Am I being unreasonable?

leelee22

New member
So, a few days ago I posted a self-pitying little rant about how I'm on the verge of dying of involuntary celibacy... and Magdlyn [sp?] told me to smarten up/chin up (thanks... I needed that!). Less than a day later, I was being aggressively pursued via email by a woman in an open marriage as a potential secondary partner for her partner. (lesson: be careful what you wish for). This couple are complete strangers to me. She found me through another polyamory site/group (not a dating site). Her second email to me closed with "I'm going to be out TONIGHT, why don't you and my boyfriend meet up?"

A bit precipitous for me! I didn't go meet the boyfriend, but I did phone him, as she had suggested. They both seem perfectly nice, he is attractive, etc. But when discussing how they “do this” i.e. the open relationship, it was the same old story as with my former lover: secondary partners are really just sex partners, and anything “romantic” (which would include the man and the secondary going out for drinks or dinner and not having sex) is not allowed. There is a new twist with this couple: while the woman is “not really bisexual” (same as me, I’d describe myself as not REALLY bisexual), the couple try to mostly “hang out all together” with secondary partners, and limit the time either one of them spends alone with any secondary partner. The purpose of this seems to be to preclude a “romance” between them and their secondaries, rather than to create an actual triad with a relationship between the two (straight) women.

Well. Sigh.

Is this the way all this usually works??? Or is it just my luck? Because it’s not what I want.

Because I’m mostly straight, I’m not looking for a true triad. I am looking for a “v”. I would be very open to friendly communication with the woman at the other arm of the “v”, and to spending occasional social time with the couple. But I don’t want to be a couple’s tag-along sexual playmate!

What I WOULD like is to have a self-contained, emotionally UNRESTRICTED relationship with a male hinge (I don’t care if his paramour is a man or a woman). Fully disclosed to his other partner, conducted in good faith, with the goal of not detracting in any way from their relationship.

Is this something that doesn’t exist, or is not possible? This man (the woman’s partner who I talked to on the phone) seemed to think that it’s a totally unreasonable expectation. Is he right?
 
No, it isn't supposed to or usually meant to work that way! There are all kinds of predators and selfish people out there, and especially sex-focused people who claim they are poly when they really only want to get their rocks off. That's why it's so important to establish your boundaries and know what you will and will not accept. Then next time someone like that approaches you, you will confidently tell them to fuck off (or, if you say things more nicely than I do, "please look elsewhere") because you are secure in knowing that they don't or won't meet your standards.

What they proposed to you just isn't polyamory. When all a couple wants is a living breathing sex toy, it's an open relationship or swinging - NOT poly, which is about developing multiple meaningful and loving relationships. Friends with benefits is okay, too, considering that friendship is a loving relationship, IF the people do cultivate that side and not say FWB when they really mean fuck buddies.

What you want is what most solo poly people want, and it is definitely NOT unreasonable nor impossible. There are plenty of truly poly people out there who can meet that for you - it just takes sifting out the idiots who only want sex and hear about poly in the media, see how much attention is given to the sexual aspect of poly relationships, and so they incorrectly think that no-strings fucking around is what it's all about. May take a while to find the right partner(s) but you stick to it and you will get there! Never compromise your integrity. You don't want to find yourself used as a toy!
 
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I can let you know that it does exist. Primal is a hinge between myself and Lamian. He and I get time only for sexual intimacy, we go on dates, we get to have the romantic stuff as well as the sexual stuff. People in our personal (and his and Lamian's family) life know that I am his girlfriend. It can happen, not every female wants their boyfriend/husband to only have a sex toy.

ETA: Also have a little confusion. You mentioned that she was in an open marriage and wanted you to meet her boyfriend. So does that mean that she has a husband and a boyfriend (therefore allows herself to be poly) but only wants her boyfriend to have women he can fuck and not develop a relationship with?
 
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Because I’m mostly straight, I’m not looking for a true triad. I am looking for a “v”. I would be very open to friendly communication with the woman at the other arm of the “v”, and to spending occasional social time with the couple. But I don’t want to be a couple’s tag-along sexual playmate!

What I WOULD like is to have a self-contained, emotionally UNRESTRICTED relationship with a male hinge (I don’t care if his paramour is a man or a woman). Fully disclosed to his other partner, conducted in good faith, with the goal of not detracting in any way from their relationship.

Is this something that doesn’t exist, or is not possible? This man (the woman’s partner who I talked to on the phone) seemed to think that it’s a totally unreasonable expectation. Is he right?

Not unreasonable. It is the situation I'm in now, and the only logical thing to do, for me. I'm the wife, my husband has a girlfriend who he is head over heals in love with (so cute!), and her and I get along great as just friends.

I do think it is important that me and anyone else get along, because I cannot imagine not knowing or being able to hang out with someone who is that important to my husband. But it has nothing to do with controlling or limiting feelings!
 
Leelee, i don't understand. If you're sooooo hoooorny, then MASTURBATE for crying out loud! Buy yourself some nice dildos or butt plugs that don't already have an owner like these men whose female partners pimp them out and allow you to borrow their dicks sometimes. Truth is, it sounds like YOU are the one who wants a "living breating sex toy". Otherwise, you wouldn't be thinking with your pussy or clitoris or G-spot or whatever body part women think with when they are too obsessed with getting laid to use their brain for its intended purpose.

tl;dr Yes, you are being unreasonable, but not in the way you think you are.
 
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No leelee it is not normal.

I am the hinge between my husband Butch and my boyfriend Murf.

Murf is not a human dildo for me only brought out for my sexual gratification. I love that man as much as Butch. We go do things together like a normal couple.

Murf and Butch have really no contact unless Murf is spending the night here. They make small talk and that is about it.

Neither comes second to the other.
 
Not unreasonable. It is the situation I'm in now, and the only logical thing to do, for me. I'm the wife, my husband has a girlfriend who he is head over heals in love with (so cute!), and her and I get along great as just friends.

I do think it is important that me and anyone else get along, because I cannot imagine not knowing or being able to hang out with someone who is that important to my husband. But it has nothing to do with controlling or limiting feelings!

Yeah n's lady and I are really close and sometimes we hang out more than they do lol
 
I'm sorry leelee, i re read my last post when i went to correct something in it, and what i should have explained (which i am doing now instead of editing the other post) is that it doesn't make sense for you to be engaging these people who are straightforward about wanting "just sex, no emotional involvement" and then wondering why you can't "spend time with" the guy. It's like you're going shopping for an electric weed-whacker, but the salesperson only shows you gas-powered lawnmowers, you say "o-ok... I'll give it a try", and you get it home, can't use it, and go on the manufacturer's website to complain about how their gas-powered lawnmowers don't have a cord to plug into an electrical outlet!

A gas-powered lawnmower is a gas-powered lawnmower, no matter how much you want it to be an electrically-powered weed-whacker! If you want an electrically-powered weed-whacker, go buy an electrically-powered weed-whacker! The salesperson doesn't care what you WANT, they are just there to sell you their product and make a commission!

tl;dr. Just because a stranger on the internet emails you out of nowhere bugging you to fuck her husband or boyfriend OMG RIGHT NAO TONITE!!!!!!!!11!!~ doesn't mean you HAVE to answer, let alone complain about why they don't want a "self-contained, emotionally UNRESTRICTED relationship with a male hinge".
 
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Leelee.. Since you are straight with heteroflexible leanings are you really looking for a poly relationship? Meaning are you looking for more than one partner (ie being the hinge) or are you just looking to be an arm of a vee.The reason I ask is if you are looking at just being and arm why?

My bf was not looking to get involved in a vee. We met and he fell for me and I for him. The only reason he is here is because he loves me. If he had his way he would prefer if I wasn't married. He doesn't hate my husband or etc. My husband is wired weird so he is ok if his life is a bit cuckoldish he actually enjoys it.

This is just a hard road to travel and we actually have it easier than some vees. For example the busy body neighbor who went out of her way to tell my husband that I was "cheating" on him since she saw my boyfriend leaving the house and me hug and kiss him good bye. I wish I was there to see the look on her face when my husband replied with "That is my wife's boyfriend."
 
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Is this something that doesn’t exist, or is not possible? This man (the woman’s partner who I talked to on the phone) seemed to think that it’s a totally unreasonable expectation.

Grrrr, someone needs a good cyber slappin! Just point their ignorant arses in our direction ok?

:mad:
 
Hi all, and thanks... I glad to hear I'm not being unreasonable, because what i'm asking for doesn't FEEL unreasonable to me.

Dagferi, yes, I want to be one arm of a v. Maybe that does make me "not really poly", but I don't think so. It's just practical for me, because i have limited time (single mom with busy job). I don't think I could do more than one partner justice and give them proper attention, and I don't really crave more than one partner.

The other reason I want to be part of a v is that I was once married to a husband who had repeated affairs. Neighbours, friends etc were constantly "revealing" them to me (often, taking wicked pleasure in my reaction). It was a shitty situation. I don't want to be cheated on and lied to anymore. I figure that if I seek out poly partners, then it's less likely that I'll wind up with a cheating liar.

and, BoringGuy, well... don't know what to say to all that stuff except, of course i masturbate.:) If that was all I needed, then life would be pretty easy. But I didn't seek out this couple; she contacted ME. Not sure how I'm supposed to know what a couple wants unless I ask them... and that's all I did -- I asked him.

anyway, glad to hear I'm not looking for something that doesn't exist. Hopefully I'll get better at spotting the assholes at an earlier and earlier stage.
 
They both seem perfectly nice, he is attractive, etc. But when discussing how they “do this” i.e. the open relationship, it was the same old story as with my former lover: secondary partners are really just sex partners, and anything “romantic” (which would include the man and the secondary going out for drinks or dinner and not having sex) is not allowed. There is a new twist with this couple: while the woman is “not really bisexual” (same as me, I’d describe myself as not REALLY bisexual), the couple try to mostly “hang out all together” with secondary partners, and limit the time either one of them spends alone with any secondary partner. The purpose of this seems to be to preclude a “romance” between them and their secondaries, rather than to create an actual triad with a relationship between the two (straight) women.

EWEWEWEWEWEWEWWwww. Ugh. I hope you don't go for this. What a gross, objectifying, unsatisfying, less-than position to allow yourself to be put into. Don't do it. You deserve better.

What I WOULD like is to have a self-contained, emotionally UNRESTRICTED relationship with a male hinge (I don’t care if his paramour is a man or a woman). Fully disclosed to his other partner, conducted in good faith, with the goal of not detracting in any way from their relationship.

Is this something that doesn’t exist, or is not possible? This man (the woman’s partner who I talked to on the phone) seemed to think that it’s a totally unreasonable expectation. Is he right?

Yes, this exists and is totally possible. My gf's husband has such a relationship with his gf (see sig line for names). Gia and Helen are friends, Eric and Helen have dates just the two of them, he's not sure if he's falling in love with her or not but it's ok if he does. This man, in calling such a scenario unreasonable, is either ignorant of how a lot of poly people conduct their relationships, or is purposefully being manipulative by trying to convince you that you can't have what you want. You can.

Keep looking, stick to your standards, you'll be glad you did once the right situation comes along.

Good luck!!
 
Dagferi, yes, I want to be one arm of a v. Maybe that does make me "not really poly", but I don't think so. It's just practical for me, because i have limited time (single mom with busy job). I don't think I could do more than one partner justice and give them proper attention, and I don't really crave more than one partner.

The other reason I want to be part of a v is that I was once married to a husband who had repeated affairs. Neighbours, friends etc were constantly "revealing" them to me (often, taking wicked pleasure in my reaction). It was a shitty situation. I don't want to be cheated on and lied to anymore. I figure that if I seek out poly partners, then it's less likely that I'll wind up with a cheating liar..

Yet you get upset if you would come second to someone else or the relationship was purely sexual. I do not understand why you would want to put yourself in a situation where you will run across the whole primary/secondary mess. Why not just date an equally busy man.There are plenty of them. I know at least 5 or 6 of Murf's friends who fall under that category.

We have plenty of liars and cheaters amongst the umbrella of poly too. Being poly isn't going to save you from them. Most men are not like your ex husband. Do not judge them all with one brush.

The general public will view you as a disgusting cheater. You will be labeled the other woman unless you are kept as a big dark secret. Unless you are looking for someone with some distance from your home. Most married men even with their wife's full permission are may not to be able to date you locally. They could lose quite a bit if they do. If they have to be on the down low there is no sharing your joys via facebook just in case someone who would have issues would see it. I could go on and on.

The things I have lost since being poly..
  • Family
  • Friends
  • Job

I found out quickly who truly cared for me. It is not an easy road to travel.

The only thing that makes my situation easier than most is my husband is from Chicago and has no ties to this area. And his social network here is the BDSM community and they are open minded folks. Murf grew up here. So we are free to socialize with his friends openly. But we are in the closet to 98% of his family. They would not understand.
 
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Yeah, your logic is a bit flawed. Since you're not interested in having multiple relationships yourself, why shrink your dating pool by limiting yourself to only poly guys who are in relationships? Just date whomever tickles your fancy, whether they are mono or poly. Plenty of mono guys would be content to date casually.
 
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Hi all, and thanks... I glad to hear I'm not being unreasonable, because what i'm asking for doesn't FEEL unreasonable to me.

Dagferi, yes, I want to be one arm of a v. Maybe that does make me "not really poly", but I don't think so. It's just practical for me, because i have limited time (single mom with high-pressure job). I don't think I could do more than one partner justice and give them proper attention, and I don't really crave more than one partner.

The other reason I want to be part of a v is that I was once married to a husband who had repeated affairs (probably 20+ different affairs). Neighbours, friends etc were constantly "revealing" them to me (often, taking wicked pleasure in my reaction). It was a shitty situation. I don't want to be cheated on and lied to ever again. I figure that if I seek out poly partners, then it's less likely that I'll wind up involved with that kind of person again.

and, BoringGuy, well... I was going to say something defensive (other than to remind you I DIDN'T seek out this couple -- they are complete strangers and they contacted me out of the blue) but, actually, to your point, if there were such a thing as male sex workers who offered their services to women (and why the heck aren't there???), I would hire one on a once-a week basis and just give up on trying to meet decent men for the rest of the summer. I can't find out why I only attract the exact kind of people I don't want to attract.

Anyway, glad to hear I'm not looking for something that doesn't exist. Hopefully I'll get better at spotting the players at an earlier and earlier stage.
 
The other reason I want to be part of a v is that I was once married to a husband who had repeated affairs (probably 20+ different affairs). Neighbours, friends etc were constantly "revealing" them to me (often, taking wicked pleasure in my reaction). It was a shitty situation. I don't want to be cheated on and lied to ever again. I figure that if I seek out poly partners, then it's less likely that I'll wind up involved with that kind of person again.



Just a side note, the answer to stop cheating is not poly. Poly people can be cheaters too. Saying that you are in an open relationship doesn't mean there won't be cheating. There are people that aren't open or honest, that aren't going to be respectful of your boundaries or agreements made and will lie. Even if you tell them, "Hey, no rules but tell me. Don't care who you date or fuck, I just want to know." And can't follow that. So don't think that because you decide to be an open relationship or poly there will be NO lying or cheating at all.
 
Nope... :) you're not going to get rid of me so easily.

I don't want "a nice single (non-poly) man for casual dating". For starters, I don't WANT casual dating! I want a serious, loving relationship, just like other people want. I don't have the freedom to move in with anyone or have them move in with me because of a promise I made to my kids. Also, I have less time than is enough for most partners. Not less love to give, just less TIME.

And i don't mind being "secondary" in status to another woman at all. I just want not to be just a sexual plaything. I don't think it's automatically true that to be a secondary, you need to be just a "fuck buddy".

And I think that logically, there IS less cheating in the poly community. To say there isn't is a pretty serious indictment of polyamory. I think it's the reverse: if you are a cheater, you are NOT really part of the poly community. You don't have the moral courage to be. I have met a handful of poly people in real life now, and the thing that impresses me about them is their ethics. they tell me things like "I used to be a cheater, but then I decided i couldn't do that to her anymore, because I love her. So I confessed, and we negotiated this new relationship, and it's harder than cheating, but it's better."

Men who have the balls and the empathy to do that are the pool of partners I intend to choose my beloved from. Even if this board labels me as "not really poly."
 
leelee I'm not saying you're not poly but maybe you are expecting too much from it. The part about wanting an actual relationship and not just sex isn't unreasonable but the part where finding a poly partner means you're going to automatically get x,y,z is.

People who are in open relationships are like any other group of people, some are lousy people, some aren't. You're probably not increasing your odds of finding someone who is looking for the exact type of relationship you are looking for and who will treat you well and respect you. In fact by looking for not just a guy who identifies as poly, but a guy who is already in a primary relationship you are sort of painting yourself with unicorn/third sex partner hunter bait. Obviously that isn't what you are looking for but it probably sounds close enough for you to be attracting them. I guess what I'm trying to say is, listen to NYC. Maybe let go a bit of the poly term and just stick to that description of what you are looking for and what you are looking to give. If someone approaches you with some other idea its easier to say thats not what I'm looking for and not be confused by what you think poly should be not matching what others thing poly should be.
 
Nope... :) you're not going to get rid of me so easily.

I don't want "a nice single (non-poly) man for casual dating". For starters, I don't WANT casual dating! I want a serious, loving relationship, just like other people want. I don't have the freedom to move in with anyone or have them move in with me because of a promise I made to my kids. Also, I have less time than is enough for most partners. Not less love to give, just less TIME.

And i don't mind being "secondary" in status to another woman at all. I just want not to be just a sexual plaything. I don't think it's automatically true that to be a secondary, you need to be just a "fuck buddy".

And I think that logically, there IS less cheating in the poly community. To say there isn't is a pretty serious indictment of polyamory. I think it's the reverse: if you are a cheater, you are NOT really part of the poly community. You don't have the moral courage to be. I have met a handful of poly people in real life now, and the thing that impresses me about them is their ethics. they tell me things like "I used to be a cheater, but then I decided i couldn't do that to her anymore, because I love her. So I confessed, and we negotiated this new relationship, and it's harder than cheating, but it's better."

Men who have the balls and the empathy to do that are the pool of partners I intend to choose my beloved from. Even if this board labels me as "not really poly."

No one is trying to get rid of you..

There are many single men who fit your wants. My boyfriend was one of them. He likes his freedom and he has no urge to move anyone into his house full time. He had a bad experience in the past and at 39 is kind of set in his ways. He says I am the only woman he has dated he would think about changing that with BUT that is because I am like him I understand needing space. Even before I was poly I needed time away from my relationship. Many men like their freedom and do not need to be attached at the hip. My boyfriend's friends keep asking if I have friends like me. (They do not know that I have a husband at home.)

Do some reading here on the forums and around the internet on poly relationship issues. We have as many liars, fibbers, and cheats. Just like the mono world.

My advice is be open to who ever comes your way who fits your life. My concern is labeling yourself as secondary material only will attract those who will not treat you the way you deserve to be treated.

My boyfriend wasn't looking to be involved with married woman. We met he fell hard, and so did I. But this hasn't been easy. But we just click. He is actually more compatible with me than my husband. Yet I need both of them they both bring something different to the table.
 
Because I’m mostly straight, I’m not looking for a true triad. I am looking for a “v”. I would be very open to friendly communication with the woman at the other arm of the “v”, and to spending occasional social time with the couple. But I don’t want to be a couple’s tag-along sexual playmate!

What I WOULD like is to have a self-contained, emotionally UNRESTRICTED relationship with a male hinge (I don’t care if his paramour is a man or a woman). Fully disclosed to his other partner, conducted in good faith, with the goal of not detracting in any way from their relationship.

Is this something that doesn’t exist, or is not possible? This man (the woman’s partner who I talked to on the phone) seemed to think that it’s a totally unreasonable expectation. Is he right?

You want what you want. I don't think it's unreasonable. I don't think it's imaginary. I also believe it may be in the early stages of formation.

The logical deduction about filtering to any specific situation is, of course, that the time it takes to find this situation may be a little more, or some poly logarithm may prove this situation exists less, but i certainly don't think it's hopeless.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting what you want, unless it becomes an unhealthy obsession. Maybe your math tells you that {married poly guy=not going to tie you down} which could be a true statement, and therefore increases your chances of finding what or who you need. It could also though, be that {newly divorced single mono dad who promised his kids no housemates = not going to tie you down}

It's very very common for people taking baby steps to polyhood to have a narrow set of "allowable" love candidates. It's also very very common that those sets of "allowables" evolve over time.

There are days when I feel like I'd date a kangaroo with moles and a horn, so long as they were honest, reliable, loving, and had their shit together, lived close, and I didnt have to teach them the abc's of ethical nonmonogamy. It didn't start out that way though. :)
 
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