Turn ons and turn offs

Ignorant

New member
My partner and I have been together 8 years. He said he had some experiences with men in the past before me but it had been many years. I've had some experiences with women and have had some of these experiences with him involved. Because we indulged in threesomes with women, I asked if he was willing to do the same but with a man. He said sure, but it was always more like sure in theory. Opportunities came and were not taken by his choice. This all came off like he was only mildly bi. My own bi tendencies have waned over the years. I don't envision a full on relationship with a woman and never have. I know this is unfair to female partners and knowing this has diminished my want for intimacy withwomen. It isn't real intimacy its just fucking and I don't want to make anyone regret sharing their body.

So we've been poly 2 years. Ups and downs but mostly good. He meets women and nothing works out for him long term. Meanwhile I could have a date any night I wish so there is a bit of a competitive vibe there but I don't go out more than one night a week with who I've been seeing.

I've know he liked to view shemale and transsexual porn. In the last 2 months, his bi side has been growing more expressive. At this point I am dismayed at my hypocrisy and the emotional response this has brought out in me.

I have never found sex between two men appealing. I never put much thought into it because well, whats it got to do with me? I don't walk around thinking ewww gross when I see two men obviously into each other or kissing. Its just never been something I felt had anything to do with me so I never thought to much about it. My partner and I have never really sought out a threesome with a guy, but I've begun realizing now that I didn not imagine what would happen between my partner and whatever guy would be involved. When I do think about it I am put off by it. I watch some porn too now and then. Its never about two guys getting it on in any way other than incidental. My partner assures me I am his ideal but he is also aware I'm a bit put off by two men having sex so I wonder how much he would flatter me on this subject by not expressing his level of interest in men/men in drag/intersexed people. He has frudian slipped durning sex and said things that only make sense if he is imagining me as a tranny once. It was a hit and hurt me. And I've hurt him trying to talk about being put off by gay male sex. I try to act normal. we;ve been eating each other raw about this subject all week. I tried to show him he is wanted despite my desire for him being dampened; he complains I don't initiate enough so I try to and he was more concerned about pausing the friggin movie that was on! I try again and I get 5 minutes of half assed forplay before he ignores my sex parts entirely and just receives his BJ. We have intercourse for a few minutes and then he internalizes why I didn't get off before he finished! This is killing our sex life. He doesn't feel wanted and I feel inadequate. He feels I think he is gross and I suspect he'd put more effort into this if I did have a dick. UGH! On top of it all I get to feel bad because I am not turned on by everything that turns him on. If I don't get super charged up about his interest in transsexuals or guys, he gets in a twist and says he never should have let me know that side of him and he is just going to shut up about it and not act on it. Why do I have to be a part of the mix if he sees a guy? I haven't been part of the mix for every woman he has dated.
 
First, you DON'T have to be part of the mix if he's seeing a guy.

Ok...Now that I've answered THAT...How about this thought: You said that he has met with women, but it never really works out. Yet, you could have a date any night of the week. Perhaps, he is just feeling that if he were to date a man, he could also have more "play". Just a thought. I mean, there is a man on every street corner who will date and sleep with whoever he can, while women, are (TYPICALLY) more...elusive and harder to get. Make sense?





There are many women on this site (and others) who completely disagree and say that men are just as hard to find as women. The truth is this: If you are looking for a meaningless fuck, yes...Men are more plentiful than women. (We're typically easier than women are because most of us will rise to the occasion and put our most precious member into almost ANYTHING!. LOL) But, to find a real relationship that goes beyond sexual, then it is ALMOST as hard to find a decent man.

*puts on flame suit
 
I think these are issues for a therapist, really. Have you thought about seeking counseling? you don't want resentment to build and it seems that you're both at loggerheads trying to talk about it among just you two. A third party's viewpoint could help.
 
Well Ignorant, your post is a pretty good summary of what culture does to men and why so many men generally hide their bi curiosities until the right opportunity surfaces.

Most guys are afraid of exactly what you describe - that someone they love or care a lot about is a homophobe ! And that showing ANY attraction/curiosity to the same sex - even if it's strictly for sexual variation - is going to start a landslide of negative feelings & associations. One that will destroy any attraction they might have for you.

All I can say is that I feel you should do some analysis on your homophobic feelings. See if you can better understand where they came from - and if it's in your best interest to hold on to them. Human sexuality is very broad and a majority of people - male or female - have some bisexual tendencies. Whether those curiosities get explored or not depends on the person and their situation. But if they don't, they can become hidden points of resentment if it's felt that someone else is the roadblock.

But it seems the genie is now out of the bottle and whether your relationship will grow or deteriorate will now depend on you !

GS
 
Hmmm, this thread is interesting to me because my gf and I are both pansexual and she is male to female transgender, while I am a cis-gendered woman with genderqueer tendencies. I also talk to a lot of bi-curious men on ok cupid, since I am listed as bi there.

Many of these bi curious men tell me they'd like to have their first gay experience in a MFM, or MMF 3way. I guess it's a way to have comfort in the usual (sex with a woman) while exploring something new (and rather forbidden in our culture).

Just off the top of my head, to be loving towards your husband, I suggest you 2 look at some real gay male porn together, so you can get used to seeing men kissing, caressing, giving each other blowjobs and anal sex. After all, you've probably seen women giving bjs and receiving anal sex. 2 guys doing it is the same thing... just with less boobs and more body hair. ;) :p

Perhaps your h would like to receive anal sex from you? Many men adore the prostate stimulation. You 2 could even shop for some toys and/or a strapon for you to wear, so he can suck "your cock" or get his ass fucked. You might get really turned on by his response and the intensity of his orgasms from that kind of sex.
 
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Alright I'll state again. I've seen men being affectionate in front of me without issue. I've seen them kiss; it doesn't phase me. I've never thought it had anything to do with me. Its two guys exploring their interest in sex with men and how their bodies feel together. THAT doesn't bother me at all but I didn't get off on it either. like seeing a mime performance and learnig there is a school for miming. Not being interested and not seeking out more ways to incorporate miming into my life does not equal thinking miming is wrong gross or immoral.

What I am put off by is the idea of being used as a springboard for him and another guy like I'm a blow up doll in the middle with semi to non interesting parts but useful in the easing of any awkwardness they might have about being intimate with another man.

I'm his partner and at one point, his monogamous partner as he was mine. He was the one who wanted poly and I found a way to accept that. I finally do and now I'm thrown back into the fire of am I good enough? thoughts. How would I ever be comfortable with being dehumanized and used by him and someone I don't love just so they could feel less awkward about homosexual sex? I do not have to be used in that way for him to be with women and I would have just as big an issue, be just as put off by being used that way. Its why I don't have sex with women anymore. I cannot manage their long term needs and feelings so I refrain from potentially hurting someone in a way I see to be gross and off putting. I began to see our little threesomes with women to be very little about who they were as a person but all about this extra body for our pleasure. They would get in their feelings and we barely registered their distress. I should want to be in this position just to nto be called a homophobe?!?

His awkwardness was not something I caused. It was in his teens. Schoolmate judgements and being a target for violence for speaking up as a bi person. He hid it and down played it to me for years until recently. I did not cause his fear of rejection and I don't think I need to become a tool for him to use get around the past. What I do fear in this is that he has been hiding and repressing it for so long that once its all out in the open and accepted I will only then know the truth of how much or how little he has been enjoying playing straight. It is playing on my insecurities in the way many people in poly deal with even with hetero relationships only I don't have the plumbing to measure up. This is making me not enjoy being intimate with him as much as usual and that only causes him to think I'm rejecting him.
 
I'm just wondering if you can put your sex with him on hold for awhile. Sometimes having sex, just to prove a point or to be falsely close adds more distance and more confusion and resentment. It sounds like some heavy talking using a lot of empathy, kind words, feelings and requests would suit you more.... shut the movie off and talk.

He needs to start dating men I think.... you don't need to be involved in that. If it doesn't interest you then don't be involved. It sounds like you told him it repulses you in some way. So why not take it back. You could say, "look honey, I had never thought of man sex before and it quite alarmed me and the thought of it didn't make me comfortable. You go have man sex all you want, I just am not interested in participating.... I would be more interested in seeing that you are happy and your needs are being met on your own." That way he knows you love him, knows you are not going to be involved but are there to be a rock while he figures out how to deal with the prospect of finding a man.

Having a partner sometimes means rising to the occasion and helping through their issues. This is a big one for him. You can help him simply by smiling, being calm, not reading into it so much and being firm about your boundaries. The other part is to listen and reflect what he says. This is for him to figure out is seems, there is a history there for him. What a gift it would be if you were there as he dealt with this. It sounds like its coming to a head with all the porn he watches, what he has expressed to you etc.... you have become wrapped up in that for some reason and that is not necessarily healthy. You are not part of that, he is an what his desire is. He is independent of you and you of him. You can observe each others life and love them regardless, but no one can take on your issues and self work for you.
 
I think you should be able to express to him everything you said in your last post. Those are very important and valid points you make. You do not want to feel used (although perhaps someday you might eventually like the idea of participating, if it's your own choice to do so). You obviously would rather have meaningful relationships than recreational sex. He has been holding back his feelings, you are imagining how that has flavored your entire relationship thus far. All this non-communication is eroding the good you have, and wearing you down. The two of you need to stop hiding how you're feeling in order to heal.
 
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How would I ever be comfortable with being dehumanized and used by him and someone I don't love just so they could feel less awkward about homosexual sex? ...I began to see our little threesomes with women to be very little about who they were as a person but all about this extra body for our pleasure. They would get in their feelings and we barely registered their distress. I should want to be in this position just to nto be called a homophobe?!?
.

No. No one should be using anyone else for sex. I suggested you 2 could look at gay male porn and perhaps do something with you playing at penetrating him. Bringing you into a sex scene with another to be used as a bridge when you aren't cool with the idea, and just feel like a piece of meat, sounds very unhealthy indeed. Does he really want to just use you that way?

Personally, I'd find it hot to be with a male lover and watch him fuck another guy... but I know I would be able to have fun with it and not feel excluded.
 
Hey Ignorant,

I think you may have reacted a little defensively to my prev post (?) and the term 'homophobic'. May have struck a nerve ?
My post wasn't really directed at you personally. It was more a general comment about the state of society and how things take turns like this.


.............I've seen men being affectionate in front of me without issue. I've seen them kiss; it doesn't phase me. I've never thought it had anything to do with me. Its two guys exploring their interest in sex with men and how their bodies feel together. THAT doesn't bother me at all but I didn't get off on it either. like seeing a mime performance and learnig there is a school for miming. Not being interested and not seeking out more ways to incorporate miming into my life does not equal thinking miming is wrong gross or immoral.

Not that it matters, but just food for thought and your own introspection.....

It's telling when you can observe something and as long as it's not really connected to you in some way be indifferent - but when it comes too close to home it invokes a reaction. That makes a clear statement. No point in trying to argue it with yourself or anyone else. It's just the reaction that came from you naturally. Some disgust. It's who you are internally at this point. That's fine. Unless you feel it isn't !


Ignorant said:
What I am put off by is the idea of being used as a springboard for him and another guy like I'm a blow up doll in the middle with semi to non interesting parts but useful in the easing of any awkwardness they might have about being intimate with another man.

Sorry - I gotta cry "justification" on this one :)
And that because you have repressed bisexual tendencies yourself - you just simply don't understand the dynamic. That's ok too. But call a spade a spade.

Ignorant said:
......... He was the one who wanted poly and I found a way to accept that. I finally do and now I'm thrown back into the fire of am I good enough? thoughts. How would I ever be comfortable with being dehumanized and used by him and someone I don't love just so they could feel less awkward about homosexual sex?

Personally, I doubt this is the case. I doubt he's uncomfortable (awkward) - except in your presence - BECAUSE of your attitude and reaction. I don't think he should do that - to either of you. Just go explore by himself and enjoy it.

And just so you may understand.......

Multi partner sex is not about 'using' some central person(s) - and yet it IS. Because in a fashion - everyone "uses" everyone when the mood suits because I think the biggest attraction to multipartner sex is that options become possible (sexually) that are simply impossible any other way. So the additional partners could be looked on as tools of the objective. But everyone is both tool and material :) I think getting all tangled up in philosophical points who's the user and who's the useee is nothing more than a negative distraction. It misses the whole point of it !


In any case, we're getting off track.

If you are turned off by a male who likes to play with other males (as a lover of yours) then you have two choices............

Adopt a DADT policy and stick your head in the sand. Probably too late for that - but in the future........

Take an honest look at both bisexuality and multi-partner combinations and see if there's anything erotic in there for you - or not. There may not be. So in the future, that needs to be a question that comes out early in potential relationship conversations. It's a big trigger point for you.

Hope you figure something out............

GS
 
I began to see our little threesomes with women to be very little about who they were as a person but all about this extra body for our pleasure. They would get in their feelings and we barely registered their distress. I should want to be in this position just to nto be called a homophobe?!?

You wouldn't be in that position though. You would be in his position when there were two females. You don't seem to think HE was bing used by the two of you during these times. You feel SHE was.
Therefore, the equivalent would mean the male partner would be used. Not you.

I notice though that in both cases a female becomes the used person. It seems to be less about who is "extra" and more about who is male and who isn't. I'm just throwing that out there, because maybe psychologically you feel sex for a woman is a more vulnerable act, and that she's more likely to be used than a male?

At any rate, if you don't want to be part of a threesome anymore, don't be. If he wants to have sex with males, you don't need to be around. If you do decide to do it, you can make conditions, such as have it be about you and have you be in charge, which could help you feel less used.

Honestly, from the post I read it seemed more about feelings about homosexuality, but more of a general feeling that males were threatening, and two of them would mean you were used even more, when an extra female meant she'd be used instead. I'm female and I'm not used unless I want to be, and I use men if they want to be used.

I think you can explain to him how you feel the way you did here, or even have him read your posts. A lot of people seem to put more thoughts into creating posts that explain the whole situation than explaining things to their partners. Maybe because you have to explain the whole thing from the start. Either way, it could be insightful for him.
 
I don't envision a full on relationship with a woman and never have. I know this is unfair to female partners and knowing this has diminished my want for intimacy with women. It isn't real intimacy its just fucking and I don't want to make anyone regret sharing their body.

I'm curious why you think this is unfair? Like other posters, I wonder if it is because you are only interested in sex with love at this time. However, there are people who seem genuinely happy in various arrangements of sex, love, and committment.

So we've been poly 2 years. Ups and downs but mostly good. He meets women and nothing works out for him long term. Meanwhile I could have a date any night I wish so there is a bit of a competitive vibe there but I don't go out more than one night a week with who I've been seeing.

Again, I'm curious. I don't think you would have said this if it wasn't important to you, but I'm not sure I understand how it is related to the rest of the issue, and I would like to understand. Would you tell more?

I've know he liked to view shemale and transsexual porn. In the last 2 months, his bi side has been growing more expressive. At this point I am dismayed at my hypocrisy and the emotional response this has brought out in me.

It sounds like you are frustrated with yourself, and disappointed in your reaction.

My partner assures me I am his ideal but he is also aware I'm a bit put off by two men having sex so I wonder how much he would flatter me on this subject by not expressing his level of interest in men/men in drag/intersexed people.... This is killing our sex life. He doesn't feel wanted and I feel inadequate. He feels I think he is gross and I suspect he'd put more effort into this if I did have a dick. UGH! On top of it all I get to feel bad because I am not turned on by everything that turns him on. If I don't get super charged up about his interest in transsexuals or guys, he gets in a twist and says he never should have let me know that side of him and he is just going to shut up about it and not act on it. Why do I have to be a part of the mix if he sees a guy? I haven't been part of the mix for every woman he has dated.

I get the understanding from this and more of your writing that you feel most uncomfortable when you believe that there are expectations on you to enjoy something that you don't find interesting. Are you also afraid that you (or your huband's interest in women altogether) will be replaced by his interest in men?

Something else I notice, is that you mention having gotten used to the idea and practice of polyamory, and now you feel thrown by the idea that your husband may also be interested in women. I wonder, since these seem to be related for you, if it is not so much about his interest in men, as it is about the change process. Though change is inevitable, we all experience it differently at different times in our lives. I have noticed that what is desirable for one partner is not always easy for the other, even if they can see the happiness that may come of it at the end. Do you feel tired? What nurture do you need from your husband in order to deal with this change? Can you make specific requests to him?

Much love to you as you figure all this out together.
 
You wouldn't be in that position though. You would be in his position when there were two females. You don't seem to think HE was bing used by the two of you during these times. You feel SHE was.
Therefore, the equivalent would mean the male partner would be used. Not you.

I notice though that in both cases a female becomes the used person. It seems to be less about who is "extra" and more about who is male and who isn't. I'm just throwing that out there, because maybe psychologically you feel sex for a woman is a more vulnerable act, and that she's more likely to be used than a male?

At any rate, if you don't want to be part of a threesome anymore, don't be. If he wants to have sex with males, you don't need to be around. If you do decide to do it, you can make conditions, such as have it be about you and have you be in charge, which could help you feel less used.

Honestly, from the post I read it seemed more about feelings about homosexuality, but more of a general feeling that males were threatening, and two of them would mean you were used even more, when an extra female meant she'd be used instead. I'm female and I'm not used unless I want to be, and I use men if they want to be used.

I think you can explain to him how you feel the way you did here, or even have him read your posts. A lot of people seem to put more thoughts into creating posts that explain the whole situation than explaining things to their partners. Maybe because you have to explain the whole thing from the start. Either way, it could be insightful for him.

I think what you're not seeing is that I've worn that Bi tag very lightly if at all; women entering OUR bed were being emotionally held at arms length and were not invited simply so I could get my woman fix and still retain my bi status. I don't care what tag someone gives me for what act. It wasn't about a woman's body to me just that it was aother body. Two bodies for me. Two bodies for him. Both he and I already with an emotional investment leaving them - what in regards to their emotions?

Because my partner has faced physical threat for his sexuality and hid it for so long, it IS about the male body specifically. It isn't just about another body in the mix; he has a specific craving. We did not invite women because I had a craving for sex with a woman but a craving for another body in the mix. It is why I felt we were using them and felt bad about doing so if deeper feelings developed on their part. If I'm tossed in the mix for him and a guy I would be so in the same capacity as liquid courage because I have no craving for the sex that goes on between two men. At least when I wear a strap on for my partner I have a role to play albeit the tofurkey version of what my partner has been craving.
 
you just simply don't understand the dynamic.

Did you notice the username?

Personally, I doubt this is the case. I doubt he's uncomfortable (awkward) - except in your presence.

Why are you saying I'm the reason the reason he has been repressing this for 15 years? I have only known him for 8. If he is only awkward about this around me, why does he want me to participate?

I don't feel I've earned the bigot tag you need me to wear for speaking up about my own awkwardness in hte mix of something he feels awkward about and has for long before he knew me.

But you're right, it isn't worth arguing about.
 
I'm curious why you think this is unfair? Like other posters, I wonder if it is because you are only interested in sex with love at this time. However, there are people who seem genuinely happy in various arrangements of sex, love, and committment.

Because it has always ended in a crash and burn situation. Not just with them feeling hurt and expressing it but also in acting out angrily or petty. If not for their reaction it might feel less unfair. Clearly I, we for the most part upset them.

Again, I'm curious. I don't think you would have said this if it wasn't important to you, but I'm not sure I understand how it is related to the rest of the issue, and I would like to understand. Would you tell more?

It was to colorfully infer that he is feeling sensitive about his experiences in poly lately. He feels down on himself and compares my experiences in poly to his in a success VS lack of manner.

It sounds like you are frustrated with yourself, and disappointed in your reaction.

Yes. But we are working through it better and more compassionately.


I get the understanding from this and more of your writing that you feel most uncomfortable when you believe that there are expectations on you to enjoy something that you don't find interesting. Are you also afraid that you (or your huband's interest in women altogether) will be replaced by his interest in men?

Something else I notice, is that you mention having gotten used to the idea and practice of polyamory, and now you feel thrown by the idea that your husband may also be interested in women.

? I've known he was into women for about 8 years now and I've met about a handful of his ex GFs. I'm dealing with getting use to his interest in men.

I wonder, since these seem to be related for you, if it is not so much about his interest in men, as it is about the change process. Though change is inevitable, we all experience it differently at different times in our lives. I have noticed that what is desirable for one partner is not always easy for the other, even if they can see the happiness that may come of it at the end. Do you feel tired? What nurture do you need from your husband in order to deal with this change? Can you make specific requests to him?

Much love to you as you figure all this out together.

This is what I'm figuring out
 
Because it has always ended in a crash and burn situation. Not just with them feeling hurt and expressing it but also in acting out angrily or petty. If not for their reaction it might feel less unfair. Clearly I, we for the most part upset them.
That's too bad. I wish positive experiences for you.


? I've known he was into women for about 8 years now and I've met about a handful of his ex GFs. I'm dealing with getting use to his interest in men.

Sorry, I think my grammar was muddled there. I was wondering if you were afraid that his interest in men might replace his interest in women, yourself included. But I think I understand what you're saying.
 
If he is only awkward about this around me, why does he want me to participate?
Why does he want you to participate? Extra bodies again? Or is there more for him? It sounds like maybe you are not clear on this.... again back to Seasnail question... are you worried he will leave you for men?
 
Why does he want you to participate? Extra bodies again? Or is there more for him? It sounds like maybe you are not clear on this.... again back to Seasnail question... are you worried he will leave you for men?

Yes a bit due to him repressing it for so long. That he hasn't been up front with me about his interests for many years makes it hard to know if he is or isn't still doing that to some extent.

I only asked GSpirit why my partner wants me to participate if I'm the sole source of his anxiety because that poster seems intent on seeing what they want rather than something closer to the situation at hand.
 
It is hard when a partner comes out after years of hiding their interest in the same sex.

You seem to be wondering, is he bi or is he gay? Does he still want me or is it really men he was wanting all along? Will he want to throw himself into sex with men and ignore my sexual and emotional needs?

You can't know this unless you ask him and get some answers. Hopefully he does love you and still desires you. Extremely honest and respectful conversations are definitely needed here. This is understandably very difficult and unsettling for you!

A queer friendly therapist might be useful. This is a fairly common scenario in our culture, where men often feel compelled to hide their homosexual feelings and take a wife as a "beard." Hopefully your partner is bi and really craves sex/love with both you and any prospective male partners.
 
It wasn't about a woman's body to me just that it was another body. Two bodies for me. Two bodies for him. Both he and I already with an emotional investment leaving them - what in regards to their emotions?

Sounds to me like it would be the same if that other body was male. You're right that I don't get it. You say for you it's just another body, and it didn't matter that it was a female. So another body again, male this time, should be the same, right?

Because my partner has faced physical threat for his sexuality and hid it for so long, it IS about the male body specifically. It isn't just about another body in the mix; he has a specific craving. [...] If I'm tossed in the mix for him and a guy I would be so in the same capacity as liquid courage because I have no craving for the sex that goes on between two men.

You're not "tossed in". You're the one he has a relationship with. Anyone ELSE is the addition, not you. He wants you there, presumably for the same reasons you wanted him there when there was another woman involved. Just because the additional person he wants, he doesn't want for the same reasons you did or do doesn't mean he doesn't want you for the same reasons he wanted you in your FMF threesomes.

He's attracted to males, but he's also attracted to females. That you have no interest in watching them together only means that you have leverage to say that if you participate at all, you want to always be involved, and never be just watching.
 
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