Greetings from TN

learninginTN

New member
Hello, all. I am a newbie to this lifestyle, although I have lurked in these forums for years. Here's my history.

My wife and I married 15 years ago. A few years after our marriage we started playing around with a couple that my wife had been friends with since High School. She had actually had a few sexual encounters with the husband during high school/college. We all hit it off really well, and eventually we starting separate room swapping. We would do a lot of FMF threesomes. Occassionally we would do same room play. We did this for about 3 years. Then our kids were born and we stopped this play.

A few years after our kids were born my wife had an affair. This hit me really hard, because it was so out of the blue. I confronted her about it and she lied and covered up as much as she could until I had definitive evidence. Then she was very remorseful and agreed to marriage counselling. We did this for about a year and gradually got over this and life resumed.

About a year ago we both decided we missed the kind of play we did with that first couple, and we joined a swinging website and started exploring the swinging lifestyle. We had some great times with a few couples. Eventually my wife mentioned that she missed a lot of the separate room play we used to do, but that is not very prevalent in the swinging community, so we decided to open our marriage. She has since had at least four FWB's, and I have had one (it's much more difficult for guys to find FWB's than girls).

A few months ago she mentioned that one of her FWB's she started developing feeling for, and vice versa. He is separated, about to finanalize his divorce. I have thought about polyamory for a long time. I could see myself loving another woman, if I found the right woman.

Right now I'm dealing with wife's NRE, which includes seeing him a couple times a week and almost non-stop texting. I'm trying to be mature about it, but this is all new to me. I'd like to think she'd deal with it well when I meet a lady I feel the same about. I haven't met the guy yet, and she's been hesitant to introduce me to him, saying she's got to find the right social environment, and that just the three of us having dinner or something would be too awkward. I don't think it would, necesarilly, but sh'es agreed to invite him to a party we're hosting in a few months.

Any advice from any of you veterans? I'm not entirely sure the best way to proceed with this lifestyle. Have I made any mistakes? Anything to look out for?
 
Personally, I like to be friends with everyone. Not that hard. You don't have to try to be bestest buds, and that's kind of odd if you don't know someone well. My advice, clarity, respect, and icommunication.

I don't truck with not knowing people, there's no excuse unless someone's just not ready to be an adult that can reason and work together. That actually weeds out a lot of potential disasters. Cooperation not competition.
 
Hi learninginTN,
Welcome to our forum.

I agree with you that it's important for you to get a chance to meet your wife's new boyfriend. I am glad she has agreed to a time and place where it will happen. Hopefully you and this other guy can get together (presumably on a platonic level) more often after that initial meet-up at the party.

I think it will take some time to establish the kind of poly life you really want, so exercise patience. Communicate a lot (and practice getting better at communicating).

Ask your wife for extra time with just you and her if you need it. Often when people get caught up into NRE, they don't even notice how it's affecting their pre-existing partner.

Read many threads here, and post many thoughts and questions as they come to you. At the moment, you seem to be proceeding in a pretty sound way.

Glad you're aboard,
Kevin T.
 
Well, now things have taken an ugly turn, and I really need some good advice from the veterans. After we got back from our cruise, my wife immediately asked to spend two straight nights with guy, which I reluctantly agreed to because she had been with me for seven straight days. My attempts to have sex with her have been rebuffed, with her telling me she doesn't "feel it" with me right now. I told her it's not right to have sex with a guy she's known for a few months and not her husband of fifteen years. She says we need to work on some things, and I suggest marital counselling, to which she reluctantly agrees. Then I suggest we stop this polyamory and open-marriage stuff until we get our own problems resolved, which I undertand is almost a necessity in this type of things, and she refuses to stop.

Now she had decided to start sleeping in our guest room, because she doesn't want to "send me the wrong signals".

How to best proceed? I want to salvage our marriage, not just for my sake but for the sake of our two young daughters.
 
You need a poly friendly counselor stat, brother. Because right now you threatened her inadvertantly by wanting to stop the poly (aka end her other relationship). I know your intentions are good, but her opinion of what you suggest will be colored. Don't let it offend you. If you really want to save it, compromise....you'll agree not to shut her down if she agrees to see q counselor with you and work on realizing that her feelings are not competative....you don't have to be in the doghouse because she likes this guy and is having sex with him. But, if there's something wrong, she can't just ignore you and hope it goes away by running off to the NRE fantasy land. You're adult, you have to be able to do both, and its not easy.

Go to a counselor, talk. Make sure she knows you are worried about you two....its got nothing to do with guy. But it does hurt when it feels like she's not addressing her responsibility to your relationship

Talk
Counselor
Compromise
Appologize (she may feel threatened by needing a counselor)
I hope she decides to work as hard as you seem to be. That's what it takes sometimes.

Good luck brother.
 
The thoughts/advice paradigm imparted are good; pay heed to them. There is merit in the idea of putting the poly relationships on hold in order to work on the original relationship, but, it's also hard to put any (even a poly) relationship into reverse; it's much easier to keep it moving forward. So, sympathize somewhat with your wife and shoot for a compromise. Maybe she could just slow things down while you and she work on your relationship.

It's really rough to have your sex life put on hold, especially if it's not on hold with the other guy. How long has this been going on, that your advances have been rebuffed? It sounds to me like she has some kind of deep-seated issue or resentment that is blocking her feelings toward you. A good poly-friendly counselor is definitely needed. It's good that she agreed to that, even if it was with reluctance.

You should sit down with her and share your feelings, such as how you feel about not being able to sleep with her, and again, try to work out a compromise. Remember, when you talk to her, you must be careful not to infer any guilt or accusations, lest she tighten up like a defensive fist. There is something going on with her that hasn't been spoken yet. We're just seeing the symptoms.

Sorry you are going through with this. Sometimes poly takes the lid off of problems that would have otherwise remained forever hidden. There is a chance you and she can grow closer, if you approach the problem carefully.

Please keep us updated on how things are going.
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks for all your help. We've arranged to do counselling with a poly-friendly counsellor. This person is far away, though, so we'll have to do it via Skype. Which I think is fine. We live in pretty small, conservative area.

My wife's behavior began to change a lot five years ago after our girls were born. She would get stressed out to the max all the time, and began to take meds for depression. She is also somewhat Bi-Polar, and took some meds for that, too. She would often scream and slam doors, and would continue to occassionally spank even though she knows my objection to corporal punishment. She would occassionally curse, too, in front of the children, and on really bad days would say things like "Being dead has got to be better than this", and "When you girls whine it makes me want to stab my eyes out!". She would often scream at the girls right in their faces.

After she had her affair in late 2010 we attended counselling. Over the course of a year things got much better. The primary things I objected to about the affair were not the sex, but the deception. She hid the emails, texts, etc. from me until I stumbled upon them, and even then she increased her deceptive methods until I was able to I was able to do enough detective work to find out. Only then did she fess up and agree to counselling.

About a year or so ago she was the one who suggested trying swinging. After our previous experience with that couple she had known since high school (a very positive experience that ended when our girls were born), I was actually excited about the prospect of trying it again, this time a little more formally by joining a popular swinging web site. We had a few encounters, one of which didn't go anywhere, and another that worked out pretty well. Usually, as is the case in the swinging community, we did same-room swapping. One particular couple also enjoyed separate room swapping, so we did some of that with them. Eventually my wife decided she didn't much care for the same-room play, only the separate room play, saying she just felt uncomfortable being watched. We talked about this for a while and decided instead of being swingers to open our marriage to take on friends with benefits.

This worked out a good bit better for her, as it is about ten times easier for women to find FWB's than it is for men. She had about four FWB's, and then one in particular she started seeing much more regularly (about twice per week). She then admitted she had started developing feelings for this guy. The non-stop texts between them continue even now. That's when we started discussing the idea of polyamory. I agreed to try, even though I don't currently have a partner (although I could see myself falling in love with another).

The last few weeks she has been getting colder and angrier. In addition to not wanting to have sex with me, and moving into the guest room, she has talked incessantly about how she "doesn't feel the same towards me", and talked about wanting to take a vacation with this other guy, and not wanting to take vacations alone with me. She says she wants me to talk about my feelings, but that usually ends up with her yelling and cursing at me. When I questioned her about wanting to go see him at 2:00am on New Years night after we had been out partying with other friends, she got really angry and talked about how she can do what she wants when she wants. When I remind her that she is treating this new guy a LOT better than her husband of 15 years and father of her children, she says things like "Our marriage is only on paper! Get used to it!", totally ignoring how our marriage is a commitment she made and the 15 years of mostly good times we've had.

I feel her relationship with this guy is clouding her judgment and is leading to a lot of this "re-writing of history". Complicating things are the fact that she earns a LOT more than me ($175,000 vs. $50,000), and the fact that two years ago she got bariatric surgery to lose weight, and now she's thin and I'm not. She also got a breast augmentation (that turned out great, BTW, not very fake looking like a lot of those out there). I almost feel like I've been used during those tough years of the children, enduring the night-time wakings and diaper changes and tantrums, and those lean years when she was going to grad school when we got by on only my income. I loved her through all that, even when she weighed more than me. I sort of feel like now that she's "new and improved", she's tossing me aside for a better model.

I'm sorry for the rant. But I think it's been therpeutic.
 
The last few weeks I've been using the 180, from Michele W. Davis's "Divorce Busting" book or website. And I've noticed a change. My wife is less angry, she's starting to be more polite to me, and she's even said "I love you" a couple of times on the phone. She's still staying in the guest bedroom, but she's finally agreed to let me meet her new partner, and (to her chagrin), he has asked to meet with me alone, because he thinks our discussion will be free and more frank than if she were there. Which is very possible.

I'm going to the gym now, losing weight, taking Ballroom dance lessons, and being more proactive in trying to find dates.
 
Wow, that's great to hear. Sorry I missed your earlier (#7) post; I don't know how that happened. Sometimes important posts slip through the cracks around here, so it is wise to "ping" your threads. :)

You've certainly endured a lot over the years, and have worked hard to maintain a positive attitude. Perhaps she is developing a bit better of an attitude too. NRE can blind people sometimes.

Thank you for your updates. Please continue to let us know how things are going.
 
Not much has changed since my last post. We decided to take marriage counselling from a counsellor in California via Skype who not only has had a lot of experience counselling poly folks, he's also been a poly person himself. I hope it helps. I'm getting awfully frustrated with W spending so much time with her guy, yet sleeping in the guest room and not having sex with me at all.

On the dating front, I had a blind date with a lady on Friday night, but it turns out she's cheating on her husband, and was unattractive to boot. I don't want to involve myself in that kind of thing. I think in the future I'll make sure I've at least seen a photo of the person before agreeing to a date. That way I don't waste the time of either of us.

Currently using SLS, match.com, OKCupid, and AdultFriendFinder.
 
W has moved back into the bedroom. That's a good sign. I'm meeting her guy tomorrow night, and I have some questions for you veterans. Should I mention her affair back in 2010? She hasn't told him about that. Also, should I bring up her bi-polar and depression issues? Again, he doesn't know about that. I suspect we'll spend a lot of time talking ground rules and discussing ways to keep this relationship out of the public eye, and keep it unknown to most of our friends and family, most of whom would never understand or approve.

The other night, W went to spend some time with her guy, and said she'd see me in a little while. She ended up not getting home at all, saying she overslept, and had to go straight to work. During the night, one of my girls came into our bedroom because of a bad dream, and noticed Mommy wasn't in bed. I lied and told her Mommy was in the bathroom. I don't like having to lie, but I'm not ready to tell our 5 year-old girls about this new relationship. I feel they need stability and routine in their lives, and I don't want them thinking Mommy and Daddy might break up. Maybe in a few years, if this relationship is still going on, I might tell them about it.

What do you guys think?
 
Re:
"I'm meeting her guy tomorrow night, and I have some questions for you veterans. Should I mention her affair back in 2010?"

That's a tough call. I would probably not mention it, unless:

a) you think she might do it again,
b) it directly comes up in the conversation.

Re:
"Also, should I bring up her bi-polar and depression issues?"

That's a 50/50 call. It probably wouldn't hurt to bring it up, but who knows, he may have guessed it already (given the amount of time he's spent with her).

Re:
"I don't like having to lie, but I'm not ready to tell our 5 year-old girls about this new relationship. I feel they need stability and routine in their lives, and I don't want them thinking Mommy and Daddy might break up. Maybe in a few years, if this relationship is still going on, I might tell them about it."

I guess it would be helpful to find out (first) whether you and W are going to be staying together. If you are, then it might be fine to tell the kids about the poly thing. The one big caution I usually give about kids is, sometimes they're pretty good at figuring things out on their own, without being told by their parents.

Glad to hear W has at least moved back into the bedroom. Keep us posted.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks for the input. I always appreciate getting advice from those that have been in the trenches, so to speak.

W and I are currently researching some poly-friendly counsellors. I am going to work hard at getting the spark back into our relationship. I think we have some issues that most couples have at some point that we can work on. Plus, I think the NRE will soon diminish and W will start putting a little more energy back in our relationship.
 
Sounds like a good plan. Just remember, NRE is unpredictable, you never know how long it will take to "wear off." But W should be working on her relationship with you anyway.
 
One more quick question: When I meet this guy tonight, should I tell him that W and I are not having sex, or should I leave that for W and me to work on? I feel the NRE between them is at least partially responsible for that, but should I mention it at all? I don't want to seem controlling, but at the same time I don't want him to think I'm perfectly fine with the status quo, because at this time my own physical and emotional needs are not being met.

Well, actually one more question: This guy's divorce is almost final, although I've heard his W is dragging her feet lately getting some things done about that. Should I talk to him about that, or should I leave that alone? I keep wondering if his feelings toward my wife will change once he's single, as opposed to still married and worried about the appearance of his relationship with my W while he's still working on things like custody of his 15 year-old and division of assets.
 
I'm meeting her guy tomorrow night, and I have some questions for you veterans. Should I mention her affair back in 2010? She hasn't told him about that. Also, should I bring up her bi-polar and depression issues? Again, he doesn't know about that.

Hmmm. Part of developing a relationship with someone (I'm talking about his and hers here) is sharing stories and intimate details of our lives. This happens over time, as subjects arise. These are parts of "her story" that they haven't gotten around to discussing yet. I would ASK her if it ok for you two to talk about them if the subject arises. The affair and your reactions to it are certainly relevant - but he is dating HER and not YOU so it might be better if this information came from her initially and THEN you and he could discuss how it shapes your current feelings about their relationship.

At one point, when a topic came up between Dude and I where one of MrS's stories would have been relevant - I felt uncomfortable because I didn't know if this was something that they (as friends) had shared yet. At this point, I had a conversation with each of them separately asking, essentially, what degree of "privacy" they each were expecting - and what my own comfort levels were.

During the night, one of my girls came into our bedroom because of a bad dream, and noticed Mommy wasn't in bed. I lied and told her Mommy was in the bathroom. I don't like having to lie, but I'm not ready to tell our 5 year-old girls about this new relationship. I feel they need stability and routine in their lives, and I don't want them thinking Mommy and Daddy might break up. Maybe in a few years, if this relationship is still going on, I might tell them about it.

What do you guys think?

I think there is a middle ground between lying (a bad idea) and telling children specific details about relationships. What's wrong with saying that Mommy is sleeping over at her friend's house? 5-year olds can understand "slumber parties" and not have it mean that a family is going to disintegrate - that is something that friends do.

JaneQ
 
Re:
"When I meet this guy tonight, should I tell him that W and I are not having sex, or should I leave that for W and me to work on? I feel the NRE between them is at least partially responsible for that, but should I mention it at all? I don't want to seem controlling, but at the same time I don't want him to think I'm perfectly fine with the status quo, because at this time my own physical and emotional needs are not being met."

I think it would be fair enough to tell him, "Not everything is great between me and my wife." But be careful about something that could be interpreted as, "I'd really rather you not be involed with my wife." Unless that's actually how you feel. Misunderstandings/misinterpretations can happen easily, especially in a we-just-met conversation.

Re:
"This guy's divorce is almost final, although I've heard his W is dragging her feet lately getting some things done about that. Should I talk to him about that, or should I leave that alone?"

That seems like something that should be brought up if it naturally comes up in the conversation. Let him make the call on what should be talked about in some areas.

Jane Q gave a lot of good advice. I'll echo that. I'll also suggest that maybe it would make it too complicated to "over-plan" the conversation you have with this guy. Let some things come up as they will, and try not to "force the topics." People have organic relationships; they can't always be fitted to a blueprint.

Good luck on your upcoming meeting with this guy.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Well, that meeting with guy went much better than expected. It was a little awkward at first, but after we had a little beer and pizza the conversation really started to flow. We talked about our histories and what we wanted from the future, and he assured me he was comfortable being in a secondary role, and had no intentions of interfering with our kids. We talked about scheduling and practical things like that, too. I told him I felt it important that W spend at least a little more time with our family, and he wholeheartedly agreed.

We talked a lot about how important it was to keep this relationship out of the public eye as much as possible, and keeping it from the girls. He's a professional (actually we all are), but we agreed that it would hurt us professionally if word got out, because especially where we live (deep in the Bible Belt), most people would frown on our activities.

His W apparently had an affair before they talked about opening their marriage, and I could tell how hurt he was. I decided not to tell him about my W's affair, because I didn't want to portray her too much in a negative light. I figure she may eventually tell him herself, and we can deal with that then. I also didn't tell him about her bi-polar issues and depression. Again, I'll let her tell him when she chooses.

We didn't really talk about the issues between W and me, except in a very vague sense, that we're working on things and things seem to be getting better. He talked a lot about his divorce, and the events leading up to that. Apparently his W instigated the open marriage, and then later decided she liked her new guy better, and they could never resolve the issue, and so they moved into divorce. He and I both recognized the possible similarities to what's going on now, and he assured me that will not happen, because he's been there and knows the pain of being relegated to second place. Ironically, now his W is dragging her feet with their divorce, and having second thoughts now that reality is setting in. Turns out for her maybe the grass wasn't necessarily greener on the other side.

So I think things are getting better. When I got home, W said she was freaking out about how things were going to go with me and him. I assured her things went well, and went on to tell her about most of the stuff we talked about.
 
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That's great news learninginTN; things sound very promising for the future. Things will come up a little at a time here and there, which seems fine.

Keep us posted as time goes on. We're pulling for you.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Had a little issue last night. W asked to go see guy last night (after getting home from work at about 8:30), which would be the third night this week (basically every other day). I didn't feel like arguing or trying to make a point, so I just agreed, even though my heart was telling me this was too much. Especially since she has spent about a total of 4 waking hours with me this week, . So she left.

Then I texted a friend of ours that knows about our lifestyle, but thinks she is being totally unreasonable with this guy. I complained about her "putting in a one-hour appearance to tuck the girls in" and then leaving. He offered me some words of comfort about how maybe the NRE would start wearing off soon. W comes home at about 4:30am, starts giving me some kisses, saying she's sorry she's been so absent this week, then picks up my phone and starts going through my texts. She sees the above exchange, then starts giving me an earful of "if you have a problem with what I'm doing, talk to me, not him", etc.

Now, this guy is the ONLY person I know in person I can talk to about such things, and it's kind of comforting to have a guy to talk to (he's in the lifestyle, too, but as a swinger only, and does not at all approve of what W is doing). But I tried to apologize, but she still left for work a little angry. I'm a little miffed that she thinks it's ok to go through my text messages, but she has the messages to her guy (and a couple of other people) carefully password protected so I can't get to them.

So I'm prepared to talk to her today about having some balance, and that I need to have my physical and emotional needs tended to, since I don't have a girlfriend yet, and am not getting this from W either. At the same time, I want to come across as a little understanding about the NRE. When her guy and I met, he supposedly understood about his secondary role and that I needed me and my girls to come first in her life.

To top it off, she now wants to go out of town this weekend with guy to see a burlesque show. This would make the fourth overnight with guy this week. I told her I would think about it. But I'm prepared to have the discussion with her about how 1) I'm a little hurt she asked him instead of me, since it's been weeks since we went anywhere alone, and 2) how I'm uncomfortable I am with the amount of time she's spent with him this week.

One of the reasons I don't often share my feelings with her is 1) I don't want to seem controlling, and 2) when I do object to something, she argues with me about the issue, coming up with excuse after excuse, and just tires me out until I agree. She never seems to want to change her behavior based on my feelings, so I've just started to give up talking to her about these things. It's as if my feelings are irrelevant, so why even bother.

Fortunately we have our first counselling session this Tuesday evening with a poly-friendly counsellor. If any of you veterans have any words of wisdom, I would appreciate it, because I'm feeling pretty glum about things now.
 
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