The Struggling Mono Thread

Carl, I don't mind feel free to mention anything that clicks with you in my posts. You are right there was some deceit and betrayal at the beginning of my situation too. I was so angry and hurt I almost went insane the first few days. My wife actually ran away those two days after I found out, she was afraid. I spent two days walking around trying to find the other guy to kill him. I don't remember much it was just a red haze. I don't like to think about all that now.
 
I get what you mean about the red/haze.

My rage has been mostly the result of a loving wife going from truly considering (NOT always agreeing and in fact, often we didn't agree prior to this arrangement) my feelings, to almost not at all..

And feelings are a bit tricky... because while I can admit I'm an emotional person what's bothered me a lot in this is that no one in the beginning wanted to truly discuss logistics and how it was all going to work out, except for me.

I was accused of looking too far ahead, pushing the situation into what it was/is now, because I was anticipating. What I was actually doing was preparing, for the inevitable as I listened to her and HER feelings, observations and struggles.

At this stage, everything I 'feared' has come to fruition more or less, but without my very much needed input. We're barely into month 3 of this 'arrangement' and it's not really yet an arrangement at all. We're fumbling through this without any sort of plan, without any sort of true discussion on limits and boundaries (which seem to be tossed out the window -- especially when they're my own).

Frankly, it's a huge mess right now, and you can imagine, I've grown rather tired of being the only one that's interested in making suggestions that can fit for all of us.

From my perspective, with the exception of my freak out moments, I'm wondering why am I the only adult here? And I'm barely one at that.

this isn't very coherent today but again, I appreciate this space right now. It's been too hard to carry this all alone.
 
this isn't very coherent today but again, I appreciate this space right now. It's been too hard to carry this all alone.
No, no, you're very coherent, and I think you can and should be able to say to her what you wrote in your last post, if you can do it without lashing out and simply state what you're feeling. It sounds like she needs to listen. Reality check.
 
Somebody tell me that it's perfectly okay to say I don't WANT this. I don't. I WANT the feelings a mutually monogamous relationship give me. I DON'T want to share my wife's affection, love, whatever it is that you want call it. Nope. Not for me. I. DON'T. WANT. IT.

I'm tired of being accused of not accepting her "as she is." Oh yeah? If this is how you are, you should have said something TEN FUCKING YEARS AGO before we got married and had THREE FUCKING KIDS.

So now, she gets mad at me for being on the fence. I don't want to live with this. I don't want to drink whatever Kool-Aid it is that monos drink to be perfectly okay married to a poly. Fuck, no. I don't want it. But I don't want to leave. I don't want to start over. I don't want to disrupt my kids' lives. I don't want to support TWO households financially now (she doesn't work).

And yes, I'm actually talking to my old girlfriend again (I think I called her Bree on this forum). Hell, met her again IRL last weekend. Fucked her brains out (when I could actually manage to get it up, which was difficult, thanks to this total mindfuck of a situation). More sure than ever that I love her - Only I can't tell her this because she's so weirded out by all this that the ONLY way she'd agree to see me is if we didn't apply labels to anything and was just "us." I mentioned last night on the phone I'd like to see her more regularly and she said she sees the appeal, but it would put our label-less friendship at risk. So apparently I've messed her up in the head so bad that she can't even consider a real relationship now.

So...

Stay. And be miserable being fucking cuckolded once a week against my will and told that any objection to it just isn't being fair.

Or...

Leave. Fuck up my kids' heads for life. Ruin myself financially at 32. And hope and pray that maybe Bree comes around to wanting something real with me. Or play the field, something I never was any good at when I was single.

Fuck this shit so god damned much.
 
It IS ok to feel all of these things dear sir.

The problem is that in this life there are many (and this is obviously going to be one for you) situations where we don't get to choose to DO "what we want" or "what feels right" or "feels good". We have to choose between choices we don't like, don't feel right or don't feel good.

Which choice will work "the best" for you out of the choices/options you see for yourself? That's the real question.

It hurts, I know it does.
I've been in situations where every choice I had felt like a big huge fuck you slamming into my head. I'm sorry that you are hurting.
It sounds like it may be a good time for you to take a weekend to yourself and just go do something for yourself, give yourself some time to just think through your actual options, and the real consequences of those actions so that you can decide what to do and then put your whole heart and mind into it.

Good luck.
 
Ditto Baby, feelings are always OK. It's Christmas Eve here and with every minute I stay here typing the traffic is building. So I haven't got time to do your post justice but I just wanted you to know that I feel your pain and I'm sending you many, many hugs.

Keep communicating, I'll post properly later. What I would really like to do is communicate with Bree!

Stay strong, a Romantic Greek is a very desirable kind of person to be.
 
I'm sorry for my outburst. I've been... up and down. One minute I feel okay, the next I'm boiling over.

I look at the life I have... had. And I want it back. I don't want to be a primary - I want to be an only. I tried. Good god, I tried. Anybody can read the posts I've made here and see how I wanted to try. But I just can't do it. I can't let go. Sage, I know you've written books (literally) on the subject. I don't mean to disparage your fine work. I just... I feel abandoned. Every relationship with a woman I've ever had, going back to those first crushes in jr. high, ended in me being abandoned.

I want mutual monogamy. I don't know why. Intellectually, I understand poly. I get why you folks do it. I get what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to love her anyway. I'm supposed to push jealousy aside and feel compersion. I don't. I don't even really want to anymore. She's my wife. The things that she shares with her boyfriend (not the one I've previously mentioned, she has one locally now) are supposed to be between us. And yes, I know "supposed to" is subjective. I'm just stating my feelings, and, contrary to what my dear wife would assert, I'm not just parroting a lifetime of repressive patriarchal societal conditioning. I consider myself so progressive, but I can't get past this.

And so I think about separating. We had basically decided on it as of Tuesday night, and I was at peace. Except I had, of course, made the assumption that I could have Bree. When I remove that assumption, when I remove the feeling that she gives me, the feeling of being loved the way I need to be loved, I'm terrified. I don't know how to leave. I don't want to leave my kids. My house. My pets. Even stupid little things, like parking my car in the garage. Apartments don't have garages. I like parking my car in the garage. I bought a house with a 2-car garage so I could do this. Why should I have to sacrifice that? And the list of little things like that go on and on...

Why do I think I can't have Bree? She said to me months ago that she wanted us to be honest with each other and just be us. No labels, because labels bring expectations. She's stressed by the situation with me and my wife. She's stressed by grad school. She's stressed by situations at odds with her principles (did I mention her grad school is a seminary?). I don't think she wants the stress of a relationship... But then... what are we? We're in constant contact (IM, text, etc.). Out of the blue she invited me to see her last weekend, and we had SO much fun. We're so... great together. And our parting on Sunday was hard on us both. Before I'd even made it home, she was texting me that she missed me. She called me last night to hear my voice. But every time I try to bring up seeing each other again, or regularly, or maybe giving our "label-less" relationship a little more substance, she backs off.

Sigh.
 
I have never said (or written) that everyone can or should be in a polyamorous relationship. I say in my book that a good idea is to take inventory and work out what is really important to you. From that inventory you can work out what you really want in your life.

From what you say you want to be loved passionately and you want the material and financial benefits that you've built up over the course of your marriage. I don't think those things mean that your marriage to a polyamorous partner can't work but I think your abandonment issues will make it more difficult.

Your relationship with your wife seems problematic if you feel that she is giving affection to another party and not to you. I think that polys in relationships with monos need to work very hard to help their partners feel loved and secure. Do you think that she is doing this or do you think she would do this if you allowed her to? If a person is very angry and hurt it is sometimes hard to love them.
 
Actually Romantic Greek Guy it just struck me while I was mowing my lawns that you aren't even mono. Presumably you love two women, your problems is that neither relationship is working for you. I don't know if making either one of them mono would solve your problems
 
Leave. Fuck up my kids' heads for life. Ruin myself financially at 32. .

I completely started over at 37 my friend. Being internally healthy is much more important than being externally comfortable. Follow you're heart, not your wallet is my opinion.
 
Thank you sage. This is what I was wondering and waiting for someone to notice huge points about RG when I read the last days posts.

You are not acting like a mono RG. Or at least trying something different out that isn't monogamy.
So, let me get this straight. Wife is sharing stuff that you reckon you *own* yet you are too and that is okay? Its okay for you to meet up with Bree, fuck her brains out, finding you care for her and call it by no describing words, but you object to your wife doing the same thing and calling it poly? Hmmmm? Have I got this right?

If I have I'm sorry I am struggling to have any patience with that. I'm sorry you are hurt, but you seem hypocritical. Not to mention your fuck fest seems a tad like you were getting even. Might be wrong, please correct me if I am, but it seemed a bit fast to be rushing into sex when your relationship with your wife was not stable. Something in the way you announced you fucked her made me think you were saying "there, I did it... Okay?! Take that!" Sex complicates emotions. It does for a lot of people anyways. Therefore diving into it too early can fuck with your head.

I suggest you slow down, take a breath, adjust your thinking you own your wife or her freedom as that is her right to have and start appreciating what you've got instead.

She isn't going anywhere. You have all the things you love around you and a new woman that needs some time to adjust to this situation. Take it slow, relax, do some work on what you *think* because you were taught it from our monogamous culture and see if you come up witn the same statements you made a few posts back. If you do, then move on. If not then you have a place to start.

That's what I reckon anyway.
 
It's Christmas here now, beautiful and sunny and warm. My warmest wishes to all of you freezing your butts off over the other side of the world :) xx

I have more patience with RG. He's hurting and I know the desire to make the hurt go away by clutching onto whatever is available. Then when that doesn't help there is a strong need to have everything return to the perceived safety of monogamy.

RG I think the fact that Bree is in a Seminary does make a huge difference. I know some people with strong religious beliefs can make peace with polyamory but it's a much bigger thing. :
 
You are not acting like a mono RG. Or at least trying something different out that isn't monogamy.
So, let me get this straight. Wife is sharing stuff that you reckon you *own* yet you are too and that is okay? Its okay for you to meet up with Bree, fuck her brains out, finding you care for her and call it by no describing words, but you object to your wife doing the same thing and calling it poly? Hmmmm? Have I got this right?

... No. Not really. You know what I get from Bree? The feeling of actually being wanted. The feeling of being thought of as good company. Feeling important. I don't get that from the wife. I get comparisons ("my BF holds my hand! He listens to my problems! He does xyz, ad nauseum..."). I get told that all I want from her is sex... Which, while my libido outpaces hers considerably, isn't true. But I *do* get irritated and and lonely when we haven't had sex all week (or maybe we have, but only because she felt obligated to) and yet she's out the the door to spend the night with her boyfriend. To run all over town doing things that *we* haven't done in years because she refuses to call a babysitting agency ("But I don't know those people! I can't trust them with my kids!" What utter bullshit.) And then, yes, to have sex with this guy. Who can always do no wrong.

Is it jealousy? Yep. It sure is. I embrace that. I don't want two loves. I want one. And I want one that in turn wants one. Hypocritical? Nope. Bree lives 1000 miles away. I've seen her all of twice. And while I do have very strong feelings for her, she apparently feels like she can't reciprocate. I don't fully understand why, but does it matter? On the one side, I've got a woman that can't or won't love me like I want to be loved, and on the other, I've got a woman who... I don't know what. We had a great weekend together, but any talk of meeting again gets shut down. Yet, she was texting that she missed me before I was even home.

I find myself pissed off at both of them. Michelle for not being honest with herself and with me about who she was years ago, when it didn't matter as much. Now I've got three other lives that depend on me and my choices. Now I've wasted my twenties. I'm pissed at her for approaching this open marriage thing under the guise of "if it gets uncomfortable, we'll stop" and when I felt things were happening too fast with her current boyfriend without enough regard to my own emotions, I was told "this is who I am, deal with it."
Nice to see where I rate.

I'm pissed at Bree for not having the balls to own up to her feelings. In talking with her about our previous falling out, she said that it was because the closer she felt to me, the further she felt from God. I've no doubt she feels some of that again... But I don't see why God would punish her for following her heart. She knows she could have my whole heart, if she'd just accept it. Instead, I'm kept at arm's length. I'm her closest friend, no doubt... I know her better than probably anybody. But there's still this... barrier. She won't let me all the way in. That's part of why she's declared that she just wants to be "us" without applying labels to it. I thought it was because I was married, but she knows... KNOWS that I don't want this open marriage. She knows I want to be with her. So why does she erect this wall?

And... I'm pissed at myself. For not being okay with Michelle and her boyfriend... but at the same time, I'm pissed at myself for WANTING to be okay. For feeling like a doormat for Michelle and Bree. For being scared to do what I think needs to be done - Leaving. For not wanting to leave. For agreeing to try open marriage in the first place. For not being able to make Bree go away and just swallow my pain at that and at how Michelle makes me feel and just be strong for my kids. For fighting with Michelle. For the moments when I hate Michelle. I hate myself for marrying so young. I hate myself for even considering any of this and what it means to the kids.

I suggest you slow down, take a breath, adjust your thinking you own your wife or her freedom as that is her right to have and start appreciating what you've got instead.

I resent the notion that the desire for mutual monogamy has anything to do with ownership. And I'm not a hypocrite: I'd enter into a mutually monogamous relationship with Bree in a heartbeat. If I could. But I can't. Instead, I'm stuck with a polyamorous wife who doesn't appear to have any idea what I'm feeling or why. "I'd let you do whatever you wanted, why can't I have the same courtesy," she says. That's missing the point. But she doesn't want what I want, so maybe it's stupid and pointless that I'm still around. Other than these little things called the kids. And this life that we've spent over ten years building.

I want the life I had a year ago back... But it's gone, and I don't know what to do about it.

She isn't going anywhere. You have all the things you love around you and a new woman that needs some time to adjust to this situation.

Michelle isn't going anywhere, but I can't say the same for Bree. She won't adjust. We'll go on like this for a few years. She'll see me occasionally when she feels strong enough. Then she'll feel guilty for a few months. Wash, rinse, repeat. Then she'll go to get her second masters degree abroad in a few years, and that'll be that. She'll get married. And she'll be out of my life in that capacity for good.

And Michelle is putting incredible pressure on me to "make a decision." She can't live with my indecision she says. She needs resolution. So... whatever that means.

Take it slow, relax, do some work on what you *think* because you were taught it from our monogamous culture and see if you come up witn the same statements you made a few posts back. If you do, then move on. If not then you have a place to start.

That's what I reckon anyway.

I'm trying. Dear God, how I'm trying.
 
Right now it seems to me you're staying with your wife because you don't want to be alone. That doesn't sound that good to me. Doesn't sound very respectful of her either that you'd leave her in a heartbeat to run away with Bree but want to hold on to her if she's the only thing you have.

I think it might be best for you to just break things off even if it means being alone afterwards. Then you can rebuild yourself, decide what exactly you want, and work from there.
Or you could decide to stay, but then you'd have to be really into it. And I don't think you are. It doesn't sound like it's working out for you. I realise I could be very wrong but that's the way it looks to me right now.

I wish you the best, but I think you really need to figure things out for yourself here. And make decisions you can control. You can't control other people, you can only control yourself. Right now you're resenting these women for trying to do what they feel is best for themselves, but you need to start doing the same too, in my opinion.
 
... No. Not really. You know what I get from Bree? The feeling of actually being wanted. The feeling of being thought of as good company. Feeling important. I don't get that from the wife. I get comparisons ("my BF holds my hand! He listens to my problems! He does xyz, ad nauseum..."). I get told that all I want from her is sex... Which, while my libido outpaces hers considerably, isn't true. But I *do* get irritated and and lonely when we haven't had sex all week (or maybe we have, but only because she felt obligated to) and yet she's out the the door to spend the night with this guy. Who can always do no wrong.
This sounds like poor communication skills. Using statements that lay blame and say "you" did something is not communicating well. Have you tried learning some new ways to communicate? We use techniques that have really helped. We have studied communication for years ("Non-violent communication" or "compassionate communication") and have some really good skills that make us open up, feel safe and that really help get our feelings and needs across. Perhaps some therapy around this would help.

I hear in what you are saying that she demands from you and you demand from her. I want this and I want that. I also hear that you are angry because neither woman is doing what you want... valid, but not going to get you very far. Until you talk about your feelings in safety to them I doubt you will end up being with either of them. Until they have a safe space to talk about theirs too I doubt they will want to stay with you either... that kind of thing doesn't seem to resolve and even if you go on to another woman and communicate the same way, it will be the same thing... in my opinion. Communication skills are learned, we don't get them handed to us at birth. One has to learn to empathize, advocate for our needs to be met and to really listen and ask questions in such a way that is respectful. It's hard work, but so much more is solvable.

I really don't think you need to leave personally, I think this is still salvagable. I think that you are stuck and it hurts and you want out, but with a more effort I think you could turn it around. I would suggest doing some conflict resolution stuff. Talk about what you see happening around you without emotions about it, then talk about how you feel about it, without using "you" statements (it might be an idea to go over in your head what you are going to say on that one as its easy to fall into blame talk)... talk about your needs from the situation, stuff like "I need to feel appreciated, I need to be touched, I need some words that indicate that I am loved"... then ask for those needs to be met and start strategizing about how that might happen.

Then ask her what she thinks from where she sits and when either of you start getting into the blame thing, stop and start again. Realize that you both do it and remind each other... ask what the other means in terms of what they feel, rather than what you have done wrong. It's hard work to do this and you both have to want to, so be patient. There is more info on communication in the "communication workshop" sticky.
I resent the notion that the desire for mutual monogamy has anything to do with ownership. And I'm not a hypocrite: I'd enter into a mutually monogamous relationship with Bree in a heartbeat. If I could. But I can't. Instead, I'm stuck with a polyamorous wife who doesn't appear to have any idea what I'm feeling or why. "I'd let you do whatever you wanted, why can't I have the same courtesy," she says. That's missing the point. But she doesn't want what I want, so maybe it's stupid and pointless that I'm still around. Other than these little things called the kids. And this life that we've spent over ten years building.
I'm confused. You want monogamy with your wife and your girlfriend? What do you want? I don't get it, so maybe that is why others don't too. You seem to want to be monogamous but will be poly to suit you because it would be with your girlfriend... if she decides she wants you that is in which case you will mono? If not that then you are not poly, you are back to mono...? please help me understand?

To me poly means that you can and do love more than one person. Sounds like you are capable of that and there for are a poly person... If you aren't then really you are a mono guy using Bree to move on from your wife no? and now you seem angry with her for not accepting you and removing you from your situation... how is that fair for her? I wouldn't be interested either. Why would I want to deal with someone elses crap? even if I loved them.

If this were me I would forget the girlfriend, who seems to be uninterested and confused at the moment anyways and salvage my marriage. Do the work necessary to get things back in some kind of order and ask your wife to rise to the occasion to do the same. Put other lovers on hold until things are on the way to being sorted. Poly relationship dynamics such as yours are not that solid if the foundation is cracking. Your foundation, your primary relationship with your wife, is cracking... take the time to fix it. Go to therapy and put the work in to learn some new skills and get on your feet again... thats what I would do anyways.
 
Not so good

Things were going so well before but I have made a bit of a hash of things at Christmas. I have hurt OHb's feelings and my wife and I ended up having to have a talk about things on Christmas night of all times after the kids were in bed.
Not a total disaster we are muddling through. It all came down to her not being able to be in two places at once so everything has been a compromise. :( I have to admit that OHb has acted the bigger man the last couple of days, but on the other hand he doesn't have six kids around at his place to complicate matters. I don't feel I have seen my wife at all this Christmas; when she was here it was as if her mind was elsewhere and she couldn't wait to go again.
The whole process is going to repeat next week end at New Years.
I would rather just get it over with and get back to our normal routine. :mad:
 
Hi Vodkafan

I thought it was always your agreement that your wife spend christmas eve and christmas day with you and boxing day with the other guy? So I don't really see how he has been the bigger man? After-all as you say when she's with you she's shared with you and all the kids; when she's with him there's just the two of them. You are one of my big mono heros the way you cope with it all.

If I had the feeling that Z was "elsewhere" when he was supposed to be with me sharing a very special time I would be furious. Although from her point of view I can understand that she was probably missing him especially if he was alone. Maybe it's time to think about sharing your space and would be better next year if he came to you?

I hope you will get some one on one time with your wife these holidays because that time is just so vital and precious for a relationship.

Hugs
 
It really does seem time to bring two households together no? Holidays really do show that out don't they? Eventually life can't help bring people together. That's what family is all about really. It seems we are programmed to come together. It seems to be human nature.

Sorry, how was he the better man here? It seems you were to me. No doubt your wife was concerned and missing him, but it has been her choice to divide her time no? Part of that is foreseeing how holidays will go. I find it hard to be present when Mono is not around; I can empathize. That is one of the reasons I advocated for our all coming together and being closer. Its changed things and it is nice he is close but not living in the same place so we can still be ourselves together when we can, but on holidays we are all one and it flows well.

Good luck. More holidays to come.
 
I suppose it's time to admit to myself that I'm struggling a bit again. Z has left for Australia and I'm here for at least another few weeks finishing off renovations and doing all the packing up, selling off etc.

Of course I'm missing him but there is an underlying unsettledness. There are probably many reasons for this that are not poly related but I think there is a definite poly component which I'm finding really hard to put into words (unusual for me).

It's to do with the level of commitment in a mono/poly relationship. If we were in a good mono relationship I think I would be a lot more secure in it somehow. He's told me over and over that I am his life partner, so much so that I have had to let it go with him. There's literally nothing more he can say or do. So why am I feeling like this?

He has really had to take this job for the sake of his career and the financial support of his kids. I will be worse off financially because I will be living off capital and the exchange rate isn't favourable. Because he'll have a good job he's going to make up the difference and maybe that's the problem. Maybe I feel insecure accepting financial help from him and further meshing our financial life when someone could come along and want more of him than I feel comfortable with.

We've always said we'd talk about anything like that happening and negotiate but maybe I feel that by living, at least initially, with his financial help, I would have less power somehow.

I'm working through this as I write it. I think it comes down to convenience and financial loss. I already took a big financial hit when I walked away from my marriage and I can't really afford another at my stage in life. I know I feel less secure about this side of things because Z is poly.

Poly/mono relationships seem to work well in married situations when there are children and more reason to keep them working. They work well in scenarios when neither party is losing or gaining or giving more than the other. That was what ours was. I think my insecurity boils down to the fact that we will be moving into a situation where he is in a stronger practical situation than me and that scares me.

And yes I know I have hardly mentioned "love" in all this. It goes without saying that if I didn't love this guy to bits I wouldn't even be considering the move. I suppose it's a case of "feel the fear and do it anyway" but if anyone out there can actually make sense of this babble and add anything constructive I would be grateful.
 
Sorry sage I have to rush off out but I think your statement made a lot of sense.You nailed your fears down well. It looks like you don't have too much to worry about though. I would choose to see it that by you becoming more financially dependent on z he is fulfilling his traditional male role and is actually showing his commitment to you in a practical way. May write more later as there are other things to consider in this situation. Chin up :)
 
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