Help wanted

scout989

New member
All right, so I suck at thread titles :rolleyes:

I could use some advice or some new thoughts on my situation.

I apologize for the really long post, but I'm kinda talking this out to myself while I write it...

My wife, who is significantly more comfortable being poly than I am, has crossed boundaries that we set up multiple times in the last few years. Specifically, she has been physically involved with other men without discussing it with me first, which has always been a part of the different ways we have set up boundaries for poly in our relationship. Her reason is pretty much always the same: "Well, I just got caught up in the moment, feeling so loved, that the moment was so perfect..."

As I said, I am not all that comfortable with poly. I have been trying to become more comfortable, because I think that I would really love the polyamourous lifestyle once I find ways to deal with my jealousy issues.

Aha! Yep, I have jealousy issues. And she has repeatedly crossed that boundary, which in non-poly circles is typically called "cheating." Because of my past history, crossing that boundary is a pretty big deal to me. After the first time, we talked about that being a big deal to me- so it's not exactly like she didn't know the last few times.

This recurrent uprising of extremely negative feelings pretty much embodies what I don't like about poly. Though I am by no means laying all of this at my wife's door, because I haven't been in a good mental or emotional state to be able to do much work on myself, there is no doubt that what she has done has contributed to my lack of progress in becoming more comfortable in poly.

So, the current situation is this: After her most recent episode, I asked her to back off from being in active romantic relationships with anyone. She is willing to do that for a while, at least. If I were to make that a permanent thing- we are both trying to figure out what that would mean for us. She says that poly is part of who she is,and I don't know that we would be able to be together if I decide that I am not able/willing to be poly in my relationship with her. Meanwhile, I am trying to figure out if there is any way that we can set up poly in our relationship in such a way that I can feel sure that my boundaries will be respected. I don't even know what it would look like- a more workable set of boundaries, a better way of communicating with each other- I'm stuck. Nothing has occurred to me so far, so I'd love to hear anything from those who have a little (or a lot) more experience than me.
 
Hiya Scout,

Sorry to hear about the issues you're having. I'd certainly agree that the situation isn't doing you any favors in your work on jealousy or being comfy with poly life. It's probably a good idea for you two to kick back for a bit and see if you can can work together on things, starting with the most important. Trust and communication are essential keys to working through jealously, at least that is how I see it. So, that would be where I'd suggest you two start. In the longer term, you're going to have to rely on that trust, so make it nice and strong before entering the poly world again. From there, start again with baby steps, ones which can help you with the jealousy and maintain the trust. When you have that pretty well handled, you may find that you no longer need the boundaries you once did.
 
How long have you two been poly?


Have you two been poly the entire relationship, or a part of it?


How did the first poly conversation happen?


What were ongoing conversations about it like?


What are the boundaries that you two agreed on?


How is she breaking them? I know you talked a little about this already. Go into more detail if there is more.
 
@Avatar: That sounds like really good advice. I'm not sure if it will work for us- I'll have to think about it some more- but I appreciate the ideas!

How long have you two been poly?
Off and on for 4ish years.


Have you two been poly the entire relationship, or a part of it?
We first tried bringing poly into our relationship after we were married.

How did the first poly conversation happen?
We had been hanging out with some poly people, and been introduced to the idea. Our marriage wasn't going really well then; I basically told her poly might be a good idea because it seemed I wasn't going tobe able to fulfill all her needs.


What were ongoing conversations about it like?
Subsequent conversations have been along steadily improving lines. We have worked hard to be healthier people, and worked on our marriage quite a lot. As we got better, our conversations shifted away from "I have to have someone else to be happy," to being more like "It's good to have more love in our lives."

Currently, my stance is that polyamory is a beautiful way of life and I really wish I could get healthy enough to have it. Her viewpoint is that she is poly, and that her life consists of sharing and spreading love.


What are the boundaries that you two agreed on?
We've had a few different versions of boundaries, ranging from a pretty strict "Everything has to be equal and reciprocal" (i.e. if you want to have sex with this other person, you have to okay me having sex with the person I want to) at the beginning, to our most recent- we tell each other if we're going to be dating/seeing/intimate with someone else, we tell each other if we have sex with someone else. In other words, there are two information checkpoints- beginning of a relationship and the point where STIs become a factor.


How is she breaking them? I know you talked a little about this already. Go into more detail if there is more.
I guess I don't know what you're asking for here. Details on what kind of physical intimacy? Not necessary, since- in the context of our relationship- the deal is that pretty much anything beyond kissing isn't going to go over much better than having sex. What other kind of details do you want?
 
Not to worry, not to worry. Not all advice is good or correctly applies to a given situation. :)
 
I guess I don't know what you're asking for here. Details on what kind of physical intimacy?
No. I'm looking for as much information as possible about how you two are talking. Trying to learn the history that leads up to the issue. The more information the people on this forum have about your situation, the more likely someone will be able to help.



You are pointing to some important information when you said the words below. Tell me more about your marriage not going well.
Our marriage wasn't going really well then; I basically told her poly might be a good idea because it seemed I wasn't going to be able to fulfill all her needs
 
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Oh, that's easy. I was an alcoholic (well, still am, obviously), and I wasn't taking care of anyone's needs- while she was taking care of everyone's. Until I figured out how to start breaking that codependent cycle, that was the best way I knew to help her get her needs met.

I'm happy to give the info you want, but it's hard to know what of the jumble of stuff in my head would actually be useful!
 
Breaking boundaries is cheating-even in poly circles. ;)

Breaking boundaries breaks trust-which means having to re-EARN trust and that almost always comes with lost privileges for a period of time whilst re-earning them...
 
Sure! But, since you seem to want a lot of info, this will be the long version ;)

I was a budding alcoholic for a long time, but it didn't get to be serious until after I met my wife. I was working construction, and I hurt my back badly, at a time when I didn't have insurance. Since I couldn't afford an MRI and the PT or surgery that would then follow, I chose to self-medicate my pain with alcohol, in large amounts.

I dealt with chronic back pain for 4+ years, getting deeper into alcoholism the whole way. At the time when we first discussed poly, I had been pretty much a leech on the life of my wife and her kids for at least a year. I spent most of my time either drunk or hungover, and neither one of those states is conducive to meeting responsibilities- which I didn't. Meanwhile my wife worked 15-hour days, usually coming home to a house that was worse than how she left it, a drunk husband, and unhappy kids.

I think it is understandable that she wasn't exactly happy with this situation. She had needs- such as for a person to be a partner with her, someone who would make her life and home better by being there. I was not that person. She also needed people who were kind and loving, and I was also not that person.

Despite all that, I still loved my wife dearly. With the idea of poly fresh in my mind, I decided that it made perfect sense that she should look for her happiness wherever she could find it. I knew then (and know now) that her capacity for love is such that she can love whoever she chooses, without detracting from her love for me. So I told her so.

I am by no means a perfectly non-codependent person now, but I have done a lot of work since then. I am a partner to her, and I (at least try) to make her life and home better by being in it. There aren't the same unmet needs. Now, the reasons for poly are different.
 
You're absent in your marriage. You're using poly as a replacement for the "you" that isn't there. You think by doing this you are no longer absent. You think by doing this you are being a responsible husband. Absent is not a way of taking responsibility. You did not become poly. You stepped out of your marriage altogether. Your wife is trying to live her life in your absence. The solution is to step back in. You can still be poly, you just have to be in your marriage to do it. The experience you are calling jealousy is coming from the fact that you are watching her live her life from a place outside of her life.


This is why I need the history. To see things like this. If you look only at the poly, you can easily miss the bigger picture.
 
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@snowmelt: I think you misread. That time? The time when I was an absent husband? That was 4 years ago. Reread the last part of my post. I am now a full and loving partner to my wife. I am still an alcoholic (and always will be), but I have drastically changed who I am in the world and in the lives of those around me.

Any more questions?
 
@snowmelt: I think you misread. That time? The time when I was an absent husband? That was 4 years ago. Reread the last part of my post. I am now a full and loving partner to my wife. I am still an alcoholic (and always will be), but I have drastically changed who I am in the world and in the lives of those around me.

Any more questions?

Ah, that answered the timeline question I had. BTW, good job on the turn around and recovery.
 
In my universe? You are out at three strikes. This is chronic cheating not just agreement breaking. I frown on this. :mad:

So I apologize if the rest of my post sounds brusque. This kind of thing really is UGH to me. I feel very strongly about the concept of "Play like a Jedi. Not like a Muppet, or just do not play here with me!"

Without TRUTH telling, and clear communication and keeping of promises -- a good polyship just will NOT fly.

If she's not at 3 strikes? Renegotiate the boundary. As it stands she clearly cannot be trusted to keep it. So change it to something she CAN honor that you both can agree to as fair for you both. Then she can keep it, you can relax and not feel ugh and devalued each time it is broken. Perhaps you can tweak something like this to suit you both in your situation.

Example:

It is not unreasonable to ask you to STOP putting my emotional health, mental health, physical health, and spiritual health and well being thru the wringer just because you choose to follow your immediate pleasure and not honor our previous agreement. This is not showing me any respect and denies me dignity.

Proposed new agreement:
  • Carry condoms at all times. USE. Both with ME and with your Others. End of fluid bonding.
  • I prefer to know before hand. If you cannot stop yourself in the heat of the moment, put on a condom, and tell me ASAP this happened. But I prefer to know first. Do not abuse your get out of jail free card here -- you can use it (how many times? I gave only 1 card for fubars.)
  • I have the right to know who I may catch things from! Condoms can fail or break.
  • Give me the right to know my own sex health business. Give me that respect and dignity.

If you can agree this will be the new deal? Let's go with that.

Keep it up? Keep breaking agreements? We have to (Make new agreement? Close? Break Up? Pick SOMETHING for your consequence. What is your LIMIT?)

Keep it real, dude. Cheating is NOT cool and that's just not gonna work if all you end up doing is moving lines to enable her to cheat easier.

If she's not gonna play like a Jedi, why go there? ETHICAL polyamory, please!

GG
 
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I do have a couple of things to add. I just read GalaGirls post. If this really is just about dishonesty then I agree with the boundaries she is talking about. It's up to you to enforce them, and then decide for yourself if you still want the marriage if she continues to break them.

You two had a rocky start with the poly, and you mentioned codependence. That's a heavy load. I'm still very curious about what is causing her to be dishonest - if it's related to that rocky start. Only she really knows that.

If you want the marriage and you're still willing to work on it with her, and you two find what is really going on with her to cause her to cheat, and she is willing to look at her own behavior (a lot of and's), you two may be able to get beyond this quickly without the stress of wondering if and when the next time is she will cheat. That would be a very good thing. It's up to you if you want to talk more about this with me. You'll have to be willing to talk about it in depth.

If so, let me know anything else you think is relevant, and we will take it from there another time. If not, I hope you get what you need from others here.

It's time for me to log off.
 
"Well, I just got caught up in the moment, feeling so loved, that the moment was so perfect..."
She says that poly is part of who she is,and I don't know that we would be able to be together if I decide that I am not able/willing to be poly in my relationship with her.

There was some other thing I wanted to quote but I can't find it.
GalaGirl has great advice as usual. I'll repeat that being poly doesn't mean "I get to do what I want if it breaks agreements we made" Some people DO it that way, but then they don't have much business making agreements they don't feel like keeping. After the second time somebody breaks an agreement with me (barring the big ones), they (or I) need to have the self awareness to ask for a renegotiation - it doesn't do anybody any good to keep an agreement that isn't working so it keeps damaging the relationship .

I'd be fearful that her "getting caught up in the moment" would mean safe sex agreements wouldn't be upheld either. It is nice she is being honest after she breaks agreements...I guess? From what you said you aren't reading as jealous as all, I have cheating in my past and that is something that's a trigger for me too - and as she seems to feel entitled to "spread the love" but not be sensitive and caring to an existing partner, I am wondering if there are other things she does like that that in your relationship dynamic that don't have to do with poly.

Why does she put herself in situations where she will break agreements, knowing she is prone to break them?

I am guessing there is something bigger going on, maybe she is punishing you for something, the difficult times you had in the past. Maybe she didn't expect you to be OK with her seeing other people, and she is pushing things farther and farther with the idea you will break at some point. Maybe she really needs to sit down, be really honest, and ask to renegotiate from scratch. I don't hear you asking her not to be poly, I hear you asking her to keep agreements. She seems to be kind of actively making sure you are not comfortable with poly, or at least doing poly with her.

My guess is that your only chance of minimizing broken agreements is to go with GalaGirl's suggestions - so at your bottom line, are you OK giving up anything that even hints at trying to "control her freedom" or do you need certain actions to feel safe sexually, and feel able to trust your partner? Do you think you can have both those things?
 
I think you need to talk seriously to your wife...Maybe Poly is not for you....I know all the feelings that you are going through - and I too have been hurt many many times and had my boundaries crossed many times by my husband....it is the nature of the beast i think.

Perhaps working on it slowly - do you know of these other people she is seeing? Have you met them?

I wish you happiness and balance in this relationship - as I hope for the same as mine :)
 
I agree that it is still cheating. She is using "being poly" as an excuse for bad behavior. Being poly means honesty and trust above all, period. She isn't fulfilling either of those criteria.

I think you need to start from scratch, maybe wipe the slate clean, redefine your boundaries, and if she continues to disrespect you by not following those boundaries, then it is time to decide what to do long term. You can't continue to be treated like crap. :(
 
@all: I plan to spend some time talking more with my wife about the reasons behind her actions. That sounds like a good place to start.

@Anneintherain: I am most definitely prone to jealousy issues- I'm just not really focusing on that in this discussion. Suffice it to say that I have jealousy issues even when she keeps my boundaries. I just recognize that those are my issues- and am now looking for effective ways of dealing with them. I'm not trying to put those on her.

As to why she keeps putting herself in these kind of situations: we've had that conversation. I don't think there was ever any clear answer. That would be a good topic to bring back up now.

@newbie1: I am indeed seriously considering that poly is not for me... or maybe not for this relationship. That is part of what I need to figure out here- if it is indeed "the nature of the beast" I think I'm pretty much done.

@Skye: I'm pretty sure I can't just wipe the slate clean like it was nothing. It's going to take time, work, and honesty to get there. However, I agree that we might need to start from scratch when we get there.
 
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