First "open" relationship. Need advice.

seekingclarity

New member
Hey Poly People! This is my first post. Glad I found this place as I didn't know who to talk to about this...

So, after 14 years of marriage that ended in failure (NOT due to infidelity, but rather general incompatibility), I finally figured out monogamy is not for me. Strangely, I quickly found a woman I am super attracted to who has the same thought. We were like magnets when we met. Amazing. We are compatible on a number of levels (the way we eat, work out, keep house, etc. etc.).

We read the Ethical Slut together and are studying various other forms of alternative relationships. It's nice to know we're not alone. We have committed to being completely open and honest with each other and are working hard in that regard.

Here's the issue, though. I feel like she's more of a true poly. She wants an emotional connection with more than one person, even though she definitely wants a "primary" partner (that would be me!). For her, one night stands aren't really appealing. She wants vacations and overnights. She wants to feel a bond.

I, on the other hand, am more of a slut. Basic guy stuff here. I like the excitement of new sexual encounters, but have neither the need nor the desire to develop more than one serious emotional bond.

Obviously, this makes things hard for me, since most women in our society need an emotional bond before they'll have sex and tend to back away from me when I tell them I'm in a committed, open relationship and, while I'm not going to be a douche or anything, they shouldn't count on me for a lot of emotional support (BTW - need to find a place to connect with "sluts" in Minneapolis if anyone has some tips!).

Things are much easier for her. My new GF and I are both very attractive, fit people. So, she has a super easy time finding guys to shag, as most guys our age (mid 30s) are totally cool with her being in an open relationship and just giving her enough of an emotional connection that they can get laid. Hats off to them. For me, the type of women I'm attracted to are already used to guys hitting on them (repeatedly) and aren't really interested in someone unless they think they can get exclusivity. I find that the most attractive people are sometimes the most insecure...

Speaking of which, the problem is that I myself often feel jealous/envious that, not only is it "easier" for her than it is for me to find other playmates, she is developing emotional bonds and going on overnights and vacations with other guys, which causes me some anxiety. I wish she would be OK not needing that and just being able to shag. I'm not even saying she should avoid emotional bonds, just that I don't like the vacations and overnights. It causes me angst. And it's not the sex. In fact, thinking about her with other guys turns me on, a lot. It's the emotional connections and the fear that I don't want to lose this girl who seems pretty awesome for me on a lot of levels...

I guess that's my issue to deal with, right? Getting over the insecurity and being comfortable with the relationship and the fact that she'll always come back to me?

So, my question is this: can a slut and a true poly ever be compatible or will my slutty insecurities get the best of me and cause the demise of this seemingly great thing? Any and all comments appreciated!
 
I think its fine. I actually don't date very much because I haven't met anyone that I like. N on the other hand has a long term partner and 2 lovers as well .(sometimes more) he really hasnt had to test his comfort level too much but as long as you are both honest, open and communicate you can get past any insecurity. Every poly person is different and have different needs. I use to think I would only be ok with him having fwb only but as time has gone by I've become more and more comfortable with him forming more of an emotional bond if that's what he chooses. Reading the threads here have been extremely helpful and I have to say, the more open I become, the better I feel about myself and our relationship. It's definitely been a journey arriving to this place :) you just have to move at the pace you guys are comfortable and really look within yourself when you find you have uncomfortable feelings. Feelings are never wrong, its how you react to them that is important
 
Thanks for the comment.

I agree they are my feelings and I need to deal with them. Sometimes, I wish she would give me a little more time to ease into this, but I feel guilty for asking her not to do what she wants. It's such a hard thing balancing your own emotional needs and insecurities with the needs of your partner. I feel like the further along in this relationship we get, the easier it will get, but I'm just not sure. I feel like I'm always going to get angst when she has an overnight or vacation.

Just to give context, we've only been dating seven months and she's only been on one overnight and one mini-vacation (this weekend in fact!). She's on that vacation right now.

Maybe I'm just seeking reassurance. She gives me reassurance when I ask for it while she's away, but I try not to ask so as not to come off needy or insecure. No girl wants to be with a guy who isn't confident, so maybe that's why I'm asking strangers on the internet for advice?!
 
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I'm sure you could find plenty of sluts who don't want personal connection or emotional involvement on craigslist! But could you trust them to be disease-free or with test results that haven't been forged?

Why not try a little more involved relationship, like a FWB, or even a casual gf, and see how it works for you? You could look for a local poly group and see if anything clicks with women there who might also have primaries and are not in need of too much investment from a guy, though would feel more safe and secure in at least a friendship.

Or you could seek a woman to go to swing clubs and sex parties with (single men are usually not welcome, I have heard, so sometimes guys will bring women to go with in order to get in), if you really only want no strings sex.

As far as your insecurities about your gf's trips and overnights, well,you could talk to her about it. Not to limit her or squash her freedom, but to let her know it's tough for you and see if there is a way she can give you a little extra attention before and after her trips. Tell her you would like some reassurance every now & then that she is still committed to you. Asking for reassurance doesn't mean you lack confidence. In fact, it says you are confident enough to trust her with your deeper feelings.
 
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Why not try a little more involved relationship, like a FWB, or even a casual gf, and see how it works for you? You could look for a local poly group and see if anything clicks with women there who might also have primaries and are not in need of too much investment from a guy, though would feel more safe and secure in at least a friendship.

I'm not even sure how to find a poly group. I should read more I guess?

I would be OK with a FWB or casual GF, I just want to make sure it doesn't get too serious. In fact, that's what I've tried to establish with other girls I've approached. They are interested until they find out I just want something casual. :(
 
Why? What would happen if a situation develops naturally from sex to FWB or girlfriend situation?

Good question. I think I just don't have a desire to go there right now. It's not that I wouldn't, it's just not what I'm looking for. I guess if it happens, it happens, right?
 
Why? What would happen if a situation develops naturally from sex to FWB or girlfriend situation?

Apparently my posts are being moderated now? That's OK since I'm a new guy!

Anyway, to elaborate, while I'm not opposed to that happening, I think I know myself well enough to know that I do not want to (or maybe am not able to?) sustain more than one serious emotional relationship.

If a FWB progresses to casual GF and then progress to "primary," that's fine and might even be expected. I just don't think I can maintain more than one serious, long-term emotional connection due to my work, hobbies and other time constraints.

Does that make sense?
 
Apparently my posts are being moderated now? That's OK since I'm a new guy!

Anyway, to elaborate, while I'm not opposed to that happening, I think I know myself well enough to know that I do not want to (or maybe am not able to?) sustain more than one serious emotional relationship.

If a FWB progresses to casual GF and then progress to "primary," that's fine and might even be expected. I just don't think I can maintain more than one serious, long-term emotional connection due to my work, hobbies and other time constraints.

Does that make sense?

It makes sense.

One thing you could do is make it clear that you have some limitations in terms of attention and time, not as much on an emotional level.

I love sex as much as the other person, but someone who right from the starts tells me it is *only* sex will not get far with me. Because there has to be that connection of liking each other.

However, if someone were to say "I like you, but I don't have a lot of time to really date" that would be way more acceptable and ok.

I guess it might scare other women off as well when you right away shut the door on an emotional connection. However, having time and energy constraints is normal and probably won't scare away as much and as fast.
 
N friends people online that he thinks is cool. They chat an text as friends for awhile, sometimes it turns into a flirtation then it is reveiled that we are open then often plans are made. They continue to be friends online, via text and get together when its mutually convenient. I think approaching it as a friends first is helpful. I also would be turned off if some guy made me feel like a booty call vs having a genuine interest in me as a person. Som
 
One thing you could do is make it clear that you have some limitations in terms of attention and time, not as much on an emotional level.

That seems like a good approach. Thanks for the advice.

I'm still skeptical that my sluttiness is compatible with my GFs polyness, but I guess time will tell.
 
Your sluttiness is OK. Especially since you just came out of a marriage of 14 years. You want to shag, have fun, see what's out there, after 14 years of being monogamous? Fine.

Or did you cheat on your ex wife?

When my ex h and I split, I was ready for love, because we had been together over 30 years, the last 10 of which were a slow circling of the toilet. I was also ready for a sex marathon with whomever I found attractive. So. I was lucky enough to find a serious gf right away, but continued to date, have fun, have cybersex when no warm bodies were near, experiment with kink, etc.

After a year or so of all that, I was ready to settle down and find a serious bf to complement my gf. But it took 2 more years to find him! You may be like me, and calm down in the slut department eventually. Or you may not.

Now, on to your gf. Only one overnight and now one long weekend type getaway in 7 months? Examine yourself. You won't get along with a poly partner if you're deeply insecure. Love is not a limited commodity. The more you give, the more there is! It helps to meet her new bf(s) to take some of the mystery away. Lots of poly noobs have fairly strict guidelines in place at first to keep everyone feeling safe, with set time limits: let's revisit our boundaries in 6 months, or whatever.
 
Or did you cheat on your ex wife?

Only after we separated and I was sure it was over.

Now, on to your gf. Only one overnight and now one long weekend type getaway in 7 months? Examine yourself.

Totally what I'm doing and why I started this thread. I realize these are my feelings and I need to deal with them. That's why I'm here! :)

You won't get along with a poly partner if you're deeply insecure. Love is not a limited commodity. The more you give, the more there is!

I wouldn't call myself deeply insecure. Fairly confident, actually. Just swimming in new waters and trying to get used to the temperature. The fact that I am sharing my GF with other men while I don't have any other GFs in place should speak to that. At the same time, I think the insecurity I am feeling in the first 7 months of a new type of relationship with a new person is normal, don't you think? Think back to your first "open" relationship. Did you ever get worried or jealous?

So yeah, I need to deal with this. It's hard to talk with my GF about it because I don't want to appear "insecure" or "weak," but at the same time I want to be honest and open with her and not build walls around my heart. That's the fine line we all have to walk, right?

It helps to meet her new bf(s) to take some of the mystery away. Lots of poly noobs have fairly strict guidelines in place at first to keep everyone feeling safe, with set time limits: let's revisit our boundaries in 6 months, or whatever.

Good advice. We try not to have hard and fast rules. We say "everything's negotiable."
 
It helps to meet her new bf(s) to take some of the mystery away.

Oh! I just thought of another question. So, I haven't met either of her BFs for a variety of reasons, but here's something strange.

Both are married. Both live out of town. Both do business with GF's employer (she is in sales, they are suppliers...). Let's set aside the fact that I don't think it's a good idea to sleep with people that do business with your employer for a moment...

Guy A was her first overnight. He is separated from his wife (or so he says - hard to know, right?). For whatever reason, I have no bad feelings about A. Without even meeting him, I feel like he's a good dude. Some cosmic universe-type thing tells me he's on the up and up. My GF also had a fling with him before she met me, so maybe that plays into it, but I don't think so.

Guy B is the guy she just went to Vegas with. He claims to have a DADT policy with his wife. For whatever reason, without having met the guy, I think he's lying. GF doesn't want to make him feel uncomfortable by asking him to provide proof (a text or something from the wife confirming DADT). Universe tells me this guy is bad, but she trusts him. She did not have a relationship with him UNTIL this trip. She accepted his invite to Vegas to see if there was anything there (they had met, but not "connected").

I take the idea of "ethical" in "ethical slut" pretty seriously and so does GF. We don't want to encourage or enable "cheating."

So, how do you deal with this?

My thought was we tell B to have his wife talk to ME (another dude) with a story that basically amounts to the truth: B was talking with his guy friend and friend doesn't believe they have a DADT policy when he's travelling and will she please confirm to friend (that's me!) that B is not a liar.

This seems reasonable to me and if he refuses, it probably means he's lying (or at the very least that he doesn't care enough about my GF to bear a little bit of pain so the relationship can progress smoothly).

Thoughts?
 
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My thought was we tell B to have his wife talk to ME (another dude) with a story that basically amounts to the truth: B was talking with his guy friend and friend doesn't believe they have a DADT policy when he's travelling and will she please confirm to friend (that's me!) that B is not a liar.

This seems reasonable to me and if he refuses, it probably means he's lying (or at the very least that he doesn't care enough about my GF to bear a little bit of pain so the relationship can progress smoothly).

Thoughts?

Others will probably feel differently - telling a "white lie" (that you are his "friend") to get at a "larger truth" (that they really do have a DADT policy) is, still, a lie (therefore not in line with the whole "everyone on board open/honest" poly meme); BUT, I actually think this is a pretty good idea.

I've thought and thought on how people can ethically navigate a true DADT...and it seems sooooooo complicated - like they need to have a website where you can tell that they are a real person and they declare their DADT-ness, and the rationale behind it so you can proceed with the knowledge that it is what they actually want.

I've seen versions of DADT on this site that stem from different underlying issues. Some versions seem more like "plausible deniability" - we all agree to pretend things are a certain way , so if it comes "out" (to family, work, etc.) things can be "spun" in a certain fashion. Some are of the "I don't want to know who/when/where" details - I know that it is happening but I don't want any details. You say you are going out with your "friend" and I will carefully avoid asking what the activities are going to consist of type of thing. (Awkward.)

It seems like a huge hassle to me, but...to each their own.

JaneQ
 
I wouldn't call myself deeply insecure. Fairly confident, actually. Just swimming in new waters and trying to get used to the temperature. The fact that I am sharing my GF with other men while I don't have any other GFs in place should speak to that.

Why should it matter whether you have any other GFs "in place" (egad) or not? It isn't a race or a competition. What makes you believe that you both should have other partners at the same time? It's not some magnanimous thing you are doing just because you have no other GFs.

And dude, you're not "sharing her with other men" - yecch, that sounds terrible, as if you've given permission for her to be passed around a room or something. SHE is the one who chooses to share herself. It is her body, her life, her choice. You don't own her, and it isn't up to you how she lives her life. All you can do is accept that she is who she is, choose whether or not you can be in a relationship with her and live with her choices, and set your own personal boundaries about what you want. But she is a free person to choose what she wants.

. . . It's hard to talk with my GF about it because I don't want to appear "insecure" or "weak," . . .

Do you have some sort of complex about making sure you come across as "macho enough" to her, or something like that?

My thought was we tell B to have his wife talk to ME (another dude) with a story that basically amounts to the truth: B was talking with his guy friend and friend doesn't believe they have a DADT policy when he's travelling and will she please confirm to friend (that's me!) that B is not a liar.

Oy, no. If I were her, I would just not stand for a DADT without being allowed to communicate with the wife to confirm it directly. And that should be communicated to your gf, not you. Ultimately, it's her relationship to manage, not yours, so stay out of it. You're not her father or her keeper.
 
Why should it matter whether you have any other GFs "in place" (egad) or not? It isn't a race or a competition. What makes you believe that you both should have other partners at the same time? It's not some magnanimous thing you are doing just because you have no other GFs.

I appreciate your comments, but I hope you'll forgive me if I'm not using the poly "PC" language all the time. I know it's not a competition. You're helping me make my point better than I did because I'm not using language you're comfortable or familiar with. I am simply saying, I am not the kind of guy that needs 1 for 1 parity or anything like that, and it should speak to whether or not I am secure.

And dude, you're not "sharing her with other men" - yecch, that sounds terrible, as if you've given permission for her to be passed around a room or something. SHE is the one who chooses to share herself. It is her body, her life, her choice. You don't own her, and it isn't up to you how she lives her life. All you can do is accept that she is who she is, choose whether or not you can be in a relationship with her and live with her choices, and set your own personal boundaries about what you want. But she is a free person to choose what she wants.

Again, it's probably just nomenclature, but I do feel like it is sharing when you and your primary lover agree that you can each be with other people. It's not a strictly personal decision, but something you, as a couple, have to agree upon. I guess this applies to people who are primary-oriented, anyway.


Do you have some sort of complex about making sure you come across as "macho enough" to her, or something like that?

It's not really a machismo thing. It's about the law of attraction. Many people (and this would include my GF) just don't find insecurity attractive. It's not an image I want to project to my GF or to the world, quite frankly. It's not how I identify. I am a strong, confident man. That is the identity I want to maintain. There is nothing good or bad about it inherently, it's just who I am. Which is not to say I don't have my moments of doubt and weakness, of course. I just try to process them in a way that makes me stronger when they do occur.

Oy, no. If I were her, I would just not stand for a DADT without being allowed to communicate with the wife to confirm it directly. And that should be communicated to your gf, not you. Ultimately, it's her relationship to manage, not yours, so stay out of it. You're not her father or her keeper.

There's the rub. She's not willing to make him feel uncomfortable or like she doesn't trust him. And, it WILL be a relationship of mine eventually. I am going to have to meet him at some point. That's just something we both have agreed should happen.

So, he's going to be in my life in some way and I want to know if I can trust him. This needs to be resolved and I'm trying to find a way that will be fairly painless for all involved to get that done.
 
Others will probably feel differently - telling a "white lie" (that you are his "friend") to get at a "larger truth" (that they really do have a DADT policy) is, still, a lie (therefore not in line with the whole "everyone on board open/honest" poly meme); BUT, I actually think this is a pretty good idea.

Thanks. I thought it was a good idea, too. Perhaps we clean up the story and, instead of saying "friend," we say "work colleague" or "guy I met on this sales trip" which are both true statements since I'm in the same industry as him and my GF...
 
I'm sorry, this whole Guy B thing sounds very sketchy. You lost me at "weekend in Vegas" as a first date.

And, as a poly person, I refuse to date someone with a DADT policy. I did it once years ago when I was a noob. The guy told me he had had a previous gf his wife knew about in general, but didn't want to know any details, and it had worked for 3 years. Then that gf moved on and he started dating me. Somehow that must have upset the apple cart (maybe he "told" too much after all) and his wife left him! Took 80% of their belongings and moved across the country and filed for divorce!

And I'm with NYCindie, making up some bullshit story about being a work colleague who needs to hear from this guy's wife-- WTH, dude? There's no lying in poly!

And yes, I was insecure and jealous when I first got into poly in 1999. Didn't have a nice message board to run issues by helpful experienced people either. My ex and I fucked it up.

I've been practicing poly successfully since 2008 however. Reading here and chatting with others practicing ETHICAL non monogamy has helped.

DADT is not ethical, IMO. Dating cheaters is very much not ethical. Many people here insist on meeting a new person's SO, especially if waters seem murky.
 
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