Difficulty in New Dynamic

LovingRadiance

Active member
So-
I'm having a struggle-this may get long, I'm sorry.

One of the odd things in our situation is that all of my friends are also friends with GG. But not all of his friends are mine. Some of them I've never met, some just don't like me, though they really don't KNOW me.

Maca really doesn't have any "friends". He socializes with a couple co-workers in summer (fishing) and fall (hunting), he has a brother and he talks to my bil.

GG has one group of "friends" (guy friends) who hate me. Two are his younger brothers. The others are friends. These guys have spent YEARS hanging out as a group. They play RPG's, party, smoke pot, drink, whatever.

I've known GG longer than all of the guys in this group except for his two brothers and one who was his boss when we met.

So-the boss met GG and I at roughly the same time (we both got jobs in the same place within a few days of one another). At that time I was an 18 yo mother and very much in a self-destructive, "men are scum" revenge mode as far as dating goes. GG was a COMPLETELY innocent 17 year old. His boss told him he needed to stay away from me, because I'd play him and leave him broken in my path.

Pretty much that was true-except that in MY eyes he was a boy, not a man. I differentiated between the two, because I ADORED my baby brother. GG was so innocent-there was no mistaking that he wasn't out hurting women with his exploits, so I never went there.

He fell for me, and I held him at bay. A variety of reasons not pertinent to THIS issue.

He and his boss became friends, and this group of guys formed in the years following. For reasons only guys would understand I was brought up in discussion during their "hanging out".
Mind you-GG and I remained VERY close friends through all of this. It was COMMON for him to spend the night with me. He took vacation time to spend time with me, we went out with my daughter together, we went out with whoever I was dating together, we went out alone together-all of the time.
But I was never involved in ANY activity that included these guys.

After his brothers were grown, they joined in the group of guys (up to this time I got along well with both of them). At that point it became obvious that they suddenly thought I was a piece of crap. They became downright rude and disrespectful and it became evident that there was a WHOLE story that I was missing details about.

One particular day GG called me, sick as a dog. He'd gone home from work early and was MISERABLE. I told him I'd come by, pick up a tape I wanted to borrow and drop off some oj and soup.
When I got there, the oldest of the brothers was there and told me GG was in bed and "he doesn't want any company". Having JUST gotten off the phone with him I knew it was b.s. I told him I knew damn well he was in bed. I walked through the door, under his arm and proceeded (with him telling me I had no right) down the hall to GG's room.
I found him as expected miserable and in bed. I sat on the edge of the bed, brushed his hair out of his face, kissed his forehead, checked his temperature, found the c.d. dropped off the stuff I took him and just ran my fingers over his back gentle (the way he likes) until he passed back out again. Then I left in silence.

After that it was common when I would call for one or another of the guys answer the phone and attempt to give me a line of reasons why I couldn't talk to GG. It didn't go over well with me and eventually I got pretty rude and demanding. In all of this-GG and I were STILL spending time together and socializing like NOTHING had changed between us, so there was no reason to believe he had anything to do with their behavior.
I had already figured out-and talked with him about the fact that they thought I was "using him" (no idea what FOR as we weren't dating, he wasn't babysitting for me, giving me money, sex etc) and that I was just a "stupid bitch" or "whore" or whatever.

So-here we are NOW; he's my boyfriend in a polyamorous relationship. We're in a V with my husband Maca (I being the hinge)...
One of the guys has since made "peace" with me and Maca and knows all of this.

The rest have not and do not.

The one who does is pushing to "rebuild" the friendship between GG and the others (he moved in with us 7 yrs or so ago and their socializing dropped off significantly because we live 45 min away in another town)....

So he wants to start up a D&D night for them. He's invited my 10 year old (whose not going) and Maca....

Saturday Maca and GG are going to go hang out, set up the game, start playing etc....

So my issue is that I think it's TOTAL BULLSHIT that they are even GOING without GG having FIRST taken the guys (one by one) aside, explained to them that I AM his girlfriend and that if they are going to rebuild a friendship then they will have to be RESPECTFUL of me in that role.
I don't care if we (they and I) are never "friends".

But I DO care about them hanging out with GG if they are going to continue talking shit about me behind my back.

I have even BIGGER issues with Maca getting involved at all (he doesn't even KNOW these guys at this point) if they are going to be doing that shit.

There is no issue with the 10 year old, I'm mom, and I said no way.

But am I "off" in my thoughts/expectations with GG and Maca?

I can't even identify a specific emotion right now. I feel numb..... It's been bothering me for a few weeks. I've been waiting to see what was going to come of it, and to try to analyze my emotions. But... well I guess I need input, cause I'm not getting very far....
 
I hate to say this, it sounds so simple and yet so much like a cliche... those guys can sense how important you are to GG and that his bond with you is stronger than his bond with them... or just different in a way they will never know... and:

THEY. ARE. JUST. JELLUS.

The end.
 
POSITIVE ALERT! POSITIVE ALERT!

Hey LR, let's not focus on the negative for a moment and think about the positives....you're men are hanging out socially!! :D

This could be the start of something that bonds them! Think about it, no one is probably going to bad mouth you with both your men there, I'm thinking that would not be in their best interests at all.

I'm going to agree with Ygirl..the guys are jealous but I do think this could be a turning point not to sound to optimistic :)

Woohoo!!
 
I am just gonna throw this out there. It might not be jealousy. They may well have been trying to protect him. While misplaced, its not a bad thing. Sounds like it was handled improperly though. If the wounds can be healed, they could end up a very tight knit group of friends. I would rather have friends like that than what I got stuck with in the past.

I was with a woman 7 years. AFTER we broke up everyone told me how bad she was for me, what a rotten woman she was (I met her when I was 17 and she was 23). This is family and friends. None of them bothered to try and approach me during the relationship. I'll take his friends over my ex-friends anyday. ;) :)
 
Yeah Ariakas-

That would make sense for the one who was his boss.

But his brothers KNEW me, we went to church together, the whole family knew me.

The others don't know me from tea in China and likely wouldn't recognize me if they saw me in the grocery store.

I am all for them resolving the issue and being a tight knit group of friends.

BUT-
I think there is a right and a wrong way to go about it.

I don't think that going and hanging out, playing nice and saying nothing, then coming home (where they know I am) and turning around a week later to tell them that there are things that they need to change about themselves in order to be friends is going to accomplish anything but making them think that I "made" him put those rules/boundaries in place.

It would be more RESPONSIBLE in my opinion-generally AND to me and our family specifically- to be upfront BEFORE going to socialize with them.
It's not like none of these people have phones. Nor is it like the invite was presented this week.

He's had years and since the invite-he's had a month that he could have called and said "hey we need to talk, when can you and I get together?".

His take is that he will go "feel them out" Saturday, then if he thinks it's "worth it" he'll call and make arrangements to talk to them.......


Did I mention-this has been an ongoing issue (them hating me) for 14 years and I haven't left. I'm not going anywhere. My youngest child is his biologically-we're family and we're raising 4 kids. These people aren't new to the realization that this is a serious relationship-what they are new to is that we are officially a couple now.

I don't know-I think it's shitty on his part not to stand up and handle things from the get go.


(Mono-yes there is that. I know that. That's the ONLY reason I haven't stepped in and thrown a fit thus far)
 
Fair enough, 14 years of blindness sucks. Hopefully this meetup is the beginning of the healing, hopefully it doesn't end up being too little to late :) Communication doesn't come easily for a lot of people.

Good luck and I hope it all works out :)
 
I see a lot of good in this event happening... the two of them can not only bond socially, but also come to your defense socially.

Some men just don't like strong, determined women it seems. It just doesn't seem to sit well that women like you are seemingly "calling the shots" where your men are concerned. Of course this is largely bullshit as it is all a balance of give and take, but they probably don't see that.

Some men like their women to just play along with their needs and not have any of their own... having two men in your life is like the complete opposite to what they are comfortable with. I think I understand how you feel in this situation. It's like an itch you can't scratch almost. There is nothing to do but trust your men to take care of the situation as it comes up I think.
 
Hi LR,

Well............

I'm surprised from what I've read here that this hasn't surfaced before.
In case it's any value, let me see if I can explain some of it from the male perspective.

There's this whole "male bonding" thing that exists for many men. Although it's not something I've ever had need for in my life to any degree personally, I've seen it A LOT with other friends - including one of my own sons. Not going to try to analyze it here as it's pointless. Enough to acknowledge it's existence - and importance for some men. I think some women experience it too, but it seems to be in smaller numbers.
I may even go out on a limb and credit a certain percentage of it to maturity - or lack of. Probably get spanked for that but it is what it is !

Now, it's a bit of a growth process for guys that seem to need this. At some point, their life seem to fill (or not) with other things that relistically need to take priority. Maybe wives/GFs, children, job responsibility, changes in interests etc. And it passes. But not without pain it seems. There's a period there where they feel they are being pulled in multiple directions and what does THAT cause ? Pressure! So it can be an turbulent time, emotions can become unstable, thinking muddy and decisions.........well........unpredictable.

I always relate it to some of those growing up phases that we all hit at various times in our lives. Somehow we (most) seem to get past them. Like milestones.

And of course, the "group" depending on their levels of maturity, lifestyles etc don't want to let go ! So there's quite a lot of pressure on anyone who seems to be prioritizing otherwise. It's ugly - really. Borders on Jr High level of peer pressure :(

So, question is - what's your 'sensible' and prudent reaction ? I suspect you know :)
You have to trust his ability to reason clearly, empathasize with the position he's in, try to be supporting and loving. How you do this depends on his personality. I like to try to keep things light - bordering on humorous. But that can exacerbate issues with people sensitive to it.

And I wouldn't hesitate to express to him that you 'know' the dynamic, that these guys have NO respect or love for you, and that you trust him to not let them grind you into the carpet when you can't be around to defend yourself. Only simple respect - right ? That 'should' be nuff said ?

Beyond that, you can't handle the relationship like you would a child. He's a big boy. If he's going to be that easily influenced by other people in his life, you may as well find it out now and confront it. And HE needs it as part of his growing up process. It's all about making decisions & setting priorities in our lives. This is a bridge he has to cross eventually. In general, the sooner the better. For you all.

Good luck and keep us posted !

GS
 
I completely agree with GroundedSpirit. Sit tight LR and have faith that both of your men will handle this appropriately. It seems like you want them to prevent it this time around. The problem with that is years have passes and these men may have grown a bit in their own lived and may be less inclined to be involved in other people's lives. By them having a just in case talk you might end up getting exactly what you don't want.. Being under the magnifying glass again. So maybe give both your men and these other men the benefit of the doubt.

Something happened over the weekend with my boyfriend and his "brother." Including my boyfriend there are 5 "brothers" , friends that turned into family.
The one he is closest with decided it was time for him to voice his distaste for me. It went along the lines of I'm playing him ect ect ect at the end of the rant he said "if I see her again I will spit on her and if she's close enough I would hit her."

As soon as the words left his mouth my bf stood up and left. The next morning he went back a rwturned the sword that was a gift and told him to save it for his son. It was a HUGE statement. His friend admits he would never hit a woman, but he's not sorry about any of it. They haven't spoken since. The door is open and we are waiting for him to see the err of his ways, but we can't force it. The whole point is it's one thing to not like someone else but you can still show respect. I knew nothing about what happened until it was final, but I would have figured that we would make excuses for his friend because he loves him so much.. But he did the right thing all on his own. No push from me. Take a deep breath LR and have some faith in your boys
 
uhoh! I'm on my new phone and it won't let me edit and it's got a teeny weeny keyboard! I'll try to get on tonight to fix my horrible typos.
 
I don't know, I kind of think I would have had the same reaction. The second my husband got the call to come play, I would feel that he should have stood up and said, "Hey, you said some s**tty things about my wife/partner and I don't want to be around that." Would he have said that? Pretty unlikely. It took me 15 years to get him to tell his father that we decided as a couple that I would be a stay-at-home mother and I wasn't a sponge and I wasn't getting a job so get over it. Would my boyfriend have said that? I really, really doubt that--it's not in his nature. Would my girlfriend have said that? In a hot minute. And she would have given them a piece of her mind and a clear picture of how their behavior would change. Would I have said that? I hope so, but I've been weak and dumb in the past.

What is your ideal outcome here? Do you just want some rules laid out? Do you want it enough to prevent your boys from socializing? What is your priority here? Do you want your boys to hang out with these friends (who would have thought we'd have to socialize our partners like we socialize our kids?) enough to tolerate their bad behavior in the past on probation? With the understanding that misbehavior gets you booted until you can behave in a respectful manner? Do you trust your boys to figure out that they don't want to be around people who think they have a right to judge you?

For myself, I know that I can't control what other people say or do behind my back, but they darn well better show polite behavior to my face or I don't come back. I think I would give everyone the benefit of a doubt--because I think it's good for my boys to socialize, and because I know my husband is a social boy and because I know that Sunday won't unless he's prodded, and because it's been a while and maybe the others have learned some manners. I would have to trust that my boys will have good sense and not spend time with someone who is disrespectful to me. I would complain a lot in the background. :) I don't have any experience with people who were as confrontational as they've been with you, but they tend to be threatened by strong women. Perhaps it would be helpful to discuss with Maca and GG what they will do if certain criticisms are mentioned? It might help reassure you that they do know what to do if the situation comes up.

Sorry that I probably rambled. The bottom line is...I'd give it a chance and see what happened. But I truly sympathize with you. I hate when I have to be the bigger person to people who don't deserve it. But I have found often that it paid off, and I was able to repair or build at least a working relationship with the other people.
 
The vocal judgement of friends or other people is something we all deal with from many areas. There is judgement about Redpepper from my more traditional friends and there is judgement towards me from some of our poly friends. This is why I am selective in who I let know the details of my relationship; some would push me very hard and I have no issue with using other forms of communication to encourage some one to shut up if they are aggressively attacking those I love or my own principles and beliefs.
 
What about getting everybody together in one room and saying, "Look, we're all adults now. Certain things have happened over the years and it's time to clear the air once and for all. Here's the deal..."

Etc.

This does not sound very complicated to me as an outsider. I think it's one of those deals where it's pretty simple but it LOOKS complicated to someone who has been in the thick of it the whole time.
 
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What about getting everybody together in one room and saying, "Look, we're all adults now. Certain things have happened over the years and it's time to clear the air once and for all. Here's the deal..."

Etc.

This!
 
What about getting everybody together in one room and saying, "Look, we're all adults now. Certain things have happened over the years and it's time to clear the air once and for all. Here's the deal..."

Etc.

This does not sound very complicated to me as an outsider. I think it's one of those deals where it's pretty simple but it LOOKS complicated to someone who has been in the thick of it the whole time.
I certainly didn't think it was complicated either-but it's blowing up into a nightmare now.

My bottom line is this-

the RESPONSIBLE way to "rebuild a friendship" with people who've shown themselves to be disrespectful and immature, is to address the prior behavior FIRST and if they agree that the behavior is in the past as a "well I was young and dumb" then you move forward.
NOT putting the horse before the carriage and saying "well I want to be friends with them so I'm going to test the waters by bringing in a NEW person-your husband specifically-but leave YOU out because they've always hated you, and if they like him maybe then they will be willing to stop hating you.

IF there had been no recurring issues-I might see it differently.

But the most important thing to ME in a relationship is loyalty.

Hanging out with people who openly talk crap about your significant other-promotiing your significant other's OSO's to build relationships with those people as well IS NOT LOYALTY.

I don't give a SHIT if they are men or women or dogs. You don't get kudos from me by choosing to maintain relationships with people who treat your loved ones like crap.

IF it had been a both way thing (I had been a bitch to them AND they had been assholes to me) THEN I could see the complication in him wanting to say "HEY EVERYONE-can we try to make peace etcetcetc" but the reality is that I haven't done ANYTHING to any of them-and he well knows it.
Their issue with me was all fabricated from their own ideas without any input from me. I never did him wrong. I never did them wrong. They were never a part of my life, never even so much as hung out with me ONE TIME (aside from the two brothers who both openly admit that they hate me because the other guys do).

Frankly-no I don't trust GG to do the right thing. IF that was his priority-he would/could have done it many many times over the last 14 years. His idea is that if he just plays nice long enough it will all blow over.
But it won't.

Maca already laid it on the line last night amidst a dramatic scene that he's not going to participate BECAUSE it would be wrong to promote a relationship with anyone who treats someone in his family like crap, that until THAT issue is resolved no forward progress can be made (GG doesn't want to bring it up, discuss it etc until AFTER they've all gotten to know Maca and "maybe that will help them accept LR"), AND
because as my DOM it's his job to protect me and my interests first.

SO-I guess where things stand for now is that Maca on his own made the right choice.
GG is now pissed and hurt and feels like he's being told how to handle his relationships..........
I actually told him he could do as he see's fit-but I have to do what I see fit as well and I'm not going to participate NOR allow my child to participate in relationships with people who are emotionally abusive to me. I can't think there is a whole lot more to say from my end.

:(
 
sorry-got interrupted so I hit post so it wouldn't time out.


Ygirl-I have suggested MANY times over the years having an "everyone sit down and air it out" discussion.

The guys won't meet with me,
and GG doesn't want to do that.
AND
has been clear that he won't do it before or during the game nights....

So-the REASON that won't happen is that he won't do it.

THAT is one of the key things I'm pissed about.

MY perception is that he isn't willing to make a stand for me, for us, for our relationship. I'm tired of being his "dirty little secret" to the people who DO fucking know I exist.

I dont' mean that in a poly way-I mean AT ALL. As a friend, as a lover, as the mother of his ONLY biological child-I'm just the hidden girl who is never with him when he see's his friends.

Ok-I better shut up. Not the time. .
Sorry.
 
In that case, then it should be GG who invites everyone over and leads the discussion on "clearing the air". But, I don't see that happening if he is still stuck in high-school mode.

Sometimes people need to be told what is the right thing to do. In your case, you need to insist that he do the right thing. Perhaps he doesn't know what that is, or needs to hear it from someone else.

Grown men, when they get together, can show a remarkable aptitude for regressive behaviour.

At least Maca seems to be able to see the forest through the trees.

ETA: I wrote this while you were writing post #16. I was right after all. Your boyfriend/best friend/biological father of your youngest child/roommate/partner/lover/etc. needs to grow the fuck up like, YESTERDAY.
 
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I have told him that Ygirl.

I'm so hurt, sad, disheartened, disgusted, disenchanted, angry, etc right now I can hardly speak.

He feels like I am "not allowing him to do this his way."

BUT-his way is NO WAY.

It's not a "my way" or "your way" situation.
It's a functional healthy way or a non-functional not healthy way.

I've been out of highschool for too many years for these types of games.

I don't even have anything nice left to say about it.

I know-it's not TYPICAL for all of you to see me just so upset I can't even say something nice.

But-now you know-it does happen.

I don't know that there is anything LEFT to say really.
I've already said it.

I told Maca not 5 minutes ago-the most important thing in a relationship to me is Loyalty. Fidelity has NEVER been it, honesty has never been it, because honesty is a PART of loyalty-but loyalty isn't NECESSARILY a part of honesty.

Anyway-this strikes against the core of what MAKES a relationship for me.

Someone said they couldn't believe this hadn't come up before.

It has.

Just that now I'm not "just a friend". Friends can have friends who don't like each other. They still OUGHT to expect general respect but I'll leave that one for now.
When you are a family, living together, committed etc, then there is a responsibility to the GROUP that falls on each person. If you have no willingness to defend the group against attacks.... well then you have no family........

I pointed out to Maca, that this exact behavior from HIM in regards to his mother and his ex-wife was what caused the near demise of OUR relationship.
[he would say "LR isn't letting the kids come over because you allowed D to physically assault A with no consequence and that's an abusive and neglectful environment" instead of "WE are not letting..." and to his ex he just flat left town leaving me with the kid, dealing with her attempted kidnapping of my kids, no I'm not exaggerating, and repeated false allegations of abuse (all confirmed as intentionally fabricated by her own admission) due to her believing that if she got rid of me he'd come back to her]


So... I guess the next thing for me to figure out is, NOW what?
 
ETA: I wrote this while you were writing post #16. I was right after all. Your boyfriend/best friend/biological father of your youngest child/roommate/partner/lover/etc. needs to grow the fuck up like, YESTERDAY.

That's where I'm at right now. Written about the same way I would say it if I were inclined to SAY something.

I sort of wish I had a punching bag, but I fear it wouldn't be the same as clocking something real. (no I don't get violent, just saying I FEEL like it).
 
"I've been out of highschool for too many years for these types of games."

Yeah. You nailed the dynamic!

IMHO, some social groups develop touchstone beliefs which are used as social glue. Affirmation of the touchstone belief is seen as the measure of each individual's buy-in to the group. Sometimes they're harmless, like sports boosterism -- "The Bulls are the best" one guy says, and everyone else echoes, along with some excuses for past losses, etc.

In your case I suspect that there are one or two guys in leadership roles who are keeping the touchstone myth going: "LR is a bitch, always was a bitch, and always will be a bitch." Everyone else is obliged to either affirm the myth or risk taking a downgrading in the group hierarchy.

You are EXACTLY right: it is juvenile, tribal-clique behavior. Irrational, hurtful, hypocritical, and mean as a bag full of blacksnakes. And it is extremely hard to confront in a group context. If you and Maca and GG were to sit down with the group and try to hash things out then I would predict one of two immediate outcomes:

1. The leader(s) and their major sycophants will immediately challenge every point you make. They will use emotional, irrational arguments designed to provoke an angry response, and when you finally can't take it and blow up they will fold their arms and say, "See? We're right."

2. The group will outwardly agree to some of your points. Watch the unofficial leader(s), though: their eyes will be masked, they will be holding back. As soon as you are gone they'll say, "OK, this proves it: see what an utter bitch she is?" It will be completely irrational, but it will be a litmus test and anyone who disagrees will take a group thrashing.

Again IMHO, if you really need to tackle this you might think about cutting the best of the cattle out of the herd. Talk to the most sympathetic and open of the guys individually. Get them away from the leader(s) and the sycophants and try for a rational and emotional connection.

This group dynamic is really snotty. I am incredibly fortunate in that there are several conscious minds in my workgroup. When the group-think gets going there's one guy in particular, Steve, who gets a kind of bored, sleepy look on his face. When the group-thinkers have all grunted and beat their chests about whatever irrational myth they're affirming then Steve chimes in with something slightly off-topic and funny as hell that deflates the whole thing.

Anyway. It sounds like Maca is golden. Lean on him.

Don't depend on GG. But I might suggest that his apparent weakness is understandable: there are millennia of chimp-style social reflexes working in the lowest levels of his mind, and we all have those reflexes -- the good and the bad. (I love the post-coital reflex, for instance, because it generates such wonderful pillow-talk sessions.)

Be kind, be generous, but don't rely on anyone for things they are not yet conscious enough or aware enough to provide. Help them grow if they can, maybe.

--------

Oh, hell, what I've written sounds all high-minded and self-confident, doesn't it? It's not. Take it all as tentative guesswork and half-baked goofball analysis.

I'd love to read more as the situations unfolds, though...
 
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