Matt's Thoughts

Holy full-circle-city, Batman!

At least you finally came around after your daughter made her feelings known.

Have a good future.

Always on time, BoringGuy. Always on time. I couldn't ignore her feelings. I'm soft when it comes to the kid. Thanks.
 
It probably will be easier working as a team than going it alone. I don't know. I'm used to being at odds with my Mrs. Working with her isn't in my blood. That's going to take work like a job. I need benefits or something out of the deal if I have to work with both of them.

This made me smile knowingly.

I'm glad you are all speaking and considering the best interest of the kids-regardless of the final result-it's a good step from a parental perspective!
 
I've spent most of the day with my Mrs. and the kids. We have a date tonight. It was my week to plan it, so I hope she's up for what I have planned. I've made some special plans for the weekend. She's in the dark about them. Months of work and sneakiness went into planning this weekend. She's surprised that I even remembered our dating anniversary.

My lady's ex called and asked if she could come by on her lunch break to see the kids. I didn't have a problem with it. They were getting ready to eat lunch when she got there, so she joined them. I figured she wanted some time with the kids. I owed my Mrs. a lunch date anyway. The Mrs. and I walked down the street for lunch and left her alone with the kids and nanny. The kid said they had fun. Cool with me.
 
Sounds like things have taken an unexpected turn for the better. It does my heart good to hear that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Glad things are moving toward resolution and better health for all the players in this one.

GL!
Galagirl
 
Heavy thoughts...

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about something. There is something that was mentioned by a mate who works in the family court system. He's aware of the former polyamorous relationship and Snowflake's relationship with my kids. He explained all the ins and outs, the process, and what could and couldn't be included. Warning or friendly suggestion? I'm thinking it's a warning because his words were cryptic. He knows about my Mrs. making plans behind my back, and this is something she could do behind my back. Reason to be concerned much?

In the region we are moving to, the family court has a provision that would allow my wife's ex to have equal parental responsibilities on paper. It's something they used to do for primarily step-parents or other caretakers directly involved in the upbringing of kids, but it is more open now. I'm sure this would delight my Mrs. and her ex. It doesn't help me to know that the application can be done without my consent. These are the same two people who were planning my kids futures without me, so excuse me if my level of trusting is low. Meaning if my Mrs. wanted it to be done and her old ways haven't changed, she could legally do it, and I'd have to legally fight in family court to have it changed back. I don't think she'd do that, but trust isn't where it used to be. It makes me wonder and question how much she's changed.

If approved, the Parenting or Consent Order would grant responsibilities and rights to her and enable us to still be the legal parents of our kids. With this kind of order, Snowflake could legally have a say in the care of the kids, medical treatments, schools they attend, who they can be around, assist in making decisions with the Mrs. and myself regarding the kids, and all parenting responsibilities. If the order has to be amended, it has to be done in family court and on the record. You can include what you want. I know it's probably a half-decent idea, but I don't know. This would be legally binding. Sorry to say, but I think this is bullshit.

Before, I could just ignore any verbal agreements and all that. Selective memory or honestly forgetting what was said five years ago wasn't impossible. Something legally binding is harder to just ignore because the order must be adhered to. I'm not sure how I feel about her being legally recognised as a co-parent. It's one thing to say it at home. It's another to bring the courts into it.

For the record, I wouldn't go for this, but knowing my wife and her history of going behind my back, I wouldn't put it past her to do this. It's no secret that she wants her ex to have equal say. Legal rights? She'd have a field day. I'm a little concerned. Ry wants what she wants, and that hasn't changed. Neither have those habits of hers.

I don't trust my wife much, but how can I trust that she won't pull some sneaky, underhanded stuff like this after we move? Knowledge is more dangerous than a weapon.
 
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To me? Anything "less than" joyful yes is not joyful yes.

"No" is not a "joyful yes"
A "maybe" is not a "joyful yes"
An "I'm not sure if it is maybe" is not a "joyful yes."

Any of those then has to be a NO vote because they are not a joyful yes.

Could not RUSH into life changing decisions and you agree to sign this thing after just getting the kerfuffle settled back down. You can always do it later right? Does not have to be this instant.

Could investigate the law further before the move and before committing to such a thing -- Snowflake is NOT a step parent (legally) because she is not married to your wife. You are. What's the legal standing on that? What are the rights then? Could they apply together anyway and have it be accepted without your input? Are you going to be held to something against your will if they apply without you? Can it be accepted?
It's a valid concern given recent history. Could check out all your options.

And if it turns up YES, they can do that and it could be accepted... Does that affect your decision to move there if you would now be under this other country's laws?

GG
 
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To me? If it is not a "joyful yes" because....

"no" is not a "joyful yes"
a "maybe" is not a "joyful yes"
an "I'm not sure if it is maybe" is not a "joyful yes."

It is a NO vote. Anything "less than" joyful yes is not joyful yes.

Could not RUSH into life changing decisions after just getting the kerfuffle settled back down.

Could investigate the law further before the move -- Snowflake is NOT a step parent (legally) because she is not married to your wife. You are. What's the legal standing on that? What are the rights then?

It's a valid concern given recent history. Are you going to be held to something against your will if they apply without you? Can it be accepted?

Does that affect your decision to move there if you would now be under this other country's laws?

GG

I was able to read the law and all the sections, and I also asked for verbal clarification. I called the family court in Melbourne. It was explained to me in great detail. Initially, it was designed for step-parents who wanted legal rights without one of the biological parents having to waive their rights in order to make it happen. There is nothing expressly forbidding this from being approved.

These orders are very common with a lot of families. Not only with step-kids. If my best mate had a hand in raising my kids and was an integral part of their lives, and it could be proved, he could be granted one of these orders. Step-parent adoption isn't common in Australia unless the biological parent is deceased, so they have something in place to enable biological parents and another person to consent to raising a child together via co-parenting with this order. Hence the name of the agreement: Consent Order. This could be their nanny, a sibling, grandparents, or anyone who is helping to raise them, is "significant to their care, welfare, and development."

The part about an application being submitted with or without one of the parents' consent is a problem and a concern considering our history. It's not even rushing into it. This wasn't even a thought in my brain. It was mentioned by a mate, and it prompted me to think. I'm beginning to think it was more of a warning than suggestion from my mate. If things hadn't changed, she probably would've started the process without me. I'm not paranoid, but I know how she is. Those old habits aren't completely dead and buried.

Could it be approved without me? There's a high probability. Unless I can prove that her ex not significant to their care, well-being, or development, it would probably get done. How would I prove that? She's not not unfit to my knowledge. She's never abused them. An interview with my kid would probably prove that she's significant. With orders of these kind, they do what's in the best interest of the kids. I would likely end up having to fight them in court to have this overturned.

It doesn't change my mind about moving there, but I've often agreed with people when they say that ignorance of the law is no excuse. I appreciate the heads up. I don't think my Mrs. would do anything this underhanded, but I have to admit. I have concerns now. She's always viewed her ex as an equal co-parent, and this is probably just what she's been waiting to get her hands on.
 
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Matt, i don't have the chance to read both of your long posts right now, but after what you just went through? I don't recommend doing that. I didn't read gala girl'l whole post either, but i read the first part & i probably agree with the whole thing.

You know what you need to do? Read every single post and thread you and your wife wrote on here. Don't even read what other people wrote; just the two of you. Then use that to not make the same mistakes over and over.

I have to go now. The train just got to the last stop.
 
Matt, i don't have the chance to read both of your long posts right now, but after what you just went through? I don't recommend doing that. I didn't read gala girl'l whole post either, but i read the first part & i probably agree with the whole thing.

You know what you need to do? Read every single post and thread you and your wife wrote on here. Don't even read what other people wrote; just the two of you. Then use that to not make the same mistakes over and over.

I have to go now. The train just got to the last stop.

I don't want to make the same mistakes. It wouldn't even be me going along with it. The fact that something like that exists doesn't put me at ease. I've read everything my wife has written, and it further proves why I have a reason to be concerned. There's no way in hell I'd ever willingly go along with it. Would that stop my Mrs. from going behind my back again? She did it once, so what's to stop her from doing it again on a larger scale? Mistrust is no joke.
 
Well, as far as this document goes, I am not sure specifically what you are asking. The more important issue to me would be that if you are that wounded and still have this many issues with trust, that is what I think that should be the major focus. I have seen other trust situations, while not as complex as yours, be enough to make any other work a moot point. At some point, it would seem to me to be to your advantage to decide whether or not you feel can trust your wife again. I know from previous experience that living in a situation where you can't let go and trust is a miserable existence. If you do feel that you can learn to trust her, then my humble opinion is to get through it and get to it. I know there is pain, and I understand from what I have read there is a willingness on both sides to give and work on things, so I would just think that letting go and believing would benefit you both. If you can't or don't feel you can, then what are you actually working toward?

I know that you both seem like good people that are trying to do the best you can, and I think you deserve to be happy.
 
Well, as far as this document goes, I am not sure specifically what you are asking. The more important issue to me would be that if you are that wounded and still have this many issues with trust, that is what I think that should be the major focus. I have seen other trust situations, while not as complex as yours, be enough to make any other work a moot point. At some point, it would seem to me to be to your advantage to decide whether or not you feel can trust your wife again. I know from previous experience that living in a situation where you can't let go and trust is a miserable existence. If you do feel that you can learn to trust her, then my humble opinion is to get through it and get to it. I know there is pain, and I understand from what I have read there is a willingness on both sides to give and work on things, so I would just think that letting go and believing would benefit you both. If you can't or don't feel you can, then what are you actually working toward?

I know that you both seem like good people that are trying to do the best you can, and I think you deserve to be happy.

I agree with that, but I feel like I have to watch my wife. Old habits are still making appearances, and I'd be a fool to just believe her and trust her right now. I got burned, so I'm steering clear of the fire. I need full disclosure and to be shown that she's trustworthy. I don't think that's unreasonable. Her little omissions aren't doing me any favours either.

Cutting me out of having a say over my kids is a problem. I don't think she realises how big of a problem it was and might still be. She was still doing it up until a couple of weeks ago. If I don't want somebody around my kids, the least she could've done was respected it. She knew the situation was contentious. Why create more problems? Last time I checked, they are half mine.

I'm working towards trusting her, but in the mean time, I do question everything. Her behaviour makes me question her.
 
Ok, I guess the part I don't understand is who brought the document up and the imminent filing? While the fact it exists is interesting, I feel you are fretting over things that have not even been approached. Why not just mention it and ask if it was on anyone's mind? I just feel like you may be having phantom fears you don't need, especially considering all the things you do have to worry about. Reading the situation as it stands now, it seems you have all been making progress, I would give them the opportunity to discuss it with you to alleviate your fear. Perhaps it will become another chance for them to both prove to you that you can start to trust again.
 
It was brought up by a mate, who was basically giving me a heads up. He is aware of the whole situation. He works in family court, so he's seen this kind of thing happen. We've been mates since we were 10, and I felt comfortable confiding in him.

It's not the imminent filing. It's the fact that it can be done with or without my consent. It has been brought up since I made that post, and let's just say she did nothing to alleviate the fear that she may try something. Here's what she said, "Hypothetically speaking, what if we were to do that, what would you say?" Yeah, that's not what I wanted to be asked. People wonder why my trust in her varies by the day.

We've made some progress. Nothing to write home about.
 
I can see where you would have concern with the "hypothetical" comment. I just don't know why the living arrangement thing was changed if there are all these issues still roiling. The only defense would be for you to contest after it was filed if it was done without your permission? I would just think the behind your back thing would be the deal breaker anyway. Once again, I think that the easiest way would by dealing in absolutes right now, not in hypotheticals. You have so many things to still work through.
 
Don't just sit back and "watch your wife" to see if she if she goes behind your back. Speak up and tell them that this is bothering you and that you are afraid they will go behind your back! This is a subject that definitely calls for a discussion with all three of you. I think it's too soon to be cementing such things after the major kerfuffle (GalaGirl's term). Who knows where things will stand 2 years from now. Maybe this is something that you guys make a set time to discuss again one year from the date you move and then every 6-12 months after that or so, to see where everyone is on the issue.
 
"Hypothetically speaking, what if we were to do that, what would you say?"

What was your response? Personally, if my spouse did something like that, behind my back after I said I didn't want it done, I'd be done and filing divorce paperwork the next day.
 
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