Need some advice please.

dante8198

New member
Bear with me, this may be a long one.

CLIFFNOTES:
1. Happily married for 10 year. Swingers for 5 of that.
2. Met a single female that I hit it off with and have fallen in love with
3. Still love my wife more and more every day.
4. Discussed the poly lifestyle with my wife. She said no way, I would just have to suppress those feelings.
5. Feelings have grown and now its hard to have both relationships going.
6. At a cross roads. May lose one or the other and losing either of them makes me feel like I am going to puke. (please see last paragraph)

I am in need of some advice on what to do. I am being torn apart inside trying to figure it out on my own.

A little intro. I am happily married for almost 10 years to my wife Sara. She was my best friend in high school. I am a very giving guy. Never ask for much. Almost always give up my needs to please my partners needs. We have been into the swinging lifestyle for 5 years. We have a very strong relationship. Very open minded with lots and lots of communication. Thats the only way it works. In that 5 years I have made some close female friends, both single women and married women. My best friends have always been females. Most have moved on or left the lifestyle ... save one, we will call her Kim. Thats where things get a little complicated.

About a year and a half ago we met Kim through the car show scene, which I am a part of, so her and I pretty much hit it off right away. Pretty shortly after we started playing both as a 3 some and I played solo with her too. Kim and I became best friends pretty quick and have talked pretty much every day the full year and a half. My wife knows we talk everyday, knows we are best friends and knows we play solo from time to time. I don't hide any of that from her.

About a year ago I started to realize that I was having a lot of the same feelings for her as I did for my wife. I didn't know what was going on, but it just felt right. At the time I just kinda ignored it. It has grown to much more now though. I know Kim feels the same too because we have actually talked about it. We didn't try and stop those feelings. Just let them grow and played within the rules that Sara and I had set for swing lifestyle.

I realized and admitted to myself earlier this year that I love this woman and have talked to Kim about this too. She too feels the same. The part that had me going nuts was that I hadn't lost any of my feelings for my wife. I started doing some research earlier this year on the poly lifestyle and it just clicked with me. It just felt right and kinda explained a lot of what I have felt for a very long time. Like way back into my high school days.

A couple months ago I was having a conversation with my wife after SHE had recorded the married and dating shows off of showtime and was watching them. This was after my research into the lifestyle and while I was trying to figure out how to bring it up with her. I took the opportunity to talk to her and it didn't go so well. She really wasn't on the same page as I was on this one. I told her that it felt right for me and that I really think its how I am. She was hurt and didn't understand how I could love anyone but her. Didn't tell her that I had feelings for Kim, just that I felt like I could. The conversation ended in her saying I would just have to suppress this poly feeling and she just wasn't ever going to be into it.

Since that conversation it has been a little weird. She was friends with Kim, but has pulled away and sometimes gets a little jealous of me spending time with Kim. She has never once told me I couldn't talk to her or see her, but finds ways to intervene from time to time. I have had to cancel plans with Kim more than I would like and that has made it very hard on Kim and I. Things are fine with my wife and I but I have had to re assure her a few times when she thought I was pulling away. Have done real good showing her that nothing has changed though. She has said that herself. I have also felt a little bit of anger/resentment that I have to suppress these feelings.

This weekend we had a big car show in Vegas where Kim and I were together solo for a few days and had plans to spend Halloween night together then my wife was going to join us the next day. Well she decided to surprise us a day early and pretty much ruined our plans. Had some other preexisting plans for Thursday that Sara knew about and was invited to but said she didn't want to go. After the event was over she made a scene and left me with little other options than to follow her to smooth over what was simply me eating dinner with a couple hundred of my friends where Kim happened to be too. This was kind of a straw that has broken Kims back. She was very upset and ended up leaving Vegas early because she couldn't stand to have another night of fun with me ruined like that.

So here is where the advice is needed.

At this point I am at a cross roads. Kim is ok with the poly lifestyle but Sara isn't. The thought of loosing either of these women in my life makes me sick to my stomach. My relationship with Kim is worth fighting for. I feel like my only options are to either go to my wife and talk about the poly lifestyle again or to just suppress the feelings and hope I can get over the resentment. If I go to my wife and talk to her about the poly lifestyle and tell her about the feelings I am having she will be hurt and I risk losing her. If I don't, I risk losing Kim.

Is there any advice on how I can handle this situation? Do I stick up for my needs this time or just cower away and hope I can keep them buried without it hurting myself doing so?

Thanks in advance.
Chad
 
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I'm sorry you are hurting. :(

You could take the personalities out of the equation to see if you feel the same when there are no names. Here's how it would read if you remove the names:

At this point I am at a cross roads. I am in a non-poly relationship. The thought of not being in a poly relationship makes me sick to my stomach. (yes/no?)

My desire to be in poly relationship is worth pursuing. (yes/no?)

My options are

1) pursue a poly relationship
2) just suppress the feelings, stay in a non-poly arrangement and hope I can get over not being in a poly relationship.
3) Something else that I can't think of yet or am not aware of yet.​

If I break my non-poly relationship and state my desire to be in a poly relationship, then I will no longer have my non-poly relationship.

If don't break my non-poly relationship, I risk not having a poly relationship.

Is there any advice on how I can handle this situation? Do I pursue my desire for poly relationship? Do I ignore it and hope I can keep the desire buried without it hurting myself doing so?​

When phrased like that, do you still feel as strongly? Would you still feel as strongly about ending your non-poly partnership to free you up for POTENTIAL future polyshipping? If you choose YOURSELF (versus choosing wife or choosing GF) -- where does that put you at? Because who is to say you will stay with Kim if you leave Sarah for her? Maybe you end up with zero partners. Maybe you end up with two other poly partners entirely that are neither Kim or Sarah.

You have to reconcile your desires and make a call there. Is 1a the only open model your wife will consider? Are you clear about what open model relationship you want?

http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/open.html

Maybe that could be a helpful talking tool with wife? Or anything here?
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

Galagirl
 
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I'm sorry you are hurting. :(

You could take the personalities out of the equation to see if you feel the same when there are no names. Here's how it would read if you remove the names:

At this point I am at a cross roads. I am in a non-poly relationship. The thought of not being in a poly relationship with two partners makes me sick to my stomach. (yes/no?) YES

My desire to be in poly relationship is worth fighting for. (yes/no?) YES

I feel like my only options are to either

1) pursue a poly relationship
2) just suppress the feelings, stay in a non-poly arrangement and hope I can get over the resentment of not being in a poly relationship.​

If I break my non-poly relationship and state my desire to be in a poly relationship, then I will no longer have my non-poly relationship.

If don't break my non-poly relationship, I risk not having a poly relationship.

Is there any advice on how I can handle this situation? Do I stick up for my needs for poly relationship or just cower away and hope I can keep the need buried without it hurting myself doing so?​

When phrased like that, do you still feel as strongly?

Galagirl

Thanks for the response Galagirl. I am currently reading through your blog too.

I answered above. I like how you put this. Take the people and personalities out and see if it still fits. And to answer your final question. Yes I do still feel as strongly about it.

I was reading in your blog about just being able to express that you are poly and talk about those things is really what is important. We have that ability to talk openly about the swinging stuff, but when I went to my wife about the poly, it was totally different. It really caught me off guard how difficult it was for her to even talk about it.
 
Sorry... I was still editing.

We have that ability to talk openly about the swinging stuff, but when I went to my wife about the poly, it was totally different. It really caught me off guard how difficult it was for her to even talk about it.

Well, the next question is -- would you feel fulfilled having poly expression with Sarah even if you do not have a poly partner?

Would that be doable for you both?

Could she Open that far to meet you in middle ground?
Could you Close that far to meet her in middle ground?

Galagirl
 
No, they're not.

Guess I opened myself up for that. I should say that other than this issue, things are good with us in my opinion. However since my initial discussion with her, this has been an underlying issue.

Poly is not about fighting. Who or what exactly are you thinking about fighting?

By "worth fighting for", I mean that I don't want to just tell Kim to pound sand because Sara doesn't want me to have that kind of relationship. Which I suppose answers my own question. Its worth the discussion with my wife.
 
Sorry... I was still editing.



Well, the next question is -- would you feel fulfilled having poly expression with Sarah even if you do not have a poly partner?

Would that be doable for you both?

Could she Open that far to meet you in middle ground?
Could you Close that far to meet her in middle ground?

Galagirl

That would be a compromise for sure. I would say that being able to talk about it and not act on it might still be very hard, but it would be a start.
 
By "worth fighting for", I mean that I don't want to just tell Kim to pound sand because Sara doesn't want me to have that kind of relationship. Which I suppose answers my own question. Its worth the discussion with my wife.
I removed my original reply because I sometimes can be blunt, and I thought galagirls's softer approach may be more helpful to you than my blunt approach. Since you quoted me and answered me, I'll tell you the rest of what I was thinking.

There are people who swing with the intention of getting sex without emotional involvement. Emotions happen when they want to. They happened to you.

I would stop looking at your situation as though your wife is getting in the way of what you want. I would not assume by leaving your wife and going to Kim, under your present circumstances, you will be happier than you are now.

The best thing you can do is to take a step back from the urgency you feel and talk to your wife in depth about her needs and your needs. Having a conversation with her that is deeper and more intimate than the two of you have ever had before will move your relationship with her to a new place. That new place may help both of you understand what's going on a little better. Reacting to your urgent feelings is not going to help you.
 
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Blunt isn't always a bad thing.

Your note about the swinging is dead on. It definitely happened to me.

And for the record, I don't think that the grass is greener on the other side. I feel like for me the grass would be greener with the fence knocked down.

Believe me, we have had some very deep and very open conversations. In our previous conversation about poly we talked about specific feelings she had and I tried very hard to put her mind at rest on that front. Of course that was just the first conversation and maybe she has thought more about it since then. Maybe its time to have another of the deep talks about it and see where things go.

Thanks for the replies. This is very helpful. I have been lurking on this site from time to time for while. Glad I joined and posted my question. Has me searching away and reading some very good information.
 
Ask yourself "Do I want a POLY life or a life with these two specifically?"

If you just want a relationship with these two specific women and cant really see yourself being interested in other people, "suppression" (gods I hate that term) is more viable. Given enough time, feelings can cool down to manageable levels and you may find you didn't actually like Kim as much as you thought you did.

If you are shooting for an actual poly life, suppression is relationship suicide. Mono and poly dont mix and you will end up in a situation where you or your wife will be very unhappy and the other very happy depending on who gets their way. Eventually one will start to resent the other and it will eat your relationship alive from the inside out.

Best idea is to answer that question and go from there.

If the answer is you want THESE two women specifically and you'd be happy with just them, it MIGHT be workable. It sounds like your wife is basically (emotionally) monogamous and to someone who is mono, poly is an entirely different language so she may never understand fully. You can talk to her and determine specifically why, find out if there are any lynch pin fears holding her refusal together and if they can be addressed. But you may have to face the possibility that the concept is just not for her and she wants nothing to do with it.

If you want a poly life in general, your options are much more limited. Again, determine if she's got specific fears that you can allay but you may still have to face the fact that she's emotionally monogamous.
 
You realize you have feelings for Kim on par with those you have for your wife. You talk about it with Kim, but NOT your wife. You are shutting her out and forming a bubble of free discourse with Kim. You are surprised your wife is feeling more need of reassurance?

You say your wife and Kim are also friends. You go to Vegas with Kim. Your wife tries to spend more time with you and you and Kim see it as she ruined something for you two. Did you inform your wife of your plans for that day or is this another thing you did not share with her and can now conveniently hold against your wife for unwittingly ruining?

It might be a good idea to step back and count the blessings shared with your wife in the last 10 years and recognize that if she were not who she is - you wouldn't probably wouldn't even know Kim to have these feelings for in the first place. Your marriage to your wife is the vehicle by which you were able to express yourself sexually with this woman. Maybe go thank your wife and give her a kiss.
 
That would be a compromise for sure. I would say that being able to talk about it and not act on it might still be very hard, but it would be a start.

Then you can ask her if that is a possible "soft limit." A soft limit is one that could change in time.

If she's thinking ""NO!" from a fear place but willing to step just to there there for X amount of time and then reassess at another checkpoint to see how it feels in then, perhaps it's worth it to try.

If she's thinking "NO way EVER!" right now and it is actually a hard limit, better she state that now. No amount of time would change it.

But since you are the one wanting changes, bring her various options when you try to discuss/negotiate that are at least palatable on your end. Give her places to go so there's options besides "pass/fail" there in that negotiation meeting. Does SHE have ideas? Hear them out.

Assess her willingness, but once assessed, respect where her willingness line lies. Then see if that line is something YOU are willing to roll with or not as you compare it to your own willingness assessment.

If neither are willing to find common middle ground, perhaps you can find common ground in both wanting a clean, quick, peaceful split.

Hang in there! I know it's hard to feel.

Galagirl
 
You realize you have feelings for Kim on par with those you have for your wife. You talk about it with Kim, but NOT your wife. You are shutting her out and forming a bubble of free discourse with Kim. You are surprised your wife is feeling more need of reassurance?

I tried to talk to her about those feelings and it didn't go well. I know that this isn't the best situation for me to be in and I don't feel very good about being in this position, but I am. By my own doing. And its time to change that one way or the other. Thus my post asking for advice.


You say your wife and Kim are also friends. You go to Vegas with Kim. Your wife tries to spend more time with you and you and Kim see it as she ruined something for you two. Did you inform your wife of your plans for that day or is this another thing you did not share with her and can now conveniently hold against your wife for unwittingly ruining?

She knew all of my plans for the week. I didn't hide any of that from her. It would take another book of a post to explain our trips to Vegas but generally when we go up for car shows I only see my wife for a few hours over the course of a 4 day weekend because she gambles and I don't. I hang out with my car and truck club friends who are in town for the show. That is our norm for the last decade, so what happened this week was a surprise to me. And will be part of the conversation for sure.

It might be a good idea to step back and count the blessings shared with your wife in the last 10 years and recognize that if she were not who she is - you wouldn't probably wouldn't even know Kim to have these feelings for in the first place. Your marriage to your wife is the vehicle by which you were able to express yourself sexually with this woman. Maybe go thank your wife and give her a kiss.

Your right, if it weren't for her I wouldn't have ever been able to meet kim and have what I have. I thank her all the time for what she does and allows me to do. But that doesn't change how I feel about Kim or the dilemma that I am in.
 
The two primary parts of this situation, if I understand it correctly, are:

1) Your wife does not want you to be with Kim the way you want to be with Kim - period.

2) You have feelings for Kim that are pretty urgent. So urgent, that not "going there" feels like a pressure cooker to you.


These two parts are pulling at each other and causing stress within you and between you and your wife. It's time for you to reevaluate your life, and decide what is important to you. Keep in mind, healthy change is a step by step process. Your urgent feelings want you to fast forward that step by step process. Just because your feelings are urgent, does not mean acting on them as fast as "they" want you to will improve your life.

You have an urgent want, and your wife is saying no. This may be showing you that you and your wife may no longer be compatible. There are times when one person's interest in poly is the catalyst for the relationship to end.

The best thing you can do is acknowledge your urgent feelings, but don't let them make your decisions for you. Reacting to urgent feelings rarely improves a person's life. Take the time to look at which one of the options, that are realistically available to you, you want.
 
There is some very good advice in this thread. I am very glad I posted up. To your point Snowmelt, it is all very fresh right now. I do think that I will take a step back for a little bit and really try and figure out how I want to approach this. Its definitely something that I feel strongly that I need to address. At this point its just about finding the right way to go about it so that I address my wifes needs and make some ground on my needs as well.

Thanks everyone.
 
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