Insert Witty Title Here - A Story by Kyle

KM and Arrow, what's the big deal about ex's? I wouldn't care about former loves one iota, unless I knew they were lunatics. What's the reasoning behind this? I can't quite fathom why it'd make any difference.

Exes are exes for a reason and usually those reasons are lots of drama or they ended in a screaming match or whatever. That's not the case here so I am not concerned but if it were the case I would probably have said no. Last thing I want is my wife fighting with another guy constantly and bringing that home to me. Just her being annoyed with LA is frustrating enough. If she were having fights with someone that lived here...
 
Exes are exes for a reason and usually those reasons are lots of drama or they ended in a screaming match or whatever.

I've never had things end with a screaming match, but have had some very unwelcome drama because of one ex in particular. Generally if it didn't work out the first time, it won't work out again. Sure, people change, but I would have to see some major difference in any of my exes or hubby's exes to want them in our lives.
 
Hmm, to say ex's are ex's for a reason makes it sound like all ex's should be considered assholes. I've always hated the idea of putting down and criticizing an ex just because a relationship is over, because then it makes me look like just as much of an asshole for being with that person, if they're supposedly so bad!

I've never had any relationships end because we were screaming and fighting, nor because the other person was crazy or mean or anything like that. In fact, I've mostly had really nice breakups, even if they were sad, where we just acknowledged that it's not working and wish each other the best. I always strove to be as mature as I could regarding ending a relationship. Then we can remain friends. The most painful breakup was my marriage ending, but I am sure we will be friends again someday. I think most of my relationships prior to my marriage ended because things sort of just fizzled out. Then a year or two or more later, we meet up again and hit it off. So, I guess that's why I never understood this concept of avoiding ex's at all costs, across the board, no matter what. I think, if it feels good and right, go for it!
 
I've never had things end with a screaming match, but have had some very unwelcome drama because of one ex in particular. Generally if it didn't work out the first time, it won't work out again. Sure, people change, but I would have to see some major difference in any of my exes or hubby's exes to want them in our lives.

I'm glad you haven't. I have and those breakups are awful. Sometimes the non-angry breakups can be worse. Their breakup was because of circumstances of the time, not because of either of them or how they felt towards one another so there is a chance they could work.

Hmm, to say ex's are ex's for a reason makes it sound like all ex's should be considered assholes. I've always hated the idea of putting down and criticizing an ex just because a relationship is over, because then it makes me look like just as much of an asshole for being with that person, if they're supposedly so bad!
That's not what I meant. I meant that if there wasn't a reason they wouldn't be an ex. Usually that reason is over something bad but it seems like in your case that's not true. Good for you. I wish I could say the same.
I've never had any relationships end because we were screaming and fighting, nor because the other person was crazy or mean or anything like that. In fact, I've mostly had really nice breakups, even if they were sad, where we just acknowledged that it's not working and wish each other the best. I always strove to be as mature as I could regarding ending a relationship. Then we can remain friends. The most painful breakup was my marriage ending, but I am sure we will be friends again someday. I think most of my relationships prior to my marriage ended because things sort of just fizzled out. Then a year or two or more later, we meet up again and hit it off. So, I guess that's why I never understood this concept of avoiding ex's at all costs, across the board, no matter what. I think, if it feels good and right, go for it!

I hope you can be friends with your husband again. And I agree with you which is why I told her its fine. She was happy I agreed because it was totally something she didn't expect.
 
Hmm, to say ex's are ex's for a reason makes it sound like all ex's should be considered assholes. I've always hated the idea of putting down and criticizing an ex just because a relationship is over, because then it makes me look like just as much of an asshole for being with that person, if they're supposedly so bad!

I don't think any of my exes are assholes and have been friends off and on with a few of them, but we didn't work for various reasons and I don't see the point of revisiting that.

Kyle - I think you're right that since they broke up due to situational aspects and not personality or relationship issues, it is fine to try again since the situation is different.

I suppose it all depends on the circumstances. For me, I would not want to rekindle anything with any of my exes because it was a personality or fundamental belief issue that caused those relationships to end, and those situations have not changed. If I'd had a relationship end because we were too far apart, other obligations limited developing a relationship, or something like that, I would not hesitate to give it a try again if the opportunity arose.
 
KM and Arrow, what's the big deal about ex's? I wouldn't care about former loves one iota, unless I knew they were lunatics. What's the reasoning behind this? I can't quite fathom why it'd make any difference.

I'm specifically referring to the most recent exes, both mine and his. I wouldn't be comfortable with her as a metamour because when they were together before, there was always the threat of violence and sometimes a follow-through as well on her end anytime they argued. I don't want to feel unsafe, I don't want him feeling unsafe, and I don't advocate objects being tossed and thrown around the room whenever one doesn't get their way.

I happen to be relatively good friends with my ex, and if I remember correctly my s/o wouldn't have an issue with us getting together. However I'm not comfortable with the idea. I really believe we're at our best with each other as friends and nothing more.
 
Thursday Afternoon, Friday, Saturday Morning - The Last 48 Hours

Someone cue Kiefer Sutherland and start the 24 hour beeping clock noise.

Thursday
I left off talking about my wife and B. I really shouldn't make posts from my phone because I left out quite a bit of detail and I had a lot of typos and errors that I can't fix now because it's been too long... T.T

As those of you reading have probably figured out, I thought about it some more and I'm fine with her seeing B. I've met him before, he's not a bad guy (he's not a great guy either, but hey, no one is perfect), and now that I know more of why they broke up I feel like it's not as big of a deal if they see each other again. So long as he isn't trying to shanghai her from me I'm fine with it. I also was very suspicious of how he came back into her life so I asked her for more detail. She gladly gave it, which made me a lot more comfortable. Here's how it all happened (maybe not all in the right order, I can't remember). He wished her a happy birthday on facebook and asked her how she was doing, they conversed a bit, she eventually said that she had a unique relationship that likely would not include him, he inferred that to mean that we were poly/swingers/etc, somewhere in there they said they'd like to get together and catch up, and he invited her on a road trip to Iowa.

Later that day A and I had a very serious phone conversation about where our relationship was going. Again I was gone longer than I expected or realized but it was an important conversation so it was good that I went. Long story short, there's someone she likes and that person is monogamous. They dated before but it didn't work out and if the other person gives A another shot... well, let's just say that A and I would just be friends if they got serious. It sucks, but I'm OK with it. A's happiness is important to me and if this other person makes her happy then that's what counts. I'm not selfish or greedy. I'm not going to be like, "No, you can't have one committed relationship when I already have my wife and am looking for another". That's just silly. I did ask her for a chance to show her that I'm not someone she should just let go, though. She said it would be a while before they were serious, if it even came to that, so to me that sounds like things will work out. Anyway, I'm not naive enough to think that this would be easy or that I'd get it right on the first try, so it's not like I'm super torn up over this. I kind of expected it really. If it works out in my favor, awesome. If it doesn't, well at least she told me about it instead of dropping a bomb on me when they did get serious. That would have hurt. A isn't like that though. She's pretty damn awesome. :)

Friday
I stayed home. I didn't feel great, but it was more because that was my last day at my current position and I hated it and I didn't want to. I'm moving to a new spot on Monday. YAY! I've said it before, but it's all I can think about. I am so excited, nervous, apprehensive, worried, anxious, everything. I know I can do it but I've never done anything like it and part of my mind is telling me I can't. I've never not been able to do a job, though, so this shouldn't be any different. Yes! Finally! We spent the day up at the park with two kids that my wife watches and my own kids. I threw a football and kicked a soccer ball for most of the day and surprisingly wasn't sore from it. I think this working out stuff is really working! Yes! I spoke to A quite a bit too, but not about anything in particular. One of our friends from Maryland showed up and we hung out with her for a while before she had to go over to her sisters for a party. I played some video games I hadn't played in a long time and overall we just had fun. At one point Katie said I had been snappy and I felt bad, because I hadn't felt like I was. So I apologized and hugged her and told her that I wasn't trying to be grumpy with her. I can't remember very many details about yesterday and I don't remember if this next part happened then or on...

Saturday
Whenever it happened doesn't matter really I guess. Iowa changed to Texas to visit B's sister. My wife and B's sister used to live together so she was up for the idea but she's not sure if she wants to go because it could be expensive and we just took on a lot more debt and she just left town for a week and she's not sure if another 3-4 days are wise right now. Depending on what happens between them she may go. I told her I felt like going far away this soon was a problem for me but if she really wanted it I'd be fine but I preferred Iowa over Texas.

My parents kidnapped my kids for the day/night and our friend and my wife hung out in town shopping all day so I was pretty much by myself. I got some errands done and did some chores to make my wife happy and spent a while typing this long thing. I also spoke to A quite a bit, mostly about me visiting. She's not sure due to the other girl, but I'm pro-Kyle and feel like they aren't seeing each other yet so there's no reason I shouldn't. Even if it's just as friends. I could control myself. I'm not a pig. I'm around attractive girls every day and I don't force myself upon them. It's her life, though, and I'm really trying not to force the issue no matter how badly I want to meet her.

I think that's it up until this point. I've been avoiding part of what's going on in my life... but after tonight I'll be able to talk about it. It's a secret though! So excited. Muwahahaha.

PS: During these three days I was told that I was allowed to break one of our "rules" with A. Well it wasn't so much of a rule as a "You need to be comfortable with this person first" and she said she was OK with it so I'm excited if it actually happens.

Also, I had sex twice. Yay intimacy. We also cuddled on the couch and kissed a lot. It's been a great couple of days. :D

I didn't throw that stuff in the story because trying to remember the order of events over 48 hours is hard. So I need to post more often.
 
Saturday - Saturation Overdrive

I'm frustrated. I don't know what causes it but sometimes I get in these shitty fucking moods that drive me up the fucking wall. I think it's a combination of things that normally wouldn't make me angry but they secretly build up and then jump out and stab me in the fucking eyeball when I'm not expecting it. God damn ninja frustrations. I have a short temper as it is and when I fight it I usually lose. So fuck. Now what? Oh yeah, I nearly type something hurtful here. Erased.

So the thing I wasn't talking about just in case my wife stumbled on here was Katie's surprise birthday party. It was a sex toy party so girls only. We all went to my friend's house to surprise her, ate, and the boys left to go back to my house. They're only a block away so no big deal. The boys and I play magic: the gathering the entire time and it's mostly fun even though some games are frustrating. I get easily irritated when I don't win but I need to learn not to be such a sore loser. Anyway, throughout the games I was mostly fine even though I fucked up and left my phone somewhere else so I hadn't realized A has texted me and I lost about an hour of time talking to her. Shoot.

Back up the story a little, right before we went over I asked A to tell me yes or no on seeing her in April and to stop making excuses. Excuses I can deal with all day long. A firm yes or no is something I just have to accept. She said no, it's too soon. I understand but it's been chewing at me ever since. During the nerd event I said some shit I regretted although I think it bugged me more than her and then I said sorry for being all pushy and... Ugh. I just really, really like her and our talks and everything. I'm falling head over heels for this girl and I can't figure out why. I asked her to promise me that no matter what we would be friends and she told me not to be silly and then I told her I wanted to meet no matter what. She agreed to that as well. I'm tired of my best friends being people I've never met and I've told her so much about myself recently that I can't see us not becoming best friends even if that's all I can have. I brought up our camping plans and she said as of now that's still on. So good news as far as that all goes, I just need to learn some fucking patience.

My wife texted me somewhere in there and said the party was over and everyone was heading to the bars. By everyone I meant the girls. I wanted to go. No, that's not true. I wanted to be around girls. The testosterone in the room was getting to me. No one was being stupid and we were having a good time but I'm tired of having good times. I want romance. I want affection. I want a LOT more than my wife is willing to give me even on her best days. I feel like even though... Fuck. I don't know. I feel frustrated that when I want hugs or kisses that I'm annoying her. I'm a touchy feely guy. I connect with people by contact, and it's killing me to lay next to this beautiful woman and wish that she were more open to all of it. But she's not. But she's perfectly fine going off with other men because she knows they don't want that. They just want sex and then to be left alone and she knows that's not what I want. Sure I want more sex than what we have too but more than that I want the attention.

I'm rambling and it's late and I'm being dramatic. I need to end this.
 
Kyle, I'm sorry that you're feeling frustrated.

I think you really need to look at your relationship with A. In one post you say:
"Anyway, I'm not naive enough to think that this would be easy or that I'd get it right on the first try, so it's not like I'm super torn up over this. I kind of expected it really. If it works out in my favor, awesome."

and then in the next: "I'm falling head over heels for this girl and I can't figure out why. "

I have had some bad experiences with falling in love with guys I'd met online.. before ever meeting them in person. Its so very very easy to fall for someone who's not in your daily life, who you've never met, who you can project everything on. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) you use the contact with her as a comfort because things with your wife are not going well. (and because your wife has this new and exciting prospect). But you don't know for sure A is a comfort.. because until you meet her in person (even though you talk to her on the phone) she's not really real. I understand she's real to you, because she's such a major part of your life right now, I'm just pointing out the dangers of falling for someone you've never met... because I've been there, done that, and it wasn't fun :(
 
Kyle, I'm sorry that you're feeling frustrated.

I think you really need to look at your relationship with A. In one post you say:
"Anyway, I'm not naive enough to think that this would be easy or that I'd get it right on the first try, so it's not like I'm super torn up over this. I kind of expected it really. If it works out in my favor, awesome."

and then in the next: "I'm falling head over heels for this girl and I can't figure out why. "

I have had some bad experiences with falling in love with guys I'd met online.. before ever meeting them in person. Its so very very easy to fall for someone who's not in your daily life, who you've never met, who you can project everything on. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) you use the contact with her as a comfort because things with your wife are not going well. (and because your wife has this new and exciting prospect). But you don't know for sure A is a comfort.. because until you meet her in person (even though you talk to her on the phone) she's not really real. I understand she's real to you, because she's such a major part of your life right now, I'm just pointing out the dangers of falling for someone you've never met... because I've been there, done that, and it wasn't fun :(

Therein lies the problem. I have met every single girl I have been serious with online. I talked about details a few entries ago but essentially I've always gone this route. So I know the rules and I'm ignoring them. I'm not being patient and taking it at a comfortable pace. I'm being pushy which is so unlike me. I think it's because I've never had someone in my life actively looking for other people and I know it isn't a race but at the same time she's been with LA and she will get to be with B before I even get a chance to meet someone. And with both she was friends before all of this and so it's not like she has to work out the social aspects. It's not a competition and I knew going in that she would get more interests than me. There was one point where my wife mentioned to me that she wanted someone to talk to like I talk to A. So it seems like we have what the other wants. She wants an ear that will listen and I want someone I can hold and hug and kiss.

I'm jumping to conclusions. A hasn't said we can't be more, she just asked me to be patient. I can do that. She's worth it.
 
I met both my lovers online, and I am a great advocate of online dating :)

about the competition thing: that's a tough one. I was talking about this with my husband just today. How would I feel if he had his girlfriend and i had nobody? There was a time like that and it made me anxious, jealous, jumpy, restless, scared, and a lot of other unpleasant things. We both recognize that a situation like that could occur again for either of us - symmetry is very hard to achieve.

I guess the challenge is being happy for your spouse and still actively pursuing your own interests without feeling bitter, hurried, jealous or lonely.

Quite the challenge huh? :D
 
I met both my lovers online, and I am a great advocate of online dating :)

about the competition thing: that's a tough one. I was talking about this with my husband just today. How would I feel if he had his girlfriend and i had nobody? There was a time like that and it made me anxious, jealous, jumpy, restless, scared, and a lot of other unpleasant things. We both recognize that a situation like that could occur again for either of us - symmetry is very hard to achieve.

I guess the challenge is being happy for your spouse and still actively pursuing your own interests without feeling bitter, hurried, jealous or lonely.

Quite the challenge huh? :D

That's the thing. I'm definitely not jealous. Maybe envious? I see what she has and I want it. I can see her cheering up more and more each day and she hasn't even gone out with B yet. She definitely needs the attention more than I do because I'm not necessarily unhappy. I'm happy for her and I'm glad she is finding people. I think we have both felt hurried at one point throughout this.
 
Sunday & Monday - Weekend Withdrawal

Sunday
I woke up in a sour mood. I went over to a friend's house with my wife and we helped him move. It took us roughly 2 hours to complete, which isn't bad when you consider most move jobs I've been a part of have either been multi-day or 8 hour events. During this 2 hour extravaganza A told me to knock off my sour mood. I tried, I failed, then I ate some gluten-free pizza and I was happier than before said pizza. I don't remember if I've mentioned it here but my son (who was not with us) and my wife (who was with me) have a gluten intolerance. I'm not going to go into super detail on that because it's identifying to anyone that knows me personally but suffice to say we stay away from gluten. ANYWAY. It was delicious. I love gluten-free food.

The day elongated, I mowed the grass (yay! my mower still runs!), other stuff happened, and eventually it was the afternoon. My wife was super nice and let me be playful with her. Then she rubbed my back with this heart shaped thing she got from her party. Basically, you boil it and then let it cool to room temperature. Then you pinch this metal thing in it and it gets harder and warms up on it's own. I don't know how to explain it very well. What I do know is that when you do all of this it makes a great back massaging tool. It would not make a good tool for any sort of non-back massaging though because it gets too warm and it has sharp seams. Moving on. It left me feeling very relaxed and enjoying my night. I talked to A for a little while but eventually we both fell asleep.

Monday
Today starts my new job. HOLY CRAP IT WAS AMAZING. I woke up and, for the first time in a long time, didn't hate having to get up for work. I got there and we received an email on some thing that was supposed to take my team (which consisted of four people today because two were out) all day to complete. Except I am a boss and completed it in 30 minutes. My new team was pretty impressed and I sent it back to the team that sent us the work and they were pretty impressed as well.

There's a lot of other really awesome stuff that I got to do at work that I'm not going to discuss on here because A. It's not important and B. I probably shouldn't be discussing the details of my job with every single person that wants to read this. Suffice to say there was a lot of different things that happened and I was so incredibly happy to be there. I spent all day super happy and didn't fuck around on the computer hardly at all, which is a good thing, considering I'm supposed to be working. :)

Oh yeah! I almost forgot! For lunch today, my wife met me for a picnic. She was supposed to go visit her sister but she came to visit me instead (no, she could not have done both, her sister lives an hour away) so that was epic. She brought me left over gluten-free pizza. I LOVE THIS WOMAN! God it was so good. Back to timeline.

Came home, told my wife and my mom about my day at work, grilled out, walked up to the local ice cream shop with my family, and talked quite a bit to A about Myer-Briggs (I'm an ENFP apparently, I took two different ones to be sure) and talked to her about my day at work (and gave her a lot more details than I gave here) and all kinds of awesome.

Today was a really good day.
 
Sounds like a nice day, Kyle. I'm not gluten intolerant, but I try to avoid it in excess as well.
 
Sounds like a nice day, Kyle. I'm not gluten intolerant, but I try to avoid it in excess as well.

It upsets my stomach now that I've eaten it less. I am going to eventually transition to no gluten because even a little makes me feel bloated. It's just so much easier to digest non-gluten products. It also limits a lot of the processed food we can eat and since my wife gets cluster headaches from MSG it's best to avoid that as well.
 
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Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday - Working Out

Tuesday
Tuesday was a crappy day. Katie was super stressed and although I had a good day at work when I came home I did something that I thought would help her and it ended up making her mad and we fought for a long time. Hurtful things were said and I took the kids out of the house to give her some space. When I came back she was fine and in a seemingly good mood but I was still upset so I went to play on the computer for a while. When it was time to work out I went out there and she asked me what was wrong. I basically unloaded everything I had been bottling up on her and told her that I understand she's not a talky person when she's in a bad mood but if she's not going to talk to me then she has to give me extra time to cool off because I can't just go into another room and be alone and calm down. I need to talk to people or I need a very long time to get over it, because I stew until my temper cools enough that logic kicks in. I told her she can't have it both ways. She either talks to me or she gives me enough space to not be flaming hot. We worked out and both of us felt quite a bit better afterwards.

I spoke to A throughout most of this fight and while I don't think she was actually siding with my wife, I felt like she thought I was going overboard. I probably was. I'm not saying A or I fought, because we didn't. I'm saying it for documentation's sake. I felt distant from both of them. That means the problem lies with yours truly. Maybe not always, but on Tuesday, that was the case. Ah well. It's in the past now.

Wednesday
Wednesday was a pretty good day. Katie brought the kids in to eat lunch with me again. When I got home Katie wanted to cuddle and kiss and be close. She didn't want to be sexual, she just wanted my attention. We ended up putting up our phones for several hours so that it was just us and we laid there and relaxed and cuddled on the couch (instead of working out). After Katie went to bed I spoke to A. She had had a pretty eventful day and had said quite a bit to me over text while my phone was put up. I felt bad for ignoring her when she pays so much attention to me all the time and I made it up to her. I also read several comics that I had bought and hadn't had a chance to read yet.

Thursday
Today has been largely uneventful. The night isn't over yet but it's getting there. Katie and I worked out, A has been busy with her own working out (everyone's getting fit! what what!) and the kids have been driving me nuts. I need to stop missing workouts. It's a serious impact on my mood and Katie said I was being snappy. Post-workout I feel much better. I plan on reading through some more comics, trying to catch up before Saturday (the day I typically go to the comic shop). A is available now so I'm going to go talk to her instead of you punks. :p

PS: I've left a voice mail for A every day mentioned in this post. I left it right after work, knowing she couldn't answer. It seems to really boost her spirits, and it makes me feel good because I get to ramble on about technical stuff for a little bit and know the person on the other end enjoys what I'm talking about. Katie gladly listens to my day but she is not interested in technology and my rambling frequently causes her to drool from boredom. :D To be clear, that's not a complaint. Everyone has their likes and dislikes and I don't mind. I try to make the stories exciting but sometimes talking about internet security is just boring. haha
 
Friday through Monday - Stripped Away

Friday
After work was a happy hour for me due to my recent change in jobs. Several people from work, plus my wife, attended. We had a good time and all things went well and eventually the night got old and there were only five of us. The same group of five that was there last time we had a Happy Hour (minus my wife, she was in LA). Same as last time, it was suggested that we go to the nearby Strip Club. It may have been my suggestion. Okay, it was my suggestion. This time the suggestion took and off we went. It. was. AMAZING! I'm not going to go into details but my wife and I had a ton of fun. So much fun that we had some fun of our own that night and the following morning. Yay!

Saturday & Sunday
Our son has really been cranky lately. He was the source of a lot of frustration for us on both of these days and we ended up fighting pretty badly with one another. Sunday evening we went to my family's for Easter and that helped calm both of us down quite a bit.

Monday
My wife brought me lunch and then asked me to come straight home after work because my son was still being bonkers. We had a relaxing evening talking to one another and laying by one another and just being close while my kids slept. It was great.

Throughout those four days A and I talked a little, but not as much as we normally do. Unfortunately for me, she's pretty busy with her life right now and understandably I'm going to get put on the bench while she figures some of it out.

However, Katie referred to A as my girlfriend for the first time and I initially rejected the idea simply because I have never met A before. I spoke to A about it and... well, the important part is that her and I are on the same page and even if it is only in reference to LDR, I can now officially refer to her as my girlfriend. Wee!
 
Being 3 is incredibly hard - You're old enough to be aware of all the limits and expectations being imposed on you. It's no fun. :(

It sounds like you guys are doing the best you can with being a young couple. Kudos. :)
 
Day doesn't matter

Sometime this week my wife brought to my attention that she would rather focus on us than on other relationships. A lot of things were said and I can't remember them all. Here is what I can:

1. She feels I have emotionally cheated on her in the past and although I no longer do what she considers cheating she doesn't trust me. This means she has never trusted me because what she considers cheating happened very early on.

2. She regrets going to LA

3. She is no longer speaking to LA for the time being (her choice not mine).

4. I am not required to stop but if I don't it will very likely hurt her.

5. At this point she still believes having an open marriage is viable although she doesn't know if that will be the case after counseling.

6. She wants me to share her but she doesn't want to share me. I told her this is not an option because I'm already upset she came to this conclusion after going to LA and after I started caring very deeply about A but before I got to meet A. It's unfair. It's bullshit. Such is life. I'm letting it go.

I spoke to A about all of this. We are going to remain friends but nothing more until Katie is sure she what she wants. Katie insists there's no way she could ever be truly sure until it happens so I should just do it (after counseling) and we will deal with the consequences after. I don't think I can handle that kind of risk. I don't want to lose her over this. She says that won't happen. I doubt very much that's the truth but it's what she said and I trust her so we will see.

Even coming to this site is painful because this is who I have always been and always wanted and I got a taste of it and now it's being ripped from my hands. I'm not going to actively seek out someone new during our current hardship and besides A is the person that I want to be with and I can't until we figure this shit out so no matter what I'm stuck.

Damnit.
 
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