Phy's story - As you like it

Catching up on the latest developements

I noticed that there are many topics we discussed or things that just happened which I never got the time to mention up to now. I will try to catch up on that.

Worrying:
First of all: Success! I was able to not think any further than the directly given answer I received after asking if everything was OK. *cheers herself on* Yeay :D I went on a walk with Sward and noticed that he has been feeling a bit off the evening before (he was cuddly) and asked if something was on his mind. He said “No, everything is alright.” And I didn't gave in to asking if that was really what he wanted to tell me. *looks proud* I am getting better with this stuff.

Pictures:
And as well in regard to the topics of the latest posts: I uploaded some pictures to spare me the effort to do any more personal description in vain … :rolleyes: When I was done answering to Carma they both asked me what I was skipping back and forth the net for (too many words I had to look up actually to write even three sentences fluently :p). both shook their heads and suggested I should just upload some pics, that would be much easier. So true. So, we are now saying 'Hi' officially with some faces coming along with the names you already know.

Bed:
Lin's bed was getting on our nerves since the day he bought it. The head piece had some loose pieces of metal in it and it clanged, rattled and creaked a bit every time we moved. Lin and Sward fixed it by welding the pieces. Finally peace at night :)

Tenancy changeover:
In regard to our plans to add some patter of tiny feet to our everyday life in the upcoming years, we talked about how much sense it would make to renovate our flat now. How long we are going to use it and when we would have to move out because of the lack of space. There would be a nearly perfect apartment right above us btw :) But we decided that we could live in this flat for the next three years and therefore made concrete plans how the first steps for the redecoration and refurbishment. But those plans were delayed by all of us getting ill …

Illness:
I was the first to catch an inflammation of the throat. It got worse and I got the flue. With slight symptoms of stomach flu. Sward was the second one to fall ill. He was the first one to feel better as well. But then it hit Lin. He has quite a delicate condition and though he just got a common cold, it took him up to today to get better. He has had fever till yesterday. I was really worried because to my mind any illness he catches can mean trouble. He hates that I am this worried during that times, but I can hardly stop. If his condition would worsen ever, he could simply die. I can't get something like that off my mind in those moments.

Frustration:
This point went hand in hand with the health problems. Yesterday evening would have been a night I was going to spend with Lin. But he was so weak and tired that he went to bed early. I asked him if he would like to sleep alone or if I should come over later. He said it would be the same to him. I was a bit upset by this answer. Why no clear answer if he wanted to have company or not? And why this indifference? Displease frowning, take one. I asked again, pointing out that I would love to hear a personal opinion on the theme. Answer: “Well, yes of course you can come over and stay with me tonight. But I will sleep early and I am sweaty and so on.” Still no personal utterance if he wants/needs me with him. Very impatiently frowning on my part. “I want to know if you WANT me to be there!” 'Why is she getting so worked up' is written all over his face while he said “But of course I want you to spend the night with me, why shouldn't I?” Sigh …

The difference between Lin and me is that I need someone to be there to comfort me when I am ill. (I think I wrote about that already.) He has been ill most of his life, he is used to handle this by himself. I completely misinterpreted his self-dependence as a sign of indifference. While all he had on his mind were practical aspects for my benefit. Lastly I stayed with Sward that evening but I recognized how frustrated I got. It was the second night in row where I couldn't sleep next to Lin and he has slept most of the days as well. I was missing him and I noticed that I got egoistical as well. He needed a good night's rest to get well again and all I was able to think about was that I wanted to snuggle. When I realized my problem, I got even more frustrated … Sometimes I really don't like my neediness and demanding character. :(

I will cover the other points the next time I am able to write more, I am still not done with the my list ^.^
 
When Lin is feeling better, you might want to have a discussion about his needs when he is sick. Me, I don't want anyone around me, except to bring me the necessities (so in the next room is OK). I get anxious and can't rest completely if they are trying to cuddle me, but then I feel guilty and don't want to tell them to go away, so I put up with it.
 
Sorry you've been ill. Also, I was wondering if you've thought of why you got so frustrated with Lin when he didn't tell you whether he wanted you to spend the night with him or not? I see that you didn't offer your own opinion about it either, though you then missed him. I don't think you should beat yourself up and think you're too needy, but ask for something to get your need of closeness met. He may not be able to give it if he doesn't feel like it, but you won't get it if you don't ask. (If only I would learn to take my own advice... I guess it's a process.)

Nice to see some pictures of you. All three of you are so hot.. I mean pretty. :p
 
I was too tired to keep on writing, therefore the lack of further explanations. But you are good in catching up on your own as it seems :)

Me, I don't want anyone around me, except to bring me the necessities (so in the next room is OK). I get anxious and can't rest completely if they are trying to cuddle me, but then I feel guilty and don't want to tell them to go away, so I put up with it.

If you leave the anxiety part out, this pretty much covers Lin's reasoning. He didn't know how to respond, balancing the options 1. being alone and rest (what he wanted) and 2. being with me and spend some time together (what mainly I wanted). Lin is a thoughtful and considerate guy, he would think about what I want and need even in such a situation when he feels completely like he has been through the wringer and uncomfortable because of his illness.

I was wondering if you've thought of why you got so frustrated with Lin when he didn't tell you whether he wanted you to spend the night with him or not? I see that you didn't offer your own opinion about it either, though you then missed him.

I got frustrated because I felt disconnected, wanted to share some intimate moments, was prevented from doing it by his illness and got no clear signal how he was thinking about the matter (meaning: more disconnecting going on in that moment). When I noticed that it was all mainly about my needs without considering Lin's, I got upset with myself because I didn't like how my in a way egocentrical behavior impinged on Lin. He wanted to make room for my needs even though he would have been in the position to have his considered as top priority.

I don't think you should beat yourself up and think you're too needy, but ask for something to get your need of closeness met. He may not be able to give it if he doesn't feel like it, but you won't get it if you don't ask.

I am the dominant one in our relationship(s) and I always asked for something. Someone made a comment on how negative it could be, if there is more than one alpha male in such a relationship structure … well, we haven't got alpha males, we have me :) Sward and Lin are both personalities that want to please, care a lot about my wishes and consent to my opinion when decisions have to be made. Not in a D/s kind of way or something like that, I just tend to have the upper hand and manage to have my needs met primarily.

Because of this underlying dynamic I was upset about myself when I tried to push the buttons in a situation where I was doing some kind of harm to Lin. He needed his rest, I wanted to be with him, he knew what I wanted and started considering it despite looking out for himself. If you now add that I can be a mule at times and love to try to get my way you understand why this worried me and I became mad with myself.

(If only I would learn to take my own advice... I guess it's a process.)

Similarities over and over again, just what I said concerning the advice I gave to you. I haven't put all of it into practice as well ^.^'

Nice to see some pictures of you. All three of you are so hot.. I mean pretty. :p

Hrhr :eek: Thanks a lot for the compliment.
 
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My family

Well, let's continue with some of the rest that has been on my mind lately.

I have been shopping with my soon to be brother-in-law because we have drawn each other to be each other's secret Santa. And I wanted a new pair of trousers and some pullovers. Therefore he had to go shopping with me. During the day he directed the conversation on the topic of Sward, Lin and me and what all fo this was planned to be in the future. His first question was: “What about when you are going to have children? Do you plan on 'keeping' Lin around then as well?” I said that that's what we planned to do and that Lin was meant to be the godfather and so on. Those were our plans when we came across the topic some years ago when we (Sward and I) first discussed the possibility of having children. He went on about his thoughts of our situation and that it had stirred some hustle and bustle when we told my family of Lin's moving in and the neighborhood as well. Of course I was quite curious to finally hear about the reactions of those around us and I kept on carefully interrogating him while we had lunch.

That's what he told me: My sister was furious and disturbed when she heard the news. She needs certainty and routine in her everyday life and she has a strong sense of family. Her alarm bells went off when she heard that another man was about to move in with us. Was everything alright with Sward and me? What would happen if I was about to replace him with Lin? Why was he tolerating me doing something like that and moving the new man in of all things? To give a little more insight into the impact this would have caused for most of the people near to us: They all really like Sward. Really, really … Sometimes I am not even sure if my mother would stick to me if we were to separate -.-' It appeared to be a great threat to have a new person in the picture that none really knew. If we come clear about our relationship status, this will be a huge obstacle Lin has to face. They all think highly of Sward.

Therefore, her first reaction to this was going enrage and consult our mother. But, to my surprise, my mother told her to leave it be and let us do what we see fit. That it wasn't their place to meddle in our affairs. This enraged her even more and she went to see her soon-to-be husband. But he told her the same. He explained to me, that he had always thought that I was just different. That he fully believes in me doing what I want and how I think things should be. 'Regardless of the consequences?' I skipped in at that point. 'No, I know that you would always look out for everyone to be happy with the given situation. But you are just how and who you are. It wouldn't surprise me if you three got a ménage à trois going on.' I could hardly refrain myself from patting him on the back with appreciation. He was totally cool with the thought. But as we had agreed on not bringing up this topic before Christmas, I just said thanks for his good opinion of me.

But, in regard to my sister, all this was just a gut reaction. We felt some of it during the first visit of Lin and during the first weeks after the moving in. She gave him the cold shoulder and picked on every little thing that she found unacceptable in his behavior. This matter is pretty much settled already. She adjusted to our new living situation and is alright with Lin being there (even gossiping about a former friend when he was there and lend her an ear :rolleyes:). Most of this positive development is due to Sward being visibly OK with the things that are going on and the rest of my family not panicking about it.

My brother is totally unaffected by all that is going on, but I didn't expect anything else. He is a very solitary person and never gets involved in the matters of others too much. He is a student as I am and we tend to see each other randomly around the campus or when we travel to university by train. I met him once in the morning, when I was in a bad mood (the quarrel with Sward and Lin some weeks ago). The first thing he asked me: “What did your two men do to upset you?” *big smile on his face* - “My men?” - “How else should I call them? Those two that foolishly decided to live with you despite they ought to have known better?” Love his humor :D

Even my father, who seems to like Lin quite a bit has said something along the lines of 'Let the kids do what they see fit.'

After all this info, I was so relieved … I was feeling like cuddling my to-be brother-in-law. I know that the real deal may cause some uproar nevertheless, but all looks quite promising at the moment.:)
 
Merry Crhistmas

Just wanted to stop by for a moment and wish you all Merry Christmas! Stay well, I hope you are having a good time. Lovely greetings from Sward, Lin and Phy ;)

And @ Annabel: There you are, Lin sandwiched between the two Germanic giants :p
 
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And @ Annabel: There you are, Lin sandwiched between the two Germanic giants :p

Wonderful! And not actually all that different from what I pictured, after you'd described everyone's coloration. :) Lovely pic.

Merry Christmas!
 
Christmas - Negativities

To sum up why I am wide awake in the middle of the night: I am restless. Again. I tend to be like this around Christmas and I really don't like it. I can't find my inner peace and it takes away the joy I normally feel in everyday life. I had to get up after falling asleep early, during a really relaxing massage Sward was giving me, because I was constantly tossing and turning, unable to stay asleep peacefully. Oh, how I hate this. It's a feeling like I forgot something, something really important and I am unable to remember what it was, but I know that it needs to be done right away. If not, something really bad will happen. If anyone knows how to counter this, feel free to tell me, I really suck at dealing with it.

But, as I am awake and don't know what to do, I decided that I can give an overview on how things went over Christmas. To follow up with an older topic (weight stuff again): the demented grandmother of Sward as well as a mutual friend of us were eager to tell me that I really put on some weight. Great, tell me something I don't know already … I mean, the grandmother doesn't recognize her own grandchildren sometimes, doesn't know who Sward's sister is, because she tends to change her hair color from time to time, but she knows exactly that I have been more slender a year ago. The mutual friend was really drunk when he told me, that he would offer himself to me if I was ever in need of another man (long story, mainly around Lin, I will come to that later) but that I should loose some weight beforehand, I looked so much better some years ago. His personal moment of glory regarding consideration and sense of tact.

But well, all this wouldn't have resonated with me so well, if I hadn't been unsatisfied already. Something positive on that front: Sward needs to do his sports rehab at a local fitness center and I decided to finally stop lamenting about the status quo and do something about it. I have a trial session on Thursday and Lin will accompany me. He needs to get active again as well and we decided to start our training now.

Up next, the incidents around Christmas. As I am really moody at the moment, I will stick to the negative ones.

I got into an argument with my father. The last one of this kind happened some years ago and I was really dumbstruck when it hit me that he was still the inflexible, grumpy and highly egocentric person I tended to not get along with during my teenage years. We don't see each other much normally and I forgot how things were back then. Got a thorough brush up on that front. And I consider myself really lucky to have the opportunity to just leave nowadays if something like this happens. It doesn't make much sense to argue with him, I know that I am able to corner him quite soon (as a matter of course, he would never confess any faults), but I didn't wanted to create too much of a tense atmosphere, because my mother would have been the one to suffer the consequences.

The other argument, or better strong discussion I faced during Christmas, was initiated by said mutual friend I already mentioned above. He is our neighbor, Sward's best buddy and groomsman and really worried about his well being and the whole why-has-another-man-moved-in-with-you-business. But he has been too afraid to ask for the truth behind it up to now. And he only did (well in fact, he was never able to voice the spot on question, he got around the problem constantly) because he was dead drunk. We came together at a birthday party of another friend on the 25th and after a bottle of whiskey he was finally able to speak up. But he was still too afraid to talk to Sward and as he considered me to be the one in charge for any decision to be made, he confronted me.

I know that he was just worried. I know that something like poly relationship structure is so far off his radar that he isn't able to consider this an option even in this situation. His worries went in the direction of 'something happening between Lin and me along the way because we get along so well'. And me leaving Sward for the new one or damaging our relationship beyond repair. And I know that a couple he and his wife were close friends with faced a major life crisis because of an really unhealthy person they got involved with in a vee. (The live-in boyfriend of the wife abused their daughter and probably their son for years. Really ugly story that I was told that evening finally and so hard to believe as I knew them briefly as well.)

And as he is unable to wrap his mind around the whole business he lumps in all the negative possibilities at once without considering the actual persons involved or the given situation at hand. Obviously, it was futile to really try to explain what we are up to at that moment, therefore I told him that he has every right in the world to worry about a friend. We know each other since I was little, a whole nother bunch of complicated feelings on that front for him to face, as he seems to be attracted to me and unable to get this notion because I have been the little girl next door who sat in the sandbox with the hands up in the air, because I was afraid to get too dirty, who later on was so tall that she was able to get over the wooden lattice fence without opening the gate. He is a man in his mid-forties but quite young at heart.

Our friends tend to be older than we are, and in this case it seems to complicate the situation. What I got out of that evening was the strong conviction that the matter will take time. Lots of time actually. The only way to convince them that everything is fine and that we are happy is by showing them. They will not listen to explanations because they are unable to understand how this could be possible. *sigh* we will see …
 
Christmas - Negativities II

Here I am, awake again …

My bad mood and disturbance was impossible to overlook. That's why Sward and Lin had a good talk about it when they went to buy sports shoes for Lin (our training starts today). Over the day I discussed with both of them, what could be possibly biting me that much. While trying to explain to them what this is about, I came across the answer.

Lin was the one to state the simple facts: I need control. And by the way, it was a great moment when he came up with that explanation, it was like it always used to be when we were still so far apart and he was able to analyze me even though we never met. I felt the same connection again and was so glad that this special part of our friendship didn't die along the way. (I don't know why I was surprised by that, I kind of anticipated this connection to get lost with our new intimate relationship.)

But whatever, he was right. All this uneasiness and restlessness boils down to me feeling like I lost control. I need to be in charge and I need security. Around Christmas I tend to breakdown the events and do a kind of achievement check. How much has changed in my life? How many 'little successes' did I achieve? Have I moved closer to the 'big goals' I want to obtain in the long rung? There is so much that I see along my way and so little behind me and saved within my reach.

I am impatient and I am greedy. I can't change the fact that the disc prolapse of Sward endangers his job and reemployment next year. I can't change the fact that Lin has a hard time finding the right field of work because of his heart condition and age. Can't change that I would love to have a stable future to raise children soon. Can't change that I feel pressured by the exams and the stuff that needs to be done around them next year. Can't change that I am still wary about our new relationship structure and that I still have a hard time feeling secure about the steadiness and permanent nature of it. Can't change that I would love to just be open about all that is going on in my life and that I have to wait and trust in time to do the work that is necessary beforehand.

All this makes me feel powerless. I can't cause any change or improvement right now and I have to wait for it to be done by others, mostly. This is so against my wish and nature. To feel better I just have to get some things done. I have to watch out that I don't start doing things for the sake of doing things obviously, but I know that I will only feel better, if I have the feeling of having achieved something. I need some little successes right now.

I envy Lin. He is able to see the simple fact that he is with me now, that we managed the whole uproar this year and are now able to be together, as such a huge positive development that all the uncertainty in the future doesn't count. Such an optimist. He told me, that even if I am not a materialist, money still makes me feel secure. I don't need fancy things but I need the knowledge of having the basic needs met in the long run. You can't live on love alone.

Sward's take on the matter was similar. He is going to get employed again, he will be able to heal his back and stay healthy in the future, things with Lin and him and I are great, nothing to worry about. They both understood what I was talking about but both of them where sure that 'Phy the worrier' is at work again. Well, after yesterday my little depression seems to dissolve slowly today. Both of them are really good at convincing me that things are alright. I hope that I will be able to tell all the positive things that came up over Christmas the next time I stop by.
 
He told me, that even if I am not a materialist, money still makes me feel secure. I don't need fancy things but I need the knowledge of having the basic needs met in the long run.

Well, I consider myself very non-materialistic, but I don't function well without basic financial security. I don't care if I don't have stuff, but I need to know I'll have a roof and food, and it is strange to think of a person who wouldn't need that.

I was extremely stressed out about money for the whole of last year when we had moved here and Alec couldn't get work. Luckily he's now got a job but it barely covers our living expences and my student allowance will run out soon, two years before I graduate. And I know I am not able to work while studying, I have tried before and my studies suffered way too much. So, I still have a lot of stress, and there isn't much I can do about any of the situational factors in play.

But I do have a technique that has been helpful in the past: I imagine the worst-case-scenario, and what I would do if that happened. You have a relatively good welfare state in Germany, right? So your worst financial fears come true: neither Lin or Sward will be able to work, say, for the whole of next year. What will happen? Whether it is because of physical restrictions, or non-availability of work, or both, I'm betting there's some income you do get your way. Probably not quite enough to live as usual, but likely enough to keep a roof over your head, do you think?

I know this kind of thinking used to help me quite a bit back in Home Country, since I always concluded that even if the worst comes to happen (which, in itself is quite unlikely) we will have the basics and survive. Doesn't help so much in the country I live in now, since the benefits here aren't something that can be relied on; thus, our second to worst-case-scenario is that Alec will move back to Home Country to work trying to support both of our living, and the worst-case-scenario is that I'll have to move back, too, before graduating. And particularly the last one scares the living crap out of me, since I've been a student for way too many years (changed universities twice, on the first time switching subject, on the second time country), and I really need to finish somewhere. :(

Sorry to flood your journal with my stress, as if you don't have enough of your own... :rolleyes: :eek:
 
No, I don't mind, in fact it helps reading this. So many similarities again. We didn't move during my studies, but I was hospitalized two times and have lost a semester each time I needed treatment there. Therefore I am a bit behind as well. And I was too comfortable just studying what I was interested in, this consumed quite some time as well. Your “I really need to finish somewhere” makes perfectly sense to me.

And you are right, we won't lose our flat or the be totally out of money along the way, but that will set us back more than one step. It's nothing compared to your fear of moving again, I don't want to think about the impact such an outlook would have on my sleeping habits … if I look at our situation from that perspective, the extension of our two person household with a third already had some positive effects money-wise. Maybe I would be more stressed with just Sward and me around.

Thanks for heartening me, it helped :)
 
So, here we are, a fresh new year waiting for us to explore what we will find along our way. It was a quiet night and really unspectacular, what made it kind of special in its own way. First of all:

Happy New Year to all of you. :)

We had cheese fondue and were so bloated with food that we could hardly move any more. It tasted really good, but I love stove-cheese a bit more, because there are these crispy corners ^.^ But never mind, it was really peaceful and the night was great, snuggled up between Sward and Lin. :eek:

The greatest part that made us smirk was a related one: Lin and I went to do our first training and workout in years. Results: 1. I was feeling sooo great; finally did some sports again. I recognized that I missed the feeling you got after a workout when you are energized but completely wasted. 2. I was hurting like hell :rolleyes: My muscles went sore all over the body, especially the inner parts of the thighs. I couldn't move one bit yesterday. In turn, this resulted in me lying on the sofa and Sward and Lin next to me, each of them took care of one of my legs, trying to massage the pain away. That's the way muscle pain should be treated :D

On a more general note, I am feeling better. I know that there are still many things I need to take care of, but I decided to just start at some point and work through them. My first 'little success' will be an old term paper that I have to hand in. It hasn't had a fixed deadline, that's why it still lies there unfinished. That means I will visit the library tomorrow and look for literature and resources. Another unfinished thing is waiting for me in the cellar: 8 kilo of red cabbage that need to be boiled down and bottled. Great start into a new year, isn't it? :p

I hope your start into 2012 was pleasant as well.
 
Rowing

There has been some discord over the last days caused by everyone of us being a bit unsatisfied with something in regard to our current living arrangement. The main factor that stirs some unrest is Sward. Everyone of us has an own pace and his is the most active and action-oriented one. He can't stand to stay idle and do nothing. Factors that add to his discomfort are his back (he can't do as he pleases), the unknown state of his working situation in some months and the state of our flat. And the last one is the main factor causing him to fell like time is running out.

As I mentioned, we planned to renovate quite a bit of our flat. Mainly the study because all three of us need to use it. Lin and I are sitting at my old desk at the moment with our PCs and Sward is using his via the TV screen in the living room. Because of a certain lack of space we had to put his PC in a small corner behind the couch, not a nice place to sit, especially with his back pain. Therefore the solution with the TV screen, he can lie on the couch surfing the net or playing some games. Downside of this was a slight feeling of being excluded, because Lin and I are sitting here together most of the time. As I said the apartment is really small, the door is never closed and we are only some steps apart, but I know what he is talking about. Getting him into the study was one of the main reasons to renovate the room.

But, even though we asked if it was OK for him if this stays like this for a while and he said 'yes, of course, no problem', he was building up some resentment. This exploded two days ago when he and Lin went to look for a desk for Lin's room and came a across as possible solution for the desk for our study (we design a three person desk where everyone can sit together, but it seemed to be too expensive). They came home to tell me about their idea. They wanted to use a long plank, put in on the wall and arrange all three PCs next to each other. Like chicken on their roost. I was totally against it and threw out the idea. Without knowing how much they invested into it. They calculated how much they would need from which material, where the cable funnel needed to be, what to do with all my stuff for university (along with the planned desk we designed some bookshelves as well) and spend half a day looking for those stuff. And I didn't give any credit for their effort.

That's why both of them were pretty pissed when I just said no, I don't want this to be build like that, I don't feel comfortable like this. That was the point when I had my first double quarrel. Both weren't please with my reaction. Lin was the first to come around and understood why I was so against it. Sward exploded during our argument, mainly because of the reason I mentioned above and secondly because of some old patterns between us that can annoy him. Those patterns are connected to my strong positioning if I have a certain opinion or view. I tend to overrule and not accept the opinion of other people if I feel like mine is a valid one. It is hard to convince me otherwise and he normally isn't as persistent as I am when we discuss the topic at hand.

The main reason for me not wanting to sit there with each of them next to me was my dislike of having just Lin next to me at the moment. I don't like it. I need my space and need to feel like I have some privacy. It can be nice to sit next to each other from time to time but I want my PC and time at it for myself alone. Most of my free time at home is spent in front of the PC. I work with it of course, but if I have some time on my hands, I surf, visit my regular sides/forums, play and look for stuff. I hardly watch TV, I grew up with the PC being my greatest hobby for home activities. And now there is someone sitting next to me, constantly checking in with what I am doing. It's like reading a book while someone is looking over your shoulder. I can't take a break like that and get away from it all.

Sward and I got into a real fight over this. He was being a bit dramatic, accusing us of excluding him, feeling like 'being put into a dark hole on the far end of the room', feeling hurt because Lin was able to do something he would have loved to do since I got this huge desk some years ago (sitting next to me) and me having secrets because I didn't want any of them sitting there. When he got too emotional and therefore started to be irrational, I left the room and we tried to calm down. It took us some time but we settled the matter and the misunderstandings within the next two hours and made up.

But it was still around, because there hasn't been any solution what to do with study. Therefore we worked on our old project and calculated what we would need to build our desk (where each will sit on a different side). When everything was finally done, measurements, material, positioning, etc. Sward and Lin got into a fight. Their first one. And the strange thing was, that I was sitting on the side and all I could think of was: Finally! Is it strange to take this for a positive sign? The argument was mainly about Lin criticizing our constant planning and planning and planning without getting things started and Sward being upset of this accusation because he would have started weeks ago to do as we planned, but felt thwarted by Lin and me. (My part in this was that I was constantly nagging about the money, what else :rolleyes:) But well, be that as it may, I was really glad to see that they are able to criticize each other in an open confrontation now. And that they drew their battle lines but no hardened fronts occurred. (Lin had cut his finger and was trying to fix this, Sward immediately got up and helped him, only minutes after the quarrel. They distinguished between one matter and the other, all I could do was smile contentedly.)

We will see what happens next in regard to the desk-problem. But I think everything is more than OK at the moment, even though it is strange to be happy about an occurrence like the argument we have got :)
 
I just said no, I don't want this to be build like that, I don't feel comfortable like this. That was the point when I had my first double quarrel. Both weren't please with my reaction.

You sound alot like me, serious ALPHA :D.

It took me awhile to figure out how not to just dismiss others suggestions or plans, just because it didn't fit in with the plans in my head. Now I try a different tactic that seems to work better for everyone. I start with "That's really cool. It's different from what I had in my head, let me think about it a little so I can get everything else to work around it." Then after a little while, I can come back with, "I really need my own space without feeling like people are reading over my shoulder... How can we adjust this to make that happen?" Then wait for them to come back with a solution. Giving up the seeming "control" of fixing everything, was incredibly hard, but made my life with my husband a lot better and took a lot of stress off of me.

I'm also one to do a lot of planning and never have the time or MONEY to initiate the project.:eek: Glad you guys were able to work things out.
 
You sound alot like me, serious ALPHA :D.

Guilty on all counts there :cool:

It took me awhile to figure out how not to just dismiss others suggestions or plans, just because it didn't fit in with the plans in my head. Now I try a different tactic that seems to work better for everyone. I start with "That's really cool. It's different from what I had in my head, let me think about it a little so I can get everything else to work around it." Then after a little while, I can come back with, "I really need my own space without feeling like people are reading over my shoulder... How can we adjust this to make that happen?" Then wait for them to come back with a solution. Giving up the seeming "control" of fixing everything, was incredibly hard, but made my life with my husband a lot better and took a lot of stress off of me.

I know ... I know, I know, I know:rolleyes: It's so hard. Honestly, I know how it should work, but every time something like this happens I just can't see what I am doing. I get when someone points out that this and that was a bit rude, dominant, harsh, whatever you want to call it, but no chance to see this in the moment I open my mouth. Because I am just stating my point of view as I feel the others just did. Why do they have to be so sensitive :p Just joking, I get where and what the problem is.
 
I know ... I know, I know, I know:rolleyes: It's so hard. Honestly, I know how it should work, but every time something like this happens I just can't see what I am doing. I get when someone points out that this and that was a bit rude, dominant, harsh, whatever you want to call it, but no chance to see this in the moment I open my mouth. Because I am just stating my point of view as I feel the others just did. Why do they have to be so sensitive :p Just joking, I get where and what the problem is.

You have a HUGE head start on me, it took me about 18 years of marriage to even figure out the problem, much less how to change it.:eek:
 
Alone time

Ok, this time I am having some thoughts on alone time circling in my head. The topic arose some weeks ago. Lin and I were cuddling on the sofa, suddenly he whispered in my ear: “I want to be alone with you.” That gave me a pause. I have had those thoughts more than once already, but it always felt to awkward to tell Sward: “Hey, we will be in Lin's room for an hour or so. See you later.” I could never bring myself to discuss the topic, it felt too early for something like that. In a case vice versa (me telling Lin that I want to be alone with Sward) I couldn't even think about it at all, because I knew how hard it still was for him, to think about physical things between Sward and I. Sward is a lot more OK with the whole thing, but still with a grain of salt mixed into it.

After the first occurrence I talked with Lin and Sward about the obvious need for some private time aside from the time we got with each other every other night.

The first discussion was lead with Lin when he first approached me with the suggestion. He paused for a moment when I asked him how he would feel if the situation would have been reverse, meaning me asking for some time with Sward. He said that he would feel really uncomfortable. Because normally he doesn't have to think about the things Sward and I are doing when we are alone at night. The difference for him was 'maybe there was something happening at some point during that night' and ' we will have sex right now'. He felt forced to think about it and the certainty that it will happen the very moment he would be thinking about it, was hard to gauge.

When I spoke with Sward about the issue, he said that he himself really thought a lot about the problem already and would love to handle this with a bit more ease, or generally have some handling at all on this possibility, because he really missed our quality time we normally got with each other. We tended to just lie down and talk about the day and things that were on our mind whenever we felt like it. In the new situation (Lin moving in and everybody being extremely cautious to not get on the wrong side of somebody) we seldom felt comfortable expressing this need at first but managed to get some of our time already.

Since then everyone has gotten a lot more comfortable with each other and things eased up tremendously. Well, fast forward to New Year's Day: Same situation as before, Lin coming to me, telling me something unrelated, we start to cuddle and without talking about it, it was obvious that we would need some alone time. And I plucked up the courage to talk to Sward. It still felt awkward and I had a hard time relaxing when I went to be with Lin. But it was the first step into an important improvement for our everyday life.

The next time this happened was today. Lin and I got our six-months-anniversary today and stayed up late to talk and took our time to recall all that has happened during the last year. It was a great and cosy night. I would have spend it with Sward, but he was really worn out from the renovation of the study and fell asleep on the couch earlier that evening. Lin and I didn't plan to stay up late and when I recognized that it was already 2 am I suggested to spend the night with Lin again, to spend a whole one with Sward today. We went to bed when Sward got up around 4am. When I woke up and went to see how Sward was doing in the living room around noon, he felt much better (was having a headache) and send me back to Lin after I came out of the shower 'to wake him up as gentle as I could'. I still felt this little awkwardness about him knowing/intending that Lin and I would be intimate again, but it felt much more natural.

When Lin and I were finally up and prepared our late breakfast, Lin came to me to tell me that Sward congratulated him on the six months and told him that his probation period was over as well. (Lin moved in on the 24th of September) Right now they are lying on the floor in the study and plan the best way to manage all the wires of our three PCs, because we are good to re-furnish our renovated study already. It looks so great. We decided to get some new paint on the walls, build our three person desk and rearranged our old stuff quite a bit. I will tell you about the renovation and the things we discovered about each other the next time I got time to update again. Being me feels really good at the moment :D
 
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Just for the record, this may be of interest for my blog as well. Sward and Lin's view on the question: "What were your initial thoughts on the mono/poly problematic at the start of things?" Here is how they answered that (a little insight in how some monos process the poly issue;)):

My two men are mono, but aren't able to answer you directly. Language boundaries and such. I will translate the discussion that ensued when I asked them your question :)
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Lin: Poly wasn't the matter for me. Phy could have been promiscuous, or could have called it whatever you can think of, it was the same for me. In the beginning, when we discussed the topic (I was still at home, separated from them), I wasn't envious that she could love more than one, I was envious that Sward was able to get what I wanted to have. When we processed to a more practical handling and I got to know Sward better, we met and talked, the envy vanished in that regard and a new issue arose: They knew each other so much longer and every time they talked about 'Ah, do you remember this or that, wasn't it fun?' envy hit home again.

Regarding the sex-matter: Yes, of course it isn't a pleasant feeling at first, but it depends tremendously on the other partner. On which level of friendship you are with him. Do you hate him? Do you envy him? Do you accept him/ still feeling uncomfortable? At that stage it depends on what type of guy you are. If you are like

(Sward skipping in) having no problems with your wife being intimate with another man, in a certain way even like to think about that.

(Lin again): Yeah, right, you are strange *pokes him* Or one proceeds as I did: You accept that there is another one, doing different things with your spouse that she likes, having been together long enough to know everything about her and such; But I am mostly pretending to just have a mono relationship with her. I don't think about Sward, I am satisfied with what I have with her and I normally don't think about her husband at all. It's just OK. I can't say that I still have problems with them being intimate most of the time.

But the most important point for me is: How does my partner behave? The poly person of the relationship just has to get across that she is able to distinguish between the other persons who are in a relationship with her. Phy did that right from the start, tried to explain to us that we are so different, giving her different things, evoking different feelings and such. This assurance isn't necessary all the time, but it has to come across as true and secure, because the real understanding how 'this poly mind' works will never be there for a mono person. It helped me when she pointed out in what parts her husband and I were different, taking note of special personal traits and quirks, expressing that she liked this particularities about me and so on.

You don't have to see the other person as a friend in all cases, but you have to be able to accept him in her life. Comprehending that she loves another person like she loves you *jokingly* like she preaches: one level for all, no one is more important to me, no hierarchy, one level for all .... *serious again* and the most important point: She has to get across that you are something special, giving her something that the other isn't able to give her. That's how it works for me. And talk! Communicate, communicate communicate. Lot's of communication helps. *smiles*

Me to Sward: Anything to add? Initial thoughts?

Sward: Well, my situation has been different. I have been the one who has been in a long relationship with her, I had to share suddenly. It took a lot of trust in regard to her. I had to trust her that the love was strong enough that she wouldn't leave me, that this wasn't a scam, that this was truly what she felt. At first, I lost some of that trust, because it was so new. But when I talked to Lin, I regained that trust, when we build this friendship, it helped to deal with this situation because we got along with each other.

I liked talking about Phy with him, exchanging experiences and ...

(Lin skipping in)Yep, profiting from experience of the person who has been in the relationship longer, knowing all her spleens and quirks *laughs*

Sward: Yeah, right *grins back at him* But talking about problems as well.

In regard to physical intimacy: I am a bit different, I like thinking about stuff that they may do with each other, therefore I don't have that many problems with that side of things. Emotional intimacy was my problem when things got started. What would have problematic for me, would have been to maintain different households. It is important for me to be able to see them, experience them together, share chores, helping each other …

(Lin skipping in) But it would have been problematic if we would have been more like alpha males. This works because we are both like we are, *glancing at me* we have our alpha right there ….

Sward: Well, I even clean your room from time to time when I got the mopping water ready and am at it.
Lin: Right, that's what I mean, we are homemakers.

Sward: And finally: Communication is the key :)
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Aren't I good at taking minutes? :p Well, maybe this helps to satisfy your curiosity.
 
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