Should I "go first" since I've been most insecure?

Krazykitty

New member
Hi All,

I have not posted much and I'm so freshly new to polyamory it's insane. My husband and I started "negotiations" last month. Neither one of us has dated or anything else, outside of our relationship, so please bear with me. I hope this makes sense.

He and I have become so close since he asked for us to become polyamorous. It's brought out many issues that lay hidden between us and has washed them away or helped to bring them out. Some of my personal hang-ups have been healed.

Just for clarity, my husband and I have been together this time for 5 years, married for 2 years, but we were "off and on," I guess you'd say, for a long time previously. We have an almost-18-year old child together. Long story.

I am dealing with a desire to get a jump on the process of polyamorous dating and find someone else right away, before he can do so. My husband saw someone, a co-worker of mine, and that caused him to ask for a non-monogamous arrangement. I don't really know the girl, but I can't help comparing myself to her (finding myself deficient in looks, femininity, and fashion sense) and then pretty much coming to the conclusion that I need to locate a secondary partner, someone who thinks I am very beautiful.

I think this strategy might help to mitigate the effects of my husband's desires and the true things he's telling me. If another person might become involved with me, who would tell me how wonderful I look, I think this would make it bearable...

Is that unethical? I can exercise, put on more make-up, etc., but I'm still an average-looking 42-year old woman, and as long as he's fantasizing about this absolutely STUNNING 26-year old creature, I feel as if I'm fading into obscurity. This can't be right.

Please, please try to be nice... I don't even know what I'm feeling half the time... All I know is my heart breaks JUST a little (I'm getting better about it) when he starts going on and on about this girl. I know he's tried to tone it down, but I can tell he's practically salivating every time he even thinks of her.

I found her picture on Facebook. She's friend of a friend. I showed my husband last night and he went a little crazy. Our usual bedtime play and teasing turned into him being like, "I want to fuck other girls!!" I was trying to be nice and trying to find "compersion" of some sort when I found her picture, and that's what happened.

This is one reason I have so much fear of a time when he might actually start seeing her. I want a safe nest I can be in when/if this happens and I don't wanna be alone!! Does this make sense to anyone?

See, my husband rarely (I think it happened once) tells me I'm beautiful and in fact, I'm not, I guess. He tells me I'm "cute" sometimes. I'm kinda average looking, and also about 16 years older than the other girl. I can't really compare to the movie-star type beauty in my co-worker. Also I am not his "type": I'm very tomboyish and he likes the primped, preened, "girly" girls quite a bit better, to look at, that is.

He and I are together because of being basically soulmates (long story, like I said.) Life could not keep us apart and our life experiences are spiritually incredibly similar. We're not together so much because he thinks I'm so beautiful. So if he can go out and be with someone more beautiful than me, it makes sense to me that I should find someone soon, whose favorite women look a lot like me. I feel that this would pre-emptively fill the gap that would appear if/when my husband is actually seeing, being friends with, or sleeping with this woman that he finds so incredibly beautiful.

I have a funny feeling that I am wrong in this circumstance. I know I need to rely on myself emotionally, but it's just too damn hard. I'm hurting so much, especially about the looks/"beauty" issue. How can I get my needs met? Is it wrong to look for someone to date or hang out with, in order to prevent or mitigate being emotionally harmed later?

Can someone help me sort things out a little better? Is anyone else dealing with the issue of not being your primary partner's physical "type" or not as good-looking as your primary's "other" partner? How have others dealt with this sort of thing, if at all?

Thanks so much for taking the time to read my rambling post. PMs are welcome. :)
 
I think dating someone else to make you feel better will be addressing symptoms rather than the root issues. It could also backfire if you go faster than you can adapt to the new situations.

It sounds like you have some good security in your relationship, since you know you are connected together on more than a physical level. It may be that he doesn't feel drawn to the tomboy look, but I know a lot of guys who are.

If your husband does go on a date, I think it would be helpful for you find something to do during that time that makes you feel good. Watch chick flicks, go to a movie with a friend, take a relaxing bath, do crosswords, or whatever you like. A date is not a bad idea, but I worry it will be done to avoid dealing with the feelings you have.

I think you should find someone you want to date because they feel a need or a desire. Don't rush it, because you could wind up in a bad relationship.
 
I feel that this would pre-emptively fill the gap that would appear if/when my husband is actually seeing, being friends with, or sleeping with this woman that he finds so incredibly beautiful.

First of all, looks only get you so far. I'm sure you are aware of this by now or you'd never be with the guy this long. Second, it does sound like the two of you have some things to address in your relationship that adding more people is not only not the answer, but would actually complicate things for the worse. Third, I wouldn't want to be the new person getting involved with you only to come to find out that I was there to "pre-emptively fill a gap".


HOw does she feel about him? Has he talked to her? Gotten to know her as a person? Is she even open to dating someone in a non-monogamous context? I realize these questions are not what you are asking, but it matters as to how much of your husband's attitude is dictated by fantasy versus reality.
 
Hi Kitty,

Being male, I obviously can only relate from a distance to what I'm well aware of in the department of insecurities around looks, etc. But I CAN offer this.

The deeper parts of a relationship are so much more the glue that binds people than other superficial things like looks, body styles, etc. I think we all know this, but selectively forget it. :)

Bottom line, relationships aren't/shouldn't be a competitive sport. There will always be people who we might compare more and less favorably with ourselves on any number of issues. But if someone loves us, they love us for the qualities we have. We can't have ALL of them! And it's a non-issue.

From you're writing, I feel you're being unreasonably hard and critical of yourself. Fear will only make this worse. Believe in yourself. Obviously HE does. :) And trust that a shiny new toy can't add any depth that he desires deeply any more than you can.

I would just suggest you not put too much energy into being concerned about physical and sexual attractions. That's just not what's critical in a relationship in the long term. No relationship (that I've seen) can hold together based on sexual chemistry alone. There's other stuff more important in the long run.

But that doesn't mean that that sexual piece isn't nice to have at times. It's all in understanding the nature of the beast.

Just be yourself. You're obviously special. :)

GS
 
Good points, everybody. Thanks especially for this:
I wouldn't want to be the new person getting involved with you, only to come to find out that I was there to "pre-emptively fill a gap".

I wouldn't want to do that to someone either, especially if they were looking for a serious or dating-type relationship. This was my hurt talking, mostly. However, I have not ruled out a casual fling-type scene with someone (being totally honest about my intentions up front) to coincide with a potential date or hook-up between my husband and the "other" person.

And this:
Just be yourself. You're obviously special

Since I wrote the OP, my lovely husband and I have talked and many of the things mentioned in this thread were drawn out--

- The fact that superficial considerations aren't what keeps us together, it's the deep stuff.
- The fact that we are incredibly close and neither of us is going anywhere.
- Along with the knowledge that younger and prettier isn't "better," and I don't have to feel less than her just because we're different. I reach my husband's heart (and other parts!) in different ways.

It's a process I know I will be working on for at least a little while, but it's very worth it. I need to better deal with my issues around looks and being "beautiful," and then all of this will become less confusing, I'm sure.

Also, there is the fact that no dating, sex or even talking between the two of them is imminent, or even a distant possibility right now. It is all in the realm of fantasy. But just having the discussions about the possibility has helped us as individuals, and as a couple, I think.

I'm sure I'll have more to write later. Thanks for the words of wisdom and for caring!
 
Dear Kitty -

It pleases me to see that our input was helpful to you, and it also pleases me that you took it in the spirit which it was intended (trying to point out things that may not be obvious) instead of jumping to the conclusion that we are "judging" you, your husband, or your relationship(s).
 
Yup, this is the crazy edge of everything, where I apparently learn best. And I know at least SOMEONE here has been through something similar. Wisdom from the experiences of others is generally where it's at, if people are willing to share. I know also there are millions of thoughts in my head when I get anxious/depressed like this about his outside interests, perhaps none of which are accurate. It takes an outside viewpoint sometimes to show what's really going on, or to point out what's rational or important. Thanks again.
 
It may be that he doesn't feel drawn to the tomboy look, but I know a lot of guys who are.

>Enthusiastically raises hand<

>Requires cold shower<
 
Looks and Competition

It seems like you know what's up with the concern about looks. Everyone seems to have helped with that.

I was noticing, too, though, your feeling about being in competition with your husband. Naturally, we all know that this isn't the healthiest attitude, but I think it's understandable and predictable, as well as being damn uncomfortable. If it makes you feel any better at all, if you are up for a casual fling, that is very likely to be way easier for you to accomplish than for hubby, given the differences in how men and women react to these things.

I know it's not going to be popular to say this, but *shrug* you could "go first," if you want. It might help you transition to being okay with him going on, especially once you see that you won't be left out in the cold and that you can feel attraction for someone else without it changing how you feel about your spouse. As long as you are honest about what you're doing and treat all parties with respect, I don't see that as such a bad coping mechanism, even if it's not the ideal.
 
Glad to see you guys are communicating. :)

I feel that a lot of the relations between myself and others, and my wife's relations with others, have helped us build our own relationship. I very much empathize there, and am excited to see it. :)

I do want to add a tidbit from my perspective as a male about looks and beauty. My tastes evolve. Or more specifically, I don't have "tastes", I have many.

I've found the most gorgeous ladies-- beautiful slender bodies, bright eyes, beautiful hair, nice faces, et cetera. And then I've talked to them and they're immature, or stuck up, or whatever, on the list of things I don't like. And then I find them less attractive.

The opposite is true, as well. I've met people who I wouldn't ever have found attractive if I judged by their bodies alone. And yet, as I get to know them and like them, they become more and more attractive to me. In fact, I think my wife was one of these cases. I think I found her to be a really amazing friend before I started thinking she was hot.

Working on your own "attractiveness" is kind of a subjective thing, and attempts to address it from a physical perspective might as well turn "other guys" off as turn "new guys on".

To me, a "plain"-looking woman who walks into a room confidently and isn't afraid to strike up conversations is far more likely to get me thinking she's attractive than a model type who seems afraid to chat with me.

I know sometimes it's hard to feel confident enough to do that. I had severe body image issues for years, and while I'm more or less past them now, they creep up now and then. Enough that I felt a little nervous but DID participate in a nude, non-sexual event with about 15 friends over New Year's Eve. So I've been on opposite sides of that spectrum and know how it feels to have both perspectives. It can very much be done, and makeup and clothing are a tiny, tiny part of it.
 
If it makes you feel any better at all, if you are up for a casual fling, that is very likely to be way easier for you to accomplish than for hubby, given the differences in how men and women react to these things.

While maybe one can accurately generalize about sex/gender differences in this area, it's crucial to know that not all males or females will fit into such a generalization.:p
 
If another person might be involved with me that would tell me how wonderful I look, I think this would make it bearable. Is that unethical? I can exercise, put on more make-up, etc., but I'm still an average-looking 42-year old woman, and as long as he's fantasizing about this absolutely STUNNING 26-year old creature, I feel as if I'm fading into obscurity. This can't be right.

I won't have time to read everything, or say much more until tomorrow, but I wanted to point out that 26-year olds may be younger looking, and sometimes more beautiful, but there is nothing that compares to a wise, matured woman. I too am around your age and I really can't bear a lot of 26-year olds for too long. They are just in another world to me. I don't say that out of hate or judgment, but just that their life experience is so limited and eventually I get bored and just feel like I need more.

I dated a woman who was 25 when I was 40. She was/is lovely. I care about her and admire her intelligence. I find her attractive and very mature for her age, but eventually I found that the robustness of being more mature just wasn't there. There is a well-roundedness that comes from being older, a warmth of some kind. I can't seem to explain. I attune it to the fall rather than the summer of a person's life, somehow. Does that make sense? They each have a certain feel.

I think that your husband might well just want to fuck this woman and remember his youth. A bit of mid-life stuff going on, perhaps? I suspect that is all there is to it, but then I haven't read the whole thread yet. Sorry if I am wrong.

It's sad that you are taking this on.

No, I don't think that is unethical, but just plain hard! I understand your feelings as I look at my muffin top, skin that isn't as elastic anymore, tits that are beginning to sag and gray hair coming in. It totally get it! It sucks getting old... but I have decided that I must be loved for who I am or I'm outta there. I have no intention of allowing anyone to think I am in some way unworthy of love and admiration because I am older. I expect admiration and respect and therefore get it (at least in my mind :p which is all that matters).

Just for the record, and for what it's worth, from a woman who is loooooonging for some female lovin,' I find older women damned sexy without makeup and doing too much to make themselves look younger. I find it rather insecure and kind of repulsive to see women try to hard to attract others. I mean no disrespect in that. My desire just lies in fresh-faced, real bodies that are confident, healthy and show signs of being taken care of. Exercise, good food, laughter, confidence, happiness with themselves and smelling good (natural smell, that is) are a must for me. It's nothing to do with youth or looks.
 
just for the record, and for what it's worth, from a woman is loooooonging for some female lovin.' I find older women damned sexy without make up and doing to much to make themselves look younger. I find it rather insecure and kind of repulsive to see women try to hard to attract others. No disrespect... just my desire lies in fresh faced, real bodies that are confident, healthy and show signs of being taken care of. Exercise, good food, laughter, confidence, happiness with themselves and smelling good (natural smell, that is) are a must for me.

Okay, Redpepper, that does it. You are totally my kinda gal and I declare an official crush on you. :p
 
I won't have time to read everything, or say much more until tomorrow, but I wanted to point out that 26-year olds may be younger looking, and sometimes more beautiful, but there is nothing that compares to a wise, matured woman. I too am around your age, and I really can't bear a lot of 26-year olds for too long. They are just in another world to me. I don't say that out of hate or judgment, but just that their life experience is so limited and eventually I get bored and just feel like I need more.
I have dated younger women and older women than myself and while I agree with the tendency, I have found some pretty emotionally immature women in their 50s and some surprisingly mature women in their 20s. They tend to be the exception, rather than the rule, but I have been surprised on both sides.
 
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You guys are so awesome!! Thanks for the fresh perspectives, on youth, looks, thinking, everything. God, it's so refreshing to be able to just DISCUSS this stuff!! Does everyone else in our society just sweep everything under the rug, as a matter of course? I must say, it seems, polyamory (for us) has thrown everything dark and hidden into the light to be seen for what it is and dealt with appropriately, including personal feelings of inadequacy, self-worth issues, etc., etc.

Our polyamorous discussions have brought up many gender-related issues. It's interesting to think about the dynamic of what we're taught that it is to "be a woman" or "be a man" and how it relates to our sexuality and how we view ourselves. It might be hard for people to understand, but I have NEVER really been a " do make-up, do hair"-type person, only because, at an early age, I pretty much gave up on trying to look good as a girl and basically quit doing all that stuff. I was a very nice caterpillar, but didn't seem to blossom into the butterfly that other girls seemed to effortlessly become. Too many people were judgmental and critical at my attempts to fit in to the demands of the female gender.

I was gender-variant enough to make a decision to "be a man" and not care about any of that stuff... made my way through years of sexual conquests... Then I became a single mom for thirteen years. This period of "extreme alone time" (basically most of my twenties, plus a lot of my thirties) solidified even more my desire to resist femininity and all it entailed. I became a stubborn hermit and rejected almost everyone who was interested in me. It was a sexually-dormant phase. During that time I began to think that trying to look "like a girl" might be a good idea. I bought make-up and wore it at work and on the few dates I had. However, I have not really wanted to try too hard until now. It's just another phase of development, or poorly-timed adolescent experimentation, in my opinion.

I may have not wanted to go there in the first place, but only because my development was thwarted by school abuse and non-understanding adults. Now, I'm trying the whole "girl" thing, since I'd never really given it a shot when I went through puberty. I want to see where this all goes. It feels almost like a sex change of some sort, even though I've been solidly female-identified my whole life. (I'd wished I were a boy because of the convenience, not because I thought I was one.) If the "other girl" is causing me to actually think about and deal with this stuff, that's GREAT!
 
It's so exciting and wonderful that you are discovering and exploring both within yourself and within your relationship. It sounds like you are really on a roll with digging everything up that could be between you. It can be really scary at first. A lot of that stuff stays in the dark because it has such a potential to hurt. I can almost hear in your voice how eager you are to root it out, to turn it all into something even better. That's really respectable, and you should be proud of the progress you have made already. Isn't it nice to know that even if nothing more happens on the poly path, you two have already gained valuable insights?

I know everyone has already mentioned the "feeling attractive" issue, but I just couldn't let it lie. What I have seen and learned about it is a little counter-intuitive. I've got to suggest it, though. I would hate to see you chasing windmills.

So here it is: the feeling that you are an attractive person is NOT something that somebody else can give you. It doesn't matter how many people want you, it doesn't matter how much makeup you wear, it doesn't matter how heartfelt and plentiful compliments are, hell, it doesn't even matter how you really look! Yes, sometimes those things can provide a temporary burst, almost like a mood, but being and knowing you are attractive comes from within. No one else can give it to you.

They can't convince you. You have to believe it yourself first, before you can be receptive to positive reinforcement. It sounds silly, but really, it has VERY LITTLE to do with the outside world.

Well, I hope that helps somehow. Best of luck to you both and keep your faith in your communication!
 
I had a hard time reading your original post. Everyone has given great advice and insight, but I wanted to add one thing about older women.

By the time I was nineteen I had had a few similarly-aged sexual partners/relationships. (One at a time. I was a serial monogamist,) Then I had one night with a woman who was in her early forties. WOW! There was nothing as sexy as a woman who was fully confident in her sexuality, in her body and in her knowledge of what that body could do. She was very clear in what she wanted and changed my idea of what was truly sexy! I was a bit stunned, actually. I have since always been attracted to older women. (Is it okay to say that?)

It could just be my perspective, but young men today seem to have figured out how incredibly valuable experience in more "mature" women is. Sometimes I am frustrated that men seem to lose sight of this when they get older. Or perhaps they prefer women with less experience and therefore less expectations?

That's my two cents.
 
Posting again with new understandings. Thanks all, for your insightful replies.

I know that I am the only one that can change the way I feel about my looks. Even the cutest Suicide Girl has a chance of having low self esteem. Also, I know that confidence (of which I usually have a surplus) is very attractive.

I've been pretty immature in wanting to "do something" just to guard against emotional hurt. I need to find other ways besides another human to not allow myself to be hurt by my partner's desires and wishes. It's not fair to the other person to view them as having that type of purpose.

With that being said, if a friend and I find that we "like" one another, I will be honest with my husband and probably have a fling of some type, not to "pre-empt" him, but to gain more understanding of desires outside our relationship. As long as I'm safe and honest, I don't think it could hurt if it happened. I need to tell my husband all this now.
 
I remembered after I posted a time that my husband (Nerdist) was dating a younger woman. He is 33 and very mature. (He always has been, much more than I, who am 7 years older. He's wise beyond his years, I should say. It fits him better.) Anyway, he fell head over heels for a 25-year old. He tends to fall head over heels when he is in love, rather than work toward it slowly. He's either in love or not. Whereas I fall in love easily and deeply, but not blindly, if that makes sense.

So, she is 15 years younger than me, and just starting her relationship life, in terms of finding life partners. I was very threatened by this, as I was reaching an age milestone and feeling my age in terms of realizing I am middle-aged! Ahhh! How'd that happen? Not to mention she is cute, perky, has nice tits, smooth unwrinkled skin. All those things I used to be...

I felt just as you did, Krazykitty, in your first post. I can completely empathize. It reminded me reading it that I can bring different things to the table than anyone else. I am completely unique and worthy of love just as I am. It turned out that he thought she was far too immature relationship-wise and decided to stick to me for now. He told me it would be hard to find a woman that even comes close to the standard he has put me in. This made me feel very special. We talked at the time about the importance of reminding each other what our worth is in situations like that. and how just saying that we are special, loved, cherished, all those good things that make us feel connected, makes a huge difference.
 
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