Poly principles vs. mono principles

C

Ceoli

Guest
So let's lay it out there. What's the difference?

I've recently been a part of a few conversations (not just here but in life and on other boards) that brought to light the amount of assumptions people make within and without the poly community. Assumptions such as people who elect to keep relationships open do so out of a "grass is always greener" mentality or out of some kind of ethical sluttiness. Or that open relationships are not conducive to having stable families, etc. As a poly single, I've dealt with all sorts of assumptions about my life and relationships from the poly community from people questioning whether I'm poly at all to people assuming I'm just in it for sexual exploration and nothing more. Or that because I have not had a long term monogamous relationship, I will never be equipped to have meaningful poly relationships.

Those assumptions run the other way too with many poly people viewing monogamy as "less evolved" or a product of social conditioning. Or that people are monogamous because they are insecure and haven't grown enough in themselves to question social conditioning etc...

I see a lot of these underlying assumptions in many discussions and for me, they cause an inability to understand and thus create frustration and hurt on all sides.

Honestly, I see very few principles that can be named "poly principles". The same thing that makes a poly relationship healthy is going to make a monogamous relationship healthy regardless of whether it's an open, closed or any other kind of relationship. Commitment is commitment. Levels of commitment can differ from relationship to relationship, but I don't see exclusivity as a measure of that. A monogamous exclusive relationship can be less committed than an open polyamorous one.


So let's unpack this. Where do the differences in principles *actually* lie between these two models of relationships? Are (or should) ideas like commitment and insecurity viewed differently in a poly or mono context?
 
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I'm not sure if this is what you're after, but this is my spin.

When I'm thinking in mono terms, these "rules" seem to sprout and cause lots of angst for me.

(even though I'm bisexual, I say "he" in this context because it's a package in my head, the one that was taught to me as how I'm supposed to be)

- He must make all the first moves
- He must commit to me early on
- I would even say, he had better commit to me (I hear my aunt saying this)
- He better not look at other women
- It is his job to meet my needs
- He must desire me physically and sexually, love me with integrity, sacrifice for me, etc.

That sort of stuff.

The man I'm sort of seeing, 'R' was approached by an ex of mine not long ago. My ex asked him, "So, are you two dating?". 'R' replied "We're enjoying each other's company." This doesn't fit at all into the principles layed out for me by my family. When 'R' said this to me, I felt happy. We're not going too fast, we are definitely enjoying each other's company when we do see each other and my boundaries are feeling very honoured.

When I said this to my aunt, she got on her high horse and I knew she was applying all those rules that fall under the category of, "He had better...". It wasn't enough that he is enjoying my company, he's supposed to be doing much more for me as a responsible, reliable, monogamous, hetero partner for her niece.

Poly principles, in my life anyway, make all of that not only irrelevant, but painful, (which makes it very difficult to explain to my aunt how happy I am).

What matters most to me is that I be heard and understood. That I be free to express the amount of love that I feel, (all kinds of love, not simply romantic). That I be allowed to ask for what I need and desire, (doesn't mean I'll get it). And it matters a lot to me to know that someone I care about feel cared about.

Poly feels much more fluid. Maybe one person doesn't fill my sexual needs, but connects with me on another level that helps us both grow and brings us both happiness. In mono world, there would be a lot of discussion about how to have those unmet needs met by my partner who is falling short. How icky.

The principles I operate on in poly involve honesty, (still working out how much honesty though... does a partner need to know all of my inner ramblings, insecurities, etc?), concern and awareness for where everyone is at and willingness to negotiate.
 
- He must make all the first moves
- He must commit to me early on
- I would even say, he had better commit to me (I hear my aunt saying this)
- He better not look at other women
- It is his job to meet my needs
- He must desire me physically and sexually, love me with integrity, sacrifice for me, etc.

That sort of stuff.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not particularly looking for any specific kinds of replies, just some discussion (though I can be pretty relentless when discussing ideas).

I found what you posted really interesting, but it got me wondering- are those principles of monogamy or principles of insecurity or social conditioning that drive those qualifications? Is there a way to separate monogamy from social conditioning?

The principles I operate on in poly involve honesty, (still working out how much honesty though... does a partner need to know all of my inner ramblings, insecurities, etc?), concern and awareness for where everyone is at and willingness to negotiate.

Again, I guess I'm wondering. Are these principles that are exclusive to poly relationships? It seems to me that these are principles that work well in any kind of healthy relationship.
 
are those principles of monogamy or principles of insecurity or social conditioning that drive those qualifications? Is there a way to separate monogamy from social conditioning?

In my experience, monogamy was socially conditioned. I can remember as far back as my childhood crushing on lots of people and loving being in their energy. I got scolded by a cousin for flirting with his friend and closed myself off a lot. I've been teased by friends throughout the years about my dating style. I crush often, love easily and love the interactions that happen with people. I tend to find beautiful things in most people and can love those things, but this has often been seen as wrong, flighty, asking for trouble, scattered, whatever...

So, I think those qualifications are definitely socially conditioned. For me, they are synonymous with mono. As soon as I become exclusive with someone, the old story plays.

The poly principles I listed can definitely be present in monogamous relationships, (though willingness to negotiate then has limits). For me, they're not. Monogamy is what I think I'm supposed to do. Not what I want. So, when doing something I think I'm supposed to do, I do it the way I think I'm supposed to do it.
 
Overall question-I don't know.

I guess for me I don't care one way or another if someone is poly or mono-it really has very little baring on me. But I've been poly my whole life and for some reason that has always been a problem for the people around me.

I think in truth most of the "functional rules" are actually the same-but people are conditioned to think of them as different.

Great topic-hopefully with some time to think on it I can elaborate more!
 
I have thought about this at length before. I came to the conclusion, that I don't care either... It isn't the relationship "style" that is important to me... just the items in my previously posted relationship death list. That stuff applies to both styles of relationships. This is from a journal of mine:

"I have done alot of reading on this subject and have come to another epiphany. Polyamory is like any other relationship model. I say this because it involves all the good and the bad of any other relationship. Ideally, a good relationship, be it monogamous or polyamorous should involve honesty, care, compassion, communication, respect, appreciation for who each other is as individuals, freedom to be themselves, and growth.

The only difference is the number of people and relationships involved. All relationships are hard, all require work... I do NOT subscribe to the belief that one style is harder than another, or that one style is more "evolved" than another. Because truthfully, I don't think everyone is wired to be monogamous and to maintain a happy, healthy monogamous relationship for life is just as spiritual as maintaining a happy polyamorous one.

In monogamy it may be harder to find ways to "keep the spark alive" so you have to be creative. It may be harder to remember that you are individuals and not become codependent. It may be harder to stay emotionally and sexually faithful - but you do it, because when done right, it can be incredibly fulfilling!

In polyamory, it may be harder to make quality time for your lovers and make sure they feel special in your relationship. It may be harder to confront jealousy and feelings of ownership when faced with them head on. It may be harder to develop and maintain a deep, meaningful connection when your life is full with "distraction" or other possibilities."

Just a thought...
 
i don't care ethier,
but this is something i have thought about too,

i find it intresting that i am challange frequently by others on my poly life/setup. They feel they have some kind of right to judge me becasue what i do is not what is normally done, and yet i would never start judging someone who had chossen monogomy.

mono people often ask me questions about being poly
how can you love more than one
do you get jelous etc... i always answer honestly because i do want to educate people about how i live and how it can be done and often when i answer there questions they start to get defensive, saying i could never do that, i love my parnter to much to share etc...
and my usual reply is,
that i am not trying to convince you to be poly i am only answering your quetsions that you asked me about my life and my choice,

the bottom line is the principles that make a poly relationship a sucess are very similar to a mono one,
honesty, comunication and love,

Jools
 
Commitment is commitment. Levels of commitment can differ from relationship to relationship, but I don't see exclusivity as a measure of that. A monogamous exclusive relationship can be less committed than an open polyamorous one.


Everything you are about to read is in my own humble opinion :D

You are absolutely correct that a monogamous relationship can be less committed than a poly one.

A person can be committed to aspects of the relationship at varying degrees. But, sexual/intimate exclusivity within a monogamous relationship is the key to defining the commitment two people make to each other.

Commitment to a monogamous relationship is based on being exclusive. Exclusivity and commitment go hand in hand. That is the appeal for many in monogamous relationships. That "having someone for yourself" is the fundamental core of committing to a monogamous relationship. Don't take my word for it....ask any monogamous couple if commitment to the relationship means they are intimately/sexually exclusive.

Why direct energy trying to understand the monogamist ideal of commitment when you have no desire to apply it in your own life is my question?

Define it the way you chose to use it in your life.

As a side note:
To say that monogamous relationships lead to cheating is a contradiction. Monogamous relationships only involve two people. When another person becomes involved there is no longer a state of monogamy. It is a state of deception and becomes it's own entity hidden within the preception of monogamy through acting monogamistic.

Yes there is pressure to conform to society's idea of a monogamous relationship, but there is also peer pressure to conform to what is the idea of a polyamorous relationship. Ceoli has experienced this, as have Redpepper and me. Polyfidelity is not the social norm within our community so therefore we are subjected to the same sort of bias, judgement that mainstream monogamists impose on polyamorists.

Lastly, acting monogamist, as is dictated by social norms is different than being monogamous as is dictated by nature. One is governed by established external rules; the other is a product of internal wiring.
 
A person can be committed to aspects of the relationship at varying degrees. But, sexual/intimate exclusivity within a monogamous relationship is the key to defining the commitment two people make to each other.

Commitment to a monogamous relationship is based on being exclusive. Exclusivity and commitment go hand in hand.

They may go hand in hand, but I still don't see them as the same thing. It could be that in a monogamous context exclusivity is a necessary factor for it to be monogamous, and you can even say that that monogamous people make a commitment to be exclusive, but again, they are two different factors. The commitment is what you do. The exclusivity of monogamy is one particular way to manifest and follow through with a commitment. It is but one of many ways a person commits to a relationship. It just so happens that it is a necessary factor for monogamy.

Why direct energy trying to understand the monogamist ideal of commitment when you have no desire to apply it in your own life is my question?

Well, why do you post about your views on monogamy and commitment in other places? Why do you post about polyamory if you're monogamous? To get ideas out there and discuss them. I have continually seen on this board, on other boards and in many discussions the idea that commitment is measured in terms of exclusivity, i.e. somehow relationships eventually evolve into some form of fidelity and are somehow more committed than relationships that remain open. I've also seen a lot of judgement behind many of those assumptions. These are the kinds of assumptions that continue to drive negative stereotypes around polyamory. Plus it creates a false dichotomy between what it means to have a healthy mono or a healthy poly relationship.

And lastly, when opinions are put out there that drive negative stereotypes of any kind, I'm going to challenge them. When people start saying things like "It's only my opinion, but I think gay people are more promiscuous than straight people. But that's just my opinion. If it's ok for them, then more power to them!", of course people aren't going to remain silent. It may seem innocuous (though I imagine it doesn't sound so innocuous to us) but assumptions like that do a lot of damage and create a lot of prejudice that translates into an entire group of people in our society being marginalized in life altering ways. Those same types of assumptions can be harmful when applied to poly people. Because the idea that being in an open relationship is less committed pervades our society. It can damage poly families, it can disempower women who would have to hide their nature in order to not lose their families, it can marginalize men who practice ethical non-monogamy. I have seen people almost lose their kids because of such assumptions about commitment. It can do and has done a WHOLE lot of damage to people who choose to live this way.

So yes, I'm going to challenge these views, even if they're only opinions.
 
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All relationships are hard, all require work... I do NOT subscribe to the belief that one style is harder than another, or that one style is more "evolved" than another.

Amen! And your list of the varying challenges each relationship model faces is great.
 
I do NOT subscribe to the belief that one style is harder than another

Except if the relationship style does not fit you. (Gay trying to be straight, poly trying to be mono)...
 
Principles ?

Hi Ceoli,

Being a bit cautious of the term "principles" we'll try to just put out one or two "concepts" that might be seen as some type of dividing lines between poly & mono outlooks with the required disclaimer IOHO (In Our Humble Opinion)

1> In poly-minded folk, there's an acceptance of the fact/possibility that it's possible to have deep feelings/ caring/emotional bonding (love?) about someone other than one's primary mate and that the existence of this is not viewed as a threat to the primary relationship.

2> The expression of this caring in a sexual manner is accepted when it leads in that direction. It doesn't always, nor is it a requirement, but if it does it's just acknowledged as one component of a close relationship.

It would seem that these basic tenets seem to be the line in the sand in most cases - IOHO

As a sidenote we saw a comment somewhere in a forum or somewhere this morning stating that a mono relationship was much more complicated to maneuver than a poly relationship. LOVE to know how that conclusion got drawn <chuckle>
 
So yes, I'm going to challenge these views, even if they're only opinions.


I simply live in a world where I don't feel the need to challenge things. I'm glad for that, it enables me to focus on the reality of my life and not worry about what the rest of the world thinks or does. I don't need approval or permission to be comfortable in how I chose to live my life. I get the sense that you do...I hope you get there, Ceoli. I truly do.
 
I simply live in a world where I don't feel the need to challenge things. I'm glad for that, it enables me to focus on the reality of my life and not worry about what the rest of the world thinks or does. I don't need approval or permission to be comfortable in how I chose to live my life. I get the sense that you do...I hope you get there, Ceoli. I truly do.

You misread my intentions then, Mono. I'm not looking for nor do I need approval or permission to live the life I lead. I have already made those choices and am quite comfortable with them. I already have what I need to live my life happily. And part of that is having the strength to challenge prejudices and misinformation. Both within my self and in other people. This doesn't take away from my inner peace. It takes away from my inner denial and thus allowing my peace to be more authentic in myself. Good for you that you don't feel the need to do that.

Perhaps you won't ever have to face a situation where such prejudices marginalize you or take away your rights. That's great for you. And honestly, I probably won't have to face a situation like that either (though I also know that it could happen). But because I'm a human being, I feel it a key aspect of my humanity to do my part to create a world that provides justice and understanding for all people. Not just my little isolated corner. Challenging prejudice isn't about "asking for permission or approval". It's about standing up for yourself and expecting that you will be able to live your life with your choices without having to pay a huge societial price. It's a huge difference. Gay and lesbian and transgendered people aren't asking for permission when raising issues. And neither am I.
 
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Commitment

Hi All,

I think the whole topic of "commitment" and it's agreed to definition would be a great topic for it's own thread ! It's undoubtedly one of the most complex issues involved and therefore most subject to misinterpretation.
Really liked the comment Mono threw in about being aware of what we say in public like this because of the likelihood of a large segment of the readers coming away with slanted views/understanding.
Anyone want to open a "Commitment" thread ? Anyone feel the need?
 
I simply live in a world where I don't feel the need to challenge things.

(This is a bit of a tangent and not very poly-specific but is a key point nonetheless.)

This right here is a privilege that most people in the world don't have. I also have that privilege but I choose to reject it in favor of a better understanding of humanity. This is exactly why I do anti-racism and anti-oppression work.
 
Hi Ceoli,

Being a bit cautious of the term "principles" we'll try to just put out one or two "concepts" that might be seen as some type of dividing lines between poly & mono outlooks with the required disclaimer IOHO (In Our Humble Opinion)

1> In poly-minded folk, there's an acceptance of the fact/possibility that it's possible to have deep feelings/ caring/emotional bonding (love?) about someone other than one's primary mate and that the existence of this is not viewed as a threat to the primary relationship.

2> The expression of this caring in a sexual manner is accepted when it leads in that direction. It doesn't always, nor is it a requirement, but if it does it's just acknowledged as one component of a close relationship.

It would seem that these basic tenets seem to be the line in the sand in most cases - IOHO

I would say that it doesn't even need the definition that includes the primary relationship since many people don't use that primary/secondary model in their relationships. But yes. The idea that one love doesn't threaten or replace another love seems to be at the center.

So is the difference that monogamy sees romantic love as a zero-sum game and polyamory doesn't?
 
(This is a bit of a tangent and not very poly-specific but is a key point nonetheless.)

I simply live in a world where I don't feel the need to challenge things

This right here is a privilege that most people in the world don't have. I also have that privilege but I choose to reject it in favor of a better understanding of humanity. This is exactly why I do anti-racism and anti-oppression work.



I'm a little lost in this Ceoli, please help me understand. I do not live as society tells me I am supposed to (poly relationship). I chose not to concern myself with the judgement of that society....how is that a right that others don't have? It's a choice.

If you are implying that I am not an activist or promoting the acceptance of poly relationships then you are correct. I'm not an activist and feel no need to push for acceptance. If people or society don't like how I live so what? I'm not asking for legal rights and am not doing anything illegal.
 
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