b) Carma, if SK were acting decently, your reaction to his involvement with Barbie wouldn’t seem very poly to me. I can sympathise with your thinking that it’s “Moving waaaaaaay too fast for me!!!”, but your reaction seems to have to do with more than just the speed of it all. However – as I make clear in d), I don’t believe that SK was acting decently. As others have already pointed out, this isn’t a poly problem: it’s a relationship problem, with a heavy dose of dishonesty at the root. I just want to point out that SK isn’t the only one being dishonest. He’s just the most blatant and extreme in it. Frankly, it seems to me that poly was just hunky-dory for you as long as were the one with two lovers. When SK got involved with somebody else, you “freaked”. Is that poly? Or selfishness?
c) Barbie (judging from the hearsay) wasn’t putting the brakes on. She was told by this attractive guy that:
i) his wife was neglecting him.
ii) they were into this thing called polyamory, that gave him permission to have a scene with her [Barbie]. What’s more, the wife was encouraging him to do so. “So it’s not cheating”.
Whether she believes in polyamory or not (she might believe that he’s heading for a divorce, and that if she’s patient, he’ll be all hers), she’s NOT cheating. She has been told that the wife knows about her and OKs the relationship. She’s making a play for a guy she’s fallen for, she’s pulling out all the stops. I – for one – can’t blame her for that. Can you? Can you understand why I believe that you NEED to talk with her... and LISTEN to her?
d) Unless SK comes on here and explains his behaviour, unless I’ve got to believe that you [Carma] are twisting things WAY out of true, my take is that SK WAS cheating. (Has he stopped by now?) He was lying to you. And – according to him – to her. And he was making you suffer. This might have been his way for getting revenge for your earlier cheating on him. Whatever. He had this GF who was treating him like Mr. Perfect, and he was rubbing your nose in it!:
1) He lied to you in such OBVIOUS ways because he wanted you to KNOW that he was. (Have you read
the book “Games People Play” by Eric Berne? I haven’t got a copy here, but I remember one game called “Cops And Robbers” where the robber NEEDS to be caught. It’s essential to his “game”. And the game is dysfunctional.) That time (later in this thread, I’m going by memory here) when he interrupted an important ’phone conversation with you to take a call from her on his other line and told you that the other call was from his boss, I’m pretty sure that he wanted you to find out that lie, too.
2) He made obvious to you that he was lying to her.
I am pretty sure I know most of what's been said between them because he has shown me his text conversations with her.
And how’s THAT for a great method of rubbing your nose in it ? All her lovey-dovey texts to him.
3) The following behaviour is mind-boggling:
Sundance was invited to go to a family gathering tonight with the new gf. Moving waaaaaaay too fast for me!!! [...] He says he won't go if it upsets me so much. But he keeps saying how hurt and disappointed she is going to be. [...] It feels like it is happening so fast. I honestly did not anticipate the family thing coming on so soon. [...] Another red flag: after all the crying I've done all last night and this morning, after him telling me he'd cancel, come to find out just a few minutes ago, he still hasn't canceled on her. Maybe this was really important to him? He doesn't want to hurt her [...] I told him to go, so he doesn't have to break his word. We'll deal with the fallout later. [...] Sundance went to her family dinner.
I went to NYC for 5 days and it was really hard leaving Sundance, feeling unsettled with our current status. I was pretty preoccupied the whole trip, which is too bad because I usually just have a blast with my daughters.
I arranged a babysitter for him one of the nights, he wanted to go out "solo." Surprise, she ended up driving into town. (Does he really think I am supposed to believe that wasn't the plan all along? Why even pretend? I'm not sure. Maybe it seems less intentional that way -- ?)
Whoa! Tiny detail: This is this “wonderful father” that you brag about, and YOU have to arrange the babysitter? Sorry, just an unimportant detail... The “Surprise, she ended up driving into town.” is the important thing. And it gets worse!:
Before I left I asked him please not to have her come to our house while I was gone. I would like to meet her before she comes to my home. I don't think that is being unreasonable. Besides the fact that I am not the greatest housekeeper in the world, and I am embarrassed that the house is not tidy (I'm really ashamed of the state of my closets, for example!), I also did not want her being with my sons without even meeting me first.
Well, the boys were in the house with a babysitter, and Sundance let her peek in the windows. He says she begged him to let her come see the house. (But he did say he had straightened up before he left. Therefore I know he had every intention of letting her peek in). I'm not sure how I feel about this. A little like he wants to push everything right to the edge, you know???
This is a real doozy ! And you’re “not sure how [you] feel about this”???!!! Well, what do you think about the following hypothetical scenarios?:
A) “Before I let him go on his first date with her, I asked him please not to have sex with her. I would like to meet her before that. I don't think that is being unreasonable. Well, he did fuck her. He says she begged him. (But he did say he had bought condoms on the way over to her place. So it’s alright: no damage done.)”
B) “Before he went out burgling, I asked him please not to hurt anybody, that if he got caught, I’d rather wait for him to get out of prison than for him to shoot his way out. He promised me... but took a loaded pistol along, ‘just in case’.”
Come ON, Carma! This guy has been stomping all over your wishes, your feelings. And he’s been doing it in a pre-meditated way. Does he USUALLY “straighten up” before he leaves the house? OK, maybe I’m jumping to conclusions: maybe he did that for the babysitter... But that doesn’t change the fact that he DID let her peek into the window. And then told you about it.
And that’s another thing. He tells you all about it: the oral sex in the park in the moonlight, the gifts that she gives him, the texts they send each other. Do you give him a blow-by-blow report of your dates with BC? One thing is honesty. A totally other thing is rubbing your nose in it.
This is
the most dedicated husband anyone could imagine. [...] I am so lucky to have his love.
??? He’s watched you falling apart, kicking yourself, swimming (almost drowning) in feelings of guilt, and did he try to reassure you, support you, convince you that he loved you? (Aside from “We made love this morning and it was more passionate than it's been in a loooong time. SLOW. And lots of deep kissing. Lovely!” Hardly altruistic support of you on his part. You felt guilty, so he got greater sex.) And that:
when he gets home he's going to be so surprised! I sent all the kids to grandma's, I'm making a perfect dinner, I'm going to have candles lit and sexy music playing and me wearing a slinky something when he walks in that door!
I sent him out there hungry and hurting. I am going to vow not to do that again. I love that man!
“[How To Become] The Complete Woman”!!!