Need advice on whether to be poly

nondy

New member
Hi,

I haven't spoken directly with too many poly people. I wanted to join the conversation and possibly get advice.

I've been married for 12 years and had an open relationship for 2 1/2. We opened up when i met a man who I wanted to date. That was turmoultous and ended after a year or so. In any case, my husband met a woman a few months ago. She usually dates poly men. I do not harbor any jealousy. I am actually happy for him!

However, he desires to be full on poly and make his lover part of our household (we have two children) not to move-in but to hang out with all of us. I am not interested in doing this. I prefer to keep our love lives separate. We also (the two of us) have stopping having sex, which I am fine with (we sleep in separate rooms).

I am dating someone but not having sex because the person is in a mono relationship. I know this is breaking a code, and I feel terrible, but he''s truly unhappy in his relationship and I have a hard time connecting with people.

All this has made me think - am I truly poly? Do I need to be single so that I can form another relationship that can go "all the way?" How do I come to terms with my primaries desire to bring his secondary more into our lives? If you don't sleep with your primary is that even a poly relationship?

I love my partner dearly and don't want to lose him, but I think I'm naturally mono and just interested in house holding with him more than being in a love/sexual relationship -- but that seems to limit what relationships I have outside the primary one.
 
Hi,

I changed my name. I had to reregister. So, I think what I am struggling with is finding out the difference between what is poly and what is just an unhappy marriage (or a marriage that isn't working)> I'm not judging anyone - I'm just trying to figure it out for myself.

I'm not a big fan of marriage. It seems impossible to sustain. So, I think people either a. get divorces or b. cheat. But my husband and I decided to try c. take lovers and be honest about it. I think he IS truly a poly person. He seems happy sleeping with both of us and having us be friends and including her in our family. I however do not think I'm actually poly. I think I'm missing something in the marriage (romance, passion) that I'm looking for outside.

I guess I'm asking why people become poly? Is it because so meting is lacking in the primary relationship? Or are some people just wired to need more sex and more affection? I'm so confused!

Am I doing something wrong here (in the post?) haven't gotten any feed back. Maybe there is a siimuliar thread someone could point me to.

Thnanks!

Anne
 
Welcome to the forum both of you! LOL

You are most definitely not the first person who has had to ask themselves whether they are poly or just looking for others because their relationship is bad.

The concept of "full on poly" is not one that will achieve a lot of resonance on here - poly is what you each want it to be - there is no certification program, no universal ideal for a poly configuration. If you don't want someone to be a part of your family, then that's absolutely your right, and everyone involved needs to respect that. If he wants someone to be part of your family, then everyone needs to respect that too.

We each have our needs, wants and likes for our relationship life. The challenge is to try to get to a point where everyone gets at least their needs met. If they can get a goodly number of "wants" met, then that's good too.

If you and he have very different bottom-lines, then you are not going to be able to make it work.

Another poly adage that's out there is that you shouldn't fall into the "relationship broken, add more people" trap - it rarely, if ever works, and usually just adds drama and more tension to an already bad situation. You have to get the current relationships stable before adding folks. That's the fairest to you, but also to the people coming in. Otherwise the other people can become punching bags or negotiating chips - and nobody really wants to be that.

Your question "Why become poly" - ever since I was a teenager I didn't see why I had to love only one person - why everyone else that I cared about had to disappear (at least form me heart) as soon as I got into a relationship. Conversely, I stayed friends with all of my exes, and couldn't understand why, because our relationship wasn't working, I had to suddenly "hate" this person when they hadn't done anything wrong. When I spoke with other folks about this idea, it seemed utterly foreign to them, while it seemed completely natural to me. I think that was my first clue that I had stuff in me that was "not normal". The rest is a long and painful story that I have written about quite a few times. For me, while sex is a part of a relationship, it's not about needing more sex, or different sex. For me it's about love and romance with multiple people, not just a way to balance differing sex drives.
 
Hi nondy2!

Welcome aboard. I am pretty new here myself.

As for why I decided to be poly, I had never heard of it until fairly recently. A friend I made was poly and she turned me on to the idea. I have always been a big proponent of honesty and openness. Through my life I found it easy to form little crushes on people. In a couple cases this blossomed into actual feelings for them. I was usually in a monogamous relationship when this would happen and I would feel ashamed about how I felt. I didn't know at the time that it was just natural and normal. When I heard about polyamory I looked back on those parts of my life and saw I didn't have to be ashamed. It was possible for me to explore these feelings. It just made so much sense and I wanted to make it a part of my life.
 
Hi Anne -
First of all, I am really sorry to hear how troubled you are. But you are really asking about two very separate situations, the only common element between them being you.

Yes, I do think it is okay for you to negotiate not inviting your husbands lover into your home as a limit, especially where there are children involved. Hopefully the two of you will come to some kind of mutually satisfying agreement/compromise on that. And good for you for standing up for your feelings.

As far as the man you are dating, you mentioned that you and your husband are "taking lovers and being honest about it", but unless I am reading your words incorrectly, it sounds like the man you are dating is being dishonest with his wife - is he completely open with her about his relationship with you? If he is being dishonest, by extension, so are you. I am a big believer in honesty, and feel that a man who would lie to his wife is a man who would also lie to you. I don't think you should take part in that dynamic.

Otherwise, you just sound a little confused about what you are looking for. Good luck to you in exploring your feelings, I hope things work out for the best for you.
 
I'll answer your question first. Why become poly? Well for many people it's just the way they are. They 'become' poly when they learn how to handle the multiple relationships with honesty and communication. Though there are those that enjoy more relationships because of a kink factor, one partner is into a kink that the other is not, typically adding another partner to make up for a lack in your (main)relationship is not the idea. Sure you may have different interests that not all partners share but, for example, I don't date BF because he likes to write out fan fiction with me that hubby won't.

Ciel is right in the fact that everyone has their own way of being poly, it's about deciding on what works for you. That changes and gets renegotiated as time goes on and other people join your circle.

As for the rest, if you feel your marriage is missing something, then that's something to discuss with your husband. Personally I don't think just adding more people will help that. It didn't help us, it actually made things more complicated and difficult. We, my husband and I, had to work on our relationship, strengthen it, work on communication, discovering what we want and need from each other and being able to ask for it. Now that we are doing that, poly is easier for us both. Hubby is mono so me being poly when our relationship wasn't good, was harder.
 
Thank you

Thank you everyone!

The situation is sticky. Since being poly (2 1/2 yrs) my relationship with my husband has greatly improved. We communicate better and are more peaceful.

However, the situation still feels different than others. The reason I am happier is that he has a sexual/romantic partner and I don't feel pressure to have sex or be romantic with him. Now that this pressure is lifted, I feel much closer to him. I always felt like I was forcing myself into feelings I don't have and I dreaded sex, rather than looked forward to it.

Is anyone else in this situation? Is everyone here sexual and romantic with their primary partner? It's a hard situation. I want all the wonderful things we have -we raise our kids and work well together, but romance isn't there for me. But I don't even know if marriage can be based on romance!
 
All this has made me think - am I truly poly?

"Polyamorous" to me is the ability to love more than one person.

Polyamorous relationship configuration is the shape/style of the "polyship" to me.

Ethical or unethical -- is self explanatory.

Do I need to be single so that I can form another relationship that can go "all the way?"

All the way to WHAT? Sex? Loving? Ethics? Living together? Shared finances? Making children together?

How do I come to terms with my primaries desire to bring his secondary more into our lives?

You tell him YOUR preferences and limits and you come to compromise if you BOTH want to go there. If one of you does not want to go there, the other respects that limit.

However, he desires to be full on poly and make his lover part of our household (we have two children) not to move-in but to hang out with all of us. I am not interested in doing this. I prefer to keep our love lives separate. We also (the two of us) have stopping having sex, which I am fine with (we sleep in separate rooms).

To me this means you share companionate love with your husband. You also share a household. You also share a known, consenting polyship that is currently in a "V" shape with him as the hinge person. This relationship shape has you as the live in wife as one of his "V" arms. The GF is not live-in but is one of his "V" arms.

You are her metamour. You prefer to keep it at the polite but not tight place.

What he NEEDS to understand is that he can express his feelings and wishes but YOU and the GF determine how the (you <--> GF ) tier of this polymath tier plays out. NOT HIM.

So if you don't want to go there, you don't want to go there. Period.

If he pushes you to do something against your preference, your will, your limit? He is being fresh and not respecting your preference, your limit or YOU. Period.

If you don't sleep with your primary is that even a poly relationship?

Yes. Polyamory is about loving people. It is not about sex. Sex is a part of marriage. Marriage is not only sexing up each other.

There is more than one kind of love -- I subscribe to love theory.

You sound like you share companionate love with your husband at this point. You share finances, a home, mind intimacy, and emotional intimacy. Just not body imtimacy.

I am dating someone but not having sex because the person is in a mono relationship. I know this is breaking a code, and I feel terrible, but he''s truly unhappy in his relationship and I have a hard time connecting with people.

So you are in a cheating affair because his spouse does not know you are his GF on the side? You know this is wrong and feel bad about it? And your explanation of the unethical behaviour is:

  • It is ok for him to lie to the spouse because he is unhappy. (Versus ethically telling the spouse of his unhappy and working it out in appropriate ways)
  • It is ok for you to lie to the spouse as an accessory to the fact because... you have a hard time making connections to other people? (versus telling your BF to deal with his relationship with the wife -- come clean and get her consent or break up. But resolve THAT before stating a new thing with you -- a CLEAN new thing.)

Your explanation does not shine with ethics or honesty. I would not do this in my own life. But this is not my life.

If this is how you wish to behave in your life, that is your business. You are a grown up person.

If this is not how you wish to behave because it makes you feel terrible, why you do that behavior? Change your behavior. See how you feel.

I love my partner dearly and don't want to lose him, but I think I'm naturally mono and just interested in house holding with him more than being in a love/sexual relationship -- but that seems to limit what relationships I have outside the primary one.

Limits you HOW exactly? What freedom do you want that you do not already get? Please list in detail -- not to me but for YOURSELF.

If that list shows you that you are not cut out for polyshipping and have no interest? Then you just aren't and don't. That means you need to have a talk with husband. You have EVERY right to live your life how you want to. There is NOTHING wrong with monoships -- just have them be ethical ones so that you can feel good about the ones you are in.

Marriage is based on whatever the two married people want it to be for themselves.
The reason I am happier is that he has a sexual/romantic partner and I don't feel pressure to have sex or be romantic with him. Now that this pressure is lifted, I feel much closer to him. I always felt like I was forcing myself into feelings I don't have and I dreaded sex, rather than looked forward to it. I want all the wonderful things we have -we raise our kids and work well together, but romance isn't there for me.

So you are basically happy there? All your wants, needs, and limits being better met? What's the problem then? With the guilt thing of not ALSO having romance layer on there?

That's about it. Hope that feedback helps you.

Peace,
GG
 
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Married guy

Thank you so much.

Part One of you advice is incredibly helpful.

Part Two is interesting. To me, my primary issue at this point is whether to stay married. And how to make that work.

As far as seeing someone who is cheating, I have a slightly different feeling than most poly people might. Yes. I agree it it unethical. Yes. I agree that it is unwise and I probably will get out.

However, I do have sympathy for people who are unhappily married and CAN'T be poly - and don't want to get divorced. I am not saying it is right. I am saying I have empathy - because I am somewhat in that situation too - except (luckily my husband is open minded). What does someone do if they are unhappily married but can't get divorced either- ?

It seems to take a lover was the common thing for centuries. I guess in my mind our polyamoury was the honest version of take a lover instead of being add more love.

I know that people tend to judge people who date mono people - PLEASE don't judge me. The internet is a scary place and I truly am just looking for support.
 
I am trying to support you. But I perceive you are tangling up many issues together. Take them ONE at a time.

You and your husband have Opened Up with consent. So -- that was your solution to a companionate love marriage so you both can get your sexual needs met. Fair enough. On that side you are fine.

However the lover that you took on? Is not the best choice in lover there -- it's a messy situation, IMHO. I am not judging YOU. You asked for feedback on YOUR SITUATION.

My feedback on your situation of choosing your first poly lover to be a married guy with marriage issues? I would not pick that for myself. Too much messy potential. First poly lover and the odds a cheater will treat YOU well is what? Shaky ground at best.

I do not like drama in my life -- it is my preference/limit to not add to my anxiety issues where I can help it. I cannot help when it rains. I CAN help who I pick to date. *shrug*

So no -- I will not be dating a married person where I do not get the verify from the spouse that they are aware of my existence and they do consent to open/poly relationship and their spouse is free to date me. I can like them a lot, I can crush on them, I can sympathize with their situation and I can say to them "Aw... that stinks! I really like you a lot. So... Look me up when you are drama free. Will hope for the best in your situation as you get it resolved."

What does someone do if they are unhappily married but can't get divorced either- ?

Are you talking about your married lover that will not tell the spouse? If so? How about he be honest and up front about it?

"Hey -- I am not happy married to you. We cannot get divorced at this time because we cannot afford the paperwork costs, have to wait to sell the house, ...whatever it is that is the obstacle. We must wait. So we're having to be this way right now til we get to a place where we can split well.

Let's call some kind of truce til we can untangle ourselves here. But we are honest and know where we stand right now, at this Time, and at this Place. We are not ever getting back together. I am sorry. I intend to start dating at some point. Know this. I will want to start moving my life forward in the places in CAN move, even if in the legal places it's slower. You are free to do same."​

There. Done.

You and your own spouse were able to be honest -- what's his deal? He can't be honest? Lies of omission are still lies. Why you wanna date a liar then? When do you wonder what lies of omission he does to you? That can get really messy and dramatic! :eek:

If you report feeling terrible about it -- well, my suggestion is to stop doing the thing that makes you feel terrible then. Maybe it will alleviate your feeling terrible? Maybe not. It is STILL your life to run. Your choices are yours.
I know that people tend to judge people who date mono people

Not at all. Once upon a time I was the hinge with two monoamorous BFs. I don't judge you dating a monoamorous person at all. A monoamorous and a polyamorous can find ways to co-exist in harmony.

What you are dating here is a married cheating person, not a free single monoamorous person without baggage.

He may be monoamorous. And he may no longer love his spouse and love only you.

However he is dating without terminating his previous MONOGAMOUS contract and dissolving his legal marriage before pressing his suit on new people. He does not tell his wife. So you know he breaks promises and he does lies of omission. This makes him a good poly lover choice because...? Choosing to date him is you looking out for your own well being by....?

You deserve to be treated with respect, love, and kindness, right? Treat YOURSELF right then. And tell him "great! Look me up when you are free!"

Or you want some crazy wife with a gun to come after you? Talk about dramatic! Ugh.

Date all the monoamorous people you want to date -- but non-messy monoamorous people without drama baggage. That is my suggestion.

I am sorry you are hurting right now. I know hurt can make things hard to see clear. But I commend you for trying. Keep going! Don't stop thinking it out for yourself. Hang in there.

HTH!
GG
 
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Thanks!

I understand. I appreciate the advice. And this is not the main crux of why I'm writing anyway. Nothing but interest has really happened with this person anyway. I'm more interested in find out whether others live with companions - not romantic and how that works.

That said, to me divorce isn't as easy as you point out because marriage (for me) is not about romance and sex. It's about companionship, friendship, and family. If I were just in love with my husband breaking up would be easier! But he's the only one who can assure me when I'm anxious, we have a child together, I consider his family my family - so breaking that apart just because I don't want to have sex or candle lit dinners with him seems silly.

But do I want to give up sex and romance entirely? Don't know. He seems ok. He would prefer we have sex, but he loves his GF and she's into his kink and she doesn't want more so...
 
Thanks

GG,

Sorry. I was getting emails with only part of yr posts. The posts are very helpful and not judging at all! Thank you.

You ask what am I not getting that I want "to go all the way." Well, it's not kids (don't want any more) not finances or particularly living together.

I guess what I want is an intense romantic and sexual and emotionally intimate relationship. Supposedly, that CAN happen in poly, but I don't see it because I only meet guys you 1. are married 2. will evenly want to GET married or 3. want casual sex. I think it's hard (impossible?) to find someone who will ethically agree to be the 'little bit' on the side for a long time.

I guess I'm still wondering why be poly at all? If the sex and intimacy is very good in one del. - why look for more. I understand in a bi or kink situation, but when I'm in love, I just want to be with that person.
 
I have friends who are trying out being married in a "companionate love" situation and they each have a Spice.

In my own marriage there are periods where the sex waxes and wanes.

My parent's marriage is learning to deal with sex fading away -- Dad has mental health issues.

So... again. Sex can be a component of marriage. But marriage is not just about sex.

Try reading some of the blogs -- there are other poly people who have love/sex/romance and do NOT live or marry their people.

One of my old friends is that secondary guy -- he lives in his flat. His honey is married and lives with her husband. The hubby has his gf. They all do fine and have been this way (my friend and his married honey) and recently celebrated 5 years together.


I guess I'm still wondering why be poly at all? If the sex and intimacy is very good in one del. - why look for more. I understand in a bi or kink situation, but when I'm in love, I just want to be with that person.

In general? Or for yourself?

Only you can answer what you feel wired for and what shape you want your relationships to come as for you -- monoships or polyships or some other thing.

In general? I feel like this...

1) Polyamorous people come wired with the desire/ability to love more than one partner at a time. They will go -- why NOT? I have this ability. I don't have to exercise it. I could feel polyamorous -- and choose celibacy! I could choose monoship! I could choose a polyship! I am still polyamorous! The relationship shape chosen does not define the ability, capacity, adaptability or wiring of me.

2) Monoamorous people come wired with the desire/ability to love one partner at a time only. They will go -- well.... WHY? I have this ability. I don't have to exercise it. Monoamorous me could still choose celibacy for myself! I could also choose a monogamous relationship for myself. Or choose to be one arm of a "V" shape polyship arrangement. Or something else! The relationship shape chosen does not define the ability, capacity, adaptability or wiring of me.

3) So why bother asking why? In the end to me? People want whatever it is they want from their Life. It is their own life to live. They are free to choose. Go live it then. Yay! :)

When you write this...

But he's the only one who can assure me when I'm anxious, we have a child together, I consider his family my family - so breaking that apart just because I don't want to have sex or candle lit dinners with him seems silly.

But do I want to give up sex and romance entirely? Don't know. He seems ok. He would prefer we have sex, but he loves his GF and she's into his kink and she doesn't want more so...

It sounds like you are fine then in your arrangement with DH. Where is the problem? I do not understand what you are saying.

  • Are you saying that you are not sure you can hack an open marriage or feel polyamorous? (Based on what? One Opening experiment? Maybe that one guy just isn't a runner. That's what dating is for. To find the match.)
  • Are you saying you feel like if you love someone it must come in the monoship shape, and with DH in the slot of legal husband that prevents you from seeking what you want? A monoship shape because he's in the slot? He's ok with you dating? Do you need to be legally divorced to feel ok to date? So... get one? Then live together and coparent still. While you each date.

I guess I don't what sort of question you are asking so I don't know how to give feedback on that angle.

Please elaborate? What ARE you asking? Struggling with there?

GG
 
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As far as your question on if someone else is in your situation I know there was a thread recently. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26159

It is about a man who is his wife's primary relationship in all ways but one. The sexual. If that is what you and your husband want then that's working for you and fine.

As for 'being a piece on the side'. Why would you think it would be like that? I am married, more than 17 years, bf and I have been together now just over a year. It's a long distance relationship but I wouldn't classify it as 'a piece on the side'. For me, at least, I don't quantify the love. We are in contact every day, face time, IMs, texts. He knows of my kids and they know of him, he's talked to them and they've talked to him, but my home life is me and my kids and hubby. We aren't considering bf to move in or become a 'primary' in that way, but he is far from a piece on the side.
 
However, I do have sympathy for people who are unhappily married and CAN'T be poly - and don't want to get divorced. I am not saying it is right. I am saying I have empathy - because I am somewhat in that situation too - except (luckily my husband is open minded). What does someone do if they are unhappily married but can't get divorced either- ?
I have incredible amounts of sympathy for those that are unhappily married and can't be poly, but that doesn't mean that I am going to have a relationship with them.

And there is no such thing as "can't" get divorced. It *is* a choice. It may well be that they have evaluated the consequences of getting a divorce and that it would make their lives worse, but it is still their choice.


It seems to take a lover was the common thing for centuries.
So was slavery - didn't make that right, either.

I guess in my mind our polyamoury was the honest version of take a lover instead of being add more love.
If everyone involved (which includes his wife) was not informed and consented to it, then in my mind it's not a truly ethical situation and is therefore cheating. You may be in poly relationships, but he is cheating, and you are enabling that.

I know that people tend to judge people who date mono people - PLEASE don't judge me. The internet is a scary place and I truly am just looking for support.
Most poly folks don't judge those that date or are in a relationship with a mono person - there is a whole sub-type of poly called mono/poly which covers that (and I am in one). But in this version everybody is fully informed and consents to it. That is the difference.

There are those that say that what their partners do is none of their business - if they have a spouse and are cheating on them then it's not their concern, but that's not something that I could deal with in my life.
 
If you don't sleep with your primary is that even a poly relationship?
Yes.

I love my partner dearly and don't want to lose him, but I think I'm...just interested in house holding with him more than being in a love/sexual relationship -- but that seems to limit what relationships I have outside the primary one.

Life is full of limits. Every choice we make limits other things we might have done.

I know people tend to judge people who date mono people - PLEASE don't judge me. The internet is a scary place and I truly am just looking for support.

I'm going to give you some straight-forward answers, and it's not out of unkindness or judgment. It's about the kindness of telling someone upfront where the cliff is BEFORE they walk off it and hit the sharp rocks 30 feet below.

This is not about dating a mono; it's about cheating.

Your entire quote is written as I'm just a poor little girl, be niiiiiice to me, I'm soooo scaaaaared. I'm asking you to think about this man's wife. Does he have children who will be harmed when she finds out? (Because I can assure you, she will.) What about the scary place of finding out her marriage is a lie and she may be on her own, to support herself and children when perhaps she has never had to do so? FINDING YOU ARE THE SPOUSE OF A CHEATER IS A SCARY PLACE. You are putting someone else in that scary place.

Why should anyone support you in an action that is bound to inflict great pain and damage on another human being?

I know this is [wrong], and I feel terrible, but he's truly unhappy in his relationship and I have a hard time connecting with people.

The word BUT, as used here, is a way of explaining why you are above normal rules governing decent treatment of other human beings.

What if you were in a marriage with someone you loved dearly and trusted entirely and found out he was lying to you and cheating and telling people how miserable he is with you...and his girlfriend who had conspired behind your back explained to you that she knows it's wrong BUT he's miserable with you and she personally has a hard time connecting so she feels entitled to your husband, behind your back, despite the fact that it hurts you...

...would this be okay with you?

Please...treat others as you would like to be treated.

I would strongly suggest you do extensive reading on an infidelity forum to see the total devastation a woman suffers when she finds out the husband she loved and trusted is cheating on her. Find out how she feels about the woman involved.

My ex-husband was involved with at least a dozen women, most of whom were quite okay with being part of lying to me (by omission). I have nothing but disrespect for their character. They have none.

By contrast, one 23 year old girl, when she realized where he was leading, telling her his sad little stories about how unhappy he was, told him firmly and politely, "I'm uncomfortable with these conversations. I don't want to be in the middle of your marriage problems. Please don't contact me in private again." This girl is going places because she is strong, she owns herself, she knows right from wrong and does what is right regardless of how she feels. She will always have self-respect. She will never have to use the word BUT, or beg people not to judge her--because she is confident in her own character and how she has behaved.

You can ask, all you want, for people not to judge you, because it's all so scary and you're entitled to her husband, and he's so unhappy, blah blah blah, but the cold, hard fact is that everybody has their opinions, and MANY will have a low opinion of what you are doing.

Again, I say this NOT out of unkindness or judgment, but out of the deepest compassion for what lies ahead: Do you want to see this cliff and the rocks below before or after you walk off it?

As far as seeing someone who is cheating, I have a slightly different feeling than most poly people might. Yes. I agree it is unethical. Yes. I agree that it is unwise and I probably will get out.
However, I do have sympathy for people who are unhappily married and CAN'T be poly - and don't want to get divorced. I am not saying it is right. I am saying I have empathy - because I am somewhat in that situation too - except (luckily my husband is open minded). What does someone do if they are unhappily married but can't get divorced either- ?

You can have sympathy and empathy and still not be part of hurting another human being (his wife.) If it is unethical, don't do it.

When I was unhappily married but felt I couldn't divorce, I made a decision I was going to honor my marriage vows, because my character mattered to me, regardless of what choices XH made. I went to al-anon and learned a great deal about focusing on my own choices, not his. I made a decision to take responsibility for my own happiness. I pursued a hobby I'd always loved, went out and met new friends in that field (including my current married, poly friend) worked hard at it, and built it into a business. I focused on being the best mother and employee and teacher I could be because that matters. I focused on my relationship with God, because that matters.

The end result is that my children are not happy about the divorce (I finally filed because XH was now stealing money from me and running us so deeply into debt we would have lost the house--I did it to protect myself and my children financially, to keep a roof over their heads.) BUT...I am at peace with myself and my choices. I have no fears of them finding out anything I've ever done or blaming me for the divorce. I stand blameless before God, regardless of the lies my xh and even my own family are telling about me, and that gives me peace. I never have to use the word BUT.... If my current boyfriend is ever a part of my children's lives, they will have NO cause to think he had any part in breaking up their family (because he didn't--he was 120% honorable and didn't so much as flirt with me until the divorce had been FINAL for several months.)

The end result is that those who know me KNOW that I live with integrity and honor and honesty and I have their respect.

We don't need a boyfriend/girlfriend to be happy. We don't need other people to change and be what we want to be happy. Happiness comes from being happy with who we've chosen to be, from doing the right thing.
 
Married guy

[QOk this is harsh. And has made me think. Thank you.

As far as ethics- Is lying the only unethical thing? I'm just curious. People can go to orgies, do meth, have random sex with hundreds of strangers- and that is ethical and moral if no no one lies? Am I being unethical if we are just friends? What should the boundaries be? No sex? No communication? Should I insist he tell his wife we are friends?

I am also guessing your 23 yr old was not in a ten year complex marriage. Right? My issue is that I am not entirely happy either -and need someone to relate to...so how does that fit into things?

As far as ethics, why is lying the only litmus test. I can't have aq drink with some I CARE about because it's lying. But people can go to orgies every week because they are Honest?? Hmmm
 
[QOk this is harsh. And has made me think. Thank you.

As far as ethics- Is lying the only unethical thing? I'm just curious. People can go to orgies, do meth, have random sex with hundreds of strangers- and that is ethical and moral if no no one lies? Am I being unethical if we are just friends? What should the boundaries be? No sex? No communication? Should I insist he tell his wife we are friends?

I am also guessing your 23 yr old was not in a ten year complex marriage. Right? My issue is that I am not entirely happy either -and need someone to relate to...so how does that fit into things?

As far as ethics, why is lying the only litmus test. I can't have a drink with some I CARE about because it's lying. But people can go to orgies every week because they are Honest?? Hmmm

Lying is not the only litmus test. I agree with you, there are many things that are unethical besides lying. I also see some major problems with weekly orgies, meth, and random sex with hundreds of strangers.

Yes, you should insist he tell his wife what's going on. My 23 year old was not married, but I was in a 20+ year marriage, I was in a great deal of pain, I was unhappy with how he was treating me--and I would have told a man the exact same thing as the 23 year old.

You can still find people to relate to without stepping into a situation that will harm someone else. What hobbies or interests do you have? Join a group, take a class, go to a forum, and you will bit by bit find people with whom you can relate.

What should the boundaries be? That depends on what his wife is comfortable with. Maybe if it's all above board, she'll be fine with you having coffee and personal conversations with her husband. I know for me, my ex was in a sense 'just friends' with many of these women. It wasn't that he talked to them, even about personal things, that was a huge problem. It was the lying, sneaking, me being the third wheel in my own marriage, the only one of the three who was treated as unworthy of knowing what was happening in my own marriage that was a problem (a real spit in the face) and it was the back-stabbing and telling them I was making him miserable.

I truly do not mean to be harsh. I didn't have a boyfriend when I was still married but I did things in my own pain that maybe I could have done better. I did one thing that I feel in retrospect was a little unfair to someone else. It's my only regret in how I dealt with all my husband's infidelities and lies, and had I been on the infidelity forum sooner and said my husband is telling me to do this, they would have pointed out where I was heading and the ramifications to others, apart from calling my husband's bluff. So thank you for being willing to see past what might feel harsh. It truly is not intended to be.
 
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