Plowing on ahead or slowing down ...

SNeacail

New member
I have seen alot of discussion lately on either forging ahead vs keeping pace with the slowest partner. I hear people struggling with moving too fast and in turn stall all progress. I also hear people struggling with moving too slow and wanting to plow ahead and let the other person catch up later.

When I hear about moving forward and waiting for others to catch up, I immediately think of an incident my husband and son ran into while on a backpacking trip.

A Boy Scout troop decided that a bunch of their first year scouts needed to go on a 20 mile hike. They started this hike after breakfast and had each boy pack a lunch, with the expectation that they would be done before dark and would eat once they got on the road home. By late afternoon, the group was still 4 miles from the end of the trail, it was getting cold and the sun was setting. The leader realized that he needed to get these boys off the trail fast, he told the other adults that he would take some of the boys and then return with flashlights. The slower boys and a few adults were to keep walking toward the end of the trail.

Well, the trail was unfamiliar and they thought they got lost, so they turned around. It was now about 8 or 9pm and full dark. The poor boys started to cry and scream out to see if anyone would hear them. My son and his troop were less than a mile away and they heard the boys crying and they went looking for them.

They found these boys out of water, out of food, no flashlights, no warm clothes and they were all in shorts. The tempature had droped into the high 50's. Our troop brought them back to their campsite, vacated a tent for them to sleep in and in the morning shared their breakfast with them (they were too tired to eat the night before). They then walked these boys and the adults to the end of the trail to saftey.

These boys should never have been on this hike in the first place. They were ill prepared, they did not have their 10 essentials (those in scouts know this is a big deal) and the hike was above their physical ability to complete in the time allowed. The leader forged ahead at a pace that the slower group, no matter how hard they pushed themselves, just couldn't keep up. In turn he put these boys in an extremely dangerous situation.

Standing still can be just as dangerous as leaving people behind, but is the goal appropriate for the situation? If the goal is changed, altered or scaled back, is the slowest person now capable/willing to move forward and make the effort?


I attempted to post this on the facebook site, but ran into some user originated technical difficulties, so I thought I would post it here also and add a few thoughts.
 
The problem in using your example is this: in the scenario described, the slower scouts were at least attempting to complete the hike. The slowest person in a poly tangle is not always attempting to complete the hike--sometimes they're simply engaging in a bit of denial and hoping the whole thing will go away.

The trick lies in figuring out if they're attempting to work through the process or simply dragging ass while hoping it all goes away.
 
I think it's very important to make the goal reasonable for all participants.
BUT-as Autumn noted, the participants have to be reasonably motivated to actually do the "training" required for the trip.

Example:

My 17 year old sister is signed up to do a week long trek through Denali State Park (Park where Mt. McKinley is located). There is 4 months of classwork and training to do before the hike.

Each student is expected to do this classwork and training on their own before the hike. The coordinators of the hike make the information available to the student, but they can't enforce the learning.

SO-if the student shows up unprepared, where's the breakdown?

In our relationships, if we have allowed significant time, found the resources to read, study and meet other poly-people, followed agreed upon "temporary boundaries, etc.....
at what point is the "slower person" held accountable for not choosing to make use of these things in order to work on their own insecurities, communication failures etc.... ?
 
I agree, in this case, the leader was completely at fault for not making sure his boys were prepared both with proper gear and physically. The 20 mile goal was unrealistic and unreasonable for many of the boys, it was their first hike.

This is just where my head goes when I hear of people plowing ahead and leaving others to catch up later, it scares me. This says to me that MAYBE the goal is not reasonable at that point in time. Not saying that the one diggin in their heals refusing to move forward isn't just been a 3 year old thowing a temper tantrum on the floor.
 
I wonder, though...

How often is this the problem: Someone signs up for a 2 mile walk. They show up with a bottle of water and pair of comfortable walking shoes, well-prepared for a casual stroll in the park. Then they're blind-folded, thrown in the back of a van, hauled out to Denali State Park, given some books on how to collect rain water and which mushrooms are safe to eat, and then the other hikers start down the trail.

They're told that they don't have to go on the hike, but the van's going to meet everyone at the end of the trail, so if they want to get home, they better start walking.

So they try to keep up, but it's really hard to learn about edible mushrooms and safe water collecting when you're unprepared in the forest, starving and thirsty, and the rest of your group is 3 miles ahead with CamelBaks and energy bars.

Most often, when it's just one person is struggling, it's because they never really signed up for this whole poly thing in the first place.

So quite honestly, whether your mono partner is dragging their heals or not, remember that you're the one who changed the sport midway through the game. You owe it to your relationship and partner to be as patient as they require.

If you believe that they are showing no signs of effort, then it's because they don't want to play a different sport. In that case, you need to suck it up and end the relationship so you can go do your poly thing, or else you need to give up the poly thing.

But stop complaining that your mono partner isn't making enough effort to be poly. Because they're not poly, you are.

If poly is something you need in your life more than you need that person, then you and that person are not compatible to be in a relationship.
 
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I agree, in this case, the leader was completely at fault for not making sure his boys were prepared both with proper gear and physically. The 20 mile goal was unrealistic and unreasonable for many of the boys, it was their first hike.

This is just where my head goes when I hear of people plowing ahead and leaving others to catch up later, it scares me. This says to me that MAYBE the goal is not reasonable at that point in time. Not saying that the one diggin in their heals refusing to move forward isn't just been a 3 year old thowing a temper tantrum on the floor.

So ultimately... some poly partners misgauge the ability of their mono partner to adapt. Some fail to listen, some fail to understand. Some are just too selfish. (i.e. "you're holding me back, because I want what I want...") There are other reasons too...

We've focused on the slower people... maybe a bit of examination of the leader is needed.

The leader failed to listen, failed to accurately assess the situation, and failed to re-evaluate goals... when it was obvious that the goals were too high. Why is the push so important? How long has this been discussed? Are they willing to abandon their former partner.. if that partner can't keep up?

How much is that partner worth?

I think some polys have emotionally worked through poly before they mention it to their partner... then the partner is expected to just accept it (and sometimes they do, initially). However, time takes time...
 
I must agree with Schrodingerscat.....again. :)


My wife and I have been in this situation. I sometimes feel that she is not moving forward, or at times, even trying to move forward. Then, when it all breaks down and disolves, she tells me that she was just on the edge of the precipice. I roll my eyes, and try to forget the whole previous relationship as it is painful, sometimes, to remember. The problem, is that in trying to forget, I also forget my mistakes. So.....Thank you for re-opening my eyes.
 
They're told that they don't have to go on the hike, but the van's going to meet everyone at the end of the trail, so if they want to get home, they better start walking.

That's not the case, though. To be accurate, it's a situation where everybody arrives at the beginning of the trail and then somebody says "I want to hike the 20-mile route, instead--do you want to come with me?"

Then the others get to decide if they want to take the other route or continue on without their companions on the 2-mile trail.

If poly is something you need in your life more than you need that person, then you and that person are not compatible to be in a relationship.

And if monogamy is something you need in your life more than you need that person then the two of you are not compatible.

Seriously, it is a matter of guaging compatibility. *Nobody* is forced to do poly nor forced to remain in a relationship as a mono with a poly partner.

It's a tough decision to make, certainly. Neither position (poly or mono) is any more noble than the other, though.
 
That's not the case, though. To be accurate, it's a situation where everybody arrives at the beginning of the trail and then somebody says "I want to hike the 20-mile route, instead--do you want to come with me?"

Then the others get to decide if they want to take the other route or continue on without their companions on the 2-mile trail.


And if monogamy is something you need in your life more than you need that person then the two of you are not compatible.

Seriously, it is a matter of guaging compatibility. *Nobody* is forced to do poly nor forced to remain in a relationship as a mono with a poly partner.

It's a tough decision to make, certainly. Neither position (poly or mono) is any more noble than the other, though.

Precisely.
EACH PARTNER is presumed to be an adult in these relationships. Therefore they have equal responsibility and opportunity to choose.
I've seen it go both ways-where the Mono was saying "I don't want to stay and I don't want to go" and where the Poly was saying "I don't want to stay and I don't want to go". As well as seeing it where a poly said they were going to live mono and ended up breaking rules AND where a mono said they were going to live poly and ended up breaking rules. (call 'em boundaries or agreements in this case it's just an example)

In my personal life I didn't figure it all out or work it out before talking to Maca. I shared it with him as soon as I understood the WORD-not the depth.
I asked him to consider his feelings/needs/desires and then we could sit and discuss where to go from here. I assured him that if divorce was what we decided I would settle with him out of court, with no fight.
He took 4 months, said he was "all in". Started looking for a girlfriend.

BUT-in the months that followed, he has continued to waffle back and forth about whether or not he IS actually ok with it. He admits that he's PERFECTLY ok with him having other lovers. But he's NOT ok with me having GG. So after a year of hell, we're worse off than we were when we started. Our whole family is suffering because he says he cant live like this-moves out for a few weeks, moves back again saying he was wrong and doesn't know what the hell he was thinking-then repeat.....

THAT would be the "mono" who can't fucking decide what the hell they REALLY want. He already knows that HE has insecurity issues that have NOTHING TO DO WITH GG-but are triggered by my relationship with GG. He can claim til he's blue that I have wronged him in some way-but he knows that is a lie as well-and willingly admits it when he's not in a bent.
He hasn't dealt with his personal issues about his childhood and life-they're screwing up his life, and the rest of the family's life too.

ALL of this because (claimed) because he wanted to be "Primary". I haven't plowed ahead of anything we've agreed to and in fact he's plowed ahead of me in "poly"... but he's the one who repeatedly decides to drag his feet and throw a fit and say we need to go slower for his comfort.

There is no "one size fits all" in this.
In some situations the mono does get the shitty stick.
In some the poly gets the shitty stick.
In still others both partners keep their heads out of their asses, continue to work daily on their own personal b.s. and manage to find the path to their success....
 
In some situations the mono does get the shitty stick.
In some the poly gets the shitty stick.
In still others both partners keep their heads out of their asses, continue to work daily on their own personal b.s. and manage to find the path to their success....

Ahh, and such is life. This is true of all relationships, whether poly or mono. It could be either party getting the shit end of the stick, or all parties wake up and work on it.
 
Our whole family is suffering because he says he cant live like this-moves out for a few weeks, moves back again saying he was wrong and doesn't know what the hell he was thinking-then repeat.....

That's what I'd call bad behavior--playing a game, whether intentional or not. That you tolerate it means to me that you're simply enabling bad behavior. At some point, the bad behavior has to stop, whether by him stopping it or you stopping yourself from further enabling it.

There's nothing about poly that requires people tolerate bad behavior more than if it were happening in a mono relationship. Dysfunctional behavior is dysfunctional behavior. Anything that is bad for a relationship is bad for poly relationships the same as mono relationships.

At this point, his behavior is disrupting everybody's lives and is healthy for absolutely nobody. I'll wager that little can be worked out until that behavior stops. If he can't or won't stop it, it falls to you to stop it. If you allow it continue on indefinitely, then you become as responsible for the bad behavior as he is.
 
Absolutely Autumn,

Which is why I've started making significant changes. Because I've recognized it as being "just bad behavior" and not actually "just needing time to work through it".

BUT-isn't that what it is when any person is allowing their insecurities or fears to control their behavior instead of working through those issues?

Poly/mono/single/committed-does it matter what your circumstances?

That's part of the problem as I see it. When I've written about the issues-as they arise, the answer is ALWAYS that I need to go at his pace, because he's the "slowest" (if you question my honesty-not saying you do-please feel free to read through my complaining threads). The thing is-that I did try to accept that rule of thumb, and it turned out that it's not the "right answer".

Likewise-many of the threads I've read on here that were poly-people struggling with partners who weren't ready for them to "have a lover" or "move to the next step" with a lover-were in the same boat as I am. Dealing with a partner who knew already that they had personal insecurities and fears driving bad behavior-but weren't holding themselves accountable to deal with those...

SO-I question whether it's always a good idea to tell someone to go the pace of the slowest person. I think it would make more sense to say that all parties need to address their personal issues and THEN they can address whether or not a slower pace is warranted... or SOMETHING....
:confused:
 
As the slow one in the relationship and as the one playing games ( intentional or not) I thought I would weigh in on this thread.

I feel that if you already have a SIGNIFICANT relationship established ( especially one that directly effects the well being of children) and you decide that you need to be Poly ( or any number of different alernative lifestyles) you should be OPEN to slowing down to the speed of the other partner. If your intent is to maintain that first relationship.

That is not to say that I feel that the slowest person should not put in the work and effort to "move forward". I have and do put in the work and effort to move things forward. If someone was to look back over the last few years, the changes would seem very significant. I think we ALL have a hard time seeing the extent of the change and growth that has ACTUALLY happened.We tend to look at what hasnt changed or what we dont have yet and dont spend as much energy looking at what has changed and what we do have. We look at a single set back as an eraser that removes all the progress. That, to me is as bad as purposfully dragging your feet in order to pretend or hope that things change.

I can say that I have issues with insecurities ( that dont have anything to do with Poly or GG and LR's Poly Relationship) and I have used my pain from the affair as a cope out for dealing with those issues. Its my comfortable defense to run away and move out when I dont WANT to deal with those insecurities.

I think that LR's point is valid. Each circumstance/relationship warrants unique speeds of change and growth.I dont think its possible to say, absolutly, that you should go at the speed of the slowest person and I dont think that you can say you should go at what ever pace you want.

The real question , as I see it, is how much work and effort and understanding are you willing to put in to the relationship in order to give to eachothers needs? Are you willing to go at any speed that is needed, in either direction?

Just my two cents.

M
 
I think it's probably different in every relationship because how each of us entered this lifestyle is different.

For me it very much was a feeling that Karma and I were heading into a 2 mile hike together and then someone threw me in the back of that van and dropped my ass off with limited supplies and said "here ya go survive".

Karma showed up somewhere on the path and offered help, but neither of us knew what kind of help I needed. So we were both wondering how to progress.

For us it was easiest to go at my pace. And as I do with everything. I pushed myself to far to fast and had to stop for awhile.

That was hard on Karma. His options were- leave Cricket, ignore my wishes, plow ahead and start seeing her behind my back again, ignore my wishes plow ahead and hurt me even more, or be patient and try to go at my pace, even when it seemed that I wasn't going anywhere.

I think it is the responsibility of the "slowest" member to stay in contact with the "leader".

There were times when Karma and I would fight because I told him to go ahead with something and I was hurt by it. I knew it would hurt, but I needed it to happen. Sometimes the only way to make progress is to go through that pain.

But it was up to me to communicate that. " It will hurt me, but it needs to happen. I need to face it."

Karma, in a fit of frustration, asked me one night many months ago, if he should just walk away from Cricket to make this easier for me.

Of course not! Why should he walk away from love when all I am asking for is patience?

We're still struggling. But we're much further ahead than we were, because he did go at my pace. And I did take responsibilty for my own forward movement.

I think the difference being, is as much as I was not okay with how we entered poly, I wasn't against it. I was just caught way off guard and felt blindsided. I needed time to heal, time to adjust, time to figure out how to move forward. And then I did.
 
These are all great liknesses. I'll make one soon when I have more time.
 
I feel that if you already have a SIGNIFICANT relationship established ( especially one that directly effects the well being of children) and you decide that you need to be Poly ( or any number of different alernative lifestyles) you should be OPEN to slowing down to the speed of the other partner. If your intent is to maintain that first relationship.

That is not to say that I feel that the slowest person should not put in the work and effort to "move forward". I have and do put in the work and effort to move things forward. If someone was to look back over the last few years, the changes would seem very significant. I think we ALL have a hard time seeing the extent of the change and growth that has ACTUALLY happened. We tend to look at what hasnt changed or what we dont have yet and dont spend as much energy looking at what has changed and what we do have. We look at a single set back as an eraser that removes all the progress. That, to me is as bad as purposfully dragging your feet in order to pretend or hope that things change.

Hello - I have been "lurking" on here recently but wasn't ready to come back and start posting. However, this thread and especially Maca's post today really hit a chord with me because it is exactly what I'm experiencing right now with my husband, 2rings. I have made some significant changes and improvements over the last few months. But I'll eventually elaborate on my blog.

2rings and I had some miscommunication and misunderstanding on Saturday morning that really had nothing to do with poly. We went from things being great, feeling optimistic and appreciative of each other to fighting, screaming, throwing things and talking about divorce in a matter of hours. In his mind, that fight (which escalated out of my frustration towards him because he immediately assumed I was losing control when I wasn't) has completely erased any of the huge progress I've made in regards to poly. That hurts because I know it's not true. But it makes me frustrated and angry that he can't see how far I've come and that things between MG and I are still good and moving forward.*

So Maca - I know how you feel. It's hurtful when we've put in time and work to accept and embrace our poly loves and one fight or misunderstanding erases all of the progress that we know we've made. In a matter of 24 hours we took 2 steps forward and 20 steps back. For me, it's been important to remind myself of the progress I've made and to not let his assumption cast a shadow over that progress. I know how I feel. I know I've come a long way. I know I'm not the same Kat that I was 2 months ago. That's what's important. I may not be moving as fast as 2rings and MG would want - but I AM moving forward.

Maca - keep working, keep self-analyzing and keep moving forward.

:) Kat (slinks back into the shadows . . . )
 
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We have been talking about pacing on the FB group I admin... I thought I would add this bit in here that someone wrote as I found it interesting and perhaps useful.

"I was thinking about this question some more and about how we've been phrasing it ("going at the pace of", "processing speeds") as if it were a progression towards an end point or goal. It's easy to view our lives this way, but I started thinking, What if I thought about it in a non-linear, non-goal oriented way? Suddenly, my buddhist learning kicked in, and I realized the common experience of all parties in this situation is an experience of suffering, either because of not getting what we might want, or because of fear of losing something we have, or out of guilt over causing pain to a loved one. In a situation where anyone is suffering, the immediate response of caring people is to ask, how do I relieve this suffering, if I can?

I like to start this process internally, by questioning why I want something so badly, or why I'm afraid of loss. I like to remind myself that guilt is the way we keep ourselves in the loop of suffering because many of us have been taught that guilt is virtuous, or because we've been convinced it's normal, familiar and serves a purpose other than making suffering worse for everyone.

After looking at my own suffering and hopefully feeling a bit more in control, if not quite a bit better, I can turn my attention to my loved ones, and ask what I can do to relieve their suffering. Listening more closely to their description of what they feel and why is a good start. Perhaps I can offer to help make changes that will put them more at ease, or at the very least I can remind them about the nasty guilt loop that they, too, should avoid. Sometimes I might not be able to do anything BUT listen; who knows, though, how much my demonstration of sincere caring might comfort and strengthen another person?

Looking at life as a continuous cycle of attachment, suffering, and returning to awareness is a viewpoint that brings me a lot less anxiety and pressure than the desire to "get towards a goal". While we may see time and even our lives as linear, our emotions are definitely NOT, cycling back upon each other again and again until we bring focus, compassion and awareness to the fears and desires that cause us to suffer.

I'm not advocating "slowing down" but rather, opening up to the world of our feelings in a way that acknowledges ALL of them in a situation before committing an action."
 
"You can lead a Frenchman to water but you can't make him wash"

(old English proverb) :D
 
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