When is it right to discuss other potential partners and how?

I go through a stage when I meet a new partner where I don't have eyes for anyone else and I feel super lovey dovey towards any existing partner(s) I have. The first time I felt like this, I didn't have any existing partners, and I was worried in case it meant I was monogamous and just needed to meet someone I really liked. Not worried about being monogamous, per se, but worried in case I had started a poly relationship under unintentionally false pretenses. Experience taught me that I only feel more fondly towards any existing partners I have when I feel this for someone new and I quickly want to routine my life in a way that will allow me to have both people in it. That's my NRE.
 
I feel in my heart I do have the capacity to love more than one person and maintain those relationships healthily, but I want to reassure anyone I date that I will never put other partners needs first at the expense of theirs. So in this instance I wouldn't ever let my feelings for J (or any other girl I might meet) affect the love I have with S or the time I have with her.

Ummm, yeah... that's called "couple privilege" and not a very nice way to treat anyone else you get involved with. Do a search here for the term and read a few threads about it to understand.
 
See I took that to mean that the same would go for any new partners: he wouldn't put S's needs first at the expense of the new person's.
 
Both :)

I definitely have that capacity to love two people healthily and would treat both separately (but equally) and be thankful and love them for their unique points. I would recognise them as both different with different needs, but would never let the needs of one be fulfilled at the needs of the other.

Time together as a couple is a definite need for any relationship - and in this instance I wouldn't let my time with a new partner come at the expense of time spent with S.
 
Time is a difficult one. Most people work sort of Mon-Fri 8-6, pretty much leaving weekends as their only free time. Especially if you have things to attend to as well. I've had to consider previously that I would have to cut the time I spend with one partner (which was only on weekends) if I wanted to see this new guy (who I could also only see on weekends) and he understood that because he knew the same might be true for him when he met someone down the line.

Luckily, my current partner works from home and is self employed so he sets his own hours. We do spend lots of time together on weekends but that isn't the only time we can spend together. We would see each other slightly less if/when either of us find a new partner, but we are prepared for that and know we will have to adapt accordingly.
 
Hmmm although I said I was fine with mono I've done some proper thinking on this today and I don't think I've ever had a relationship which was genuinely monogamous and successful.

1st long term relationship - lasted 1 1/2 years) We had a threesome with her best friend, the two girls also brought different aspects into their friendship and I could see that they were good for each other and that the friend was a calming influence, therefore she was good for us. I was also many of the things she always said she wanted in a man. I dreamed for a long while about becoming a triad, however this was long before I even knew about poly and had no idea even how to approach this subject.

2nd long term relationship - lasted 3 years) Our sex life pretty much completely broke down and we became like best friends who were in a relationship. Conversations relating to sex usually went like this...

I come on to her
She says no
I back off
She bursts into tears
"What is it?"
"I don't know why I always say no"
"OK, well lets try to work through things - are you happy and fulfilled in our sex life? Yes. Do you love me? Yes. Do you fancy me? yes. Do you lust me in a really primal way? yes. Well then what am I missing?"
More tears
She would then come on to me
I would turn her down, I don't want to have sex under those circumstances!!
Eventually I would usually broker the peace by asking her to leave the room, get herself a drink, dry her eyes and come back in to treat it as a new situation

For at least half of our 3 year relationship that was it. I tried opening her up to things; I asked her to explain her innermost fantasies and she just said she dreamed of me being inside her - no details, I took her to a sex shop and asked her to explore it with me, I tried watching porn together (letting her pick the videos)... after all that I was out of ideas.

I loved her but my mind was wandering. I came close to leaving her for other women twice but I never did.

Ultimately I became so infuriated with the lack of communication that I went out and slept with a random girl. I told her straight away, I guess a part of me was hoping to spark her into talking. But she treated the cheating as the issue rather than the symptom. 6 months later we split up.

I was gutted by that because she was my best friend (far more than she felt like my girlfriend over the last 2 years) and I really do even now still miss her.

3rd long term relationship - lasted 6 months) Although nothing non monogamous ever actually happened, she did class what I did as emotional cheating. Basically I tried speaking with her about something and she became unreasonable, so much so that she reminded me of my first girlfriend (who as I say needed her best mate around to keep her calm)... anyway she pushed it so far that I decided to end it with her, then she hung up and refused to answer my calls for a few days. Before I had actually got to see her again a female friend of mine had replied to a status on my facebook and before I knew it I was flirting with her and asking her out for a drink. The girl I was about to dump considered this emotional cheating and dumped me.

By contrast since getting into the poly scene everything has felt right. I loved watching B fall for her girlfriend and seeing how happy she was that she could have both of us. I have loved seeing that same happiness in S as she has explored polyamory with me over these last few months. Furthermore it's great to know that if I ever find myself developing feelings for someone then there is potential to see where it leads without that being at the expense of S who I love very much.

I know I say I'm somewhere in the middle of the mono/poly lifestyles but in reality when you break it down I'm probably more suited to the latter. I'm enjoying exploring it and if we can work through the insecurities and renegotiate things with S then I would like to date within the kink scene, and right now there's nobody else I'd like to date other than J.
 
We started making some big progress with communication today :) fact is we're both still new to polyamory and are still finding our feet so this is due to be a slow process, but it's so nice to have made a start!!

I wanted to especially say a massive public thank you to Loving Radiance for taking so much time out of her day to help straighten out a couple of newbies. We owe you so much for your wisdom
 
I'm glad I could help. I'm glad you two are talking. It's not always easy to break free of the paradigms we are raised in! It's quite a task to even REALIZE where we are following social norms that we may not have actually considered personally.
Just be patient with one another, understand that progress is a 2 step forward, 1 step back process.
And stay positive!
 
You know, I've been thinking about this a little more and what I realised is that I do tell my partner(s) when I get talking to someone new and exciting. I do tell them about my intentions with them. I do tell them what could, will, and might happen when I see them. I do all those things but not because there is a rule around it, not because my partner(s) want agency over my other relationships and not because my partner(s) are uncomfortable with one or both of us being poly, but its because we are friends. I like gossiping with my (sex positive) friends about our relationships and our sex lives, and having partners who are poly ans often kinky too offers a fantastic opportunity to talk to someone who gets it. To clarify, the absence of any sort of rules or regulations about how and who I date has created an environment where I actually want to talk about my other relationships with my partner(s) and it prompts me to consider their advice in a way I wouldn't if I suspected they sought to control me.
 
I just had a terrible weekend and am now at the lowest point I've ever been.

Since this all started 2 weeks ago S has constantly started saying she wants to think about whether or not she even want a relationship. I don't mind her saying this but when she brings it up during a discussion about x/y/z it feels like a means to control.

Yesterday I snapped during a discussion about one specific aspect of all the above problem... she said again that she wanted to have a think about our future. Bringing it up at this point is purely about trying to avoid the issue altogether and then force her own way. Or at least this is how it feels.

I told her about how this makes me feel like she doesn't ever want to genuinely discuss things and wants to just dodge them or force her own way. I told her specifically how it's just breaking me. It feels like our whole relationship revolves around her.

Today we were at a munch. J was there and we wanted to have a chat between the three of us to clear the air. I thought it went well, then afterwards S said that I was constantly talking over her. I really didn't think I was, but if I was then I'm sorry - I am borderline aspergers (I have many traits) and I struggle to know when it's my turn to speak in social situations. S concluded from this that I was clearly putting J ahead of her in terms of my priorities - to conclude this really annoyed me and I tried to reassure, it didn't work and I snapped a bit.

S then went to cry her eyes out in the ladies toilets, J and another friend both then went to try and help calm her down. I sat there fuming in the bar, wanting to reassure her, wanting to comfort her, desperately needing comfort myself...

When she came out we went outside to chat and the first words out her mouth were that she needs to have a think about what she wants to do regarding our future. I saw red, she hit that boundary again hard and I turned my back and walked back into the bar. I tried approaching her 10 minutes later and said I wanted to actually genuinely chat with her, she just said I had my chance and walked away.

It turned nasty at the munch, shouting in front of our friends - the worst thing that could have happened. But I just need us to communicate properly, slowly and with respect for each others insecurities. Why is that so hard to expect? Am I expecting it too soon in our relationship? Am I expecting it too soon after an argument?

I want to support her on her insecurities and want support back on mine, but I can't do that unless we can access them in a discussion without them being flipped round and attacked. In this regard it sometimes feels like I'm the only one wanting to make that effort - it feels like I'm the only one putting emotion and effort into things.

In fairness emotional flooding probably contributed to what happened today, exactly as LR has mentioned before. S had drank 5 glasses of Rose by this point...

I could forget all this though if she'd just be willing to give everything one last effort. A genuine effort with slow and thorough communication.
 
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Some people think it's just semantics, but I make a clear distinction between boundaries and rules.

Boundaries are about how I allow people to treat me.

Rules are about how I allow people to live their own lives.

I try to avoid rules. It's not my place to control the behaviour of others.

It's nonsensical to make a "boundary" that you can't date such-and-such a person. If you're going out, then whether you're going out on a date with a particular person or just going for drinks with your friends, that's not treatment towards S. If S isn't there, it can't be a boundary.

It's like saying "I have a boundary that Palestine and Israel need to stop fighting" when you live in the middle of Texas. It just doesn't make logical sense.

If you don't like the semantics, focus on the meanings. It's ok to tell people how to treat you. It's not ok to tell people how live their lives.

Saying that you can't date J is not a boundary, it's a veto. Before meeting J, did you and S discuss veto power? Did you agree to give her veto power over your other relationships? If you haven't, then she has no basis to tell you whom you can date. If you have, you can simply say "I retract my agreement to give you veto power."

Worst of all, to veto your entire dating pool just because she doesn't want to socialize with your other partners...

This has "blech" written all over it. Threatening to dump you every time she doesn't get her way is nothing but an adult temper tantrum. She could stop "considering" whether or not she wants to be in this relationship and make a decision one way or the other. Enough with the games.
 
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Threatening to dump you every time she doesn't get her way is nothing but an adult temper tantrum.

It sounds like you both have a lot of emotional triggers that make it difficult to have a balanced, calm conversation when difficult issues arise.

Can you and S find some way to create a new way of interacting that leads to a more harmonious relationship? Less ultimatums and more negotiations? The way you describe it sounds more like an ongoing drama :(
 
I called this from the beginning. Please, listen to what other people are telling you then. She has no intention of ever allowing you space to date anyone else. I get that you feel very fondly for her but you need to have some self respect too. You don't seem like the Jeremy Kyle type. Surely this is a hard limit.
 
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Threatening to dump you every time she doesn't get her way is nothing but an adult temper tantrum.
It sounds like you both have a lot of emotional triggers that make it difficult to have a balanced, calm conversation when difficult issues arise.

Can you and S find some way to create a new way of interacting that leads to a more harmonious relationship? Less ultimatums and more negotiations? The way you describe it sounds more like an ongoing drama

It is unfortunately, we are capable of communicating well, it's just that it seems to be a process we are learning as we go. Poly is all very new to us and the most important thing is communication, communication, communication... That needs to be a two way process with both parties wanting to come to it willing to express how they are feeling, what insecurities they have, how they feel it might be possible to address them etc

Coming to it and making the first thing you say "I have to be honest, I have been thinking of splitting up" when you've clearly designated to try to work through things seems from my perspective to be a manipulative tactic. From S's perspective that's just sharing how she's been feeling... but surely that should just be something you go to when you have tried resolving things and it's got nowhere?

I want her to have the freedom to leave if she wants to, but she's spent the past couple of weeks saying she's been willing to talk and we have made progress at times. Baby steps. But that's all I expect.

I'm not going to rush her on things as I know these are genuine insecurities. Insecurities are not something you can control, she's not consciously saying no to me and J because she's a nasty bitch - quite the opposite!! She feels horrible for saying no and has been beating herself up over it.

But when we try and talk things through she feels this weight on her shoulders... like everything's her fault. It's not!! I just want to communicate properly and that's something we both need to do. If ultimately that fails then by all means we should conclude that the relationship won't work... but to throw this into the communication stage as a statement strikes me as not being willing to communicate. I've told her it hits upon insecurities for me and seems manipulative and she's done it again today.
 
I called this from the beginning. Please, listen to what other people are telling you then. She has no intention of ever allowing you space to date anyone else. I get that you feel very fondly for her but you need to have some self respect too. You don't seem like the Jeremy Kyle type. Surely this is a hard limit.

And her behavior at the munch was so uncalled for and frankly immature. Doesn't.she care about anyone else else? How embarrassing
 
I called this from the beginning. Please, listen to what other people are telling you then. She has no intention of ever allowing you space to date anyone else. I get that you feel very fondly for her but you need to have some self respect too. You don't seem like the Jeremy Kyle type. Surely this is a hard limit.

FFS London will you listen to yourself and read the thread?

The argument today was nothing about me dating J or anyone else - it's about her insecurities and mine and how we communicate those.
 
Poly is all very new to us and the most important thing is communication, communication, communication...

Coming to it and making the first thing you say "I have to be honest, I have been thinking of splitting up" when you've clearly designated to try to work through things seems from my perspective to be a manipulative tactic.

Yes, communication is important. But communication and honesty don't mean dumping every thought that enters your skull. It means thinking first and balancing openness with respect and empathy. Maybe it means that even if she does feel like she has been thinking of splitting up, it may not be constructive and helpful to say so.

It's important to consider whether what you're going to say is going to move things forwards and help build foundation, trust, and compassion, or whether it's going to move things backwards and destroy those things. In this case, I think beginning conversations with a declaration that she's thinking of splitting up moves things backwards. So, she could keep it to herself. That's not being dishonest or failing to communicate. It's being respectful and compassionate.

I'm not going to rush her on things as I know these are genuine insecurities. Insecurities are not something you can control, she's not consciously saying no to me and J because she's a nasty bitch - quite the opposite!! She feels horrible for saying no and has been beating herself up over it.

It's not like saying no is an irreversible mistake. If she truly feels horrible about it, then all she needs to do to relieve the guilt is say yes. Sure, that means she's also saying yes to some uncomfortable feelings and a need to work on jealousy issues, but how much worse can that be than the status quo?

Who gets to decide that pacifying her insecurity is more important than respecting your autonomy? Who gets to decide that the pain she feels from you dating J is greater than the pain you feel by having your choices taken away?

She can't control her insecurity, but she can control how she behaves in response to it. She can choose to respond by putting limitations on you and controlling how you interact with other people, or she can choose to let you control your own interactions, trusting that you'll do what's right for her by continuing to treat her with love and respect.

If she's really in a place that she can't handle you dating anyone (which is what it's sounding like even though she's found ways to convince probably even herself that this isn't the case) then her insecurity may be too great for her to be involved in polyamorous relationships at this time.

The scariest thing in the world is the unknown. She doesn't know what to expect with you and J. So that freaks her out. But the only way to overcome that fear is to take a risk, let the relationship happen, and see where it goes. Maybe that will be awful, but probably it won't be so bad. And even if it is awful, she's already considering splitting up, so that's just the nail in the coffin. But without even giving you a chance to show her that you're able to date J and still respect S and fulfill her needs in your relationship, she's taking away her opportunity to overcome the fear.
 
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J was there and we wanted to have a chat between the three of us to clear the air. I thought it went well, then afterwards S said that I was constantly talking over her. I really didn't think I was, but if I was then I'm sorry - I am borderline aspergers (I have many traits) and I struggle to know when it's my turn to speak in social situations. S concluded from this that I was clearly putting J ahead of her in terms of my priorities - to conclude this really annoyed me and I tried to reassure, it didn't work and I snapped a bit.

Can you not see everyone since youve posted have said the same thing? The above quote is her manipulating you into believing that you are incapable of maintaining multiple relationships. Even when you think you're being reasonable, mature and fair as you have been, she tells you that you fucked up. You treated her badly as soon as another person was even remotely involved. I'm going to say this in another thread too but what a therapist told me when I was about 14 was that it is fine for me to have an anger management problem. I can keep it if I want. What I don't get to do is harm other people with it. And that is the same for anything: it's fine to have emotions, to have insecurities, to have issues, but when we project those issues onto other people in a way that harms them, that is unacceptable if you want to have healthy relationships. When you identify that you are doing that. You stop. No mater what you have to do, you stop that behaviour. You learn about why you do that behaviour once it's stopped and your feelings will "catch up". But first you stop harming.
 
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I'm going to say this in another thread too but what a therapist told me when I was about 14 was that it is fine for me to have an anger management problem. I can keep it if I want. What I don't get to do is harm other people with it. And that is the same for anything: it's fine to have emotions, to have insecurities, to have issues, but when we project those issues onto other people in a way that harms them, that is unacceptable if you want to have healthy relationships. When you identify that you are doing that. You stop. No mater what you have to do, you stop that behaviour. You learn about why you do that behaviour once it's stopped and your feelings will "catch up". But first you stop harming.

+1
 
London - That last post you put... your therapists advice - that is the most brilliant advice I've ever heard. I'd love to build our communications around that.

But for me it's also important not to cast her out in the cold and say "these are your insecurities, deal with them". I want to support her; I want to hold her if she's upset, I want to be there for her to talk to, I care about her. I'd expect the reverse if I have insecurities...

Now, I've told her that the specific behaviour is making me feel insecure (namely throwing around us splitting up at the starting point of any conflict resolution attempt) - considering that I've told her this and I expect that support back, I'm quite hurt.

SC - I've loved your last couple of posts. You make some excellent points about communication and dealing with things, particularly about thinking things through and asking yourself "is this going to be something that moves us forwards?"

However - I do think all of you are still missing the crux of the argument we had tonight. It was essentially an argument about how we communicate and how we treat each others insecurities, it was nothing to do with J or anyone else.

I understand why she has so many insecurities; she has anxiety problems and has just moved to a new city for work, polyamory is new to her, we are still new, she has a lot going on with her family and is trying to get used to managing her existing relationship over long distance - no wonder her heads in a spin and I don't blame her!! What I want to do is support her and work on this so that we as a couple can make those steps forwards.
 
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