Half Open Relationship..?

Re-read the post newguy

Re-read the post newguy! Not that he needs me to defend him, but where did you even get the idea BoringGuy was attacking you? If he was attacking anyone is was the OP. He only referred to you to say that while you (newguy) don't think the OP is a jerk, WE (the group) don't actually know if he's a jerk or not because we (the group) don't have nearly enough information to judge that.

Got it....BoringGuy please accept my apology...after I re-read the post, I realize that "OP" meant original poster...not me. For my misunderstanding, I apologize.

Thanks kkxvlv for politely suggesting I pull my head out of my ass...I needed it! And you are right about what I was trying to say...
 
Wow! I must say I didn't expect such a response to my humble little post. Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to read and respond!

Now for some responses: (gotta figure out how to quote posts....)

@CharlotteSometimes:
I agree that emotional reactions don't equal jerk, but the root thoughts and mindset behind those reactions can. I guess that's more what I'm worried about. Also, excellent questions; ones I've posed to myself many times, but haven't yet been able to answer.

@Natja:
Oh, lesbian sex is definitely sex. I just ENJOY when my girlfriend has sex with other girls. As for her being lured away, that's very much a possibility. She's absolutely gorgeous, basically the proverbial unicorn. And while I'm not ugly by any means, I see myself as pretty average. So yeah, I think there's a worry that she might realize she could do better, as unrational as that may be.

@turtleHeart:
Excellent question. This has happened a couple of times, but with me present and without. To answer.... sort of. I try my best to support her bisexuality, but those times where I'm not included I feel.... left out. Sure, I want to play with the other girl too, but also I want to share that experience WITH my GF.

@BigGuy:
1. Thanks! I agree. It's something I usually do well.
2. Good point. Maybe that's what I'm doing...?
3. Another good point. But I haven't figured out yet where said jealousy is coming from.... More to think on...

@GalaGirl:
Fantastic response! Thank you for the links. I've already done a lot of reading, and I'm always looking for more. I am, after all, a ttl n00b.
You also brought up the point about my GF having female lovers without me is a problem. I responded about that above^^^ The other possibilities you mentioned ring true to some extent as well.
As for preferences, I again agree. My GF and I have a strict rule that we do NOT tell one another what the other can and cannot do. Rather, we make our positions clear and let the other decide. Usually, we abide by the other's wishes. But in a way, this is the problem here. I've voiced my preference: let's date other girls and that's all. She then voiced her preference: let's date other girls AND I date other guys. So what do we do when those preferences don't align just right?
As for your suggestion, that's exactly where we are right now. Everything is on hold until we both figure out exactly where we stand and why.

@WhatHappened:
Yet another great question..... It depends. In a couple cases, the "women in question" felt exactly as they did before we had sex. We're still good friends that just happened to hook up one time. It's no big deal, and it's great.
In another case..... well, I'm not quire sure how she felt because she doesn't talk to us anymore. She and my GF hit it off famously at first. My GF thought things were proceeding in more of a romantic direction. The other girl apparently didn't agree. She ran away screaming, basically. Without the screaming part.
In another case, the other girl told us afterward that she regretted it because she doesn't like to sleep around, even though the threesome was her idea.
So, I guess to answer your question: it varies. All my GF and I can do is be clear about what are intentions are and are not. If the other girl secretly doesn't agree or whatever, there's not much we can do about it.

@Inyourendo:
I appreciate your perspective! Thanks! It's strangely good to know I'm not the only one with issues about this. However, you kinda make it sound like I have a choice: either acquiesce, or lose my GF. I'm really not convinced that's the case. She and I have been monogamous (at least romantically) for over two years. We could very well simply remain that way.

@newguy:
Ha! There's a term for it! I find that amusing. But seriously...
Wow, I admire your guts and candor regarding what you told your then fiance. I don't think I could have a similar talk with my GF. More likely would be a talk to just remain monogamous. But again, I'm glad other share my experience.
And yeah, my GF and I are still having discussions about (giggle) a one-penis-policy. Meanwhile, I'm working on getting to the root of my issues.

@Vinccenzo:
At last a response I completely disagree with, though perhaps that's because I was unclear in my original post.
TO women? Women aren't sexually potent? Women can only get pleasure from a man? They're easily discarded and replaced?
I'm sorry, but these points so completely fail to ring with me that I'll not even bother responding. I don't mean to be dismissive, it's just simply not the case with me.

@Dagferi:
Mostly answered in my response to turtleHeart. However, first, thank you for your honesty about me quite possibly being selfish. I did ask for no sugar coating, after all.
But to answer your question, I would.... maybe.... be ok with that. But only begrudgingly so. My preference is that I would also be involved in the relationship, preferably equally. If you want to call that "get[ting] your kicks", so be it, though I certainly wouldn't describe it as such.

@kkxvlv:
Bingo was his name-o. I very much agree. In my opinion, there is no such thing as right and wrong. There is only Hurtful or Not Hurtful. I wasn't meaning to ask about if my actions were "right", but rather if they were well founded and reasonable. Though I suppose it could come across as asking for right or wrong.
As for your hypothetical situations, yup, that's right where we are now: trying to figure out those maybes.

And at long last.... @BoringGuy
Sigh.... I could do without the sarcasm, though based on your rather large number of posts (over 1,000), I'm guessing it's based on frequently hearing n00b idiots like me stumble their way through trying to convey their views on this new and, if you're like me, radical topic. I would more appreciate, instead, that you educate me and point me in a better direction, instead of insulting me.
And that's just the point--I'm completely new to this. So new, in fact, that I technically haven't even started yet, at least as far as an actual poly relationship goes. So forgive me if I don't use the proper terminology, or if I step on a few poly verbal taboos. And if nothing else, at the very least, I'm reading, seeking advice, and analyzing and educating myself BEFORE I take this leap. Maybe you're right. Maybe I have a warped view of polyamory, and I have it all wrong. Guess what? That's why, in my OP, I asked, "Am I just not cut out for polyamory?" I know no one here can answer that for me. But being here is part of a process to discover the answer to that question and others.
Though you are right that it's impossible to tell if I'm a jerk or not just from one post. Who knows? Maybe I hate kittens. And who doesn't love kittens?


Now. Since my OP apparently left some confusion as to what exactly I'm looking for and why, allow me to clarify:
Maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, but I envision an emotional, romantic, and sexual relationship between myself, my current GF, and another woman. However, unlike BoringGuy's description, I don't view it as another girl joining my current relationship, but rather the formation of a completely new relationship. Sure, my current GF and I would most likely be more familiar with one another, but I would still want all three of us to be equal, rather than a twosome with an appendage.

As for why...... Looking back at previous relationships, and looking at myself now, there has always been something.... missing? ....not quite right? It wasn't until my GF and I had our best threesome that I realized this. I say the "best" not because of the sex, but rather because of how the three of us interacted. We cuddled, we talked, we laughed, we kissed... It seemed equal. And it felt AMAZING. It felt complete. And I had never felt anything like it.
From a practical view, it just makes sense to me, though this seems to be where the "share" thing came from. I am heterosexual; my GF is bisexual. We are BOTH attracted to girls. (fecking duh, I know) So when we are with another girl, we aren't sharing HER, we are sharing the EXPERIENCE of being with her. We are doing something together that we have a common interest in. In some ways, it's like two people playing golf together, or singing together, or underwater basket weaving together, or whatever else they have in common. I realize that's an overly simplistic view, considering we're talking about a person, but I hope that gets the idea across. And I think it is this shared experience that always makes my GF and I feel so good about our relationship after a threesome.
And so as for her being with other guys, that's not something we can share. I'm just not attracted to men.
Now, all that said, I also agree that I have some jealousy and insecurity that needs to also be addressed, but I hope all that paints a more succinct picture of what I'm thinking.

-Cloudy
 
Looks like sharing is really important to you. Now, here's my question: suppose you meet a new girl and you two are attracted to each other, but she and your GF aren't attracted to each other. Would you continue this new relationship independent from your GF, or would you rather give it up because you can't form a three-way relationship?
 
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Would you continue this new relationship independent from your GF, or would you rather give it up because you can't form a three-way relationship?

Hmm, not sure... I think, provided my current GF would be ok with it, that I still pursue the new relationship, but it would have to be very much as a secondary relationship, and I would want at least a friendship between existing and new. This arrangement would definitely not be my first choice, and it's very possible it wouldn't fly at all. And even if it did, I don't think it would cure that "itch" I mentioned in my previous post.

(ps: finally figured out quotes)
 
Now. Since my OP apparently left some confusion as to what exactly I'm looking for and why, allow me to clarify:
Maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, but I envision an emotional, romantic, and sexual relationship between myself, my current GF, and another woman. However, unlike BoringGuy's description, I don't view it as another girl joining my current relationship, but rather the formation of a completely new relationship. Sure, my current GF and I would most likely be more familiar with one another, but I would still want all three of us to be equal, rather than a twosome with an appendage.

As for why...... Looking back at previous relationships, and looking at myself now, there has always been something.... missing? ....not quite right? It wasn't until my GF and I had our best threesome that I realized this. I say the "best" not because of the sex, but rather because of how the three of us interacted. We cuddled, we talked, we laughed, we kissed... It seemed equal. And it felt AMAZING. It felt complete. And I had never felt anything like it.
From a practical view, it just makes sense to me, though this seems to be where the "share" thing came from. I am heterosexual; my GF is bisexual. We are BOTH attracted to girls. (fecking duh, I know) So when we are with another girl, we aren't sharing HER, we are sharing the EXPERIENCE of being with her. We are doing something together that we have a common interest in. In some ways, it's like two people playing golf together, or singing together, or underwater basket weaving together, or whatever else they have in common. I realize that's an overly simplistic view, considering we're talking about a person, but I hope that gets the idea across. And I think it is this shared experience that always makes my GF and I feel so good about our relationship after a threesome.
And so as for her being with other guys, that's not something we can share. I'm just not attracted to men.
Now, all that said, I also agree that I have some jealousy and insecurity that needs to also be addressed, but I hope all that paints a more succinct picture of what I'm thinking.

-Cloudy

Hey Cloudy, I'd like to suggest that, yeah, rose colored glasses are in effect here. Triads (three people all in romantic relationships with each other) are not impossible, but much more often what you end up with is a vee (one person in a romantic relationship with two different people) when the third person forms a stronger/different bond with one of their new partners than the other. No problem though, vees are fine and great! Errrr, unless, of course, you had your heart set on a triad, in which case the partner who's "left out" tends to take it really hard.

Alternately, a triad does begin to form, but then one of the members of the preexisting couple gets way more jealous than they thought they would once the desired state of equality begins to manifest (usually a lot of this has to do with spending way too much time together way too quickly), and the newer person just ends up getting emotionally tugged around until they can't deal any more and they leave.

BoringGuy is abrasive, but you're spot on about his reason for responding that way -- we've ALL seen way too many sad and messed up stories that start the way yours is. Good on you for taking the time read, talk, learn, and think things through before proceeding further.

My advice (based on a long poly dating history and a ton of reading peoples' stories on this site) would be to:

- Keep an open, flexible approach to whatever new relationship(s) form, don't work with a lot of preconceived notions and ideals and assumptions about what structure is best, and talk things through in a candid, relaxed way with any new person who starts to take an emotional interest in either one of you. If you try to shoehorn any new thing into a particular shape, chances are much better that you'll ruin what you could have had, rather than get what you wanted.

- Accept that this hypothetical new person may have other interests/desires, or other partners of her own, and that that's not necessarily incompatible with forming a serious relationship with one or both of you (it's a common, and imho seriously hypocritical and problematic, thing for folks in couples to want a new partner to only be with them).

- Understand that triads, if you do happen to find yourself in one, are not, in fact, a single new relationship. They are a set of relationships, and it's just good to keep in mind all of the complexity that entails versus your current state of just needing to maintain one healthy relationship, which I imagine feels complex enough most days:
A-B
B-C
A-C
A&B-C
A&C-B
B&C-A
A-B-C

Good reads:
http://www.morethantwo.com/coupledating.html
http://davidlnoble.com/so-somebody-called-you-a-unicorn-hunter/
 
Hmm, not sure... I think, provided my current GF would be ok with it, that I still pursue the new relationship, but it would have to be very much as a secondary relationship, and I would want at least a friendship between existing and new. This arrangement would definitely not be my first choice, and it's very possible it wouldn't fly at all. And even if it did, I don't think it would cure that "itch" I mentioned in my previous post.

(ps: finally figured out quotes)

See, one of the problems with this way of looking at things is this -- not all relationships work out. Let's say you DO find someone who's into both of you, and the three of you spend a year all dating each other. By that point you're deeply in love, it's all equal and happy and copacetic. And let's say THEN one relationship fails while the other is still going strong. Let's say your newer gf and your older gf break up. What then? Do you bump one of them down to "secondary" status so that you can find another woman with whom to attempt to form a triad with the one who stays "primary"? All in an attempt to cure the itch for an ideal?

Another problem is this -- in the above-quoted paragraph of yours, if you laid that out to a woman who was into you and your gf, but maybe a little more into you, what you'd basically be saying is this: "I will give you the option for a serious, primary relationship with me of the kind you might want to pursue, but only if you pursue the same type of relationship with my gf, we're a package deal." This is how you set yourself up for failure and heartbreak all around -- by making somebody feel pressured, even a little, to give something a go when it might not be what they really want, because that's the only deal that's on the table, and they don't know much about poly either so they assume it's reasonable and feasible.
 
For the record, I'm not trying to bash your hopes and dreams. I held the same idea in my head when I was newer to poly, that an FMF triad was my ideal. I'm not trying to say, at all, that it's bad of you to want this -- just that it's important to look carefully at the reasons you might want to let it go.
 
And at long last.... @BoringGuy
Sigh.... I could do without the sarcasm, though based on your rather large number of posts (over 1,000), I'm guessing it's based on frequently hearing n00b idiots like me stumble their way through trying to convey their views on this new and, if you're like me, radical topic. I would more appreciate, instead, that you educate me and point me in a better direction, instead of insulting me.


I expected you to do that. Predictable, etc.

Please let me know what you think. Don't sugar coat anything. I want real, honest, educated responses. Thank you for reading.

-Cloudy


You asked for it, you got it. Be careful what you wish for; you might get it. ...then again, you might not.

So when you say something, you don't really mean it? when you say you don't want something sugar-coated, you really mean you DO want something sugar-coated?
 
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The way I see it BoringGuy is a lot more boring than people imagine. He's not trying to be clever or attack people. He's just a man who is tired of people not saying what they mean. In this case, I think you meant to say you didn't think the OP's feelings about this situation make him a jerk. Instead you've made a judgement of his entire character as a jerk or not based on one short post.

Thank you! Most people misunderestimate me. :confused: But not you.
 
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AnnabelMore has given you some great points Cloudy and I really hope you read the links she suggested, it is a shame you bristled a bit at Boringgys posts as just a few days ago Boringguy posted this exact (and I am not exaggerating) scenario of a new person coming onto the boards and putting forth their great idea for a totally equal triad as if no one has ever heard of it before and sadly.....we have indeed seen it 1000 times, some of us have experienced triads and trust me, the first few awesome sexual experiences do not make up for the complexity and added stress of a triad, eventually the awesomeness of the threesome fades as well and you'll eventually want to have more dyad (twosome) sex. Think it feels awful being left out when your 'one' partner has sex with someone else? How about when two partners leave you feeling that way?

Trust me, it doesn't do to have a hearts and flowers idea of triads.

Keep reading both here and on other sites and you will see the same stories all over the place. Look at the 'Dating and Romance' section of this site and see all the non responses to the posts from couples 'Looking for our third' and you would realise that all these people are here trying to do the same thing you want, with little to no success at even getting a single person to respond to them.

Finally, I think you might want to separate your g/fs bisexuality from her Polyamorous nature, many couples come seeking out the Hot Bi Babe because the female is bicurious or really wants to connect with women. The triad is their way of doing so whilst still feeling safe and protected within the couple because the man is involved too. However, someone who states that they are Polyamorous and wants to be able to see both men and women would unlikely be comfortable with being confined to one gender because it is more than just about sex for her, it is about the freedom to make connections freely.

HTH,

Natja
 
So when we are with another girl, we aren't sharing HER, we are sharing the EXPERIENCE of being with her. We are doing some thing together that we have a common interest in.

In some ways, it's like two people playing golf together, or singing together, or underwater basket weaving together, or whatever else they have in common. I realize that's an overly simplistic view, considering we're talking about a person, but I hope that gets the idea across.

Pardon me for separating the word something into some thing, but can you see how someone might wonder, from your own words, if Hypothetical Woman is really a woman,, an actual person to you, or just a living, breathing sex toy. By your words up here, she's not even a 'her' anymore, she's now been reduced to an 'experience.'

You and your girlfriend like to play golf, so you go out and get yourselves some golf clubs and have a great experience together and put them in the closet, where they won't get in your way, when you're done with them. But you'd like them there all the time, whenever you want to go golfing again, so you don't have to keep looking for a new set of clubs every third or fourth time you want to golf.

You want threesomes so you go shopping for a hot bi babe and have a great experience together and stick her in a closet where she won't get in your way, when you're done with her? But you'd like her there all the time, whenever you want a hot threesome again, so you don't have to keep looking for a new hot bi babe every third or fourth time you want a hot threesome.

I got the feeling you intended to somehow clarify your intentions, thus proving BG's sarcasm misplaced, unnecessary, and out of line? :confused: If so, all you did for me was strengthen the call for exactly that sort of sarcastic response. What you're describing does not sound to me like a genuine relationship. Unless you feel you have genuine relationships with your golf clubs? Maybe you do.

And I think it is this shared experience that always makes my GF and I feel so good about our relationship after a threesome.

Okay, yes, exactly. What BG was trying to point out. What I obviously too subtly pointed out. It's all about you and your girlfriend. No concept here of you and Hypothetical Woman having a wonderful shared experience with the current GF. Or HW and GF having an amazing shared experience. No, it's all about you and GF--need I stress that again, you and GF--having experiences together. As I read your posts, this HW is just a nameless, faceless body who exists to give you and your GF this amazing experience.
 
I imagine that a likely response from a well intentioned person reading WH's post (or any of this, really) would be "Ok, so my word choice came out weird... that doesn't mean I'd ever act the way being described! What an absurd and unfair leap to make."

The thing is, acting that way when you talk that way and take that general approach is so common that handy tools like this flowchart have been devised: http://tacit.livejournal.com/295369.html.
 
I wasn't even being sarcastic. I was exaggerating in places to make a point, and i tried to be funny about the "THE poly community" thing, but being sarcastic just for the hell of it is frowned upon when the only purpose of it is to ridicule without merit.
 
I've voiced my preference: let's date other girls and that's all. She then voiced her preference: let's date other girls AND I date other guys. So what do we do when those preferences don't align just right?
As for your suggestion, that's exactly where we are right now. Everything is on hold until we both figure out exactly where we stand and why.

You could choose to be assertive in your communication and proactive for your own best healths -- physical health, mental health, emotional health, spiritual health at least. The other three wellness dimensions are financial health, environmental health, and social health.

You could lay out all options and state your LIMIT and let her make her next chess move.

You could determine within yourself if your preference limit is a SOFT limit that could change over time, a HARD LIMIT that will never change no matter how much time goes by, or that at this point you just cannot tell what kind, but so know it is some kind of a LIMIT.

In my decision making process? Anything less than a joyful and resounding "YES!" is not a "YES!"

  • A "no" is not a "yes."
  • A "maybe" is not a "yes."
  • And "I don't know" is not a "yes"

If I don't know if a limit is a soft limit or a hard limit? I call it a hard limit then.

So you could tell your GF something like this:

"Well, this is a personal limitation for me at this time. I'm not willing to be in polyship with you where you date women, I date women, we share women. AND you also date men. THAT'S MY LIMIT. I won't hold you back if you want to go there, but there I cannot and will not go with you."​

And she makes her choice next. She can give up the want to be with other men. Or she can give up the want to be with you.

I know it is sometimes hard to FEEL while going through it, but do it anyway. Come to a decision of some kind after laying out all the options on the table.

You will be alright.

Regardless of the outcome of that... could also do the work you need to do to become more secure in yourself for YOU.

Hang in there.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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When it's a POLICY enforced by a man onto his female partner, that she can only have same-sex liaisons, or additionally must "share" her sex partners with him like toys, but he can have sex with whomever he wants, rather than an AGREEMENT that everyone is happy about (and not just agreed to and put up with until the guy gets past it), a One Penis Policy is a double standard that is ALWAYS sexist, selfish, controlling, and dismissive of women. It would be a lot easier if the OPP-enforcing guy would just announce how chauvinistic and insecure he is, and then go work on it. As someone else said, read a little bit more around this forum. Here are some links to some good, thoughtful threads here on OPPs, which will give you more perspectives on it:

One Penis Policy

OPP, unicorns, and derogatory poly terminology

One-Dick Fantasies


Cloudy, FWIW, I thought Vinccenzo's post in this thread was the most important one for you to digest regarding the underlying patriarchal beliefs that are ingrained in our society. Those beliefs are like default programming and they come into play in insidious ways. The dynamic she described is so relevant, so common, and very much a part of what is drilled into the male mind (at least in western society)! What she described is usually glaringly obvious to everyone surrounding men like you who only want a OPP - yet you immediately discarded her suggestions! That even says a lot -- when people ask for UN-sugar-coated truth and then immediately dismiss something out of hand without even considering it, that means a nerve has been hit! But for self-preservation, the blinders must stay on! I would suggest you sit with her post and let some of it sink in, and drill down into your psyche with deeper questions about attitudes, not about your girlfriend and how much you love women and enjoy their bodies in bed with you and her, but about the beliefs instilled in you, fears about threats to one's manhood, what it means to be a man, possessiveness/ownership/dominance of men over women, and old patterns of thinking. Seriously, what you are talking about is deep shit and should be examined more closely in an"inner knowledge seeking" way.

Also, I have another question for you. What if your GF was straight and NOT bisexual, but came out to you that she is poly? She would only want to be with men. Would that end your relationship? Would you still tell her she has to be with only women and expect her to bring women home to have sex with you, too? Or would you discuss the possibilities and start working on your inhibitions and insecurities about it to see if you could accept her having the kind of love and intimacy she wants in her life? Since poly is about love and not just sex, why would the genitals of anyone she's interested in matter to you, really? It's her body, her heart, and her life. How can it sit well with you that you are dictating who she can share herself with? As I see it, if she wants to share herself with a man and you don't like it, the work to be done is all inner stuff on your part -- to come to terms with your fears, insecurities, and need to be in control, but it isn't about imposing rules on her, a grown woman who is free to choose how she lives her life and whom she wants in it. Shackles may keep her close to you, but they eventually leave bruises and scars.
 
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Since poly is about love and not just sex, why would the genitals of anyone she's interested in matter to you, really?

My theory is... [WARNING: Captain Obvious is Obvious]:
Because some guys with small dicks are intimidated by guys with dicks.

^not referring to a specific individual on this forum or elsewhere, living, dead, or otherwise. And this is strictly MY OPINION and not based on facts of any kind, animal, mineral, or vegetable... Well actually, it does depend on the vegetable, but that's another story and shall be told another time.
 
This type of talk reeks of the philosophy of Franklin's fallacy

Pardon me for separating the word something into some thing, but can you see how someone might wonder, from your own words, if Hypothetical Woman is really a woman,, an actual person to you, or just a living, breathing sex toy. By your words up here, she's not even a 'her' anymore, she's now been reduced to an 'experience.'

You and your girlfriend like to play golf, so you go out and get yourselves some golf clubs and have a great experience together and put them in the closet, where they won't get in your way, when you're done with them. But you'd like them there all the time, whenever you want to go golfing again, so you don't have to keep looking for a new set of clubs every third or fourth time you want to golf.

You want threesomes so you go shopping for a hot bi babe and have a great experience together and stick her in a closet where she won't get in your way, when you're done with her? But you'd like her there all the time, whenever you want a hot threesome again, so you don't have to keep looking for a new hot bi babe every third or fourth time you want a hot threesome.

I got the feeling you intended to somehow clarify your intentions, thus proving BG's sarcasm misplaced, unnecessary, and out of line? :confused: If so, all you did for me was strengthen the call for exactly that sort of sarcastic response. What you're describing does not sound to me like a genuine relationship. Unless you feel you have genuine relationships with your golf clubs? Maybe you do.



Okay, yes, exactly. What BG was trying to point out. What I obviously too subtly pointed out. It's all about you and your girlfriend. No concept here of you and Hypothetical Woman having a wonderful shared experience with the current GF. Or HW and GF having an amazing shared experience. No, it's all about you and GF--need I stress that again, you and GF--having experiences together. As I read your posts, this HW is just a nameless, faceless body who exists to give you and your GF this amazing experience.

Which I notice his empire of websites is often cited here as good goto place for poly info. The problem is that while there may be some good points gleaned from others who practice polyamory, where he gets his logic from I can't say, but it would be wise to at least read from the places he gets his material from because they might have better reasoning and explanations taking the points and blending creative writing practices to give the backstory , especially if you are trying to get people to adopt a certain style of non-monogamy as poly-policy.

I fully understand how hot bi-babes get hurt attempting to become poly additions to couples. I just don't agree with attacking those or ridiculing they who go looking for the unicorn, especially if it is only because it didn't work for you.

If you really want to adopt that viewpoint, you would do well to sort out the difference between polyamory and non-monogamy and casual sex acts for sport. Yes, the sport sex is not really anything remotely related to polyamory, and frankly when the unicorn hunters are more along the lines of "fundamentalist" polys, once the NRE wears off many of them still have a framework much closer to a triad than they do a V or any sort of style where the "metamours " of aware of each other but have little to no contact.

I am not trying to say don't use the word poly for non-monogamy, but whatever word you use, you might need different ones to describe what some folks once had an idea of when the term "poly" began being slung around. Now this is just my experience, and not the end all be all and I won't even attempt to subtly have that come about after plausibly denying it by using a gang of internet buddies and anonymous sock puppets accounts to slaughter an authors review.

but.... some poly people are sort of insane Utopian types, and the few unicorns hunters that bagged the horned horse that I've witnessed, when the sexual triad didn't work out, there is still the three of them that by appearance you'd think they were all having sex, except for either two women or two men either aren't bi- or they are but just aren't into sexual relationships with every single bi- or gay member of the same sex.

So it ends up without the devastated unicorn, and instead two guys and a girl doing just about everything together except the two guys do not engage in sex, or threesomes or two women and one guy who are a triad in every way except for threesome sex.

I never associated poly people with the type who didn't genuinely like their partner's partners. Many of them are some seriously fun-loving and peculiar people.

Everything being openly discussed, is a new phenomena, so even the vocab needs to be worked out and you should feel free to label any behavior anything you want, you could even call casual-just-met-one-night-stand-sex polyamory, as I would be lying if I said no poly people that I know ever engage in that. But they sure as hell would likely be latex barriers between every skin to skin contact other than holding hands, (seriously, literally, whatever name you want to call "safe sex" people take being "fluid bonded" extremely serious)

but remember, that is not a bad thing,

many many people have days or nights during their life when they want to be treated like a set of golf clubs, in fact, they want to be treated like the club that all players of a foursome play 18 holes with and they want to be the only club.

And there is nothing wrong with that when it is done responsibly, which means that all parties involved are of legal age and fully knowledgeable , desire for it to occur and explicitly consent to while of sound mind, free from lies or manipulation

I do understand what you are saying, because many people jump into non-monogamy with the frame of mind we had as children day-dreaming about what it is like to be an adult. And many many problems arise when we engage in adults activities with a child's framed mind (or even an adult framed mind that fails to realize the level of responsibility that is mandatory when you are choosing to exercise certain freedoms, because when we are not responsible, those freedoms are far more costly than anyone ever imagined)

It really does take crazy, loopy, almost Utopian beliefs as the associated cost of behaving in ways that are well within Our Rights, some people refer to them as God Given, and such rights and freedoms we have been gifted come with considerable amont of responsibility.

The "Monkeysphere" *(google it, not referenced here in this post, but this is the only other site I have witnessed this type of bashing "unicorn hunters" other than any site associated with Franklin's Veaux's sites) attitude is a perfect example of that flawed logic. The Truth is, you cannot go through life only having genuine concern for another one to two hundred people tops. Exercising freedoms in such a way will lead to an extremely pathetic population of humans.

I get the point, and yes it's funny or cute, but that attitude will lead to mankinds destruction the same as it shatters the outlooks of HBB Unicorns.

You have a chance to make history, no, you are all making history, just like everyone who lives does simply by living, but this whole idea that people have the courage to break pointless traditions because they truly are doing no harm (at least in regards to non-monogamy and poly) truly is a unique opportunity. I can't think of any other topic that is so new that it doesn't even have standardized vocabulary, in any language.

YOU HAVE TOTAL FREE REIGN, TRUE FREEDOM in regards to these new fangled relationships

nearly every other ANYTHING and EVERYTHING already had a taxonomic clade or naming scheme all but set in stone, but this is your opportunity, so please be careful what you push for, because sexuality is or should be a sacred topic. When I say sacred I mean NOBODY should have the right to ridicule or shame another for their sexuality so long as it is between mutauly consenting adults, of sound mind who desire it and explicitly consent to it when it is done in private.

Respect is the only thing that can substitute for Love when there is none between people. It is always good to be able to not take yourself so seriously, but there is a world of difference between not taking YOURSELF seriously and using humor or disrespect towards others in regards to a topic that they take very seriously, or as a matter of being sacred.

Any matter that demands respect will always be ruined by those who engage in pissing contests, or are insulting indirectly or by being subtle.

Calling a someone a slut when they do not appreciate it is along the same lines of saying faggot, nigger, etc...

Never forget that we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for all the sacrifice of every facet of equal rights, whether it be Race, Gender, Religion, or Sexual orientation, or practice of Love,

Please be mindful of the level of respect you show others, and think about how responsible we might not be being, because it will cost US dearly if we do not live up to it
 
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That post Dirtclustit is such a range of jumbled thinking I just can't be bothered to get my mind around it, what on earth are you trying to say? And is it possible for you to perhaps use one sentence instead of 15 to say it? Your overuse of language and extra hyperbole is very tiresome to read and that is why most people don't respond to you.

Please re-think your tactics if you want to engage in meaningful debate or conversation because right now it appears closer to grandstanding than engaging.

Natja
 
I agree. Dirtclustit, your posts are so often very confusing, rambling, and usually seem quite "off" and unrelated to whatever the topic is. Are you on some medication that does that to you? It is quite impossible to follow your train of thought most of the time. I think you've been told that before. Can you focus a little bit more?
 
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