Insert Witty Title Here - A Story by Kyle

Oh boy, what a turnaround.

Here's hoping you guys go to counseling soon, and can get residual issues out on the table.
 
Well, it sounds like everything is getting put on the table. As painful as that is, that can be a very good thing if it allows you and your wife to work through some stuff.

I am always amazed at how many people - men, women, genderqueer - who don't mind being 'shared' but can't stand their partner(s) 'sharing' themselves with others. I realize that we can't know what tweaks us until we try it, especially something as outside the norm as poly or open marriage. But this happens over and over here - I'm fine with outside partners and you should be fine with me having outside partners but God Forbid you want outside connections. And it happens in all kinds of configurations. I just don't get it. I understand the fear and dread over possibly losing a partner - but why does that lead so many to 'you can't have any' and the resentments and pain that fosters? This is one of the times human nature just confounds me.

Anyway, Kyle, a thought from my own experience. Beaker and I got back together after our first breakup. I did forgive both of us for our actions and insecurities during our breakup. I said things I so regret that just weren't true although I thought so at the time. I also realized that Beaker did the best she could in that situation at that time. She was trying her hardest. However, I never really trusted her fully again. Deep inside I figured she would leave again. But I never openly faced this in myself and so it just festered. And you know what, she did leave. She left in large part because our connection suffered. Our connection eventually withered because I always reserved part of myself from her and was not willing to deal with that openly. Your wife needs to deal with her lack of trust in you. Maybe you can help with that, maybe not. It might be her deal rather than anything you are doing now. So it is good that she told you this - that's more than I was ever able to do.

Also, counseling is a good idea at this point. Good luck.
 
fwiw, I agree with you Kyle, I don't think you should risk it. You know her, and you know you. What I've seen you write is that she is your first, your most, all that. If she needs to re-build trust in you, you can afford the time (and the whatever else) in order to do that with her. But get to counseling stat!
 
fwiw, I agree with you Kyle, I don't think you should risk it. You know her, and you know you. What I've seen you write is that she is your first, your most, all that. If she needs to re-build trust in you, you can afford the time (and the whatever else) in order to do that with her. But get to counseling stat!

Tuesday is our first session. I just hope that we figure this out and are able to visit the open marriage again. Katie is my wife and I want to be with her forever. I just don't want to sacrifice a portion of myself in the process. I would if I had to, but it would be hard to deal with having let her do as she pleases and not being shown the same courteousy or trust. I think that is what is under my skin right now. I have been understanding and trusting and I just want to be shown the same respect. She told me today that she definitely wants to keep the open marriage, after we fix us. I'm definitely up for that. I want to fix us too!

One of her big goals is to move to California. The reason doesn't matter but from what I understand polyamory is much more accepted out there. She doesn't think we will ever go because I am deeply family oriented and my parents are a huge part of my life but I've always wanted to move away and I see no reason we can't move out there if we plan it properly and don't just move out there blind.
 
As someone who has dealt with a lot of my own trust issues (stemming from my childhood) around my husband and opening our marriage up, (unwarranted as they were) I think counseling is the perfect answer. For me, when it first came up, I had to put polyamory on pause for about 6 months, while I figured me and my shit out. I knew I wanted the open marriage, and wanted it badly enough to face my own internal demons to try and fix myself and my issues.

Throughout my processing, XIV was ever supportive, and would randomly launch discussions about my feelings, how I was feeling, how I felt about polyamory, how I felt about life and my own processing I was doing. He wasn't pushy about it, but asked just often enough to keep the discussion open. Our communication VASTLY improved in that short time period, and I now feel absolutely solid in our relationship, in a way I didn't realize I was feeling shaky.

I'm sure with time, your wife will be able to process not just her trust issues with you (however valid or invalid they may be. Mine were invalid, turns out lol) and what I'm guessing are overall trust issues in general.

One of the weirdest things I realized through my processing, was that while I was pointing the finger at XIV and saying "I don't trust you", the bigger reality was I didn't trust myself. I didn't trust myself not to leave, not to break him and I and our relationship, not to break boundaries, not to hurt him before he could hurt me... all very destructive things, obviously. Realizing that and working through them was like an "A-ha" moment for me.

Do I still occasionally have some jealousy? Some. Freak out every once in awhile? Yep. But I'm human, and I over-analyze EVERYTHING. Working through my issues allowed my relationship with my husband to develop to a whole new level. I hope, (and I think it will) do the same for you and your wife. Good luck, and keep on reading. Encourage her to read and research on this forum and other sites as well. A few of the blogs really hit home for me and helped me figure some stuff out. There was one specifically that flipped a light switch in my brain. I'm trying to remember which one it was... if I think of it, I'll respond again and let you know.
 
I found it :)

It is ImaginaryIllusion's blog, "How did I get here & Where am I going?" that had some writing that opened my entire mind about how I was approaching my trust issues with my husband and myself. If you haven't read it, I suggest you do. It is awesome.

his blog

Once again, good luck to both of you.
 
As someone who has dealt with a lot of my own trust issues (stemming from my childhood) around my husband and opening our marriage up, (unwarranted as they were) I think counseling is the perfect answer. For me, when it first came up, I had to put polyamory on pause for about 6 months, while I figured me and my shit out. I knew I wanted the open marriage, and wanted it badly enough to face my own internal demons to try and fix myself and my issues.

Throughout my processing, XIV was ever supportive, and would randomly launch discussions about my feelings, how I was feeling, how I felt about polyamory, how I felt about life and my own processing I was doing. He wasn't pushy about it, but asked just often enough to keep the discussion open. Our communication VASTLY improved in that short time period, and I now feel absolutely solid in our relationship, in a way I didn't realize I was feeling shaky.

I'm sure with time, your wife will be able to process not just her trust issues with you (however valid or invalid they may be. Mine were invalid, turns out lol) and what I'm guessing are overall trust issues in general.

One of the weirdest things I realized through my processing, was that while I was pointing the finger at XIV and saying "I don't trust you", the bigger reality was I didn't trust myself. I didn't trust myself not to leave, not to break him and I and our relationship, not to break boundaries, not to hurt him before he could hurt me... all very destructive things, obviously. Realizing that and working through them was like an "A-ha" moment for me.

Do I still occasionally have some jealousy? Some. Freak out every once in awhile? Yep. But I'm human, and I over-analyze EVERYTHING. Working through my issues allowed my relationship with my husband to develop to a whole new level. I hope, (and I think it will) do the same for you and your wife. Good luck, and keep on reading. Encourage her to read and research on this forum and other sites as well. A few of the blogs really hit home for me and helped me figure some stuff out. There was one specifically that flipped a light switch in my brain. I'm trying to remember which one it was... if I think of it, I'll respond again and let you know.

It's like you're my wife, from the future. Time travel is dangerous! She has some serious trust issues and I have always kind of seen that but I took it personally when I found out it encompassed me as well. Your post reminded me that it's not just me. She doesn't trust anyone. On top of that she's always afraid she's going to hurt me. She hardly ever has the desire to tell me what's bothering her because she's afraid of hurting me or making me angry or anything. The rich part is that because it takes me so long to get her to talk to me I usually am frustrated by the time we talk. I tell her all the time to just tell me instead of leaving me in the dark.

I wish I could get her on here but she doesn't have any interest in it. I've asked her several times and even told her she could read my experiences about the week of LA and this blog but she has no desire to do that. The biggest problem I see us facing is that no counselors in this area seem to accept polyamory. There are several in Chicago but that is too far away.

I bought the love dare and the ethical slut two days ago. The B&N lady looked at me like I was nuts. I'm going to go through the love dare to strengthen our marriage since its been recommended to me by just about everyone I know and Katie saw fireproof and was like "Jesus that movie is us". Once we are Doug better I will show her the ethical slut. She loves books about topics she's interested in and since all of you have recommended it I figure why not. She's reading Dharma Punx right now because she's interested in Buddhism and the guy that wrote it is very "punk" which both her and I relate to.

I just need to be more understanding and take things less personally. I know it's not all me. I know she has family of origin issues. I know her. And yet for some reason I still get mad. Stupid temper. Well, that's one of the things the love dare is supposed to help with!
 
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Tuesday - Day of Reckoning

We saw the counselor for the first time today. They are so damn expensive. It was money well spent, though, because it was a very, very good experience and very helpful. I felt very at ease talking to her and so did Katie.

I'm not going to delve into it further because it's personal but suffice to say it is proving to be helpful already.
 
Awesome news, Kyle!

Have you looked into sliding scale therapy? Sometimes even your physicians are willing to further help if they have a psychiatrist/psychologist/counselor friend.
 
Awesome news, Kyle!

Have you looked into sliding scale therapy? Sometimes even your physicians are willing to further help if they have a psychiatrist/psychologist/counselor friend.

We don't have health insurance, so it's all out of pocket. The counselor cut her cost down some for us because of that, and she's working with us, but most sliding scale therapists in this town are also Christians. Not a big deal to me, but my wife is losing her faith in Christianity and taking an interest in Buddhism... and given our poly interests, she feels that she would be "judged". Perception is all it takes to not trust your counselor, and we really like this counselor, so the cost will have to be dealt with.
 
Understandable - Some things you just have to eat the cost. Take care of yourselves; you're both in my thoughts.
 
It is tax deductible if you have enough medical expenses that qualify. Probably the only thing that allowed us to go as long as we did. Good luck!
 
Kyle, curious about your reaction to Love Dare, since I noticed you mentioned it in other threads as well. How relevant/useful might it be for someone in multiple relationships? Eg could you go through the process with one partner without feeling that it was hurting the relationship with the other partner? Could you do it with two partners simultaneously, trying to meet each day's goals wrt both partners?
 
Kyle, curious about your reaction to Love Dare, since I noticed you mentioned it in other threads as well. How relevant/useful might it be for someone in multiple relationships? Eg could you go through the process with one partner without feeling that it was hurting the relationship with the other partner? Could you do it with two partners simultaneously, trying to meet each day's goals wrt both partners?

I haven't finished it yet so I don't know if there is anything that would get in the way but as far as I can tell it is basically a book that tells you to re-evaluate yourself and your behavior and focus more on being selfless and being good to the other person.

Day one is being patient, day two is being nice, day three is being unexpectedly kind, and so on. It's really about showing the other person how much they mean to you. It really works. Katie told me how she can tell I'm really trying to fix us. Between that and our first day at counseling her attitude about us has changed dramatically. She is saying things she hasn't said to me in a long time. So yeah, I definitely recommend it, even if you aren't having problems.

You absolutely have to take it seriously though. If you flake out or only do each day half way it won't work. All day. Every day. Don't forget or opt out
 
Sunday - Perspective Sight

Sometimes all it takes is a well placed catastrophe to make you realize what you have.

It's been well over a month since the last time I posted. Last time I made mention of going to a counselor. We went a second time and both Katie and I felt as though the second session was less beneficial. Looking back, I think it had a lot to do with the counselor struggling to help us. Despite our mutual frustrations, we weren't yet to the point where we hated one another or wanted out for good. We were forced to cancel our next session by unrelated events and chose not to reschedule. We have had a few bad fights since but nothing like before and I have very seriously attempted to right any wrongs before the fight ended so as to squash any hard feelings. We've been doing very well and Katie has, on several occassions, professed that she's glad I put up with her unhappiness and that she is happy now and things are better. She's more readily considering true polyamory and not that crap she had with LA. Neither of us have hard feelings regarding him but it's just not what it was supposed to be. B didn't work out (he just wanted sex, she called it off long before it went anywhere). She's talking to J (have I mentioned him before?) on a very regular basis now and our talks on the subject have progressed much further. Looking back, I let her do her thing with LA because I felt like it was necessary she have her freedom but all the warning signs were there and I should have said something. I feel much more comfortable with J as a candidate for her attention.

On to me. I'm still talking to A. Less than I'd like, but I find it hard to come up with topics like I did before. I had been overwhelmingly busy at work and while I love my job I just don't have the freedom I used to in my old area. I want to go visit her, but I feel like my wife isn't ready for that. I think she would handle it fine but I know how she is and I would prefer she have someone she can spend time with while I'm gone for a weekend or so. I would like someone closer (in addition to Katie and A, not instead of A) that I could go hang out with when Katie needs her space. I understand that means I have to watch my time more closely but I think I could handle it. Katie has mentioned having community living a couple of times. I think it has to do with reading Anita Blake and watching Sister Wives but I still understand her position and I agree. I just wish this damn state had some market availability.

On to the catastrophe. Katie lost her wedding set (engagement, wedding, and the ring I talked about in March). Yeah. It may have been stolen. We don't know. But two of them were heirlooms and are not replaceable by insurance. It devestated her. I think that was really when she started realizing her appreciation for me. She was coming around before then but when that happened she really clung to me. I feel guilty for being happy about it, since it brought us closer.

Catastrophe number 2: One of my good friends informed me of something terrible that happened with his family. Compared to that guy, I live in whimsy shire, without the killing (google it). Sometimes, it really does take something big to see what you need and what you want. Unfortunately, by then it's usually already lost.
 
HI Kyle,

I'm glad you posted and that things are going relatively well for you. I'd been thinking of you, and wondering how it was going. :)
 
Thanks Rain! Things are going well. Everything takes patience and work, but it gets easier every day. Hopefully, I'll have more to post here soon.
 
Thursday - Frustration Aplenty

Today was a long day. Long day at work. Long day home with the kids. Long day with my family at my brother's birthday party. Long day after we got home. Long day fighting with my computer that wants to die again. So much more. It's been a long damn day. I'm ready for it to end.

Why is it that when you message someone who says they're open to polyamory and actually try to pose meaningful conversation and show that you've looked at their profile they ignore you? What are you looking for that you won't even give me the time of day? I didn't mention your looks or sex or anything. I just tried to make conversation. Stop putting shit like "Message me if you'd like to get to know me, or for any reason" and then not respond. Blah.

I even had another girl message me back once and then stop... AFTER she asked me what else I wanted to know. Fuck, people. I don't know what you want from me. I'm decent looking, I'm nice, I'm silly, I'm cool. What are you looking for? Why isn't it in your profile?

I'm getting really tired of this. It's frustrating.
 
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