Don't want to play anymore...:((((

El186

New member
I have been in a V relationship for the last 3 years, having known the primary man a year before that online. I divorced my husband of 30 years who was an abusive asshole and had dreams of killing me, left my 4 grown children and moved across the world, from the States to Europe to be with this man....and his wife. I knew what I was getting into. I was raised as a preacher's daughter and spent my ENTIRE life involved in the evangelical Christian church...and although I was somewhat disillusioned by it all, still held the basic tenets. So i KNEW that according to the "Bible Belt " that I came from that what I was doing would be a "sin" and that I would basically be committing adultery...no better than a whore. But I loved him SO much and felt that we were truly meant to be together and he felt the same and the thoughts of living without him were more than I could bear, so I said yes, when he asked me to move in with him and his consenting wife.

He and his wife lead 2 separate lives, only meeting together at suppertime. He spends every moment with me. His wife agreed that she would not have sex with him, after it became a problem for me....and he agreed as well. She has never been sexual. It was almost something she dreaded and was glad to give away. She also agreed to let him sleep with me...all the time. So he is ALWAYS with me. As I said, they have always lead 2 separate lives.

They have a daughter and a set of twins that the husband seldom spends time with. He is not a "kid person" and so other than occasional kisses good night and helping pull out a chair at the table, he hardly ever has any interaction with them. That is the way it has always been. That has not been affected by my being here. Please don't get me wrong. He loves them dearly. He just does not spend much time with them.

The last 3 years have gone on FAIRLY well, with our fair share of working out details, but overall it has gone pretty good. It seems recently that it is not enough for me. I want it ALL. I SO BADLY want to be MRS XXX. I want to have that respect in the community. I have NO idea what to tell people when they ask WHO I am. I am not his wife....am I a girlfriend?...a mistress? I will have NO coverage should he die. SHE will be covered...his kids will be covered, but I have NO doubt that her parents will see to it that I get NOTHING. THEY hate me...his parents hate me. SHE is invited to all the family functions, but I am not. It was fine as long as they did not know WHO I was, but now that they know...I am the pariah. So out of respect for me, he will not go either.

I have no ring...NOTHING to indicate that I am "taken"...and we have agreed that I am. We have agreed that my heart belongs to him ALONE. That it will never belong to another. He says that he will get me a ring...when the time is right. And he is NOT one to lie. So I WANT to believe him, but he NEVER talks about it...we never look at rings. NOTHING.

I live here...in "our" house. But I have NOTHING in it that I can call mine, but our bedroom. There is NO privacy. I feel like I am always being watched or followed. There is CONSTANT noise from the kids and I am sick with a number of ailments and am 20 years older than he is...so it REALLY takes a toll on me.

With me being SO much older, I feel like my time is limited. I am 53...he is 33. He does not understand when I tell him that I feel like the clock is ticking and that if WE are to have ANY life ALONE together that NOW is the time, while I can still get out and do things and go places and clean.

They married for financial reasons, and because they felt like it was the thing to do...but NOT because they were madly in love and wanted to spend the rest of their lives together. SHE has told me as much..although I am SURE that they have love and concern for each other...much as I love my best friend.

Any time I talk to him about marrying me all I hear him say is "What about (insert HER name)? What about my kids?

I DO NOT understand how it can be THAT big of a deal to give up something that was NOTHING more that a good financial decision and that she so willingly gives away. He SELDOM even TALKS to his kids. At least this way WE...HE AND I could spend some REAL quality time with them and "raise them" together.

But when I press him on the subject all I hear him say is that things are pretty much as good as they are going to get, that MAYBE at some point in a MYSTICAL time and place that he and I could have a life and that I AGREED to this. I AGREED TO IT! I AGREED TO IT!

Sometimes I feel like he is just waiting for her to get SO tired of the situation that SHE will leave...and then he will not feel like he is to blame...SHE made the decision. But that is NEVER going to happen. She is JUST FINE. She has his name, has his kids, has his house and garden, has the respect of the community and she is as happy as a bug in a rug. She can still do whatever she wants. She has NO commitment to make him happy or take care of him...she takes care of the kids. So that is what I do. She does not have to worry about sex, because that is what I do. So....I take care of him....I have sex with him....I am the one that he communicates with and watches movies with and talks to and sleeps with and cannot stand to be without. What does that sound like to you? A FUCKING WIFE! That is what it sounds like to me. But I am not given that most BASIC of respect because it would be financially hard and "what about my kids?" I guess that my 4 (GROWN) kids...in which I was a VITAL part of their lives...were NO sacrifice at all?????

PLEASE...I am angry right now...and I am sure that you can read that. But I do TRULY like his wife. I DO. I LOVE his kids. I DO. I don't want to hurt ANY of them. But all I can figure out is that *I* can hurt everyday of the rest of my life....or they can hurt. And yes....I am selfish. He has made sure to tell me that.

PLEASE PLEASE....can anyone tell me if there is anyway to work this out? Has anyone ever gone through something similar and made it over to the other side...or hell....ever even HEARD of someone that KNEW someone that did it? I feel SO alone. I feel SO guilty. And I am honestly heartbroken. I feel like I NEED him...I WANT him....It DOES matter to me...and it does not matter that much to her...and she will still be the mother of his children and get child support AND alimony. She will have her family. I have NO ONE. I am ALONE with no one but HIM.

It recently became such an issue that I seriously contemplated leaving and going back to the states. I told him that I could go back, but come visit on occasion. That way, I could be with my kids and grandkids and be a part of their lives. That he and I could STILL talk daily online and keep in touch, see each other once or twice a year and that WHEN that magical, mystical time comes....if it ever does..and we could be together, that then we could try it again. And he said no. That if I left that he wanted NOTHING else to do with me. That it would be too painful and that the pain had to stop and that would be the best way to do it. Just cut off ALL communication with one another. I was devastated.

FINALLY....after LITERALLY hours of crying and screaming and talking...he came to me and told me that when we were married that I was NEVER to talk to him in that manner again (and I WAS truly a bitch) ....that I was WRONG for having pushed this at this time...but...(and then he gave me a plastic ring) and said "Will you marry me?" Of course, I said yes...and we held each other for a while and then went out for a walk and he began to mourn the loss of his current life. When I asked him what was wrong he told me he needed time to mourn...and of course...over the next couple of days it has gone right back to where we were. Who wants to get married under THOSE circumstances? He looked like he was going to a funeral. I could not even TELL anyone I knew that he had asked me to marry him because it was SO FUCKING SAD! There was NOTHING happy about the situation and he told me that if I wanted him to be happy about it then, I should have waited until it was "right"?????????

I came here looking for answers...and after reading for a while, I felt some better and told him that I had found the forum and that I felt some better and after having read through a LOT of info on several places that I felt like it MIGHT be better if we had separate places. That I could have one side of the house and she could have the other and that *I* could cook for him and we could ALL get together on occasions together and still be close enough to see each other daily (kid problem solved) and let each other know what was going on and he and I would have some privacy and I would not feel like someone was standing outside the door listening while we made love. And then he said that if we had separate houses that he would have to stay some here in her house with her...and had I thought about that? I thought that I was doing well by taking the "marriage card" off the table....but I guess not. It seems that if I have my own house, then I have to give up the current amount of time that we spend together. Because as long as I am a "guest" here in HER house, then he and I can be together 24/7 and it is ok. WTF? I am so tired of this. I am SO confused. It is getting to the point that I am asking God to just take my life, because I have fucked this one up royally and CANNOT NO MATTER WHAT I DO, fix it.......I am FUCKED anyway I look....

If anyone has bothered to read this to the end (1). God Bless You (2)....Help?
 
Lots of sympathy

Hi El...I'm new here as well and this is the first time I've posted, although I've been reading these forums for several months now. (I promise to post an introduction in the appropriate section soon, guys, but know that I think the people on this forum are aces from reading all your intelligent, compassionate posts.)

I just wanted to say my heart goes out to you. Whether or not you are being selfish, I understand how you feel. It doesn't feel good to be in a committed relationship in which you get no respect from your community or your partner's family. Especially since you moved to another country to be with him! It's not like you have your own social circle to support you there. I hope you've found a few friends there that know your situation and care for you.

It sounds to me like your man is making very little attempt to validate or understand your feelings, and is only thinking of the life he's set up for himself. A lot of narrow-minded people criticize poly as being a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too mind of lifestyle, but in this case...I think it applies. He's not giving you the respect or consideration you deserve in this situation. It sounds like he is treating you like a convenient plaything instead of a living, breathing human being with wants and needs. Why can't he see that you need more space, more respect, and more compassionate understanding from him? From what you said, he seems to argue with you on every point you make, denying every reasonable request with selfish questions intended to instill fear and guilt in you. Example:

"I felt like it MIGHT be better if we had separate places. That I could have one side of the house and she could have the other and that *I* could cook for him and we could ALL get together on occasions together and still be close enough to see each other daily (kid problem solved) and let each other know what was going on and he and I would have some privacy and I would not feel like someone was standing outside the door listening while we made love. And then he said that if we had separate houses that he would have to stay some here in her house with her...and had I thought about that? I thought that I was doing well by taking the "marriage card" off the table....but I guess not. It seems that if I have my own house, then I have to give up the current amount of time that we spend together. Because as long as I am a "guest" here in HER house, then he and I can be together 24/7 and it is ok. WTF?"

That's just not fair...you asked for space and privacy, and his response was basically, "Well then you won't get as much of me, and we will suffer." I just don't understand where this man is coming from.

Another thing - I've been in a situation where I moved away from all my friends and family for a relationship, and I know how isolating that can be. It can make you feel and act crazy, and it can intensify your emotions to a point where you can't always handle them well.

If you wanted my advice, I would say you need a break from this man and his family to gain some perspective on how you want YOUR life to proceed. Perhaps a visit to the States for 3-4 weeks to see your kids and let things calm down a bit. Then you can re-evaluate if this situation is really working for you, and if it's worth the huge amount of compromise and sacrifice you've been giving. It's no good to try to sort through these kinds of issues with this much anger, no privacy, and no escape from the situation. A break might do you some good.

That's my two cents. I really hope you find a way to get to a happier place soon!
 
I'm sorry, I have to disagree with the post so far. It is not disrespectful to explain that if you live in a separate space you can't 'have him' 24/7. First of all, no one should feel as if they own anyone else. That's a big red flag there for me as it is. Honestly the post screams red flags.

You say you knew when you moved there it would be a poly or at least open relationship as he was married. But you asked him to stop having sex with his wife???

Am I mistaken or would you blow a gasket if his wife asked you two to lay off the sex? You can make excuses 'they don't really love each other', 'it's just a marriage of financial convenience', but it's not appropriate. My husband does NOT have veto power over my sex with boyfriend and boyfriend does NOT have veto power over sex with my husband. RED FLAG ONE.

You say he loves his kids but really barely talks to them or does anything with them. He refuses to go to relatives parties or events because they won't include you. Instead of working together, all three of you, it's just more and more pitting one of you against the others. RED FLAG TWO.

You want him, full time. Well, that's not how poly works, I'm sorry. Dividing time is part of having more than one relationship. SO no, it's not rude to say that if you were in another home he'd not see you 24/7. He has a wife! He has kids! Those are responsibilities and relationships he needs to also spend time on. RED FLAG THREE.

You talk of him and you getting married and 'raising' the kids yourselves. Really? You think it's appropriate to cut his wife out of not only his life but his kids so you can have a husband all to yourself and his kids? RED FLAG FOUR.




Read around, there are poly terms in place here. One is called the 'cowgirl'. You've entered a situation that is poly and have decided it doesn't work for you. I'm sorry, I really am, it's a really hard thing. Poly, is a lot of work, and compromise, and balancing of time and energies among your relationships. However, it is NOT appropriate for you to decide that since it's not working FOR YOU, that you need to pull this man away from his family, marry you so you can 'take care of him' (RED FLAG FIVE), and start over. That sounds horribly like the mistress syndrome. You want to stop being the mistress and be the wife. A monogamous wife.

So what happens if he does all this? Leaves his wife, marries you, big white wedding, your taking care of him and his kids, ex sees the kids on weekends, happy little family! Then give it a few years and he falls for someone else (not instead of you but as well as you) and he wants to have another relationship IN ADDITION to yours?

I get that you are upset, horribly and no I don't think, personally, that he's handling things well, but none of you are. Get a meeting with all three of you, STAT. Find out where you all stand, what you all want and how to make it work for you all. Compromises all around. OR, if you want monogamy, the wedding, the ring, the whole white picket fence thing, move on.

Some of us are married and poly, but I am betting, and I'll take odds, that not one of us would veto sex with any of our partners because they other said so! The idea of poly is NOT to have someone on the side that would make a good partner when we are ready to leave the partner we are with now.
 
well, i mean essentially you 'forced' him to ask you to marry him-to give up and walk out on his wife and kids-that wasn't part of your relationship agreement when you moved to him, was it? I am, frankly, surprised that he agreed. I don't think most people would.

as for understanding his viewpoint...I can't. I was involved for nearly 8 yrs with a married man who swore he loved me, told me i was the only good thing in his unhappy life and that he hoped we would never part ways. That was the last time i heard from him...8 months ago. He and his wife haven't had sex in about 5 years now...she didn't keep up her end of their financial marriage agreement...but whatever she has, he obviously prefers it to what i offer. Your man wants, for whatever reason, to stay with his wife as well.

imho, you are asking your man to re-negotiate your contract after it has been signed, too. you went to him as a poly and now you want him to leave his family and become mono with you. Poly is HARD under the best of circumstances-its nature engenders jealousy and insecurity. It is sharing on the most elemental level-not everyone, including me, can do that.

I don't mean to sound harsh but i think you saw him as your knight in shining armor that would rescue you. well, to an extent, he did...and now you have to pay the price for that. It may be too dear for you. I don't know you and would never presume I know more than what is posted but like Vixtoria said, this isn't a poly attitude you are showing and I doubt youwill find success with this family until you accept the limitations of the situation and learn to work within the framework of this family.

And, no, you probably never will be welcomed by their families...most people don't understand or approve of a poly lifestyle.
 
reply to livinglight 11

Thank you so much, livinglight 11. I appreciate your response. In all fairness, I AM writing thru emotions...and I know that they have a tendency to color a situation. He really is a wonderful man. He has tried to give me everything I want and to accommodate me at every turn when possible. And she has too. They have BOTH been more than kind. He has bought me a new fridge (for the house of course, but still...the kind I liked) a new car, he took me to Amsterdam....I mean, really...all I have to do is say I wish I had a green unicorn with a pink horn and if there was anyway possible, he would find one and have it special ordered for me. He takes EVERYTHING I say into consideration generally....except for this. And when it comes to this...there is NO swaying him. I have NO friends here, with the exception of the wife. It is a non english speaking country and those that can speak english well enough to communicate with can be hard to find. So yes, it really MAKES me rely TOTALLY on him. I know that is part of the problem. I miss my kids terribly...and my grandkids. But truth be told...they were part of the problem at home...always taking from me...and never giving. So while I DO miss them, I also remember what it is like to be in the center of that hub. That being said, it WAS and IS a great sacrifice for me and I DO wish I could see them more...especially on the Holidays.

When I first came here....it was with the consideration that the two of them would still be sexual...I knew that. And I always figured they were, but after I had been here about a year, he and I had gone to the store and had had a wonderful time together and we came back to unload the car. It was then that I heard them. They did not realize that anything that went on upstairs in a certain room could be heard by all downstairs. I just sat there and cried and cried. I cried literally for days. I thought I was going to die. I did not understand WHY he would do that...leave me downstairs unloading the car after we had just been together talking about OUR life together to go grab her and have sex with her. It was TRULY the most painful thing I have ever endured in my life. After a couple of days of tears, we ALL agreed that although I had come here saying that it was ok, that THAT was off the table now. And there would be no more sex between them. And as I said, I am sure that is not a big deal to her. She has told me that she just does not enjoy sex. So fine....I do.

When I first came here he did not sleep in the bed with me at all. It was an odd situation and we had to move and get a bed for me...and blahblahblah...but finally I told him how painful it was for me that he never slept with me and that I stayed up all night just praying for daylight so that I could be with him again. And so he talked to her and we decided to divide it up equally...and that was better...then I only stayed awake half the time. But then she went on vacation for 3 weeks and I had him all to myself...and I cried and cried, thinking of her coming back and not being able to sleep with him anymore and when she returned, she said that she did not want me to cry and be alone and that it was fine with her if he slept with me all the time. I could not believe it. She is really a much kinder and more well rounded woman than I ever will be I guess.

She REALLY does not ask for much....at all....and so I KNOW he hates to ask more of her and he says that she has been good to him and kind to him and that he does not want to hurt her. I understand that. But does that mean that it is ok for ME to hurt so that she doesn't have to?

I am SOOOOOO confused and feel SOOOO guilty on SOOOOO many levels. I TRULY do not want to hurt her either. She is my only friend here. I DON'T want to leave their kids without a father....:( I don't know what to do. I feel like my only options are to live with it the way that it is and hurt everyday of my life while I continue to lie to my family...or leave him and the life that we have and could have forever behind. NEITHER answer sounds do-able. I feel trapped and condemned anyway I go. There is NO right answer. Any way you look at it, someone is going to get hurt.
 
To Pollyanna and Vixtoria...

Yes...I KNOW that it is not a poly viewpoint. I understand that. I KNOW that what I am asking for was NOT what we agreed to. I do not know WHAT has happened that has caused me to react this way, but whatever it is, it seems to be getting worse. I realize that perhaps this is NOT the lifestyle for me. i THOUGHT that I could do it....but as time has gone on, it seems to be getting harder...NOT easier.

I don't need to know that what I am talking about is not a poly attitude....or such...i KNOW that. What I need to know is...do you know of anyone or you yourself that has been in a similar situation and has made it work? And if so, how? I don't know HOW to change these attitudes and feelings that I am having. Am I wasting my time here? I am not sure I will ever be able to do it.

He has always told me that he loved me and would never lose me. That IF it ever came down to it, that he would choose to be monogamous with me rather than lose me, but when I finally said "I cannot do this anymore"...then he said the decision was mine. And only after I started to make arrangements to leave, did he "ask me to marry him". I am not sure that I am made of the stuff I need to be made of to continue in a poly relationship. Is there something I can read....something that someone else has done or used to get them through a hard time?

Please understand...I am not criticizing the lifestyle...I just don't know how to live it. I NEED some space and some privacy.
 
To Pollyanna and Vixtoria...

I don't need to know that what I am talking about is not a poly attitude....or such...i KNOW that. What I need to know is...do you know of anyone or you yourself that has been in a similar situation and has made it work? And if so, how? I don't know HOW to change these attitudes and feelings that I am having. Am I wasting my time here? I am not sure I will ever be able to do it.


There's lots that I could say about how you start to work on those inner feelings, because it's not something HE needs to fix but you. YOU need to think about why you feel certain ways and get to the root of it. Mono or poly there is something wrong with crying for days because your partner can't sleep with you in your bed every single night.

However, I will answer the questions above. On another list I am on, yes, it has happened. A woman was the 'third'. She came to a man who was married, told her he loved her and that his marriage was not as full of the 'love' that the two shared. That when it came to it, he would choose her, that he loved her and could not lose her. He did leave his wife. He did marry her.

Not six months later she was back on the list all upset because he found another woman to date. He told this new woman that he loved her. That his marriage didn't have the same kind of 'love'. She had now been raising his kids with his wife that he left and their new child together. She was upset, he was choosing the new woman over her. It wasn't fair, she now wanted him to be mono with just her. That did not work. As far as I know, the last we heard from her, she left. Leaving behind the children she had been raising, taking her child with her, and now believing poly to be evil. And/or him to have never been poly at all.
 
when i met my dh, he was married to someone else. She was NOT poly and was forced into a bad situation. Either accept a somewhat poly lifestyle or lose her husband altogether. He loved me altho he was willing to honor his commitments to her. I mean we didn't plan to fall in love--shit happens.

anyway...i found out real quick that I have trouble sharing. It was hard. We went thru some awful moments. She jealously guarded their time together and I always wanted more. As 'second wife', I always felt like i got slighted. In the end, she actually tried to murder him because if she had to share him, then neither of them was going to live. So, no...that didn't end well.

I have been in the alternative lifestyle with many poly friends for several years. Other than us, I really don't know any one who has left their spouse in favor of the second. Generally speaking, the third usually (at least in my experience) eventually moves on to a more monogamous relationship with one significant other. Again, just my experience.

I doubt you can really expect him not to have relations with his wife, regardless of what they say. They Do have sex and they will feel entitled to continue to have sex and I don't know how you can 'fix' those feelings. It's how you feel and hearts, unfortunately, don't listen to any kind of sense. I wish they did!

I think I would try to tread lightly and try to open communication rather than cry and pout and demand. If you show yourself to be a problem, you may be shown the door. I'm not saying let them walk over you, i'm just saying try diplomacy rather than demanding.

I'm not banging on ya, honey, really I'm not. I have cried for days over men myself...all the while loathing myself for doing it. All my crazy jealousy is why we have a MWM triad and NOT a WMW. I ain't that damn generous or understanding.
 
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Reply to Polyanna

So are the three of you still together? And if so, for how long? awww....I see that you are not...sorry...I did not see the rest of your post. In anycase, TY so much for your kindness and understanding. I really AM just trying to figure it out and see what I CAN and CANNOT live with. All I know, is that it is VERY painful....and I am SO glad you found something that works for you. I wish you the best of luck...and again....thank you.
 
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I think you really need to do some soul searching and figure out why you're feeling the way that you're feeling.

You ask if it's fair for you to hurt to stop her from hurting? As far as I can tell, the wife has made all of the compromises whilst (apart from the initial moving there) you don't seem to have made any.

For example, the situation with them having sex whilst you unloaded the car. Was it insensitive? To leave you doing work and run off to have sex whilst you were in earshot? Yes. Did it mean they should never have sex again? No. You could have come up with a compromise, like 'no sex when I'm in ear shot'. You instead when for an absolute that leaves nothing for the wife to work with.

You seem to have at least tried to compromise with the sleeping together thing, but then needed to have him every night. Leaving no time for the wife. Even if she doesn't like sex, I find it difficult to imagine that she didn't take some comfort in sharing a bed with a comforting, familiar presence. Now that is gone. Completely.

I agree with Vixtoria. I think your problems are stemmed deeper than just poly. I would consider it very unhealthy for someone to stay up all night crying because their partner wasn't with them even in a monogamous relationship.

I live with one of my partners and he doesn't always sleep well, and often he just wants to stay up late playing computer games. Do I enjoy him sleeping next me? Yes. Do I prefer it that way? Yes. Do I lose sleep over it? No.

It is unhealthy in any relationship to not be able to be away from your partner. If possible I would suggest seeing someone about it. I know that's difficult where you with the language barrier, but it's possible (especially as some people are happy to do it via Skype or something similar). I think before you can figure out how to be with him, you probably need to learn how to be with YOURSELF. Learn to function on your own and not need to always be with someone, you never know, if you can learn to do that, the whole situation might seem more amenable to you.

I wish you luck.
 
I live with one of my partners and he doesn't always sleep well, and often he just wants to stay up late playing computer games. Do I enjoy him sleeping next me? Yes. Do I prefer it that way? Yes. Do I lose sleep over it? No.

It is unhealthy in any relationship to not be able to be away from your partner. If possible I would suggest seeing someone about it. I know that's difficult where you with the language barrier, but it's possible (especially as some people are happy to do it via Skype or something similar). I think before you can figure out how to be with him, you probably need to learn how to be with YOURSELF. Learn to function on your own and not need to always be with someone, you never know, if you can learn to do that, the whole situation might seem more amenable to you.

I wish you luck.
I don't think it's a true comparison--it's very different when your SO is with someone else. I am not saying the reaction wasn't a bit over the top but sometimes sharing is very painful--when I embarked on this folly with dh and his former, I had just had surgery and he was unavailable to me when I felt I needed him because he was with 'HER'.

I do agree with the fact the you must be happy with yourself before you can be happy with someone else. Leaving a 30 year relationship is HUGE and you didn't have any time to rebound before you entered into this situation. I think there has to be some deep emotional dreck you need to work through that doesn't concern your new family. And I'm sure you will.

And let me add this...not to be cruel at all because you and I are the same age. Is the age difference a problem? Coz I think I would not have much in common with someone 20 years my junior and when you are 70 he will only be 50. I don't want people thinking my partner is my son. You are both certainly at very different stages of life.
 
The way I see your situation is that you are monogamous and that you want the typical white picket fence dream. He's been very clear that he's unable (or unwilling) to give that to you. So you have a decision to make, either stay with him and find it within yourself to truly accept that he has a real and meaningful relationship with his wife (even if it is very different than your relationship with him). Or you can move on and find a partner who is willing and able to give you their all. Neither of these decisions are easy and neither give you exactly what you want but that's the reality of life.
 
I was in therapy for a bit....but my therapist retired and now I am looking for another. It is EXTREMELY hard for me to find a therapists or physicians that I can relate to, as many/most of them do not speak english. I was seeing the therapist for chronic pain issues. I have several painful, debilitating diseases and needed to see him for those reasons. I had not even TOUCHED on the whole poly thing or the fact that I spent 30 years in an abusive relationship...although I am seeing more and more that I need to talk to someone if I plan to stay in this relationship.

There are a couple of points that I need to clear up. I did not say that I stayed up all night crying because he was not in bed with me. I stayed UP all night and could not sleep. I know they are both prolly not good...but I was not crying all night and Pollyanna was right, there is a difference between him just being gone and between him being in her bed...there are many times now that he will stay up...usually playing computer games and while I wish he was with me, I certainly am not crying myself to sleep. It is hard for me to sleep without him, but I WILL. I did not ASK wife for that at ALL...and in fact had NEVER told her that I stayed up on the nights that he slept with her. I don't know if HE told her that I was worried about it while she was on vacation or what, but she came home and OFFERED it...without me asking or telling her about it an anyway. She just said that she knew I would hate to go back to sleeping half the time without him and that she was ok with him sleeping with me all the time. And I was grateful for that. She has REALLY been wonderful and I know that I am the problem in all this. I feel really bad about it, but I cannot help the way I feel.

As far as taking the kids if we married....I guess I wrote that wrong. What I meant was that when we DID have them that WE could "raise them" during that day or weekend or whatever...so I was never ever planning on taking them from their mother to have a perfect little family of my own. Been there done that. And really neither one of us are good with kids...so a weekend every now and then would be PLENTY!

As far as concessions, Josie, I have made some....but you are right. They have been few. One has been the house. I would love to have a house. But I have agreed to let that be her thing. We currently live in one large house and it is big enough that it could be divided into two smaller houses. Wife's main thing is that he be there for supper each evening...perhaps we could make some kind of arrangement that he could eat suppers with her at her side of the house and most of the rest of the time with me...as it IS that way now and she is fine with it??...idk....I am really NEEDING the quiet and the privacy. The kids are young and run screaming thru the house all day...this does not include all the time SHE screams at them. It is hard for me to sleep, as both he and I are daysleepers. And the constant chaos is not good for the ailments that I have. So I thought that some separation and privacy would be good for us. I have asked for my own apartment and he says that he cannot afford that, plus he did not want to physically be away from her and the kids like that and yet did not want me to be left alone either. I think this would be a perfect solution, but when I asked him about it, he did not seem amenable to it...as I was thinking that I would be able to cook for him too...and supper is her thing...:/....so maybe some compromise on that would work a little better....idk...

Polyanna...as far as the age difference goes....it means ALMOST nothing to me. Gee...it is not NEAR....NEAR as hard to handle as the polyamory thing. I could care less if people think he is my son. I used to look pretty good for my age, but since I have stopped dying my hair I think I look much older. But you just kind of know that going into it...that some people are going to think he is your son. So it does not bother me too much. As far as having things in common...we have TONS of things in common. I am not sure if he is OLDER or I am YOUNGER....LOL But THAT works quite well. No problems there. I have and DO often think about him being 50 and me being 70 and I think that is PART of what drives me to want to have a single lone relationship with him. I have just started menopause and I know....my body is aging fast. I was a nurse for almost 20 years...I KNOW what my illnesses do to a body. I KNOW my time is limited. I know that MAYBE I will have another 15 years and then....idk. I want every MOMENT to be spent with him enjoying what little bit of life I have left. I am not sure I can spend it like this. I am just not sure...and not sure what to do about it.
 
That was a lot. :( I hope you feel better for the vent.

How about trying again now that you are a bit calmer to organize your thoughts into the buckets? Just... identify and sort into buckets?

Here are the 7 dimensions of wellness. I am not going to ID all of them out of your post for you. I am just putting a few that resonated in there for examples, ok?

You could fill out the rest on paper for yourself to begin to get a handle on things.


my physical health
-- concern for aging, menopause
-- care in old age? age difference between you?

my mental health
-- stress, worries for future
-- lost my therapist, seeking new
-- healing from abusive husband (maybe not totally healed?)

my emotional health (processing feelings appropriately)
--emotional flooding
--yelling at the partner, anger
--sadness, missing family in the states
--huge blow up vent. how long was this stuffed down/in?

environmental health (psychological and physical environment)
-- loud with kids. Would like quieter living space. (physical space issue)
-- I live in "her" house. I have no space of "my own." (Psychological space issue)

financial/occupational health
--old age/health bills?

social health
--cannot speak language. Lonely for other people, kinda "shut in" sounding
-- "inlaw" problems
-- struggling with polyship roles of each player, expectations of each player

spiritual health
-- ??? <---- glaringly absent. No examples of community worship, justice/volunteering to do for others in the community, creative outlets (dance, song, paint), body practices (yoga, hike, meditate), spiritual friendships to have "baring of the soul" conversations with, nothing! Are you bone dry? :( What gives you the joie de vivre? What feeds your soul?


After you have enough of them identified and organized, then you could go back and assign each a value and would it would take to solve.
What's easy to solve in in less than 1 mos? In 3 mos? 6 mos? 9 mos? 12 mos?

Do you have an two-fer things?

Like would a visit to your stateside family help give you points in the mental wellness bucket (away from noise of Europe family) and points in the social wellness bucket (alleviate missing relatives stateside)? If your finances allow -- you could arrange this ASAP.

Right now to me you sound like you don't feel "valued" and you want it to be demonstrated with a) most of the time spent with me, b) sex with me only c) follow through on some long term promises with me. (marriage, housing issue)

Right now you also sound like you want more "take control of my life" and like you feel it is out of your control and in disarray somehow.

Well... could take it one thing at a time and tend to your various wellness buckets so you can be at peace and ok in yourself.

Galagirl
 
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Cowgirl comes to mind.

But-in the interest of not-derailing the thread:

My advice is, figure out what you need to have some privacy first.
Seriously, I am in a V, as the hinge. My boyfriend and my husband are both straight and NOT interested in sharing me beyond the acceptance that I love both of them. We live together. At one point, with 5 kids.

BUT WE HAVE ALWAYS made a point of ensuring everyone has privacy and personal space and personal time alone. It is an imperative for sanity.


So, figure out what YOU need to change so that YOU can get YOUR needs met YOURSELF.
Stop focusing on THEM, HIM, HER etc-and focus on what YOU CAN DO TO CHANGE YOURSELF so that YOU are meeting YOUR needs.

After you figure that out-then you might be clear headed enough to address the rest of the situation.

Finally-at no point is it acceptable or reasonable for you to pressure him to leave his partner-REGARDLESS of what YOUR opinion is of their relationship. That is NOT your relationship or your business.
 
Galagirl....thank you so much for that. Especially for taking the time to write all that out to try to help. It means a lot to me...and yes, it was a long vent....funny thing is I had to shorten it TWICE just to get it to post! I am not familar with using buckets or points as you were talking about. I will read the info from the website you gave me, but just skimming over it, I did not find anything about putting those things into buckets and/or assigning a point value. Is that something that you have figured out yourself? Or is there another place that I can look at to get a better idea of how to categorize things or assign a value?....some examples of peoples problems and how they used the "system" to sort things out.

LovingRadiance....thanks too. That is twice today that I have been called a cowgirl. I had to look thru all the definitions to find it. I may be....at this point in time, I am not too certain of anything. All I know is, that if I AM, I did not go into it intending to be. I really meant to make it work. But not ever having attempted anything like this before, I may have underestimated how difficult it could be and now find myself either unwilling or unable to make it work.

I guess if I am to depend on MYSELF for my OWN happiness and to do what I need to do to make that happen, then I need to take any response from him out of the picture. Basically telling myself to accept it the way it is, find a way within myself to "like" it or get out of it and start over. Am I understanding that correctly?
 
I guess if I am to depend on MYSELF for my OWN happiness and to do what I need to do to make that happen, then I need to take any response from him out of the picture. Basically telling myself to accept it the way it is, find a way within myself to "like" it or get out of it and start over. Am I understanding that correctly?

Having been in similar (not the cowgirl part but the isolation, lack of space, no privacy, missing my child etc) circumstances that was the choice I needed to make and at the end I left. BEST choice I ever made, my life made an 180 degree turn, my physical, mental and emotional health came right back and since then one of the two most happiest events of my life has happened.
Don't let yourself be a victim of the relationship you are in, you can't change him, but you can change you!!!

Despite my cynicism and my general sarcasm, I am a very happy woman, I am not disillusioned with Poly, I just made some very bad choices for my wellbeing but that does not mean I needed to suffer with them for the rest of my days!!!!!!!!!!! :D
 
ok, i'll bite...what's a cowgirl?

i don't think you have to just 'accept it the way it is'. any relationship should include communication with all parties being free to express their opinions and needs to the others. Part of the issue here, imo, is the way you are expressing your needs. Histrionics and demanding he leave his family really isn't, imo, fair. It's not like you got to that country and then he told you 'oh, btw, i have a wife and kids'.

Being a member of a poly family doesn't give anyone license to be a (for want of a better word) 'homewrecker'. Maybe this really isn't the lifestyle for you. It's difficult, even when you're in the catbird seat-as a hinge, it is my job to help faciliate smooth and happy relationships and harmony within our family. Hard enough to do with one partner, much less with multiples.

You Do need to find peace and happiness from within you-no other person can make you happy if you are not. But there IS happiness that comes from our surroundings and the people with whom we live. But I think you have to give happiness...compromise...and sometimes, yes, just suck it up...to your significant others-him and her. Family time is important to their children. Dinner together is also important to you so there has to be some compromise there. Maybe he eats dinner with you 2 nights a week and you don't complain the other 5. Maybe you pack him a lunch and picnic with him a couple times a week. You can put on your thinking cap and figure something out.

It is my experience that when you give someone an ultimatum, they almost never choose the option YOU want them to...and if they do, it doesn't last for long. Nobody likes to be pushed.
 
Having been in similar (not the cowgirl part but the isolation, lack of space, no privacy, missing my child etc) circumstances that was the choice I needed to make and at the end I left. BEST choice I ever made, my life made an 180 degree turn, my physical, mental and emotional health came right back and since then one of the two most happiest events of my life has happened.
Don't let yourself be a victim of the relationship you are in, you can't change him, but you can change you!!!

Despite my cynicism and my general sarcasm, I am a very happy woman, I am not disillusioned with Poly, I just made some very bad choices for my wellbeing but that does not mean I needed to suffer with them for the rest of my days!!!!!!!!!!! :D
very well said. :)
 
by the way, i think you were TERRIBLY BRAVE to even attempt this in a foreign country away from friends and family and all that you knew. I don't think I could have.
 
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