Badly need advice - HELP

polyscared

New member
Hi,

I need help, well, advice. I need a non-poly neutral unbiased opinion of my situation.

Here's why...

I am a 33 year old male. I met my wife when we were 14 and have been together ever since we were 15. We were, and have always been, the only people we've ever been with. We started a business together 10 years ago and have lived together, worked together, ate together, and basically been together 24/7 for the past 12 of the 17 years we've been together. Oddly enough we just got married 5 only years ago. We've never known anything else but each other.

We've always had a great relationship with great communication, but as life presents its drama, and as our roles of husband and wife turn into "business partners" and responsibility sharers in our personal life, we took each other for granted. I personally have been struggling with stress and loss of sexual appetite for the past year and a half. She's "missed me" she said.

Well in the middle of this my best friend moved out of state. Many of my other close friends had kids (we don't have any) or moved on. This only made me even more unhappy. I would be fun to be around in public, but when we got home we didn't have much to give to each other I guess (especially me). We fell into a rut I guess you can say.

The end of last year she met a girl that became her best friend. They moved very quickly. This girl was the needle in a haystack to either wedge between us, or make us stronger (I'll let you decide in the end).

My wife is 31, and her best friend is 26, her friend is high energy, optimistic, down for anything, and has very little drama. She is a lot of the person my wife has missed in me. It does help that she still lives at home, she has no bills (so all of her money is disposable), has next to no responsibilities, and smokes pot the moment anything difficult to deal with presents itself—and I only say that to point out that she avoids having to “deal” with any real emotions at all cost—her smoking pot doesn’t bother me in the least. (Another thing my wife and I never tried until after we met this girl—pot) She's not a deep person at all and she is VERY guarded with sharing her feelings. She has no experience or skill at expressing herself. She really struggles with it. All this said, she's incredibly infectious, you can't help but love her, and she's "intriguing”, and adorable. Very adorable.

When she first entered our life she was very flirty with me. She made me feel incredible. She always made me feel good about me; smiling all the time at me, touches, compliments, open flirtation and energetic hugs with affectionate tenderness sprinkled in. It was felt more towards me than towards my wife initially. At this point however, I was not attracted to her, I did not have feelings for her, I just thought she was wonderful to be around and made me feel great about me...In a time where I have been the lowest I think I've been, she was making me feel great about myself, and I found myself unknowingly just wanting to be around her. The fact of the matter was though that she was my wife's new best friend, so I tried to give them space while they were here at our house.

Once again, this girl came into our life at the end of last year... Flash forward to May of this year and I am flat out in love. I have the world’s biggest crush on my wife's best friend! I cannot stop thinking about her. I go to sleep thinking about her and I wake up thinking about her--it's a beast that consumes me. For the next month and a half I am talking to MY best friend who moved away trying to cope with these feelings. I am not myself, I am quiet, I am jealous of her time with my wife that I don't get--I am obsessed with this girl. As bad as it can possibly get, for the first time ever in my life, that's where I am at.

In the middle of my insane obsession over this girl, she is pulling more and more away from me. Not talking to me as much and more importantly, she's mostly stopped any flirting or attention of the kind towards me. This, of course, only makes me obsess more. It's like a drug that has been taken away. I spend 2 hours every day talking to my best friend (god bless his patience) for weeks trying to get over this girl. I can't be around her, I can't see her with other people (I get jealous), it's very bad.

It's now spilling into my relationship with my wife, I can't stop but be "down" or worse, angry, every time we see her or sometimes just randomly when I'm thinking about her. I am completely in love with this girl. And like I said, this mad crush started at the very beginning of May.

Flash forward to mid-June...

By now other people have seen how close my wife and her new best friend have gotten. My best friend has asked me if there's maybe something "more than friends" about their relationship. My brother and his wife, who have both seen the two of them together, said that they seem like there is more going on than "just friends". My brother is so convinced in fact that he insists that I make sure. I am completely oblivious; I am still consumed by my own feelings for my wife's best friend that I must have been blind.

The affair revealed...

In mid-June I see intense romantic text conversations between them on my wife's phone. They are talking about sexual experiences they've had, they are telling each other how much they love each other. It's a full on romantic relationship. My estimation based on texts is that it has been going on since February or possibly earlier, but at least for 5 months now (they've only known each other for 8 at this point). I am devastated. I am devastated in both ways that I personally longed for that type of relationship myself with her, and that my wife had an affair. Worse yet, my wife deletes the texts shortly after I read them in hopes that I never got the chance to read them before she could destroy the evidence.

(continued in next post…)
 
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Story continued...

The confrontation...

I confronted my wife almost immediately. We were alone, in our house, and I just broke down in tears. Everything that I have been battling, all the emotions along with this devastating discovery absolutely destroyed me. She started crying as well. She said that she "missed me" and that she wasn't looking to find anything, it just happened. That her new best friend just provided her with the connection she had been missing from me. She said it started very slow and just grew into something more. She said she wasn’t looking for it, it just happened. What bothered me though was that a month earlier I asked her if we were "ok" and that I felt disconnected. She assured me that we were fine. She later says that I had previously told her that I couldn’t handle any more stress in my life, and that she couldn't bare putting more stress on me after hearing that, and that's why she said that we were good.

At first I wanted a divorce. She cheated on me, and there is no excuse for that. I am a good looking guy, I have been flat out propositioned a lot throughout our marriage, I have never cheated on her. She’s beautiful, and she can have almost anyone she wants as well. Which always made me feel good about us sacrificing “playing the field” because we were in it together I guess? It was fair, and even, and worth the sacrifice by far. Like I said earlier though, we have great communication, and part of that is being able to always put ourselves objectively in the other person's position despite our own perspective and motivations. And we absolutely don’t play games or try to manipulate each other. We’re very fair. With that said, I admitted that I have neglected her needs. Perhaps it would have happened anyway no matter how perfect our life’s circumstances had been because of her curiosity of being with a girl…But I admitted that I am partially to blame, regardless.

After two days of thought I decided what I am going to do with the situation. My wife tells her best friend in the meantime that they need time apart and she needs to work on her marriage. That she has been neglecting me. As much as I appreciate her loyalty, I love my wife, and I feel horrible that she has to lose her best friend through this. This person who she constantly told me has been the greatest friend she's ever had. I feel guilty, can you believe that? "I" feel guilty. I want her to be able to keep her best friend, but continue to work on us and stop their romantic relationship. She agrees, and is very grateful for my selflessness. (maybe stupidity – because at the time, I really just wanted her out of our life.) The challenge though is that her best friend doesn’t know that I have “caught” them. If she knew that I knew what they have been doing, she would be completely weird or (more likely) run for the hills and never talk to us again out of guilt and embarrassment. (Again, remember, we’re not dealing with someone that can deal with drama and more importantly communicate…she’s rather just run.)

During the discussion of how we're going to move on I naturally ask if she's "into girls" and that I maybe just never knew. She says that she isn't, and that it was just a connection thing between the two of them. She goes on to say though that she's been "curious" about a sexual experience with another girl but never felt comfortable suggesting a threesome.

The threesome suggested...

Threesome?! My ears perk up. My ears perk up not because of the typical guy fantasy though...My ears perk up because I am being offered an opportunity to be with the woman that I have been obsessed about for months. I also am wondering if this will sort of "even the score" somehow and help us move on in a weird way. I openly explain both of these feelings with my wife. We’re pretty open about all of our feelings. At this point btw I have already told my wife during these past few days that part of how I understood how this happened was because that I also fell hard for her best friend. And that I have been dealing with it with great difficulty for the past month and a half. I'm interested in the threesome, and we decide to let me think about it. We decided however that after all this we need a weekend away. We need a time for us. We decide to go downtown, get a hotel room, and enjoy the city and reconnect. Throughout our time away however this discussion gets brought up occasionally about the threesome and my wife is getting noticeably turned on by the idea. This, as a result, is turning me on. We have great sex all weekend and just enjoy our time away. In the end, after a lot of careful thought, we decide to try it.

I’m nervous. I just spent the last couple of months trying to NOT think of this girl like that. In any case, we’re going to try it, but we still need to ask my wife's best friend if she is interested though. My wife proposes the threesome to her and after two weeks of thought, she decides that she'll do it as well, but she says it's really for my wife--to let her fulfill her fantasy.

Our threesome...

We didn't decide when and where and how. We just knew we were all "in" for if it ever presented itself. Well, it happens. We get back to our house, we do a shot, and my wife's best friend spills on herself and says "fuck it", and takes her shirt off. My wife and I laugh and she says "why am I the only one with my shirt off??", my wife and I both take our shirts off as well. Well, it doesn't take long before we're all over each other. We move to the floor in the other room and we're all naked soon enough. The only challenge is that I am having an incredibly difficult time getting hard. The whole experience seems surreal and all these thoughts of the two of them together are flooding my head. To make matters worse, I exercised till I was ready to collapse earlier that day, we absolutely pigged out at dinner an hour before, and we have been doing shots like crazy all night. I'm nervous, and I can't perform. It's mortifying for me.

Regardless, the girls are well taken care of and the whole thing goes on for over two hours even with me being kind of in and out of being hard.

Flash forward months later to now our ninth time...

I STILL cannot perform. I cannot maintain an erection with this girl. It just fades as we get more into it. I have NEVER had this problem before, not in the least. I’m mentally there, but sub-consciously something is still not right. I have all these mixed feelings and it doesn't help that her attention is mostly on my wife. Actually, I take that back, I was able to perform once like normal out of the NINE times (I think it was like the seventh time we did it) and I was actually so annoyed at first at the fact that I felt no connection from this girl still that I was going to walk away. In almost that moment, she showed me attention and started touching and kissing me. For whatever reason, she hardly touches me. It’s weird, she roughly yanks on my dick like she’s trying to start a fire in my pants, but without lubrication or when it’s wet (maybe her lack of experience?) and it’s sometimes painful instead of pleasurable, but she hardly gives me any other physical attention unless I initiate it. I actually have had to grab her hands and put them on my several times. Teaching her would only make her feel uncomfortable though. She’d get immediately get defensive. THIS time however, it was only then, when she gave me physical attention and showed desire for ME and not just my wife, that I was able to STAY into it. (I have always been able to get hard in our past threesomes, initially, but the moment I go to insert I would just "lose it" often in previous attempts) Not this time. This time I am able to stay into it. Somehow, I feel wanted and I don’t feel pressured. We go for three hours and about half that time I am taking turns doing both of them. They love it, I love it, and I am burning more calories than any work out I have ever done! LOL! I came three times, pretty much without stopping. It was fantastic, and how it should have been since the beginning.

(continued in next post...)
 
Story concluded...

Then comes the 8th and 9th time. Anxiety crept in again. I'm just not feeling "desired" by this girl. Sure she tells me I'm hot in a flirty way, tells me to show my abs, but it's very non-committed. Almost like stuff that she could say or do to any guy (and does). She doesn't "show" me that I mean more or that she “wants" me ever. I can’t help but feel that I’m getting almost pathetic sympathy sex permission from her. It’s how I’ve felt from the start. She never initiates anything with me, I always do, even though she probably would deny that, it’s absolutely true. There’s been two times I think that she ever initiated anything. I think one of those times was her just saying that if we were alone she’d be all over me. Aside from that, we see each other 3-4 times a week, and she hardly makes me feel desired. My wife, by the way, has been encouraging her to feel comfortable with me. It actually turns her on to see us together.

There is no three-way relationship though. Not that I expected it to move this fast at all, but I expected a little progress, or movement. We have a weak friendship (me and her, why would she need more? She has plenty of friends and all her needs fulfilled by my wife, I don’t blame her) and my wife and her still remain BEST friends. They still have their flirting text conversations, and they still do everything together. I do also go out with them and awful lot, and when we do, we all have a blast. But the "relationship" is completely between them. And I am just finding that I want more from her. I want more because I’m needing this to be a three-way relationship or nothing. I can’t keep knowing my wife is getting her romantic needs met by someone else. She’s getting emotional, more than “friends”, connection from someone outside of our marriage. It’s starting to not sit well with me. IF we were all sharing in it, even if my wife maintained a best friendship and “stronger” connection, I’d be ok with that. I’d be ok with that as long as I was involved in the relationship and connection with some decent amount. I don’t want my wife to have an intimate relationship with me, and an intimate relationship with someone simultaneously outside of our marriage. If it’s within our marriage, and we’re all in this, then that I can be ok with, even if they have a stronger connection. If they want to do 1on1 stuff in an arrangement like that, fine, if I’m doing 1on1 stuff with her in an arrangement like that, fine, we’re all open and sharing and enjoying at that point. This current situation is different though. My wife says to just be patient, that I’m trying to rush it, but it’s been a couple months since we started this and I feel like there should be more progression between us. My wife says that it’s not helping that me and her best friend progress when I don’t spend any 1-on-1 time together. We both know that it would help, but we both know that her friend would feel weird about it. She gets scared when things get serious. She doesn’t like drama or conflict or anything complicated, she runs. At this pace it will either take a year, or never happen.

What we’re trying to decide on…

I told my wife, “if you want to have a normal friendship with this girl then I won’t hold you back, but unless we can make your relationship a shared relationship, where we all express and share intimate feelings for each other, then I think this part of your friendship needs to end”. My wife is afraid that if they move to a “normal” relationship her best friend will get spooked, feel that my wife doesn’t care as much about her, she’ll feel hurt, and she’ll just run to her other friends. My wife said she’ll basically faze her out of her life, quickly. More importantly, my wife loves this girl—hell, I love this girl too—she doesn’t want to cut out the special bond they have. She actually is excited about possibly getting to the point where we’re all very comfortable 1 on 1 or in a threesome. To the point where it’s “casual”. She said that she loves us both so much and she wants us to both be in her life. She said it would be so great to have the two people she loves so much love each other and both love her (maybe a little more lol). I however, have been an emotional rollercoaster dealing with this. I get so frustrated, I feel that this girl likes hanging out with me with my wife, but wants nothing more physically or in the form of a connection with me. More specifically, I feel like she pacifies me with as little emotional and physical connection as she can get away with. It feels very much like she can walk away from me, never see me again for the rest of her life, and not really be that bothered by it. I want very badly to know that nothing “bad” is going to come of my wife’s connection with this girl. I want to just let them enjoy each other and stay out where I’m not wanted. It’s very difficult though. I am just not comfortable seeing my wife get emotionally fulfilled on that level from anyone else but me.

My wife didn’t even notice how abnormal their relationship was until I pointed it out—until I compared it to other girls and told her to pretend it was someone else’s text conversations. And until I told her if it’s normal, let’s let everyone we know read them. She quickly “got it”. She tried to go the route initially of “girls are just more affectionate”, but that quickly faded when I read back some of their texts. Even recently, they still have very much “relationship” level exchanges in their text conversation. I know her best friend would NEVER realize that unless it was explained. In fact, she’s clueless about all of this. Why? Because she gets aggressive when you try to communicate anything deeper that involves her. She gets defensive, and unfortunately would just run instead of trying to figure it out. As sad as it is, we’re trying to protect her by keeping her in the dark. We know that she’s also fallen for my wife, they have an amazing bond, and we know she’d sabotage her own relationship with us instead of “talking” about it.

At this point, we’re trying to figure out where to go with this. My wife and I would love to have a very casual physical shared relationship with this girl, my wife wants to continue her connection with her, I am looking to also develop at least a semi-connection with her as well. What does SHE want? Wish I could tell you…by now you know she would completely distance herself if this highly awkward conversation presented itself.

So what do we do?...

We both very much love this girl. She also probably loves us too (we say it to each other). It’s healthy though, we’re not asking her to marry us lol. My wife just unfortunately found herself in this relationship with this girl that’s more than friends and we’re trying to make the best decision possible on where to go from here. It’s been the source of a lot of tension between us. Her best friend has no idea the tension it has caused, if she did, she’s back away. There’s been tension because I’ve been forced in a position where I need to “accept” that my wife has a relationship outside of our marriage. Even if it’s a relationship/friendship combo, the relationship part has made me uncomfortable. I am tired of the constant tension even though I would absolutely be devastated (along with my wife) to see this girl leave our lives. We thought that the three of us together would kind of “open” their relationship up between all three of us a little, but it hasn’t, it’s the same it has always been.

Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you! :)
 
For what it's worth, you sound extremely conflicted yourself. I'm not saying this to be judgmental, in fact I sympathize with the situation in which you find yourself, but I think that you really should pursue counseling or therapy as an individual, and couples therapy (with your wife). It is rare to be with someone that you have been with since the age of 15, so many experiences that other adults have had by this point in their lives are brand new to you & your wife.

But you sound very conflicted about this new girl in your lives. Many people say it, and I believe it - poly is not the cure for a bad relationship. And by your own admission, things were pretty bad between you & your wife when this girl came into your lives.

I think that you should both take a time-out from seeing this girl to work on your marriage. Be honest with her about why, so she doesn't blame herself, and so she knows that you both think it would be great if you could pick up where you left off at a later date, but for now, you need to work on your marriage. (And personally, I think you need to work on the conflicts within yourself as an individual as well.)

Good luck to you - this is a very heartfelt story and I truly hope it comes out best for all concerned.
 
Yikes. What a mess! :confused: I'll try but dang!

10 years ago and have lived together, worked together, ate together, and basically been together 24/7 for the past 12 of the 17 years we've been together.

Together way too much. There is nothing to share at the end of the day with each other if you've been together all day as it is. Can one of you get a new job elsewhere and hire for the position they vacate?

She always made me feel good about me; smiling all the time at me, touches, compliments, open flirtation and energetic hugs with affectionate tenderness sprinkled in. It was felt more towards me than towards my wife initially. At this point however, I was not attracted to her, I did not have feelings for her, I just thought she was wonderful to be around and made me feel great about me...In a time where I have been the lowest I think I've been, she was making me feel great about myself, and I found myself unknowingly just wanting to be around her.
  • Not getting this touching from wife? Why not tell wife you need this more?
  • You sound depressed. Why not get check up for depression?

In the middle of my insane obsession over this girl, she is pulling more and more away from me. Not talking to me as much and more importantly, she's mostly stopped any flirting or attention of the kind towards me. This, of course, only makes me obsess more. It's like a drug that has been taken away.


It IS a drug. It's the brain hormone cascade of crushing. Fun to feel, but it means nothing serious.

I am devastated. I am devastated in both ways that I personally longed for that type of relationship myself with her, and that my wife had an affair. Worse yet, my wife deletes the texts shortly after I read them in hopes that I never got the chance to read them before she could destroy the evidence.

I'm sorry to hear of the cheating. :(

She said she wasn’t looking for it, it just happened. What bothered me though was that a month earlier I asked her if we were "ok" and that I felt disconnected. She assured me that we were fine. She later says that I had previously told her that I couldn’t handle any more stress in my life, and that she couldn't bare putting more stress on me after hearing that, and that's why she said that we were good.

You guys have poor communication about your feelings. You are both avoidy. It doesn't make the cheating affair right though.

Threesome?! My ears perk up. My ears perk up not because of the typical guy fantasy though...My ears perk up because I am being offered an opportunity to be with the woman that I have been obsessed about for months. I also am wondering if this will sort of "even the score" somehow and help us move on in a weird way. I openly explain both of these feelings with my wife. We’re pretty open about all of our feelings.

No you aren't open about all your feelings. You had to snoop in her cel phone because you did not want to outright ASK. She was deleting texts because she didn't want to outright SAY.

Now you are looking stick your dick into the crush woman. That's treating her like a thing -- you don't mention anything about spending time with her to get to know her. Just want to jump her bones.

Also you want to "even the score" - that's not healthy. It is a revenge affair to get even with wife.

So I suspect whatever "openly sharing of your feelings" happened at this point was to further move it to where you could have the sex act. Not really talking about whether this was wanted by ALL parties in a healthy way and whether this would be the appropriate expression of your feelings for each other at this time.

Basically wife is also guilty of treating GF like a thing -- "here, have some nookie cookie, husband. To make nice for my cheating on you."

My wife proposes the threesome to her and after two weeks of thought, she decides that she'll do it as well, but she says it's really for my wife--to let her fulfill her fantasy.

Which to me sounds like

  • "I am not really into it or him but will compromise myself for you, gf."
    • I am emotionally avoidy and giving in is easier than me stating NO! and being firm in my emotion needs.
    • "I am really giving him a pity fuck to assuage my own guilt in participating in affair. This allows me to be emotionally avoidy but still make nice with myself."
    • "I rather give up nookie than apologize for affair like a grown up. Because that allows me to be emotionally avoidy and I don't have to own my bad and make nice properly with him."
  • "I will couch it in terms of my doing it to let GF fulfill her fantasy because that makes it more palatable to me. Then it is my generosity to GF and not my avoidy keeping me from telling my GF (the wife) to fuck off for putting me in this awkward position in an already complex thing!"

THAT's not healthy either. Was wife pressuring GF? Were you? This person you already describe as weak in character and decision making and if you both went there KNOWING that? You were predatory. It is not flattering.

The whole experience seems surreal and all these thoughts of the two of them together are flooding my head. To make matters worse, I exercised till I was ready to collapse earlier that day, we absolutely pigged out at dinner an hour before, and we have been doing shots like crazy all night. I'm nervous, and I can't perform. It's mortifying for me.

Common enough problem in swinging -- guy can't keep an erection.

And add how you are coming into this dude -- not healthy in the heart bucket. (emotional health)

I’m mentally there, but sub-consciously something is still not right. I have all these mixed feelings and it doesn't help that her attention is mostly on my wife. Actually, I take that back, I was able to perform once like normal out of the NINE times (I think it was like the seventh time we did it) and I was actually so annoyed at first at the fact that I felt no connection from this girl still that I was going to walk away.

See? Even you know there's no heart feelings there. But you went there anyway. Without consent -- you got a half assed consent. But it was not "YAY! I WANT TO BE WITH YOU!" consent. And you knew it.

Gross.

I can’t help but feel that I’m getting almost pathetic sympathy sex permission from her.

Told you that way back at the beginning -- not into you, but will do you for sake of the wife.
And I am just finding that I want more from her. I want more because I’m needing this to be a three-way relationship or nothing.

Yup. This is an empty relationship. Stop having sex there. Accept she's not that into you as a BF.
I can’t keep knowing my wife is getting her romantic needs met by someone else. She’s getting emotional, more than “friends”, connection from someone outside of our marriage. It’s starting to not sit well with me.

It has BEEN not sitting well with you. I'm not hearing you guys solved the cheating betrayal feelings. I'm not hearing that you solved the situation that caused wife to be ripe for a cheating affair -- some of her needs were going unmet.

So instead of getting around to digging down to find out what that all is you are doing what? Getting jealous she gets fed elsewhere?

It doesn't make the cheating ok, but WHEN will you own your part of the elephant there? You neglected wife needs at some point along the line. When are you going to spend time repairing that?

Otherwise you cannot be ok sharing wife because seeing her needs met elsewhere is a big neon sign of "I suck! I don't meet her needs!"

To stop feeling like you suck because you don't meet her needs that she needs met FROM YOU, you need to start meeting them.

IF we were all sharing in it, even if my wife maintained a best friendship and “stronger” connection, I’d be ok with that. I’d be ok with that as long as I was involved in the relationship and connection with some decent amount.

That is speaking to fear of losing your wife to the GF.

And THAT speaks to fear because you haven't been doing your job of meeting her needs. Not ALL her needs. But the needs from YOU that she needs. No one person is Superman.

I don’t want my wife to have an intimate relationship with me, and an intimate relationship with someone simultaneously outside of our marriage.

Is that a hard limit? A deal breaker? Then you need to tell this to wife. And you need to BEHAVE like this is a hard limit. You do not behave that way at all.

If it’s within our marriage, and we’re all in this, then that I can be ok with, even if they have a stronger connection. If they want to do 1on1 stuff in an arrangement like that, fine, if I’m doing 1on1 stuff with her in an arrangement like that, fine, we’re all open and sharing and enjoying at that point.

That's why I don't think the above is a hard limit.

You need reassuring. Articulate this please -- because I'm sure that it goes both ways. Wife had needs going unmet. SO DID YOU.

Seeing too much of wife in the work place, not having anything to share with each other when you get home for dinner because you were both THERE. Scroll back up to the top and see how you were sad and depressed and your friends move away and all that -- ONE PERSON cannot be superman and meet all needs. You guys are starved for a social life. Get one!

Are you open to an "N" configuration? Where you wife has her Spice and you have a DIFFERENT Spice? What are you doing to spent time with you own wife? You weekend away with the wife sounded nice. Any chance of dating / courting your wife more?

(cont)
 
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My wife says that it’s not helping that me and her best friend progress when I don’t spend any 1-on-1 time together. We both know that it would help, but we both know that her friend would feel weird about it. She gets scared when things get serious. She doesn’t like drama or conflict or anything complicated, she runs. At this pace it will either take a year, or never happen.

And wife is right. 1 on 1 time is needed to develop a deeper relationship with her. Your NRE hormones are wearing off. You are finding there is nothing there for larger attachment.

But I suspect GF doesn't want to deepen anything with you because she's just not that into you. And you going there to press a suit on her when she does not want you as a lover, much less a suitor? Would mean conflict (and she's a conflict avoider) because she'd have to tell you that she's just not that into you OUT LOUD.

Horror! Nevermind that saying so from the get go would have spared all this mess if she had puts the brakes on.

But it isn't her responsibility because you guys were fresh in even proposing a threesome in the way you did -- treating her like a THING. Because you guys were being avoidy in your emotional management elsewhere.

QUOTE]I told my wife, “if you want to have a normal friendship with this girl then I won’t hold you back, but unless we can make your (sex/romance) relationship a shared relationship, where we all express and share intimate feelings for each other, then I think this part of your friendship needs to end”. [/QUOTE]

Here we go. Back to treating the GF like a THING. Share your toy with me or you cannot play with it! Never mind that the "toy" is an actual person with feelings of their own. Why are you pressuring your wife to deliver something that is NOT in her control to give? Her GF having sex/romance desires for you?

Why do you keep treating the GF like an object rather than a real person? She is not the sex/romance dispenser box for anyone who sticks a quarter in.

I get so frustrated, I feel that this girl likes hanging out with me with my wife, but wants nothing more physically or in the form of a connection with me. More specifically, I feel like she pacifies me with as little emotional and physical connection as she can get away with.

Yup. And you see it clearly but don't want to accept it. Wassup with that? How would YOU feel about someone who keeps treating you like a thing? A dick cushion?

Again -- can you be open to an "N" configuration? You have your own Spice rather than trying to share a Spice that just isn't into you? She can't help that she doesn't click with you more than just a nice flirty Metamour like she was way at the start. Wouldn't you rather be flirty friends with her again and not have this UGH between you? If so? stop treating the GF like a thing. Start treating her with courtesy and like a person with feelings of her own.

You wife could realize that she's also treating her a bit like a thing and not a person. Make amends with YOU for the cheating without using the GF as the make nice nookie cookie.

GF could get more assertive about saying NO.

All three of you could learn to hold your own baggage more appropriately. This is a mess of avoidy dance all over the place. :(

I want to just let them enjoy each other and stay out where I’m not wanted.

So do it. Let them enjoy each other. Step out of the weird.
It’s very difficult though. I am just not comfortable seeing my wife get emotionally fulfilled on that level from anyone else but me.

And here we come back full circle. You have a hard time with the mini relationship tier of the larger polyship that is the

you to (wife + gf)

layer of this polyship. On this tier? Seeing wife getting fulfillment from GF emotionally because on the tier of

(you to wife)

you haven't been doing a whole lot in the emotional fullfillment area? Back up at the top? You guys think you are clear communicators about your feelings but you aren't. You also spend TOO MUCH time together via work and not much time together dating each other. Yes, you can date your own wife.

On the layer of

(You to GF)

you have been treating her bad. Like a dick cushion.

So before you can feel ok in the tier of

you to (wife + gf)

there are repairs to be made in the other layers. Learn your polymath tiers. Each mini rship inside the larger configuration needs TLC for the polyship to fly well. Or the whole house of cards folds.

Because she gets aggressive when you try to communicate anything deeper that involves her. She gets defensive, and unfortunately would just run instead of trying to figure it out. As sad as it is, we’re trying to protect her by keeping her in the dark. We know that she’s also fallen for my wife, they have an amazing bond, and we know she’d sabotage her own relationship with us instead of “talking” about it.

Conflict avoiding again. You are not protecting anything but your own knowledge of your own selves and your actions lately. Why? Because it is not flattering to you to acknowledge "out loud" that on some level? You are wife both know that this GF already IS sabotaging her own relationships to be with you guys like this. But you are/were ok with keeping her in that position.

Wife wanted to keep her affair person and you.
You wanted lust and revenge affair.

So you both used her up like a thing. (the GF) Did not consider/care for her as a person even though from the start you know this about her -- she's an emotionally avoidy, childish, immature, lightweight kind of person. Easy prey.

  • her best friend is 26, her friend is high energy, optimistic, down for anything, and has very little drama.
  • she still lives at home, she has no bills (so all of her money is disposable), has next to no responsibilities
  • She smokes pot the moment anything difficult to deal with presents itself
  • she avoids having to “deal” with any real emotions at all cost
  • She's not a deep person at all and she is VERY guarded with sharing her feelings.
  • She has no experience or skill at expressing herself. She really struggles with it.

Maybe the wife was attracted to her being childish and lightweight because she was being avoidy about dealing with the heavy that is your marriage problems at the start. Your withdrawing and her boredom.

Well -- You at least are now struggling with it because somewhere in you you know it isn't cool. If wife struggling with ethics too?

My wife and I would love to have a very casual physical shared relationship with this girl, my wife wants to continue her connection with her, I am looking to also develop at least a semi-connection with her as well. What does SHE want? Wish I could tell you…by now you know she would completely distance herself if this highly awkward conversation presented itself.

Ask her. You can't know without doing that. Let her own her own baggage of feelings like any grown up has too. Hold her accountable even if she is avoidy.

You are doing nothing wrong in asking for clear communication in where you stand. At this point it is almost like HALLELUJAH! At last! Sanity!

But this time LISTEN.

The clues were there from the beginning that she's not into you and you ALL have been avoidy about that. Wanting to force fit this into another shape than what it is. A "V" with the wife as a hinge.

The V arm metamour people -- you and the GF? Be pals. Maybe in time be ok with a casual thing so the wife can have her bday threesome once in a while but where it is FUN for all and not this... gross thing you have now.

(cont)
 
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My wife just unfortunately found herself in this relationship with this girl that’s more than friends and we’re trying to make the best decision possible on where to go from here.

IMMEDIATE CONVO

1) Have a talk in trio. Confirm she is NOT that into you. Just state it outright. "Please confirm that you are not that into me as a lover and would prefer to be just friends. I need to hear it so I can move on to other things and get back in right relationship with you. This polyship seems to naturally want to be a "V" shape. Where wife is the shared person and you and I are better off just being friends and skip the lover stuff. Is that how you feel about it? "

2)Stop the sympathy fuck threesomes. It does not flatter any of you and clouds emotional waters.

3) Apologize to the GF for you guys rolling right over her and not hearing her well when she said she'd do it for the wife's sake. That you prefer she get stronger about her limit and not do ANYTHING she doesn't want to do with a "Yay!"

4) Tell her thank you. And stop there. That's enough for one session.


AFFAIR ISSUE: APOLOGY TIME


This is some other talk at some OTHER time.

1) Ask yourself if you are ok with your wife being the hinge in a "V" with her cheating affair partner. In this WHOLE thing I hear NOTHING about how you have repaired that with the wife. It got swept under the rug in your rush to "make it ok" by sharing the GF like she was some kind of thing and not a person in her own right. You were after lust and a revenge affair. Own it.

2) Ask for individual apology from the GF for the cheating affair. It takes two to tango.

3) Ask for individual apology from the wife for the cheating affair. It takes two to tango.

4) Ask for individual apology from the wife + gf duo for the cheating affair.

5) Apologize to your wife for not spending time with her emotionally and neglecting her needs. The WHY from her missing you. Do something to repair that. I hear nothing about that being repaired.

6) Apologize to wife for wanting lust/revenge affair threesome thing to get even and failing to think of what is best for the overall marriage and just thinking about your own selfish.

7) Apologize to wife for going along with this mess and shooshing dealing with the affair under the rug. Rahter than sideline into feeding your own selfish, you could have held her accountable for her actions and sought appropriate solution/counseling. She could apologize to you here too.

8) Apologize to GF for putting her in weird situation when really the problem is on the wife + husband tier -- the habitualy shooshing of emotional discussion. She played a role in the cheating affair but this bad habit of emotional avoidy the marriage does has been there all along.

6) Apologize to the GF for moving the threesome forward when she said she'd only do it for the wife. That was taking advantage.

7) Ask the GF to apologize to you for not giving clear communication and stating a firm NO. Also for being avoidy in conflict resoultion.


8) Stop there. Apology time is emotionally draining. But it needs to be done. Make appt for part 2.

POST AFFAIR: HOW TO BE TOGETHER NOW

1) Decide how this "V" will continue and how the metamours will be expected to behave toward each other if this polyship is going to continue in a healthier way. Seek a counselor for help if needed. (I think you do need. You and wife are in this habit of avoidy emotional convo because you are stuck emotionally like teens when you first got together. Look at your GF person -- similar type! You found a way to "solve" it back then as teens that no longer suits NOW as adults but have no practical experience for how to deal. Consider learning with a counselor. All three of you! Esp if this V will continue. All need to be better communicators.)

You guys need your framework for rights and responsibilities in order to hold yourselves and each other accountable. I am not hearing you have any kind of agreements like that and from the top you and your wife do not have good emotional communication.

Her needs were going unmet by you. She did not articulate that to you. She went off to have an affair.

You had lonely/depressed feelings and social needs going unmet. You did not articulate that to her either.

You might not get the hoped for "triad" thing, but you CAN get rid of the tension by having a series of talks, making the apologies that need to be made, and returning to being in right relationship on ALL your polymath tiers. (see next posts)

GL to all of you. I hope you get to a better place in your polyship.

Namaste.
GG
 
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For the OP -- your tiers in this "V" polyship.

You must learn and understand the tiers in your polymath.

Each mini relationship inside the larger polyship needs TLC for the polyship to fly right. Or else it all folds like a house of cards. If one tier is NOT in right relationship to each other, then the polyship as a whole is not in full right relationship. You WILL feel the trickle effect.

In this situation you have SEVERAL layers not in right relationship. Straighten yourselves out on each tier and make the apologies and repairs each tier needs to have.

CAST OF PLAYER

you (the husband)
wife
wife's GF


SINGLES

you to you (your relationship to yourself as part of a V. This is different than you to yourself as just a husband, or as a footloose single. Now you have others to think of because you actions affect them.

wife to wife

GF to GF

DOUBLES

you --> wife (can you go to her with your stuff well? The arrow points to her.)
you --> GF


Wife --> you (does she come to you with her stuff well?
wife --> gf

gf --> you (as her metamour and maybe also a friend NOT lover)
gf --> gf

TRIPLES

you <--> (wife + gf as a couple) [saving space, relationship info arrow flows both ways. You relating to them as a couple and giving them couple space and consideration of their feelings as a couple and couple needs. The couple relating to you and giving you space and consideration of your feelings and needs.]

wife <--> (you + gf as metamours)

gf < --> (you + wife as marrieds)

you + wife + gf (functioning well as a V shaped polyship with wife as the hinge. Communicating as a trio, calendar, family meetings to address what is going well and what is not, hanging out together, etc.)

GHOST LAYER

How you want to be when this ends. All relationship come to an end. Talk about how you want to be when it ends. Part as friends? What?
 
Hmm..so I didn't read the last half of your post.

1. Nobody I've known or seen has ever said "I just had to cheat on my partner because new person was SO MUCH HOTTER than my current partner. That's an attitude you really need to throw out if you want to have successful poly relationships, people cheat for lots of reasons, but unless its an episode of LAW & ORDER it's probably not because somebody was sexier than you. Lets say this girl was not attractive to you - does that make the situation untenable? Lets say nobody mentioned a placating threesome?

2. Maybe it got said in the second half. Poly = ethical. Wife's friend needs to know that it is honest and open from now on, and that you know what is going on.

3. Really? Best Friend can't handle confrontation or bad feelings cause she'll need to get stoned to deal with actual life. Well then - be upfront and honest and let her go get stoned to hide from her feelings...maybe you'll be surprised and find out she gets stoned cause she likes being high, and she is perfectly capable of being in a healthy relationship and communicating her wants and needs if everybody isn't lying or hedging.


I've imagined I've read the rest of your post - my response to the hypothetical reading is that no matter how much you're OK with your wife lying and cheating on you because you want to screw the hell out of her bf (or are really truly romantically in love with her) none of that matters if you can't sort out #1-3. You and your wife have a lot of shit to work out on your own front as it is. Agreeing to hot threesomes with this woman and your wife is totally different than being poly, especially lets say her bf rejects you and only wants to keep dating your wife while you just have unrequited love for her - that is something you should be prepared for if you want to go forward with this.
 
So... this is my husband. he sent me this link after he posted and I... don't know if I should be responding here, but my first reaction was to want to defend him, and give more to the story, and I dont even know what i'm doing honestly, but I've already buried us pretty deep in all of this and its my fault, so I should be the one getting criticized.

We are fully aware that we need to work on us. I know it doesnt seem like it, but we do have good communication. Our lifestyle is a little over-bearing. We don't just work in the same office, we own a business together and run it from our home... so we not only share all of our time together, but all of our problems as well. Its exhausting and stressful constantly and its very hard at the end of the day to want to bring up issues with us. It just ends up feeling like... we've had enough.

I messed up. Hugely. and I love my husband with everything I am. More than anything. More than anyone. He did nothing to deserve the position I put him in, and I hurt the last person I would ever want to hurt. I am in no way trying to excuse what I did or expect him to. I tend to blow over things a little too quickly and want to move on. Easy to do when you are the one who f’ed up, I know.

He is not a predator. And my friend is not being forced against her will. She admitted to me that while she wasnt sure about the whole thing the first time and she did it for me... that she thoroughly has enjoyed every bit of it since. My friend and husband also get along great when we are together. We all have a blast and laugh constantly. So its not like she is pushing him away and doesn’t want to be around him. Seeing them together makes me happy and I have no jealously whatsoever with them together. It kind of just… makes my heart smile. I realize that I cannot force this to happen and how much stress and pain it is putting on my husband… and on our relationship.

The issue is that her relationship with me is much stronger than it is with him, and although I constantly see potential of them having a stronger bond… I know they need more time together 1 on 1, and I have only mentioned the idea of it in passing to her here and there. This whole poly thing in general is a new and intriguing idea to me in the first place. But before I freak her out… I was trying to figure out if its something that my husband is even open or ready for. And especially after reading all of this and seeing the way the responses have affected him, I’m pretty sure he is not. Especially since I don’t see him having the patience to wait for her to come around without feeling rejected. I don’t want him to ever feel rejected.

My only issue right now is feeling like in order to fix my husband and I… I need to completely cut her from my life, and the idea of that hurts. Not on the ‘romantic’ end as much as the friendship side. I love her in my life and do not want to be faced with ever feeling like I resent my husband for having to choose. Even though I know that he would always win in that choice. I see him hurt when she is around and giving me affection. I’m constantly feeling like I’m in the middle.

I don’t see him ever being able to handle the “V” thing, and I wouldn’t want to ever get more than he was. I’m struggling to see how that even works for people without the ends of the V feeling a little empty or less special.

I think its great that people here take the time to read others stories and try to break them down and help. Its hard to give good advice without all the details, but I appreciate the effort and insight. And for whatever its worth, I just want those who have read this to know that my husband is absolutely the most amazing person I know, has been dealing with the awful position I put him through better than anyone I can imagine, and that I love him with all of my heart.
 
The only advice I have is that you two might want to start a blog here and talk to each other in it. That way, you can read each other's posts and other people can give you their input.

The reason I say that is because I'm getting the sense that both of you communicate more effectively in writing and when you know other people are watching. It looks like you both understand a lot about what's going on and may just need a reality check occasionally. This is quite common on this forum and elsewhere - partners finding it easy to say to strangers things they can't seem to do privately with each other.

That is the impression I have gathered after reading both of your posts. If you don't like what I have to say or think it doesn't apply to you, then just ignore it.
 
Welcome, messymess!

It's good when the other partner(s) show up too to help fill in the gaps.

I agree with Boring -- post here if you want this thread to be turned into a blog thread in the blog area. Or just go start a thread there you both write in and both read so you can move through talks better. I still think you could seek a counselor to help you in this hard transition time AND with the original "together too much" problems.

He suffered the loss of friends a LOT because of this problem -- the need to engage with OTHER PEOPLE. I'm sure there's more to the story -- but you guys living in a bubble with just each other? That's not healthy. You both get cabin fever.

I'm not criticizing either of you. I'm telling you how it appears based on info given from the outside looking it. He asked for feedback - that's how it looks. I know it is Hard to Hear, but there's a lot of hurting people here and being avoidy won't move anything forward.

He was writing all emotionally flooded --- like bllllleaaaaahhhhh! Overwhelmed to the max. Even though you write it from a less emotionally flooded place -- it is still the same things though. Nothing I said changes.


You and your husband guys are together too much -- working from home like that.

Is it possible for one of you to get a job elsewhere? Even without the GF issues this arrangement is rough on your mental health and emotional health and that affects the couple health.​

She could straighten up and fly right and be more honest from the start and not so avoidy.

Whether she enjoyed it later or not, she still went ahead with something she didn't want to do for your sake, and ignored a fragile partner person (your DH). That muddies waters and is not contributing to clear communication.​

YOU still want them together more than HE or GF want to be together on their own power.

You can't force that. Let it go. It is a LIMIT.​

But before I freak her out… I was trying to figure out if its something that my husband is even open or ready for. And especially after reading all of this and seeing the way the responses have affected him, I’m pretty sure he is not. Especially since I don’t see him having the patience to wait for her to come around without feeling rejected. I don’t want him to ever feel rejected.

He needs to state his limits clearly. Out loud.

"I cannot handle polyamory with your cheating partner. I cannot handle polyamory at all." He could straighten up and fly right by being firmer on his limits. Talk the talk and walk the walk. Not say/want one thing but be doing another. That does not contribute to clear communication.​


When he does it? YOU need to LISTEN.

Otherwise you are still trying ostrich and ignore him to force fit something that just doesn't want to go there naturally. You are trying to polyamory-ify a cheating affair.

At best it might be a V if the trio talks and comes to terms, but when all the players are NOT in agreement?

You prolong suffering because you want to have them both and basically YOU don't want to decide. Going against their will and best health (mental health, emotional health, physical health, spiritual health) for what? Your own greedy selfish? Being avoidy on your ethics?​


You guys still must talk. In trio in the same room. Not you being the middle mand. Choose to end the suffering for all with intention.

First, you are already stressed as the hinge person. You don't need to get into a "he said she said" deal. Talk in trio in the same room, avoid triangulation muddy communication waters.

No it is not fun. Do it anyway.

Because if the trio avoids talking in trio? Eventually he will choose to end the suffering and walk away from all this because he is redlining. Or she will.​

Each of you must be totally honest in trio talk and state your clear wants, needs, and limits. Accept some things will NOT match up.


Where is the compromise? Where is the best solution for ALL -- in all the health buckets? Not just one player or two players, but ALL players?

Do you have to have her over? Can't see her on Fridays at HER place and not have her see him? Would that work for you? For him? For GF?

Can he live with your being friends but not lovers? Can YOU live with being friends with her but not lovers? Can she?

Is it best for all players to call this thing quits even it sucks? Because the thing just does not match up and will not fly? Stop trying to make it fly.

Some choices in life are not win or lose. But this choice sucks and that choice sucks. Which sucks the least? Choosing together to break up or going on with endless suffering til someone blows a gasket?​

I don’t see him ever being able to handle the “V” thing, and I wouldn’t want to ever get more than he was. I’m struggling to see how that even works for people without the ends of the V feeling a little empty or less special.

Because the V ends SIGN UP for that kind of relationship from the get go. They want it and that arrangement feeds their needs. They do not have it foisted upon them.

What you have is a cheating affair and trying to polyamory-ify it. (In that article you would be the cheating husband. He would be the wife. ) That's whole other story than all players choosing a V shape polyship for themselves.

The odds of a polyship all working out from a cheating start are not great. If all parties are willing to try -- maybe. It is not impossible. But all players have to really want to do the work to rebuild broken trust, and the original issues before the affair.

Again -- I know what I wrote may be Hard to Hear. :(

If you love him most, end it with her if it turns out that is HIS hard limit. But he needs to tell you what his hard limit is and not go along with things compromising himself just because he wants to get a threesome or finally be with his crush or have some kind of revenge affair.

If it is a soft limit -- he needs to articulate what he can and cannot tolerate once and for all. You guys just friends? Ok, you pony up losing the lover part of it. So does she. What does he pony up? Working on forgiveness? Or is he going to hold it against you forever?

He has to straighten up and fly right. State and obey his own limitations.

You and GF need to recognize that your continued affair (now in front of his face) is causing him pain. She's just as guilty for the cheating as you are -- it takes two to tango. STOP the affair. You keep ON going with it knowing he is in fragile mental health -- what's that say about you two?

Everyone in time out for Trio Talks. It isn't just him straightening up. The ladies must straighten themselves up and fly right too. You are being awful to him. It's not flattering to either you or the GF. The affair is OVER.

Now you must CHOOSE.

You guys could talk as a trio to see where this is going to go from this point.

Make the apologies that need to be made to the right people, from the right place.

Talk in trio -- sort yourselves out. IF after a break to deal with the process of grief, he finds he is open to your trying to date again, this time from an Open and Honest place? Then start a NEW relationship with her. And slow it way down this time and take the time to check on each other's health buckets more.

If that is a LIMIT and it is just not possible? You must accept this and decide -- break up with her, break up with him, or break up with BOTH. Then pick up the pieces of whatever it is you are at.

I truly hope you guys get to better footing, in whatever shape the next configuration is to be.

Namaste.
GalaGirl
 
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I don't think its a matter of either of us not admitting limits or things as much as figuring out what they are as we go along. I would not continue down a path that I knew my husband was not agreeing to. I have not continued on anything behind his back without his knowledge or with the intent of keeping things open for all of us. I think that as with anything, this has been an up and down process that just very recently has turned this way... the day he wrote this post. I think we all believed he was ok with everything until that day that something snapped and he realized he was not.

My friend has no idea that any of this is going on... and does not know that he knew about us before the threesome was suggested. I'm crazy nervous about that conversation, but i know it has to happen sooner or later with her. She doesnt want to make the dynamic between the three of us weird. But I agree that we can't go on without everyone understanding the full picture.

Thank you for the thoughts
 
She doesnt want to make the dynamic between the three of us weird.

Too late, it already is weird, whatever "weird" is supposed to mean. If "weird" is the opposite of "ideal" or "usual" then it definitely sounds like it's weird.
 
I don't think its a matter of either of us not admitting limits or things as much as figuring out what they are as we go along.

Why would this be needed? Because you are not truth telling. You broke a boundary with your friend and did not own up to it right away. Mistakes can happen. But you did not apologize to him right away and own it. Have you apologized now for that part? I hope so.

Then make an intentional plan in TRIO. Please do no bungle along trying to figure your way out of this mess as you go along. We can't help how we feel. We CAN help how we behave in response to those feelings. We can choose to react or act with intention.

Both have their uses. We REACT to get the kid out of the street when the car is coming. It is not the time for deliberation. But I'm hoping you guys are done reacting to this relationship problem. All you've gotten so far is reacting all avoidy. It is the type that is better solved by acting with intent, deliberations, facing things, etc.

I would not continue down a path that I knew my husband was not agreeing to.

He agreed to an affair? This does not sound like agreement:

I confronted my wife almost immediately. We were alone, in our house, and I just broke down in tears. Everything that I have been battling, all the emotions along with this devastating discovery absolutely destroyed me.

Later when he told you about discovery of the affair and you saw how much he did not want this you offered a threesome for what purpose? Is that not leading him down a path you know he's not up for?

He was thinking about a divorce and in a mentally fragile state. You throw other Shiny Distractions in there. That is not clear communication. That is taking advantage of fragile.

It is what it is. I am not blaming or judging. I am pointing out because if you guys want to NOT BE IN THE PLACE AGAIN -- something must change. And you can only change yourselves and your behaviors. Not each other. Everyone must hold their own baggage.

If you want to not continue down a path he is not on board with, or a path she might not be on board with, you must talk in Trio. Check in with your people before you decide to do things that concern them.

I'm glad you are moving that way toward a talk in trio. When's your appointment time to talk? How's your conflict resolution skills? Do you know you can pause if anyone emotionally floods? Some things take more than on session to solve. Take the talk in trio as opportunity to plan and be intentional about it. Not just wing it.


I have not continued on anything behind his back without his knowledge or with the intent of keeping things open for all of us.


He already outed your affair. It isn't like you have a choice. In order to still be with her you have to do it in front of him rather than behind his back. He already knows. Your intent to keep things open for all? Not so noble -- it means you still get yours that way. It's time to perhaps think the other way -- closing. If closing is what is healthiest for your partner(s), then that has to be considered too. What is healthiest for ALL, not just individuals.

I think that as with anything, this has been an up and down process that just very recently has turned this way... the day he wrote this post. I think we all believed he was ok with everything until that day that something snapped and he realized he was not.

I beg to differ. Let's not be avoidy.

Did you not just write your GF does not know all this is going on? That is NOT "we all believed he was ok."

That is you and him thought you could solve this behind her back -- and allowing her body to be used by you two without her being given full information of the situation. Do you think she would have been happy for a threesome knowing he knew of the affair?

If she is totally fine with it -- are YOU happy dating a person who cares so little for your DH's feelings that they are ok using his body? Causing him distress? If you love him so, how is allowing him to be used like this loving behavior?

Did he not out your cheating texts and want a divorce? Two days later you dangle the threesome carrot. You and DH go away for a weekend and bring it up to her and 2 weeks after that the threesome happens. From divorce devastation to threesome carrot in 2-3 weeks? This is enough time to get over a cheating betrayal affair thing?

Nope. Both of you were avoiding dealing with your original marriage troubles in favor of the weekend away and threesome carrot distraction.

Let's call it what it is. It is NOT "everything is ok." It is you and DH being avoidy. Her not being clear in her communication/avoidy.

Not enough truth telling all around. Even if you all decide to fly this polyship in the shape of a V if you don't solve this communication/truth telling thing you are headed for more wacky.

My friend has no idea that any of this is going on... and does not know that he knew about us before the threesome was suggested.

And this paints you as a truth teller how? Paints DH as a truth teller how? Witholding information is lies of omission. Break this habit. It does not assist clear communication.

I'm crazy nervous about that conversation, but i know it has to happen sooner or later with her. She doesnt want to make the dynamic between the three of us weird.

Sooner is better. It is already all kinds of weird. From avoidance. So what if you feel uncomfortable? You GET comfortable talking in trio about emotional things by DOING.

If you feel this way about him (that you love him with all your heart) , and you also love her -- I hope you start behaving with loving behavior toward them then even if it is hard to do. That is part of what love is.

Don't try to force fit and fly and thing that doesn't want to fly. Take a good look at it and assess it. But then accept the results if the results are not a flier.

Some choices in life are this sucks and this sucks. Then you just have to pick which sucks least. If the most loving thing you can do to help their long term mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual healths is to let them go? One or the other or both? Then this you must do.

Thank you for the thoughts

You are welcome. Again, I know it is Hard to Hear.

But straighten up. You can do it! I keep hoping you will all find your way.

GL!

GG
 
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I'm going to take a bit of a different tack here. As I was reading the husband's original posts, I was struck by how charming the whole situation seems. (He and his wife both fell in love with the same person? How cute!) And I felt that overall, his relationship with his wife seems pretty good, all things considered.

I know some people want to come down strongly on cheating. But this seems like a prime example of a case where cheating should not be that big of a deal or that big of a betrayal.

Yes, Messymess cheated on her husband and initially was lying outright about it. But, meanwhile, Polyscared was himself engaging in emotional cheating (albeit one-sided cheated since the object of his affections was in the dark about it). For months, he spent hours a day thinking obsessively about his crush on his wife's best friend, tormented with fantasies about her, confiding these feelings to his own best friend but not to his wife. His connection with his wife drifted during this time, in part because he was being dishonest with her by not sharing the fact that he had fallen in love with someone else.

Please appreciate the adorable, charming aspect of this story. A husband and wife each fall in love with other people, and keep that love secret from each other. Then it turns out they have fallen in love with the same person. How cute is that! Think of it as a twist on the "Do You Like Pina Coladas" song.

Messymess clearly feels bad about the cheating. Certainly, it was wrong to act on her feelings before talking to her husband. But I can imagine a situation in which a close, cuddly friendship progressed slowly into fooling around, until suddenly it was too late and Messymess found herself in over her head. (Yes, that's point where she should have confessed all to her husband instead of hiding her text messages, but people don't always do the right thing, and Messymess knows she did wrong).

I think there is also some leeway for forgiveness in a situation where both members of a married couple have been together since adolescence. If you have never had feelings for anyone else since you were fifteen, you will have no idea how to process those feelings when they happen. (It's pretty rare, in fact, for anyone to have feelings for only one person throughout their entire lifetime. But no, you don't always have to act on it).

For what it's worth, it sounds like your love for each other and your communication with each other are solid. I think you'll get through this.

Now, as for the main problem. Polyscared feels left out of his wife's relationship with her best friend. Well, unfortunately, it sounds as if the best friend simply isn't in love with the husband, and is maybe only halfway interested in having sex with him.

That's sad, but that's just sometimes the way it works out. In most threesomes, two people often have a stronger connection to each other. It's very rare for the "third" to connect equally with both members of a couple. (Maybe in this case, the best friend simply doesn't experience romantic feelings for men).

Polyscared, you don't really have a right to demand that your wife only be involved with her best friend if you can be involved with her too. You do have a right to ask that your wife stop seeing her friend and work on your marriage; but you also may choose to allow your wife to have a poly relationship that does not include you.

It does sound like the best friend is a bit immature. If she really can't handle any type of emotional communication, she might not be the best candidate for either you or your wife to be involved with.

On the other hand, she might simply have a different communication style than you are familiar with. Some people just require more patience.

As for the sexual problems: stop having threesomes with the best friend if you can't talk to her about basic things, such as how you like to be touched during sex, and how you have feelings for her but feel unsatisfied in your interactions with her.

(Definitely take alcohol and pot out of the equation entirely).

Also, read as much as you can on this forum to see how different forms of poly work for the various people who have poly relationships.
 
Please appreciate the adorable, charming aspect of this story. A husband and wife each fall in love with other people, and keep that love secret from each other. Then it turns out they have fallen in love with the same person. How cute is that! Think of it as a twist on the "Do You Like Pina Coladas" song.

Um... no? I don't find anything cute or charming about it. It left the "cute" arena ages ago when it stopped being a mutual crush at a distance.

I don't think Polyscared or Messymess are finding it cute or charming either. Calling it "cute and charming" minimizes their pain. Why else would he and she be posting to try to sort themselves out? :(

This is Hang Time at the Forge for these people. Going through a tough situation. Hopefully they will make it out the other end ok one way or another stronger and wiser for the experience.

I do agree with your other points. What is done is done. Something must change in how they deal with each other in relationship.

These folks could try to move it forward and get back into right relationship with each other and try to carry on their future interactions in relationship in a better way. Learning from mistakes hurts. But sometimes that's how one grows. People are human, mistakes happen. It's now all about HOW they choose to cope with it now.

Polyscared, Merrymess, GF (sorry don't have any other name for you) -- I really do hope you find your way to a better future. It isn't easy to come to a board to ask for feedback. It's a brave thing to do -- but don't stop there! Keep on going! Have that trio talk and sort yourselves out.

I know full well what I write is Hard to Hear. Critique is not the same as Criticism. My intent is to try to help you see where it could have been different for next time, not pile on more hurts. I really hope you don't find yourselves in THIS situation again because you'll have more ideas for how to handle it in another way. Change your way of going so you don't have to hurt like this again.

Hopefully move yourselves forward to a place where you can love each other in right relationship without underlying pain.

How can other people help support you in your time of need? Links to resources? Was just airing out your story all your wanted to do?

best wishes,
GG
 
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This is a lot of info here. My husband and I have been talking a lot about the situation and the direction we are going to take. Hours a day actually... so although its GalaGirl's favorite word... we are definitely not being "avoidy" anymore ;)

To be clear... it was not a back to back thing of "oooh you caught me... how about you sleep with her and we make it better" Obviously this all has been a process. A lot of talking. A lot of arguing. A lot of feelings. Yes... a lot of apologizing. I have not been the wife I promised to be...and I am not denying that. The threesome suggestion came out later... after we talked about his feelings for her... and how the two of them never acted on their flirting. I know she is attracted to him... and I know that she cares a lot for him. With me caring for him, and also caring for her, and realizing he cared for her too... it just kinda... went that way. I wasnt trying to avoid or distract. I wasnt even trying to suggest it to keep things going with her and I, although I know it may seem that way. My husband and I have never been with anyone else... I guess I just wanted him to feel it too. And obviously was excited about the threesome idea myself of course.

My husband and I will continue to work things out and talk. We understand that we have a lot of things to work on in our own relationship. We have been questioning the idea of moving more into this whole "poly" world. Its an incredibly new idea or thought to either of us.

From our recent talk, we have talked about the idea of him dating a bit. It seems he's more upset about the idea that he will never experience the type of other relationship that I have more than he is upset about the idea of the two of us together. We realize there could be a lot of problems with this and are being very careful and thoughtful about as much as we can. I am sure we will ask for plenty of advice and thoughts here once we figure out what direction we will go in. Regardless... we will not jump into anything until we know we are ready.

It may not have been painted here very well... but I firmly believe in mine and my husbands relationship... along with our ability to communicate. Everyone knows there's always a lot more to a story than a page of text... and our story has gone on for over 15 years now. 12 of which we've spent all of our days and nights together. To say that we don't have a strong relationship would be crazy. This is completely something we've had no thoughts or experiences with... so its incredibly new for us... and we are learning and figuring this out as we go along.

I appreciate everyone being open-minded of both sides, and taking the time to share their suggestions and thoughts. Its nice to know that we have so many other experiences and ideas to help down this path.

We are leaving this weekend for a week vacation with a group of friends... and are hoping to have a great time and check out of this situation for a bit. When we get back... we will come up with our next step.
 
Your relationship

What a mess you have caused for yourselves,
well hears another different take on this.

1)you are way to analistic, stop the nit picking its driving you crazy.

2) most of this is coming from the fact you both havent really had anyone ell's
so you feel this great sense of betrayal, im sorry but there are no more
virgins left in the world, none virgins are wonderful, the fact this
girl has fingered your virgin wifes cunt does not make your wife a slut.

3) Any openminded grown man knows for his wife or girlfriend to have sex with
another girl its not really cheating, only closed minded insecure men think
like that, a real man will embrace her bisexuallity, there is no cock involved
they are just enjoying there sensuallity with lots of Oral, plus Hey! you may
get lucky.

4) Bisexuality in females is normal and natural since the world began, in the old
days when men went to war and gone for years and the females left at home
it was called giving sexual comfort to each other,only repressive religious
inspired society denies this and should be ignored.

5) You and your wife have become sexually and emotionally attached to this
girl, its almost as if you both have seperate lovers, but its the same girl that
has a emotional deficit disorder, she has fire walls that stop her from
enjoying both of you sexually and emotionally at the same time, that stops
her from agressivly servicing you (even if she wants to) but not with your
wife there, not wanting to look like she is betraying your wife, you sence this
in her, this creates lack of performance with you and possibly jealousy
towards your wife knowing she can make her cream without you..

6)Neither of you want this, but dont want to lose her, it may be good for her
the way she choses to be, but an emotional disaster for you and your wife.

7) You and your wife need to face the music and realize fucking her seperate
will never work, you need to start thinking about fucking her like a loving
inseprable team. Forget the singular emotions or fucking her seperatly in a
different room or one on one, you and your wife need to be their for each
other, wife behind her holding her while you fuck her, verbally urging you
on "fuck that tiny cunt baby, give it to her hard, oh yes fuck that slut, you
doing the same urging her to make her cum on her tongue make her cum all
over your face baby, Once she see's you working together as a team to fuck
her brains out she will lose her dominant control of both of you, her fire
walls will melt, her own body without her mind control will become sexually
agressive like an animal begging you not to stop, she will become your fuck
slave, Deep down thats what she wanted, what did she get at first, a couple
that was to timmid and dithering so she called the shots, no she is not going
to run away, she will be addicted to your cock and your wifes sweet pussy,
any emotional need will be coming from her not you two, you and your wife
will be so much in love and she will be like your adopted incest daughter
you can thank me later.
 
My husband and I will continue to work things out and talk. We understand that we have a lot of things to work on in our own relationship. We have been questioning the idea of moving more into this whole "poly" world. Its an incredibly new idea or thought to either of us.

From our recent talk, we have talked about the idea of him dating a bit. It seems he's more upset about the idea that he will never experience the type of other relationship that I have more than he is upset about the idea of the two of us together. We realize there could be a lot of problems with this and are being very careful and thoughtful about as much as we can. I am sure we will ask for plenty of advice and thoughts here once we figure out what direction we will go in. Regardless... we will not jump into anything until we know we are ready.

Oh, good! I'm glad you guys are talking. :)

It IS hard to tell what is what from a distance merely in writing. No body language, voice inflection -- can only go by face value of what is written.

Only you guys know what it going on there in real life.

Glad to hear things are moving forward even if the sorting yourselves out process is challenging.

Hang in there!

GG
 
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