Jealousy and Neglect

illflyaway

New member
Long, long ago, before mortgages and preschool drop-offs, my husband and I decided we both were open to the other having another relationship. We both had some relationships, but when I got pregnant with our first kid, neither of us had a serious outside relationship, and I really lost interest in having a relationship outside of our relationship. He continued to have brief relationships, but nothing that materialized into anything serious. Meanwhile, his interest in me waned. First, he didn't really want to spend time with me, telling me that he felt too tired. Then, he stopped wanting to have sex with me, claiming a low sex drive due to exhaustion. I have a hard time accepting his claim of exhaustion and low sex drive, since he will stay out extremely late to pursue other women. It seems like he always has a sex drive when he has a chance with someone else. He says that it's just because they are novel. I don't know what to do. I am so jealous. I didn't feel so jealous when we first started out, when I felt loved and wanted, but seeing him pursue these women when I so desperately want his attention but he denies me, it hurts so much. I've tried talking to him about it, but he says he doesn't enjoy spending time with me when I don't act happy, and I really really want him to want to spend time with me. I don't want to leave. I have young kids. I really love him. I wish I had never heard of polyamory. How do I fix this mess?
 
Long, long ago, before mortgages and preschool drop-offs, my husband and I decided we both were open to the other having another relationship. We both had some relationships, but when I got pregnant with our first kid, neither of us had a serious outside relationship, and I really lost interest in having a relationship outside of our relationship. He continued to have brief relationships, but nothing that materialized into anything serious. Meanwhile, his interest in me waned. First, he didn't really want to spend time with me, telling me that he felt too tired. Then, he stopped wanting to have sex with me, claiming a low sex drive due to exhaustion. I have a hard time accepting his claim of exhaustion and low sex drive, since he will stay out extremely late to pursue other women. It seems like he always has a sex drive when he has a chance with someone else. He says that it's just because they are novel. I don't know what to do. I am so jealous. I didn't feel so jealous when we first started out, when I felt loved and wanted, but seeing him pursue these women when I so desperately want his attention but he denies me, it hurts so much. I've tried talking to him about it, but he says he doesn't enjoy spending time with me when I don't act happy, and I really really want him to want to spend time with me. I don't want to leave. I have young kids. I really love him. I wish I had never heard of polyamory. How do I fix this mess?

When "you don't act happy"? So, happiness is just some act where you pretend to be happy when you aren't? How does that solve anything? The fact is, you aren't happy, and as your husband, he needs to try to figure out why. It's not his responsibility to cheer you up, but if it's something he's doing that's making you sad, he needs to evaluate whether or not what he's doing is worth the pain it's causing you.

When you say, "I wish I had never heard of polyamory"... I've heard that before. It's not an easy thing to come to terms with but look at it this way. You can't know that your life would be different if he was monogamous with you. He could have gotten this far, realized he was unhappy, and started cheating. Don't wish for something you can't have, work to fix what you do have and build to what you want to have.

Seek out counseling. It's clear that what you're saying to him isn't getting through, and it's clear that you both still want to be in the relationship or one of you would have left. Go to a poly-aware counselor and work out your issues both between you and him and you and his other women. It really sounds like he doesn't want to stop and YOU need to figure out if you're okay with that or if that's a hard limit. If he is willing to stop until the kids are more grown up and then re-evaluate, great. But you're overwhelmed, and either you need him to help you support this weight on your shoulders or you need to find a way to deal with it on your own.
 
I agree with KyleKat - you have a broken relationship - adding more people isn't going to make it any better.

If he wants to make things work with you then he needs to put what energy he has (which may well be less than he used to have - we're none of us getting any younger!) into your relationship, rather than using it to find others. If he really has given up on it, then you both need to recognise that and take the necessary steps.

I also agree that this has nothing to do with polyamory - the relationship isn't on the rocks because of poly, it's because of your relationship.
 
I believe acting happy encourages him to want to spend time with me. No, it hasn't made him want to spend time with me, but I think of it like this: Would he rather spend time with the wife who greets him every day with a smile and a beer or the one who greets him with complaints if at all?

How do I find poly-friendly counselors? At one point, I looked for one by asking on the local poly group, but no one could think of a male poly-aware counselor, and my husband refuses to see a woman.

I wouldn't describe myself as okay with non-monogamy, given how our marriage is right now, but it's not a hard limit, either. I'd leave if he beat our kids or gambled us into poverty, but as long as we parent and run a household effectively, I'll stay, even knowing that he will probably not change. When I think of "fixing this," I would love it if fixing it was finding a way to make him love me, but more realistically, I think it's "How do I find acceptance? How do I find happiness? How do I get past the jealousy?" while I feel starving for his love, attention, and affection and he pursues others? I definitely think the advice of working on fixing what I do have is dead-on: I spend a lot of time wondering if he'd have these lovers if I hadn't agreed to this in the first place; if it would be easier for me if he was cheating (and maybe I wouldn't know about the partners); etc...
 
How long ago did you have your baby? Is postpartum depression an issue?

Definitely get into counceling. If your having trouble finding a poly friendly counselor, try to interview a few prior to making an appointment. It doesn't sound like your problem is poly, your problem is that you guys are not working and not communicating (whining and complaining is not communicating). So many things change after having a baby, it can be and extreme struggle to find a balance again, especially between the two parents.
 
"greets him with a smile and a beer"?
-refuses to see a woman councelor?
-other women are novel?
-doesn't want to hang with you if you don't act happy?

Maybe I'm getting this wrong, but I would take a good look at how your husband values you in particular and all women in general. If he doesn't place value on women as individuals he is never going to care about your needs as his love and partner and just place expectations on you as his wife
 
I have found that the best source of fulfilment for me is to be loved and accepted for who I am.
I also struggle with finding that with my husband (different reasons).

I suggest scheduling activities outside of the home at least 2 times a week and once on the weekend that YOU DO NOT TAKE THE CHILDREN.

Put it on the calendar and remind him that those are HIS times to watch the kids.

I say this because-often, the one who works has NO CLUE how much WORK it really is to REGULARLY care for the child(ren).

(The best thing I ever did was leave my kids for 6 weeks with my husband without arranging daycare for him.)

HE is a parent (just as you are) and if he puts more time and attention into parenting while you are out (even if what you end up doing is going somewhere and bawling your eyes out for 3 hours at first)-it will help him to be more aware and understanding of the difficulty you struggle with when HE is going out all of the time but "too exhausted" to do anything with you.

Find a social activity-somewhere you can start to make friends-and make yourself a promise those 3 times a week-that you won't talk about the issues at home. Your focus is ON YOU, what YOU enjoy, etc.

I know it doesn't DIRECTLY address the issue you are having with him-but it will indirectly-because it will help you start building a piece of life that isn't revolving around him (even caring for the kids is part of him).
 
My friends gave me excellent advice recently. Most counselors don't advertise their poly-friendliness, but if you find a counselor that supports LBGT, they may be willing to help. I found someone that was a male and helped LGBT, so I asked him and he said yes he had worked with polyamory before.

What's this bullshit about not seeing a female counselor? Our first counselor was a woman. The only reason we aren't going back to her is because she isn't poly-friendly, but she saved our marriage (we just didn't discuss poly there).

The Ethical Slut was written by two women. What's wrong with women giving counseling?!

Sorry. Sexism pisses me off.
 
Not sure where you're located, but there are a few sites that have poly-friendly professionals listed.

Polychromatic being one. The National Coalition for Sex Awareness also has a list of kink-friendly professionals, and usually polyamory is included.

Our local poly group on fetlife also has quite a few counselors who have thrown their information up in the forum area, so you might check that out if fetlife is used much by the poly community in your area.
 
Lots of people already gave good thoughts. Here's my spin.

You guys did NOT agree to close up for pregnancy/child rearing.

Meanwhile, his interest in me waned. First, he didn't really want to spend time with me, telling me that he felt too tired.

Is it YOU? Or the realities of fatherhood?

Then, he stopped wanting to have sex with me, claiming a low sex drive due to exhaustion.

Could be tired. New parents often are.

Or is it turn off of the pregnant female? Lactating breasts? Aches and pains and kids underfoot nursing?

Was it couvade?

I have a hard time accepting his claim of exhaustion and low sex drive, since he will stay out extremely late to pursue other women.

And why is this done? To run away from the grown up business at home of being a present father? He made this baby didn't he? With you? Even if he's finding he's not cut out to be a father and he wants OUT of the marriage -- he needs to play like a grown up then and resolve it.

WHAT DOES HE WANT FROM YOU AND THE RELATIONSHIP? Honestly? You in or out?

I don't know what to do. I am so jealous. I didn't feel so jealous when we first started out, when I felt loved and wanted, but seeing him pursue these women when I so desperately want his attention but he denies me, it hurts so much.

Have you been checked for postpartum depression?

And heck ya, you'd be miffed. There's work at home to do with little babies and he's not being the partner he signed up to be when making these babies with you. He's not following through on a lot of promises.

If he did not WANT to make the babies, he should have been clear in his wants, needs, and limits from the start.

Again... WHAT DOES HE WANT FROM YOU AND THE RELATIONSHIP? Honestly? You in or out?

I've tried talking to him about it, but he says he doesn't enjoy spending time with me when I don't act happy, and I really really want him to want to spend time with me. I don't want to leave. I have young kids. I really love him. I wish I had never heard of polyamory. How do I fix this mess?

I do not think the problem is polyamory. I think the root of the problem is him shirking his father responsibilities and his husband responsibilities. He is not giving you clear communication. He is not giving you support and nurture. In short, in my universe? He is in violation of MANY bullet points! And he would be in serious trouble because he is NOT in right relationship with me!

If he is depressed or you are from the experience of pregnancy and birthing and living with infants -- in my universe?

  • You are responsible for taking care of your own stuff.

Get your health check ups and get on track as individuals. That is first. I would start there.

Then have the talk. What do you each want from this relationship? Wants, needs, limits. Are you both still IN or is he on the OUT? Be real. Be honest.

Get thee to counseling if you both still want to be IN this marriage. Close down as much as possible -- if serious rships already in place, fine, but no dating NEW people! MAKE the time to work on THIS marriage. Time doesn't fall out of the sky. You MAKE it.

Get thee to a mediator or lawyer if you do not find that BOTH partners are IN and not likely to be in time -- and take steps to amicable split. Clear and clean. No dragging it on longer than needed -- set it up to protect the children and get you on your feet then in a career. In a way that is fair and responsible. It takes two to tango and you guys created new life.

It it hard to feel. It is hard to think about. But really? This is not complicated.

Are we healthy and thinking in our right minds? (Get the health checks).

Once we are verified there? Are we IN or are we OUT of this marriage?

Then plan responsibly and ethically based on the answer to that Umbrella Question. You need to know where you stand.

Hang in there. *hugs*

GL!
GalaGirl
 
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I had my last babies over two years ago, but we've had a string of miscarriages in the meantime. I think my partner wants to parent. He talks about wanting to try again and even about having a big family. On the other hand, he easily gets frustrated by them and very rarely takes care of the kids by himself when they are awake.

My husband definitely has deep, deep issues with women that go far beyond the gripes I have in our marriage, but I still want to reconcile.

He says he doesn't want a woman counselor because he worries we would gang up on him and that a man would be better able to see his side. I did look into GLBT-friendly counselors and found a man who has experience with open relationships. I made an appointment for next week, but the counselor will only take new clients who will take evening appointments, which makes my husband resistant. I don't know if he'll go, but I figure even if he backs out, I will go.

I am working on trying to schedule activities outside of the house. My partner resists. He tells me he feels too tired on nights he stays home to take care of the kids. Because I normally put the kids to bed, it takes him a whole lot longer than it would take me, and I feel bad about asking him to do something that takes him hours when it takes me less than 45 minutes. I know eventually they'd find a rhythm, but he always struggled more with parenting than me.

I've had a pretty extensive health check-ups within the last year due to the pregnancy losses. My health isn't perfect. In terms of our relationship, my doctor has told me that I should have physical therapy since my abdominal muscles haven't healed properly from my last pregnancy, and I know that if I did this, my tummy would look better, and perhaps he would find it more attractive. I'm working on making this a priority, even though my husband says he doesn't care and rather just have me stay home. As much as I would like it to make him like me, I would feel better about my body if I did this. My doctor doesn't think I have any mental health issues, though. He is pretty laid back, though. I plan to keep the counseling session even if my husband refuses to go, because even if he doesn't go, I'd be interested if someone who specializes in this kind of thing feels differently.

For a while, I tried to get my husband to get a physical from a doctor (due to the fertility issues). He refused. First, he said he didn't know who he wanted to see, so I found a doctor I thought he'd like. Now he says he's too tired.

All in all, I'm hoping the counseling will help me find the next step. I'd love it if my husband decided to come. He says he still loves me and wants to be in this relationship, but like me, he also says he'd stay in the relationship even if he no longer loved me. I know that he wants a partner to cook, clean, and raise children in exchange for financial stability, and I'm down with that deal, but I don't really know if he's all that interested in a romantic relationship. He says he is, but he's been so resistant to counseling, doc appointments, etc..., it's hard to see that.

Thank you so much all. Before, I just felt so much despair and just stuck. Now, I have some hope that maybe things will change. We'll see. Thanks.
 
You both are insecure about something. Your insecurities magnify his insecurities and vice versa. That means each time you do something because you are insecure, he sees you doing it. When he sees you doing it, he has the experience of feeling his own insecurities even more intensely than he did before he saw you doing it. He reacts to his experience of feeling the increased intensity of his own insecurities by doing something. You see that "something" he does, and it heightens your own feeling of insecurity.

It's a cycle both of you fuel with your reactions to each other. It takes a lot of energy to keep the cycle going. Both of you get exhausted from it.
 
I'm sorry about the miscarriages. *hugs*

I am glad YOU got counseling to help you sort and make these kinds of decisions. That is you trying to take care of your health buckets in mind, body, heart, spirit responsibly.

I apologize in advance if this is Hard to Hear. But I am amazed! Gobsmacked! I worry for your kids.

But I'm seeing a guy who is all talk and no show. He talks big but refuses to deliver when it's time to walk the walk. Finds/makes excuse. NOT responsible. It's all there plain as day in your post.

He TALKS about wanting more babies and about loving you. His ACTIONS show

  • not wanting to care for the kids he already has
  • skipping doc appts, counselor appts.
  • Devaluing your work/ time as the house secretary and making extra work when he fails to keep and you reschedule
  • he doesn't care if he causes you emotional and mental worry/pain about his well being
  • withholds support and nurture in your wanting physical therpay to heal your abs. He lacks concern for your well being in physical health in pregnancy healing or for your mental health in you wanting to look/feel good about yourself in your post pregnancy body.


He says he still loves me and wants to be in this relationship, but like me, he also says he'd stay in the relationship even if he no longer loved me.

Why is it "like me" that both of you are willing to stay with partners you do not love in a loveless relationship? Are you going to be roomies then? Who fuck? And make babies?

Why is he happy to treat you like a sperm recepticle? If flips the other way too -- why are you happy to treat him like the walking sperm donor? Is that kind and responsible to the children?

Never mind "in love" -- is it KIND behavior? Responsible?

Will the children will grow up watching this mess and say "Yah, our parents were roomies who fuck in a loveless relationship. From our model, we have learned how to live without love. Yay us. Our own relationship skills from learning this model are _____? We have been taught being treated poorly for yonks is ok, and ignoring our own health and well being buckets for yonks is ok. So now we have been well groomed to accept abuse in relationships to the nth degree and go lookin' for love in all the wrong places. Much easier prey. Or that it is ok for US to treat other people like this and be abusers. " :eek:

I know that he wants a partner to cook, clean, and raise children in exchange for financial stability. and I'm down with that deal.

That's your business, but you sound like you REALLY want is a full and present partner, with romance. WHY would you be willing to have less than what you really want? And be down with a deal like that? Is that tending your emotional/spiritual health buckets well? Your kid's buckets?

but I don't really know if he's all that interested in a romantic relationship. He says he is, but he's been so resistant to counseling, doc appointments, etc..., it's hard to see that.

It's easy to see. He is not interested at this time, hon. All talk no show. It is the WHY he is not interested.

If he is major depressed and showing signs? Talk to your counselor about involuntary commitment steps a spouse could take to get hubby evaluated and dx'd. If you even are willing to be with a depressed partner? You cannot be with an UNTREATED one like this -- even you don't want that! You posted for help!

Work with counselor to prepare you, then tell your husband he has appt with Dr X at Y time, you are driving or you can taxi together. And if he doesn't keep it, you will take intervention steps. No lame "too tired" excuse crap! Enough with the caca!

Or else he just doesn't give a damn because he likes things how they are just using you with minimal price tag.
He just has to sing a song and he gets all his needs met. He doesn't have to act to provide anything much himself. Just the lowest needs -- food, shelter. Walk away! Run! You deserve to feel alive and happy to the core in mind, body, heart, and spirit. Not just "not be dead." :(

Either way, he isn't giving a damn about you right now, so YOU need to give a damn about you right now. and the kids. All the stronger!

My husband definitely has deep, deep issues with women that go far beyond the gripes I have in our marriage, but I still want to reconcile.

What you WANT may not be what you NEED. Is this husband the healthiest partner person for you and your children that you could have? Would you be healthier in mind, body, heart, spirit without him? The kids?

I'm sorry you are dealing in all this. I do not envy you. :(

But I am glad you got yourself a counselor to help you sort. I hope things continue to look up for you as you move it along in the right direction --move it forward! You at least are sounding less "stuck." Baby steps!

Keeping it real sometimes is very hard to do. But keep it real here. Keep moving it forward. Be brave.

I will hope for the best in your situation. Hang in there.

hugs,
GG
 
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Any man who treats a wife better based on her putting on a mask of happiness is one I would have kicked to the curb a long time ago. After tightly sealing the lawn n leaf bag.

Your husband is failing you and your and his children IMO. He is bearing down to pursue a footloose existence centered on his whims and desires, and he is using psychological pressure on you, punching your insecurity buttons.

You need support in your corner to help you clarify this situation. I'm glad you are seeking it, and proud of you. You deserve better than a loveless marriage to someone who manifests selfish behaviors and puts in so little at the human level.

As GalaGirl said, he signed up for better or worse, etc., to be your partner. He implanted babies in you; he is their father; you are his wife. This is not the time for him to be chasing a stiffie and calling it poly and evading his responsibilities. He's not getting YOUR one single relationship right; how is he going to qualify to do others?

You need to expect, and demand, MORE of him. Not make excuses for his behavior. "It's hard to see...." Not it's not, hon. It's clear as the noses on Mt. Rushmore.

Having said all this rather bluntly, please know that I empathize with you and your situation, send you warmth and caring thoughts, and truly hope you can use everyone's input to hearten yourself. Something in you is looking for a better deal for you and your children; something in you is pushing you to change for the better. That is a good thing. But part of it is going to mean you not excusing things that you may have in the past!

Oh, one last thing? If your husband cannot get the kids tucked in in 45 minutes, and it takes hours, that's a measure in my estimate of how absent he has been. First, because he doesn't know what he's doing (by now he should have this down) and second, because the kids are apparently so starved for his attention, they act out.
 
Sounds like some serious co-dependent and addict behavior too.

He's acting like an addict-and you are acting co-dependent. Actually-it seems to go both ways...

I hope you stick with the counseling.

Allowing someone else to bend your boundaries isn't love.

Love means wanting AND SUPPORTING each other in becoming the best version of yourselves possible.
Not hindering it through apathy or blatant disregard.
 
I'm still processing what's being said, but I guess I'm wondering: How do I know if it's depression or he likes things the way they are? He doesn't seem depressed to me, but he doesn't like to talk about feelings and stuff with me, either. It's so hard for me to see that he's not interested... I don't know how I could tell.

I don't understand the addict comments. Addicted to what?

Thanks for all your time.
 
They are talking about addicted to sex and/or addicted to the natural hormone high produce in New Relationship Energy. It is a brain cascade of hormones that gives you the "Wheee!" of pink fluffy lala clouds.

You can google more about neurobiology and neuroscience of falling in love but here's a brief. The adrenalin, dopamine, seratonin cocktail is a natural high.

If he's addicted to being high all the time - he's addicted and he doesn't want to do his responsibilities. He's like on crack or something. And like with living with a druggie -- do you want to live with someone this messed up all the time? If they make NO steps to break their addiction and come back to earth?

I'm still processing what's being said, but I guess I'm wondering: How do I know if it's depression or he likes things the way they are? He doesn't seem depressed to me, but he doesn't like to talk about feelings and stuff with me, either. It's so hard for me to see that he's not interested... I don't know how I could tell.

Sigh. He's not depressed seeming?

Then I'm starting to red flag. I am worried about you. I know others wonder if it is possible you are codependent. But maybe it is NOT you.

Please take this to heart -- I'm not trying to heap more burdens on you. I know what I write could be Hard to Hear. I feel for you. I would not wish abuse on anyone, and I'm not saying you are being abused. Only you know your situation over there. I sincerely hope you are not. But if you are?

I do not think the abuse victim is actually codependent. He or she is suffering in another way.

Rather than suggest you stand up for yourself at this time then -- I'm going to suggest do NOTHING about him just yet. Stay safe FIRST while you learn about your options and decide what to do next. What do YOU want from life? You only get the one. Just quietly see your counselor on your own for professional help to assess this situation from a person who is actually THERE.

If he is not seeming depressed and he's using/abusing you, standing up when you don't know what is really going on and you are fragile could put you in larger danger. He could decide you are being "uppity" and take you down a few pegs. :(

So take this to highlighter. Be honest if other things on that list are happening to you. Then don't think about it til your appointment. Take it to your counselor to show person other things you may be experiencing. If it is not safe to leave it around the house, don't do it at home. Wait to go print it at the library on your appt day and take it to your counselor to fill out THERE and leave with the counselor.

http://speakoutloud.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Ta-Murphy-2010.pdf

And visit the rest of the website. Start here. Abuse vs healthy relationship.

If you are having trouble SEEING, perhaps it is because you are not able to see objectively any more. Once you live with weird it is very hard to see what is normal any more because YOUR normal has been so weird so long and your vision is constantly being fogged up. Waking up is hard.

You are being very brave in trying to help yourself. Ask your counselor about the cycle of abuse and if this could be happening to you or not.

I'm some internet stranger, not a pro counselor.

But I commend you and salute you
for trying to deal with a hard situation here. You are being brave in trying to get to the bottom of all this, and getting a pro to help you sort. That is HUGE!

Good on you! You are worth this and so much more. You have value, and dignity. You shine on with quiet courage for now.

I will hope you find a brighter and better future.

Namaste,
GG
 
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He tells me he feels too tired on nights he stays home to take care of the kids. Because I normally put the kids to bed, it takes him a whole lot longer than it would take me, and I feel bad about asking him to do something that takes him hours when it takes me less than 45 minutes. I know eventually they'd find a rhythm, but he always struggled more with parenting than me.

he also says he'd stay in the relationship even if he no longer loved me. I know that he wants a partner to cook, clean, and raise children in exchange for financial stability, and I'm down with that deal, but I don't really know if he's all that interested in a romantic relationship. He says he is, but he's been so resistant to counseling, doc appointments, etc..., it's hard to see that.
/QUOTE]

He has the energy to go seek new relationship (anybody sane knows a new relationship takes energy and effort) he's not too tired for the kids, he's too tired to be an adult.
I wonder, since you're content to be the housefrau at home if not that interested in dating him,do you really care about this stuff? You are advocating for him to be a better person. It's hard enough to get a willing human to act right, I imagine its hopeless to get a non committal human to do so...

I don't know if you have other things going on, but your posts dont read that you are that invested in if your marriage lasts past tomorrow, I don't know if you're just defeated or not interested in your relationship anymore.
 
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