understand why that doesn't count.

I gucess I just want to say to you, that you and Wolfe count. What person doesn't protect their child? Would Aeryn speak up to a teacher or someone like that to protect Wolfe? I don't mean to be offensive but he is failing in my mind by conflict avoiding with Chipmunk to not protect Wolfe. You need to decide if your okay with that.
 
Miscommunication

There was a miscommunication between myself and Airyn. It dragged out over several days. He was talking about very different amounts of time then I was talking about.

It resulted in an argument, yelling, tears, and physical manifestations of stress.

We figured out what had happened, and several points where it could have been cleared up but wasn't.

I wrote all about it in detail. But I'm not going to post any more about it just yet. I think I'm still too raw, and angry to be level headed. Plus I've barly slept.

Maybe in a couple days I'll reread what I wrote today, and consider if I still feel it is accurate or not.

Livingmybestlife: I actually spoke with Airyn about several of your concerns before reading your messages. Some of these are still up in the air so to speak.

Airyn has not spoken to Chipmunk about her attitude towards Wolf.
I have informed him that his responses to this are placing Chipmunk and I in a position to have a real serious fight. I told him he needs to fix it, that he can not side with her again when this comes up next. He say that she has been pointing out Wolf's mess for a month or more. I told him he should have handled it so she was not thinking it was OK to bring this to me the way she has.

I also told Airyn that his way of handleing Wolfs mess after I told him to talk to Chipmunk about it was him making sure he avoided this issue one more day.

I told him that I see this avoiding of important conversations as a trend. He disagreed so I asked some questions. I asked him if he has talk to Chipmunk about the roommate agreement we need to be ironing out. I asked if he's talked with her about her paying a small amount of rent and 1/4 the utilities starting in January. I asked if he has talked to her about her getting her own apartment, and transportation. He's response, no, but I still have time.

I did not state the obvious, but maybe I should have. January is less then 2 weeks away, and he and I have been talking about these things at least since the Roommate comment (about a 3 weeks ago now). Some things longer then that.

I did tell him that I would not be sending out another email for him three months from now. He says I'm speculating. I say I'm responding to a trend. To how he treats issue between him and Chipmunk, and between Me and Chipmunk, and now between Chipmunk and Wolf.

I expect we'll have this converaation again later today (Wednesday for me).
 
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