the story of a secondary

Thanks for your thoughts, ladies. The jury is still out on this one, but of course I'll keep you updated. I'm seeing Davis today, I think I'll play this one by ear. I do think it'd be ok either way.

Ah, crushes. I kept getting distracted during yoga yesterday, grr. I wish this blog weren't a secret and this crush weren't a secret so I could post pictures of Jay. You know you're into someone when you want to show them to everyone you know. :D
 
I don't think that you should have to admit to every bout of flirtation that you get into. But the following details make me think that, in this case, it might be better to at least mention it to Davis... and even to Jay, so that he knows that your boundaries are not going to be crossed.
I haven't felt crushed out quite like this in years, maybe not since high school, in this unacknowledged and unacknowledgeable way. [...] I'm positive, as of tonight at least, that it can't just be me, Jay has to have noticed it too, this dynamic we've slipped into. Hell, Davis has probably picked up on it too, he's an empathic sort of guy. [...] And in the meantime... masturbate furiously... er, I mean, cold shower...
I wish this blog weren't a secret and this crush weren't a secret so I could post pictures of Jay. You know you're into someone when you want to show them to everyone you know.
Seems to me that - this time - your feelings for another are stronger than usual. Flirting can be even more fun / exciting when you DON'T know whether it's going to lead anywhere further. But it can also be fun (and much less dangerous) if everybody concerned (You, Davis, his sister, Jay, and Jay's GF) KNOWS that it's only flirting and no more. Given your own polyamory, Davis' having to deal with his discomfort at that, his depressions, and his sister's mistrust of you, you'd be playing it safer if everything were clear and above board. Things like this may seem unimportant to one of the parties (so they're not talked about) until one of the other parties springs the surprise on you that for the last 6 weeks jealousy has been gnawing at their entrails...

Especially given that Davis might have picked up on it by himself, I think that you should talk about it.

But, as opalescent points out, don't make a heavy deal out of it.

And keep taking the cold showers... or whatever.;););):D:D:D
 
So... who is this Jay guy to me anyway?

Jay and I went to the same high school but we didn't know each other then exactly. I was a freshman when he was a cool, long-haired senior. Years later, when I was just leaving high school, I started a fwb relationship with his best friend and roommate at the time, Terry (the one who's now dating Davis's sister). Jay thought it was messed up that Terry was fooling around with someone so much younger, and didn't have much to do with me. In groups he would be snarky to me, but I thought that was just the way he was (not totally untrue).

The years went by and though Terry and I were no longer a thing I stayed connected with that friend group. When I started dating Davis (a childhood friend from a different state), I introduced him to everyone. Jay and Davis became particularly close. Davis is completely straight and pretty dang mono, but he indulged me in fantasies about threeways from time to time which sometimes included our friend Thea and sometimes included Jay (yeah, I've always had a thing for him)... just fantasies, nothing we even remotely considered pursuing in real life.

When all the drama went down with Davis and I, my biggest struggle was knowing I needed to leave and not being able to bring myself to do it. Davis was scarily depressed and isolated and I cared for him very deeply, how could I abandon him? In the end, it was seeing Jay's devoted friendship that gave me the confidence that someone would be there to hold Davis together even if I left.

I felt indebted to Jay, I felt this swell of gratitude that a) he had set me free, and b) he was watching over my loved one. At the same time, I felt pretty sure he hated me. After all, Terry and Davis's sister did. How can you not at least resent someone who's broken your friend when you're the one there picking up the pieces?

Over the four and a half years between then and now, Davis and I went through various cycles of staying away from each other, reconnecting, being friends, being lovers, and finally being in mutually-acknowledged love and now a relationship again. Jay was a presence that whole time. I've talked about the way he avoids eye contact sometimes and that is in fact a thing about him, but in truth I was afraid to look him in the eye myself. I felt ashamed and almost afraid of him, of what he thought of me.

That started really changing about a year ago. The four of us would hang out from time to time -- me, Davis, Jay, and Jay's gf Bonnie -- and it was clear that things were ok. We were hardly best buds, but Jay included me and was cool with me. He and Bonnie have come to see my queer cabaret group a few times, which I really appreciate because they're totally not involved in the queer scene or the theater scene otherwise. Bonnie is a cool chick, we've bonded a little.

There was one evening, not long before Davis and I decided to date again, that shifted things on a fundamental level. The four of us went to see an art show that featured some of Bonnie's work. Afterwards, we went drinking. We were playing pool and a random guy began hitting on me inappropriately. Jay was the first one to notice, he took me aside and asked me if I wanted him to take the guy outside. I thought it was absurd but touching that he would offer to beat up this guy for me. I think he was completely sincere. I told him it was fine, and just went outside and enjoyed the air with Bonnie for a few minutes to get away.

We ended up going back to our neighborhood, dropping off the car, and walking to a different bar to finish up the evening. We were all quite sloshed by this point, as you can imagine. Jay and I got to reminiscing about high school, Terry, all that old stuff. Jay alluded to us having hated each other back then. I asked him what he meant. He explained about his problem with my relationship with Terry and how he'd been mean to me because of it and had figured I'd hated him right back as a consequence, known of which I'd known. "No," I said, "I guess I was a pretty oblivious kid, but I thought you just didn't give a crap whether I lived or died, and I never hated you... I never hated you."

It was such a strange moment, each of us having our past recast like that. I carried it with me for a couple of days afterwards, mulling it over, thinking a lot about my life and all the players in it. And then there was that dream. I guess it seems silly to keep coming back to that, what does a dream really signify anyway? But, well, there are dreams you forget and dreams that stick with you, and this was one of the latter. I'm not trying to give it more prominence or significance than it deserves, but it did represent a shift for me. Fun fact: the hug in the dream, warm and mutual and reassuring, was more close physical contact than we've ever had in real life. I hugged him once after one of my shows and he was like "woah, woah"... like I've said, closed off.

Anyway, that leads us to the present day. I've thought about it more and decided not to say anything to Davis at present after all. It may be that I'm just a little giddy at having Jay be a close friend that I can laugh with and bond with after all this time. There may occasionally be a flirty tone, but that doesn't mean we're flirting per se, I do think some of it may be in my head. Every single interaction has occurred with Davis present, and he already knows very clearly that I think Jay is attractive, so there's hardly a secret here that needs revealing. Talking about it with him might just make things weird. I've been trying to learn that even though introspection and communication are both vital, overthinking and overtalking *every* single thing is not necessarily beneficial in all cases... it's a tough lesson for me.

If I have any reason to believe something more is brewing, or if I just feel the moment is right, then I'll talk to Davis about it. But whereas Ziggy was actively wooing me, trying to get me to cheat (ugh, why did I let it go on?), Jay would never do such a thing... I truly don't have anything to fear. The fact that we don't even casually touch, except in the most incidental of ways, makes me all the more certain that I'll notice in plenty of time of we're ever in the slightest danger of crossing a line.

It's been great, sharing a wavelength with Jay, realizing that we both find the same things about Davis exasperating and that we can back each other up when he's being ridiculous. He's like a metamour, which is appropriate considering that I jokingly call him and Davis "hetero boyfriends" from time to time, they spend so much time together. Davis and Bonnie had a much more confrontational "metamour" relationship to start, each felt the other was monopolizing too much of Jay's time, but they eventually came around to getting along.
 
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A postscript.

On Sunday, yesterday, I joined Davis at his place around noon to watch the ball game. Jay showed up not long after, unannounced -- Bonnie is out if town so it was just assumed between the two of them that they'd hang. The three of us groaned and cheered for the ball players, and our team narrowly won.

Afterwards, I suggested that we go out for burgers and drinks. Davis and I contrived a reason for me to stop back at my house first so that I could grab a present we'd been meaning to give Jay (his birthday was a few weeks ago but I kept forgetting the gift at home). In the car, as the three of us joked around, Davis called Jay weird-looking. "Don't say he's weird-looking, that's mean," I said. "He's striking." "Pssh," said Davis, "I mean, people do want to strike him on a regular basis..." Just totally silly, warm, familiar banter all around. I love three-person dynamics when it's all right, I really do.

At the bar we gave him the present, a book, he liked it. We talked about the impending Thanksgiving holiday -- my parents are joining us at Davis's parents' home this year for the first time. Jay had no particular plans. We invited him to join us, but he declined. I hope he hangs out with someone at least, I hate to think of him being alone (Bonnie won't be back until the weekend).
 
I used to be very careful about this site, lately I've been more lax. There have been a couple of times now that I've been posting on my phone and Davis has asked me what I'm doing. I've given generic answers and he hadn't pried. This morning it happened again and he did press as to what I was doing. Posting on a message board, I said. Which message board, he asked. His parents were around. We can talk about it later, I said.

Later we went for a walk, just the two of us. I thought about whether or not I was ready to let him see this blog but didn't end up saying anything. Who knows, he may already know about it if he's caught a glance at my phone, maybe he's secretly read the whole thing. There's nothing here that I feel like I can't show him, it's just all very personal, like a diary, and I wouldn't want him to read my diary. But this *is* a public website.

Should I just tell him?
 
You might tell him and ask him not to read? I don't know if that'll work for you two.

For me, it's been an adjustment since me and Mya started a relationship to have her read everything I write. Alec knows that I write but he isn't interested in reading and I don't really want him to, either. But Mya and I met through the place where I do most of my journalling, and we started our journal here together. We have talked a lot about the good and bad that brings. On one hand, I have no secrets, so it "doesn't matter" if she reads the stuff. On the other, it is different. I don't censor myself, because writing is really important to me, and because we have agreed we don't want our relationship to have an impact on what we can write. But there are issues such as timing: if it's heavy news and she's already tired I would wait a while to tell her but since I write it, she will know when she happens to read it. And often it would be important to communicate about it quite soon but it's not always possible since both of us have a life and we're in an LDR. And sometimes there can be misunderstandings, which may not have happened when talking, and which can cause hurt feelings until they're cleared up (which can be a while because of the timing thing). Then again, this has also been useful. We communicate about everything. That's both good and bad, but so far mostly good. It can cause overanalysing, and unnecessary worrying. But it also makes our partnership really close and honest. I think it benefits us because our communication styles are quite similar, and therefore misunderstandings are quite rare; and also because we enjoy talking every little thing to death. :rolleyes: But I still would not want the same with Alec, because I think the negative effects would outweigh the positives.
 
Thanks for the perspective, Rory. I ended up telling him and saying that he was not barred from reading my blog but that he might not want to as it could be a bit much emotionally. He said he probably won't but that he'll tell me if he does.

At his parents' place, where we just spent two days, I kept thinking about the future. On all the walls there were pictures of him and his sister as kids... I found myself wondering often whether he and I will one day go on to form a family of our own. I never used to have these kind of thoughts. I suppose it's part of growing up and not wanting to just drift through life anymore. Or maybe it's just about finally seeing someone close to me have a baby of her own. Hell, I am still totally ambivalent about the idea of kids. But the future, how can I not wonder about it?

We had a difficult conversation on the long car ride home about the things I think I would need from him if I were to feel comfortable making a long-term commitment. Chief among those is the whole sense-of-direction, dealing-with-the-depression thing. And he actually has been doing better with all that lately, to be fair, but there's so much more he could be doing with his life and I don't just mean finding a job. He didn't like feeling like I was handing him a list of faults to correct and I didn't like being in that position myself one bit, but I felt like I had to let him know where I was at rather than just silently wait for him to work on this stuff on his own and then leave if he doesn't.
 
Other random tidbits.

I had an unexpected free day this week on the day that Eric stays home with Bee. I came over and watched the boy for a couple of hours while E got some chores done, it was really nice for all of us. Bee is a big fan of the natural world. If he's fussing he'll usually calm down and perk up when taken outside. During my visit, I decided to get a head start on teaching him how to give cats "nice pets", so I took his little hand and ran it along the cat's side. He got all focused and quiet as I did this several more times and didn't try to grab or pull or anything. I know he's too little to actually understand, but I appreciate his respect for animals nonetheless. :)

Gia and I haven't spent much time together lately. :/ The holidays make it tough, we're both running around trying to see all our family members. I feel calm about it, which is nice on the one hand, but on the other hand I worry that it means I'm losing my romantic/emotional connection to her if the distance/time apart doesn't bother me. *sigh* I am *so* good at worrying. It's assuredly just because I've been distracted by all the time I'm spending with Davis that I miss her less, which is not a bad thing.

We hung out with Jay again in a big group of friends. I still appreciate his weird-cuteness and his perceptiveness and all the other things that make me like him, but the crushed out part wasn't quite so intense. Maybe it really was just a brief, er, flare-up, based on our burgeoning friendship and my happiness about that? Like with everything, only time will tell and I would do best not to concern myself with it more than is called for!
 
I'm just another newbie to this forum who got hooked for ages reading through your blog. Phew, all caught up... and just in time for sunrise ;)
 
I'm just another newbie to this forum who got hooked for ages reading through your blog. Phew, all caught up... and just in time for sunrise ;)

Ha, yeah, bit of a novel, ain't it? Or at least a collection of themed short stories. :D Let me know if you have any thoughts/reactions!
 
Ok, so... I was writing a post on someone else's thread, trying to impart the message that it can sometimes be vital to leave someone you love. I realized that I'd written something way too personal and that it should go here. I posted the advice and a link in case she wants the context I'm coming from, but I just didn't feel right using her thread for what had become a platform for exorcising my own demons

* **

The longest relationship I've ever been in lasted three years and ended four and a half years ago. The last year of that relationship, especially the last 6 months was just... well, it left scars. I knew I needed to leave but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I kept convincing myself that it made sense to stay, that it would get better. Deep down I knew that what we had had become broken, I knew that I wanted and needed to move on. I knew that as much as it was a matter of love, my guilt and his dependency were what was holding me in place. And it was like none of that knowledge mattered.

We alienated some of our close friends, who couldn't stand the tension between us. We went on an awesome overseas trip halfway through that year and for a long time after I couldn't think of the trip without crying because it was such a beautiful escape in what was otherwise all too often a sea of pain. I stopped writing in my personal journal because I was too disgusted with myself. I tried to walk away a few times but each time I lost my resolve.

I had always understood intellectually what it meant to "live a lie" but actually doing it was... not good. For a while I sort of watched my life, detached, thinking "Wow, it's really possible to live like this. I could go on like this indefinitely, just losing more and more of myself." The thought was sickening but it wasn't enough to give me the strength to end it and that just made it even worse. Plenty of the time we were actually happy together, is the funny thing, we laughed and did stuff together and had sex even as our emotional lives deteriorated. But eventually even those good things got tainted and messed up and sad more often than not.

On the outside things were fine, I was prospering at work, I kept busy. Those closest to us knew different, of course. We screamed at each other and cried some nights, and once in the street in the middle of the day, and it still didn't end. It was never going to just magically end on its own or magically get better. And he wasn't going to end it himself, he wasn't going to let me go. He threatened suicide a couple of times after things had gotten really bad and to this day I don't believe he was trying to manipulate me, he had lost control of things just like I had and was floundering, failing. It would have to be up to me and I blew it.

I loved him so much, I really did. I wanted so much for things to just... be ok. Somewhere deep down I didn't believe that I could just leave any time I wanted. Or maybe I really just didn't have the strength, I don't know.

And then, finally, I began lining up a place to stay. I still didn't know if I would go through with it, up until the very moment I left. I left him huddled in a corner, totally broken. I left the man I loved, calling on the people who loved him to come save him but not knowing if it would be enough. Not knowing if he would even make it, but I somehow managed to reach the place in myself where my soul mattered more than staying with him in the hell we had managed to make in the midst of what had once been the best thing in either of our lives.

The really strange thing is that the guy in the story above is the same guy I've been dating for the last 6 months. Yeah, I know, I'm surprised too believe me. But the thing is, we had then and still have a deep base of compatibility, respect, trust, and caring. I never stopped loving him, he never stopped loving me. The problem wasn't in our love it was in the situation and our wills. I loved someone else and that was unacceptable and my desire to leave, combined with my paralyzing guilt and sense of responsibility, and his inability to just release me, it all just ruined what we had until it couldn't possibly be ok and we were both acting in extremely dysfunctional ways. Since then we've had a long time to heal ourselves, understand what happened, make amends to one another and become stronger and more independent people.
 
Gia and I have plans to spend the evening together at her place tomorrow night, which I've been looking forward to all week. No expectations whatsoever on my part, I wasn't even really thinking of it as a date, just looking forward to being together.

She messages me today and says that a relative unexpectedly needs to be in town and is staying with them, which might put a cramp on our style. Oh, I say, would you rather postpone? No, she says, it's ok, it just messes with some of her plans for our time together. Right, I reply jokingly, less with the nude oil massages and more with the tea and polite conversation. She grumbles and says "I even had the oil all picked out too. But, well, at least time moves forward and we'll have plenty of other opportunities." I have no idea if we're joking now or not, so I just say that I'm fully confident that we will indeed.

I am *loving* the idea that after a full year of yearning for her I've truly grown accustomed to things and can be patient and calm about it, and now maybe *she's* finally itching to be with *me* and getting impatient herself!! Role reversal, baby. Not that I want her to suffer, and certainly not that I'll deny her when she's ready, but I loooove the idea of being the cool cat who lets her get all hot and bothered to the point that she comes after me. Getting excited as I type this...

Eric did end up sleeping with Liza, btw. I feel no jealousy about it and frankly only mild curiosity about whether it's helping spur her to reconnect with me. Hey, as long as the result is that I'm holding her and touching her and tasting her and loving her with my whole body instead of only with my heart and mind sooner rather than later...

It might not hurt too that I've been texting her risque pictures of myself lately. :D
 
I had a long, convoluted, fuzzily-recalled dream last night, which is normal for me. Two parts I remember clearly, both involving Jay.

At one point, he and I were in a parking garage saying goodbye. I reached out as if to embrace him and he got an amused look in his eyes and acted like he was going to fight me rather then let me do it. We tussled playfully, which ended up with us on the ground and me on top of him (I assume he let me win since he's much bigger then me). I gave him a quick hug and then jumped up. Davis was there too but was asleep.

Later, for some reason, Jay and I were in a bed together. We nuzzled, then cuddled, then kissed, then made out, and then we were having PiV sex. After a minute of that I stopped him, knowing that we shouldn't have done it. I asked him if he would tell Davis, he said no. I wasn't sure what I would do. I felt guilty and worried and angry (at myself, but also at Davis for being the reason that something that felt so good was wrong). I sighed "I wish this could just be ok with him..."

Interesting contrast to the dreams I had when Davis and I first got back together, which were explicitly about not breaking our boundaries. Maybe I'm ready to talk to him about opening things up more? I've thought about whether or not I want to see Harry again, but I don't feel quite ready for it somehow.

It's funny, if it had just been an uncomplicated sex dream about Jay I would have been pleased to have had it. But the fact that it was a dream about cheating made it, while still hot, uncomfortable and sad. Bleh. Stupid brain.
 
I had a long, convoluted, fuzzily-recalled dream last night, which is normal for me. Two parts I remember clearly, both involving Jay. ... We nuzzled, then cuddled, then kissed, then made out, and then we were having PiV sex. After a minute of that I stopped him, knowing that we shouldn't have done it. I asked him if he would tell Davis, he said no. I wasn't sure what I would do. I felt guilty and worried and angry ... Maybe I'm ready to talk to him about opening things up more? I've thought about whether or not I want to see Harry again, but I don't feel quite ready for it somehow.

Eh, dreams reflect many things like what's been on our minds lately, recent conversations, what we ate that night :), but I don't think they are signs telling us what actions we need to take in real life. They are so much about symbolism, so who knows how many ways they can be interpreted.

The sex part of your dream, and the part about not telling Davis, could just be a visual representation of the crush you have for Jay, and that you haven't told Davis about it (correct?). Maybe you feel down deep that that is a boundary.
 
Maybe you feel down deep that that is a boundary.

Dream interpretation aside, I have this theory about falling for friends of people you are attracted to. I realised at one point that I have crushes on both my long-term partners' close friends... say partners in crime or "brofriends" or whatever. I was wondering whether this is related to a poly-style mindset, when you feel abundant love for someone, you may emotionally "net in" the other romances/bromances etc of theirs: you are attracted to those who are attracted to those who attract you, we all fall into this magnetic melting pot and BOOM

Well, not really that, but I've been thinking of it as a kind of syndrome... to crush on the brofriend. It's almost inevitable... but it's got way more at stake obviously, with the need to be respectful of their friendship dynamics.

It may be that Davis wouldn't be comfortable with you getting with together Jay sexually/romantically... but luckily there are many ways to be intimate and I'm sure if you're both drawn to getting to know each other better, you'll find a path through :)

Without going into the details here (may blog on it separately myself) this is what's happened with me + the two brofriends of my two SOs, and my desires (surprisingly!) have been totally sated.
 
@Nyc - I also don't see dreams as signs I need to follow, but I do find that I can figure things out about where I'm at sometimes by paying attention to them. And yeah, still haven't said anything to Davis... maybe soon.

@Fuchka - I've definitely noticed that tendency in myself, of falling for the people closest to my partner. I think you're right on the money with this, "when you feel abundant love for someone, you may emotionally "net in" the other romances/bromances etc of theirs." I look forward to hearing more of your story.

I'm not concerned by it all at this stage. I've had many many crushes in my life, just not so much in recent years, which is what makes this one more noticeable...
 
Maybe you feel down deep that that is a boundary.

I'm curious what you mean by this? I feel like it could be interpreted more than one way.
 
I noticed yesterday that Eric had posted on facebook about needing to find something for him and Bee to do that night. I was surprised -- had Gia asked him to clear out for our date? I knew it would be better to let them work it out on their own, but I gave in to curiosity and concern and asked her about it.

She was very annoyed with him. Apparently she had told him days ago that she wanted alone time with me tonight (his aunt decided to go home after all) and had told him she could go to my place, but he had said it was ok, he would make plans to go out. She felt like him posting about it online and clearly having no plan on the day of was thoughtless of him because she was already feeling guilty for "kicking out her family" from her home. I think she was also embarrassed that I had seen it and worried that I would now feel bad. I wished I'd gone with my first impulse and ignored it. :/

Luckily the two of them worked it out. Eric put Bee in a carrying harness and went to the diner down the street to have dessert and coffee and read for a couple of hours (to his credit, he *was* trying to find a friend to hang with but no one was answering their phone, and he made it clear that the diner was totally cool with him and he would come back when he got too bored).

I watched Gia's face as they left and she looked as if she was about to cry. I know she cherishes every moment with her husband and son and feels like there's never enough time, and it's been a terribly stressful week for her (drama at work, money troubles), so her distress didn't surprise me and I didn't let myself feel even a little guilty. A little time apart will hardly hurt them, and of course she knew that too. She got over it quickly and we enjoyed a quiet dinner together.

We laid down together in her bed, just the two of us for the first time in a long time. Face to face, bodies touching, mostly clothed. We talked and touched in intimate but not sexual ways (brushing back one another's hair, touching each other's backs and arms, etc.). She apologized, said that she had wanted to be more amorous but just didn't have the energy. I told her that I was just excited that it was something she *could* want again, and that I was so happy to be close and alone with her.

I had no real sense of time as we lay there. We said sweet and loving things to each other and kissed a little. I could have stayed there with her for hours. So genuine, warm, reassuring. She told me that this was something she had wanted to give me for a while, a special night just for me. She knows that my primary love language is physical touch, and she gave me just what I needed. :)

Eventually Eric came home. He said that the waitress had given him his sundae for free because she was so enamored of Bee. I had a strong urge to hold him, kiss him all over, touch his face. I settled for hugging him and kissing his neck. I can't wait until he and I can become closer again, and as the physical relationship between Gia and I re-knits itself, I feel that time coming closer and closer.

On the drive home I felt quiet and perfectly content in a way I haven't in a while.
 
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