Division in the poly community

redpepper

Active member
When I first came to this forum I thought that the only poly was my own. I remember being floored that some of the activities I had participated in ie. swinging, dating, open relationship, etc. were also called poly by some. In my confusion and frustration I felt "lumped in" to a community that I didn't want to be part of as I was then on the path to achieving my own personal goal of creating poly family.

I was made to realize that others do not wish to be "lumped in" to a community that is more poly fi, poly family orientated. They were, in fact, on the other end of the spectrum to me.... I thought that everyone was striving to be in a poly family and that swinging, open, etc. was the way to get there for most. Naive, I know.... but then we all start in ignorance right?

Someone during that time and in my numerous discussions here and in my own community, told me that there is a divide in the community. One that is sometimes divided by age and stage, but not necessarily. One that is divided between "child free" and those with children. I was told at the time by someone in the then small community here, that the only reason that they hung out with me was because there is no one else to hang out with... that small communities have to manage on their own and those that are in them just kinda have to put up with each other.

What are your thoughts on that? How can we come together? Is it necessary to come together? What kind of negotiations can we start with in order to have a relationship with each other? What do we need to understand about each other in order to be accepting of each others path?
 
What are your thoughts on that? How can we come together? Is it necessary to come together? What kind of negotiations can we start with in order to have a relationship with each other? What do we need to understand about each other in order to be accepting of each others path?



Hm, well I don't identify "as" poly and I have never been one to seek out company based on a commonality such as sexual, gender, or relationship orientation. Even when I go to nudist resorts, I go there because *I* want to be naked, not because I want to be around other people who like to be naked!

I'm not sure if I'm qualified to answer your question(s), but it helps to keep in mind that not everyone wants to "come together" or "have a relationship with each other". I'm fine with people going off and doing their own thing(s) and including or being included by as many or as few people as they choose. I don't think the world has to be one huge love fest. I think there needs to be less coming together and more minding our own business. That's been working for me so far and whether anyone wants to believe it or not, I am quite fulfilled in my personal relationships. But that's just me and I wouldn't dream of forcing my ways upon any happy, positive-thinking people who are reading this.
 
Funny, I was thinking about something similar last night. I had come across the transcript of Tristan Taormino's 2008 keynote address for a poly pride event in NYC. And it had me thinking that I would probably hate going to one of those things. Maybe I would if I had a lot of friends there, but it's not likely even if that were the case. Something like that is just too "manufactured" and conspicuous for me. I was recalling the few poly events I went to and how they didn't thrill me much at all. I remember one guy who started chatting with me by asking how I would feel about being a secondary. Sheesh. What a way to start a conversation and get to know someone.

Like NK, I don't identify as poly; I simply see myself as a human being who just wants to live my life as I see fit, and I truly dislike being seen as representative of any kind of "movement" or category. Certainly, I appreciate the existence of communities in which participants have multi-partner relationships because they will know what the heck I'm talking about if I need to vent, and I'm sure I can be helpful to others just because of my plain ol' relationship/life experience, rather than anything poly. I want to live in the moment and respond to what life brings me, and because of that I don't see the necessity of focusing my socializing or seeking potential lovers to the poly community. I still haven't yet reached the point where I'm juggling several ongoing and committed love relationships in my life, but labeling myself or being part of something more organized doesn't really seem very useful to me.
 
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Redpepper, I've noticed a similar divide. Not necessarily in the poly community, but in the world at large, over the family-friendly and the child-free. I know you have lots of questions about how to pull together, and I don't have any answers. Just the observation that in our society, one option is to remain child-free not only as a non-parent but also by avoiding the company of children in all of your activities. Very individualistic, and odd to those of us who live more colletivistic/interdependent lives.
 
Redpepper, I've noticed a similar divide. Not necessarily in the poly community, but in the world at large, over the family-friendly and the child-free. I know you have lots of questions about how to pull together, and I don't have any answers. Just the observation that in our society, one option is to remain child-free not only as a non-parent but also by avoiding the company of children in all of your activities. Very individualistic, and odd to those of us who live more colletivistic/interdependent lives.

Yes, I have noticed the same thing. People who have children usually cannot wrap their minds around those who don't want any. On the other hand, I never met a single child-free person who thought it was odd that others have decided to go ahead and reproduce.

Funny isn't it how sometimes people who seem so "accepting" in one area of "alternative lifestyle choices" just can't figure out how to apply it to other areas of the same.
 
I recently was informed by two separate couple friends of ours that their weddings would be child free. They didn't want me (or our son, who they adore) to feel bad. My response was, "okay, we weren't planning on bringing him anyway".

I can completely understand our friends who do not want to have children; some of them honestly shouldn't. I do not understand the people who treat those who have children (and those children) as if they have caught some sort of infectious disease.
 
I recently was informed by two separate couple friends of ours that their weddings would be child free. They didn't want me (or our son, who they adore) to feel bad. My response was, "okay, we weren't planning on bringing him anyway".

I can completely understand our friends who do not want to have children; some of them honestly shouldn't. I do not understand the people who treat those who have children (and those children) as if they have caught some sort of infectious disease.


The thing is, there ARE people who ignore those instructions on invites because they think that they are the special exception.

The reason some people act like their friends with children have an "infectious disease" is because it is quite common for people who would seem to make "cool parents" turn into self-centered self-righteous fucking assholes (for lack of a more concise term at my fingertips - although some of the more choice ones would certainly peg me as one of "those" child-free people) once they have spawned.

I hope this post is taken in the spirit of trying to help you understand something you said you do not understand, not as an "attack". I will be the first to admit that I do feel somewhat "attacked" by this sudden left-turn from discussing poly to discussing child-free, however i take complete responsibility for those feelings and do not expect people to walk on eggshells around me. Just be ready to hear some pretty "harsh" sounding things from my end if the discussion continues along these lines.

Amen.

Awomen.

Etc...
 
I will be the first to admit that I do feel somewhat "attacked" by this sudden left-turn from discussing poly to discussing child-free, however i take complete responsibility for those feelings and do not expect people to walk on eggshells around me.
Etc...

I am sorry you feel that way. I don't believe that the topic has take a left turn, so much as people were easily able to identify with one of the divides that RP mentioned
One that is divided between "child free" and those with children.
. Perhaps that is because this particular divide is pervasive in our society and not just in the poly community?

My own experience with our local poly community has been limited, but I did not feel that I was lumped into a particular category. At our last meet up, there was a wide age range, varied life experience, those with children and without, educated and not, etc. Personally, I belong to a number of different circles and have always easily found commonality between them. When meeting someone new, I always try to find one thread of common interest and go from there. I have friends that I do not talk politics with, but have great conversations on religion. Those friends that share I share parenting experience with do not necessarily understand *my* parenting, nor should they. Their child is not my child. The same goes for many other areas of divide. We are all individuals, it is important to respect both our differences and our commonalities. After all, if the world was all the same, it would be a very boring place.
 
I do not understand the people who treat those who have children (and those children) as if they have caught some sort of infectious disease.
My son does. Barely out of first grade, he's put together a couple things he's been told over the year:
He was told that Babies are similar to parasites in the womb.
He was told that tapeworms are parasites.

He has concluded therefore, and it came up quite independantly during conversation a couple weeks ago, that "Babies are just like tapeworms"

So, maybe they're not far off the mark. ;)




LUBE!
 
My son does. Barely out of first grade, he's put together a couple things he's been told over the year:
He was told that Babies are similar to parasites in the womb.
He was told that tapeworms are parasites.

He has concluded therefore, and it came up quite independantly during conversation a couple weeks ago, that "Babies are just like tapeworms"

So, maybe they're not far off the mark. ;)




LUBE!

We joking call our own child a crotch goblin, so I can't say I disagree with his perspective. Its more the "ew, you have children" reaction we sometimes get from complete strangers or in the case of a place we once lived, "I didn't know they allowed children here." The neighbors there were completely horrid to my, then 2 year old, son just for his very presence in our the building. Other people's choices are none of my business and I expect the same respect. It wasn't like he was ever loud or running wildly in the halls. He was always just standing shyly at my side while I got the mail or did laundry. *shrugs*

Why do some people have to be rude about their opinions anyway?
 
Actually Neon khaos, I have experienced the opposite. While I do love children, I have never been surprised when someone decides not to have children. I have many people in my family who made the decision not to have children, and a few who did have children, but chose to adopt instead of bringing more children in the world. So,..i guess I was brought up with children being a choice, not a requirement.

However, I have a whole lot of experience with women who want to date me, but almost try to forbid me to mention my kids, or get annoyed if I giggle over seeing some cute thing going on around me with children. They can`t seem to stand the sight of children, or hearing them. Its like a DADT policy exsists, and they want to pretend I am not a 'mother',..like that aspect they would be ashamed of mentioning to another.

I have learned not to get pissy about this and try to see what motivates. So far the 3 I took the time to question further, seem to equate motherhood with a backwards movement for feminism.

*****

Back to the OT,.. Yes, there are a couple of divides in polyamory. I personally don`t see it as a 'community' nor have I personally cared to do 'poly things'.
Poly, when represented as a 'community' seemed to me, like a parallel universe to monogamy with a white picket fence, and 2.5 children.
Aka, a very tunneled vision, if you don`t do it 'the way'.

Of course it is not always that way, but the front-runners of many groups, have it appearing so. Sometimes a 'purist' mentality exsists. If you want anything other then a big poly family or commune, then what you want is 'less' and not truly 'poly'. If you see it as a 'lifestyle', then you are not 'really' poly. Etc., etc.

It can sound quite similiar to; ' Unless you go to church every Sunday, and spend dinners together, and are legally married,..you are not really a proper family,..'

Like a couple of others have mentioned, I go by lack of label. Sometimes 'Open relationship or non-monogamy' as a umbrella term, and don`t claim to be 'poly' or to 'be' a swinger, etc.

I have learned to stay away from the extremes.

I greet life as it greets me, and let common sense dictate the rest.
 
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We joking call our own child a crotch goblin, so I can't say I disagree with his perspective. Its more the "ew, you have children" reaction we sometimes get from complete strangers or in the case of a place we once lived, "I didn't know they allowed children here." The neighbors there were completely horrid to my, then 2 year old, son just for his very presence in our the building. Other people's choices are none of my business and I expect the same respect. It wasn't like he was ever loud or running wildly in the halls. He was always just standing shyly at my side while I got the mail or did laundry. *shrugs*

Why do some people have to be rude about their opinions anyway?

Sorry to keep the conversation off topic but the only time the ewww children sentiment has bothered me was when a friend of ours came to visit when my son was a baby and was treating him as a non-person in his own house! I get that people don't like kids and don't want to be around them but if you go to a house where one (or more) happen to live put up with it or don't come. Everyone deserves to feel safe and accepted in their own house. No matter how young or old they happen to be!
 
Funny how people are really responding to the kids or no kids issue, though I didn't think that was RP's focus in her original post. Must be a sensitive issue for many. Now in re-reading it, maybe that is a big part of the question, but it seems that the divide between "poly family" (however one defines family) and a much looser practice of poly, was her main concern or at least what prompted the question.

As a kid, I used to fantasize about being part of a big family. But as I got older, I have come to enjoy my solitude and independence, although there are times I am quite lonesome. A poly tribe, or big poly family, is nothing I would ever want, whether there were kids in the equation or not. Maybe if I were still in my 20s or 30s, I'd be into it - but now in my 50s? Nuh-uh. It probably does have largely to do with my lifelong choice to be childfree, but not the only reason. I relish my privacy, and have had enough roommates from hell to find communal living rather off-putting. In embracing poly, I reignited an old dream of mine to be a truly independent woman openly living on her own with a number of lovers.

Now, getting to the question of divisions in the poly community...

I believe any divisions we do see will mostly be predicated upon our own experiences and viewpoints. I guess the "poly family" question is a non-issue for me, since I am satisfied with my choice and don't find myself in situations where it is challenged. And in NYC I don't seem to meet many people trying to build a poly tribe (real estate being a huge factor, probably!). So, I don't notice a divide so much from that perspective, but more so from the view of solo vs. married. For example, I frequently reach a saturation point at which I cannot hear one more story about opening up a marriage, or the struggles of a couple dealing with their "thirds" or in-laws or whatever. I want to hear more from solo poly people who choose not to have any primaries. For me, it's a divide I feel a lot, because I am alone and set apart from most of the people I've met at the few poly gatherings I've attended, and here, and other poly forums I have visited. I find it exasperating when someone says to me, "But you're not poly, you're just dating." It has happened.

That's one divide I see, but if I look at how I feel when I'm in a poly group, I see more -- these are all based on my choices that seem different from the majority of those who go to hang out at poly gatherings (being solo, a straight woman, not into kink, etc.). For me, I have never felt like I fit in anywhere in my entire life, so I think I'm used to it, sad though that may seem. Now, I have not experienced any outright rejection from the poly community, so I think the divisions I see are totally subjective. As I stated earlier, I don't see the need to label myself or be part of some organized poly machine, so it doesn't affect me much, other than bring up some occasional feelings of frustration.

Geez, I fucking hope that made some sense, I got distracted halfway through writing it.
 
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For me, I have never felt like I fit in anywhere in my entire life, so I think I'm used to it, sad though that may seem. Now, I have not experienced any outright rejection from the poly community, so I think the divisions I see are totally subjective.

Geez, I fucking hope that made some sense, I got distracted halfway through writing it.

This is how I've always been too, but at some point i realized that I didn't even want to fit in, but people expect you to "want" to fit in. It's much healthier to focus on the activities that give me satisfaction than to think of activities as something i do to find people with whom i have things in common.
 
. . . i realized that I didn't even want to fit in, but people expect you to "want" to fit in.

Oh gawd, yes! I hate the looks I get sometimes when I say something to the effect of "No thank you. I'd rather just sit over here and take it all in on my own terms." So to speak.
 
I don't mind the "child free" analogy, but how can it transfer into the topic at hand? Or does it? I guess it could in that generally neither "group" can stand each other and therefore think that it is acceptable to bash each other or say things in front of the other because they "can't stand them."

I think generally the focus here for most is to talk about working out some ideas in a civil way. I am pretty sure that we won't all agree on any or all of this kind of thing (As an example; I still don't see how dating is poly other than being open about who you are seeing, just as people don't understand why I would want to be in a poly-fi situation that is not natural to me), but I am hoping to find a way to agree to respect one another and pat each other on the back and be buds... is that a lot to ask for? Probably, but why not try? After all, we are marginalized enough without marginalizing each other.

I guess I am looking for commonalities in all this. Maybe going back to definitions is the way to go.... poly is generally referred to responsible non-monogamy... what the hell is that and how do we all practice it?

I dunno... I think I should just hide under a bush. I expect a lot don't I? Forgive me for wanting the world to get along regardless of what we do and how we get our needs met.

Another thought... maybe this is more about certain people rather than groups as a whole.
 
When I first came to this forum I thought that the only poly was my own. I remember being floored that some of the activities I had participated in ie. swinging, dating, open relationship, etc. were also called poly by some.

I find it interesting that people fail to complain that "swinging" and "open" are used to differentiate different forms of nonmonogamy, yet complain when "polyamory" is used to describe yet another form of nonmonogamy. They want all of nonmonogamy described as polyamory, yet don't try to refer to all of nonmonogamy as swinging...illuminates the fact that they have some underlying agenda.

Anyway, I've already weighed in on this on the FB group, so you can pull my statements from there if you wish to continue the discussion here.
 
(As an example; I still don't see how dating is poly other than being open about who you are seeing,

Are mono folk who are dating somehow not mono? I'd say they are. They may not have a committed pairing as yet, thought they're certainly pursuing one.

I'd say then that poly folk who are dating more than one person are still engaged in polyamory--they're pursuing multiple romantic relationships. They may or may not end up in committed relationships. Those committed relationships don't have to be polyfi, either, as committments don't have to include being closed to new relationships.
 
I have always identified as "nonmonogamous", and that's it. To me that describes what it needs to-- that I am not monogamous by nature-- and leaves the rest open to whatever it ends up being.

For me it just means that if someone comes along that I develop feelings for and things seem to move towards having some type of relationship--whether that be a more involved relationship, or a friends with benefits relationship-- I have the opportunity to go there without dumping my already established relationship. That's about it for me.

Mind you, I haven't done that much because I don't meet people that I would like to be more than friends with much, and most of the time when I do they are not in a position to be more than friends with me. So if you look at the pattern of my relationship for the past eleven years, it would seem mono (at least on my side). It's more that the option is available, whether or not I use it.

I do think that there is a divide in ALL communities when it comes to people thinking X means "blah blah blah" and anybody that claims to be X without being "blah blah blah" is wrong. Mostly, I think it has to do with the tendency of many (most) people to overlook that their OPINIONS are just that-- opinions, and the tendency to think if someone else's opinion is different, then they are wrong. This goes for everything and anything you can have an opinion on.
 
I have always identified as "nonmonogamous", and that's it. To me that describes what it needs to-- that I am not monogamous by nature-- and leaves the rest open to whatever it ends up being.

For me it just means that if someone comes along that I develop feelings for and things seem to move towards having some type of relationship--whether that be a more involved relationship, or a friends with benefits relationship-- I have the opportunity to go there without dumping my already established relationship. That's about it for me.

Mind you, I haven't done that much because I don't meet people that I would like to be more than friends with much, and most of the time when I do they are not in a position to be more than friends with me. So if you look at the pattern of my relationship for the past eleven years, it would seem mono (at least on my side). It's more that the option is available, whether or not I use it.

I do think that there is a divide in ALL communities when it comes to people thinking X means "blah blah blah" and anybody that claims to be X without being "blah blah blah" is wrong. Mostly, I think it has to do with the tendency of many (most) people to overlook that their OPINIONS are just that-- opinions, and the tendency to think if someone else's opinion is different, then they are wrong. This goes for everything and anything you can have an opinion on.

Great post Minxxa.
Much better then my babble !
 
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