Turnabout

Just for clarity, she technically doesn't work in his office; she is an associate of the franchise. So it's easy for her to "stop by" but it would be just as easy for her not to, if they broke it off.

I think Sundance is thinking along the lines of, if their relationship progresses, he will be able to break it to her gently, about the lies he has told her, and hopefully she will understand and be able to forgive him.

Add to the mix that once she and I meet, things could take an interesting turn, and we can't predict what that will be. I'm not sure if I will click with her or not. I'm not sure if she will be terribly jealous of me, or not -- weird how that never really crossed my mind, when I've read enough posts of the secondary woman's feelings, you'd think I'd be more aware, DUH.

Sundance had no idea where this was going to lead. He thinks he can control his feelings, but I think her affection and attention has taken him a little more by surprise than he anticipated. People can endear themselves to you. Sometimes, it starts out that you love them. Other times, you fall in love with the way they love you. Frankly, the way she loves him has taken me aback. Powerful stuff, this love thing.

Thanks to all of you for your input, I appreciate it beyond words. And I WILL encourage the Sundance Kid to get on here, I promise!!!
 
Also, TP, thanks for your posts about Indigo's "interpretation" of the truth. Makes me feel much less afraid of Sundance's. He's human. He's scared, too. He lies to me sometimes because he is afraid he can't trust me with the truth. I know that feeling.
 
Just for clarity, she technically doesn't work in his office; she is an associate of the franchise. So it's easy for her to "stop by" but it would be just as easy for her not to, if they broke it off.

I think Sundance is thinking along the lines of, if their relationship progresses, he will be able to break it to her gently, about the lies he has told her, and hopefully she will understand and be able to forgive him.

I will admit I tend to be the worrier/anxiety person, so I see the trouble that COULD happen a lot! LOL.. so take that, and this, with a grain of salt.

But... still... you don't know her that well. Maybe once she learns he's not separating from you, that you're NOT spending all of your time with your boyfriend, and that she's NOT going to be the new love of his life, and instead she has been sucked unknowingly into a poly relationship--- she might not react that well. Maybe she will, maybe she loves him that much, maybe she's truly an understanding person.

It's just as likely she'll be heartbroken, feel her trust has been broken, feel used. She might just "go away" at work. Or she might tell every single person she knows and he knows that he lied to her that they were going to be together and used her.

If she's hurt enough, you have NO idea what she's capable of, because you don't know her, and he doesn't really know her.

And how do you think she's going to handle telling her family that the guy they just met is married and staying that way? How do you think it makes her feel after she told them one thing about him, and now it turns out that isn't true.

Like I said, I always see the possibilities of drama-- and that's part of the reason I detest the lying thing. Because it creates bad situations, and invites bad reactions, and you have no idea how bad it can get.

Regardless, he needs to tread cautiously, and be prepared for a reaction he doesn't like.
 
But... still... you don't know her that well. Maybe once she learns he's not separating from you, that you're NOT spending all of your time with your boyfriend, and that she's NOT going to be the new love of his life, and instead she has been sucked unknowingly into a poly relationship--- she might not react that well. Maybe she will, maybe she loves him that much, maybe she's truly an understanding person.

And I'm suspicious of how quickly she's even saying she loves Sundance. Come on, after a few dates? So, I'm worried that she has a tendency to be co-dependent and things will get very messy indeed when the truth comes out.
 
I was just thinking that as sorry as I am this is happening, I'm glad you're posting. It makes me think that if the thought pops into my head to encourage my mono bf to try poly, maybe I should refrain. I'm not saying Sun's behavior is your fault -- it's not, he is responsible for his actions -- just speculating.

Maybe mono people can't fall into openly and happily loving more than one person like poly people can. Like, maybe Sun can't bring himself to say to Barbie "I love everything about you AND I love everything about my wife" because he himself is too uncomfortable with that fact. My impression is that for most hardcore mono people (as opposed to monoflexible peeps) the very idea of someone loving multiple people is extremely difficult to process and understand, which is why they often feel so betrayed by poly partners, so it makes sense to think that they would have a hard time dealing with it in themselves too.
 
Hardcore mono people wouldn't attempt to do what sundance is doing....he's making lemonade ....perhaps poorly but non the less trying to get with the new program his wife needed/wanted. Now he's damned for doing a bad job first time out...a little slack don't ya think....and he going to have to clean up his own mess.....so hand him a mop.

I think when it comes to affairs of the heart to expect the unexpected. And in some cases when the alternative Guy/gal is funnier, smarter, better looking, more interesting , sexier, better listener , better cook, more fun to be around, or a better fill in the blank ....and or less a pain in the ass... the obvious choice happens. People can not assume the when presented with a more attractive alternative (sum total not physical) that choices wont be made....there will be a shift toward the perceived better alternative....could that be the end of a marriage sure that has to always be a possibility ....it could be very very remote but thats why we suit up and play the game.
 
Back from our trip. It turned out to be a disappointment for both of us -- because it was a business trip which we thought was going to include some time for pleasure -- not hardly! But we did enjoy some private time in the hotel -- we were just dog tired every moment. Bummer.

We talked poly most of the weekend. I am struggling so much. My ego is incredible! I was not expecting this at all. I was intellectualizing everything. Emotions just don't work that way. I am embarrassed that I am so HUMAN, after all -- that was not supposed to be the case; I thought I could be a machine or something! :confused:

He texted her a bit while we were driving, and a few times throughout the trip. I asked him to call her a couple of times, since I didn't want to worry if he was itching to call her, or if he was going to sneak off to do it. I am trying like hell to create an environment where MY reactions are not so ridiculously out of proportion, that he is tempted to withhold the truth from me.

She lent him her GPS for the trip. It was actually a great help. Hard for me to admit this! <<EGO>>. One thing that stung (although, wow, I'm glad he felt free enough to TELL me) was, he told her that one location is him, and the other is her, and he's going to put a heart near both of them and she will see that there is no distance between the two hearts.....(Something like that). One thing about Sundance: he is a MASTER with words. Of course he made her swoon, which in turn makes him feel like his talents are being used effectively -- I gotta face it, he totally melted her and made her day, and I can see why, it would have had the same effect on me. The hardest thing is, wondering if he is sincere or not -- I mean, if a man says something along those lines, I'd be expecting a ring, not a fling!!!! If there is no distance between his heart and hers......... where do I factor in????????

Who should be asking that question? Him, me, her......

At another point he texted her: "I miss talking to you." Really? While you're on a vacation with your wife, who you claim to love? Who should be asking that question, too?

No wonder there is so much confusion, right?

Sundance is NOT poly. He is trying it, but I know he is feeling a TON of conflict and confusion, himself. He feels he needs something on his own, to help him to deal with my relationship with Butch. I get that, but he is adding a lot of extra turmoil onto himself. Maybe he just has to find this out for himself, I don't know. This man has been a 100% devoted husband for 12 years. He has never flirted with another woman, never ever. He has been true blue and committed to me and our family for life. He has never once seen another woman that compares to me, in his eyes.

But if he's going to have a "girlfriend," he's not going to treat her like a piece of meat. He says kind words, he says loving things, because he knows that's what a girl likes to hear. Personally I wish he'd just stick to sex talk and sending naked pictures back and forth. He's taking this too far. I don't think he knows how else to do it. :(

I am angry with my heart for ever opening to another man, but it did and there is no way I can close it back up now. People always say, "Follow your heart" but I did. It got me into a place I really don't want to be. :( But the alternatives all suck, too. :(
 
Hmm, Carma, nowhere did you mention whether or not you talked to him about the deception he's been perpetrating on her, with all the stuff he's told her about you and your marriage, and the fact that you want to meet her and for her to know you and Sundance are solid. Did you address that? Did he say he would come clean? Sundance may know how to make a girl feel good with flowery talk, but it will all turn to steaming shit when she finds out he's been lying all along to keep her around, or using her to deal with your poly.

Also, don't be angry with yourself for falling in love with Butch. Love isn't something to be angry about, AND the place you're in was not your doing alone. It's not your fault that you are uncomfortable with how Sundance is conducting his relationship with the gf, and isn't handling this as well as he could.
 
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But if he's going to have a "girlfriend," he's not going to treat her like a piece of meat. He says kind words, he says loving things, because he knows that's what a girl likes to hear. Personally I wish he'd just stick to sex talk and sending naked pictures back and forth. He's taking this too far. I don't think he knows how else to do it. :(

You know, I'm currently in an "open" relationship, not one that's describing itself as poly. And what you've described is sort of our rules about what we do with other people: sex talk, sexting, hot pictures, keep it sex-related, don't say the l-word. Fuck buddies, not relationships.

I recently got into a situation where my sex-only buddy has turned into something else, and I feel a need to express, well, affection? tenderness? It's for this reason that I'm looking into poly.

All I'm saying is: is it necessarily bad that he is trying to say loving things? I can definitely understand when you say that he doesn't really know how to "woo" a girl any other way.

I guess I'm asking: is it his affectionate manner really what's bothering you, or is it something else? Are you worried he is lying to you about the intent of his relationship with her? Are you feeling regretful that you and your boyfriend don't interact with that same affection?
 
Sundance may know how to make a girl feel good with flowery talk, but it will all turn to steaming shit when she finds out he's been lying all along to keep her around

My hubby used to do this too, he felt like he didn't know how to make another woman feel good without making her feel like the princess of the earth :rolleyes: Then he would wonder why his g/f's would get all crazy jealous and want him to be their only one. He came to realize the destruction that caused all of us and has been cognizant of the fact that even though you want to treat someone special and show them your love, you cannot lead them down the primrose path. There is a fine balance, Sundance will need to find what his is
 
Yes, we have talked about his deception. Sundance said he is hoping to ease her into the truth, eventually. We are a little unsure where that will lead, you know, it adds another dimension to it all -- she and I will have a relationship, too. Makes it more complicated, makes it more "poly," when Sundance is not so sure how he feels about poly to begin with. He goes back and forth. Sometimes he is really ok with Butch and me, and our arrangement. Sometimes we are sooooo on the same page, caring for Butch, Sundance truly loving him as a best friend and glad to help him in this rough time in his life (possibly the limited time he has left in this life, as he has a very serious heart condition). But then other times his ego simply goes into a freak out. NOW, I get that!!!!!

MZ, you said:
"I guess I'm asking: is it his affectionate manner really what's bothering you, or is it something else? Are you worried he is lying to you about the intent of his relationship with her? Are you feeling regretful that you and your boyfriend don't interact with that same affection?"

Sometimes (usually) I am very secure in his dedication to me, his love for me, I mean, I feel super solid. But it can flip so easily, when my mind starts playing tricks on me. I start getting all suspicious. I shouldn't. I REALLY believe he loves me, with all his heart. What really nags at me? Is that he is going to believe SHE loves him more than I do. :( Because it is easy to get someone to look at you like you're a god, when they only see you at your best and they hang on your pretty words like they are gospel!

More later -- kids to transport!
 
Am I regretful that Butch and I don't interact with the same affection?

Yes. And no. The romantic girly in me wants it, yes. But Sundance really is great like that. He is great with words and saying lovely things that make me feel special and adored. Do I have to get all greedy?!?

Butch is so respectful of his place in my life. He would never want to compete with Sundance, would never take advantage of an opportunity to "trump" him in a weak moment. If I cry on his shoulder (which I RARELY do) over some little hurt or slight from Sundance, Butch is the first one helping me see Sundance's side! He is truly on the team.

Butch is also very choosy about the words that come out of his mouth. He processes things first. He thinks everything through. At times this is great, but at other times I wish he'd just blurt something out in the heat of passion or an emotional surge! He is reserved -- more so than I am, or Sundance either. I have to work to understand this, and not take it personally. It can lead me to wonder -- is he using restraint, or does he just not really care about me all that much? Is he a damn machine or something???

Butch won't say things that would result with me getting fruity and showing up on his front porch, ready to run off with him. I think he realizes the dangers of NRE, of the fact that it is so easy to get disillusioned with someone you only see in limited doses. I try to always remember this, too. He knows that just because Sundance may let me down once in awhile, or disappoint me, doesn't mean that he doesn't love me and want our marriage to work. It doesn't mean that I'd be better off running to Butch -- we'd have our own set of problems and, frankly, they'd be horrible!

Sundance stopped at Barbie's house on his way to work this morning for a quickie. I was ok with this, and told him so when he left today. I feel good about it -- it was sex, it seems like it was more light and fun than all the sweet nothings he's been texting her. He called me right after, so I feel great he was being upfront. I also feel great that he felt open enough to BE upfront!

NYCin, thanks so much for your kind words of reassurance, in my love for Butch. He is a wonderful person and I can't blame myself for falling in love with him! Anyone would! Even Sundance understands. I have two terrific men in my life. Who knows? Maybe someday I will have a girl friend who shares my love for Sundance in a special way, too.

It's a good day in polyworld for me. :)
(Stay tuned, this too shall pass, haha!) :rolleyes:
 
Carma, thank you so much for this post! I feel very similar feelings about Sven and how reserved we are with each other.

Sven has had a lot of girlfriends and a lot of breakups in his life, and I think in general is just slower to say the romantic things--even if I were in a "real" relationship with him. I'm so different, since I met the man I married at 19 and 8 years later, we're still together. I've had only open communication and an unreserved airing of all my feelings to my romantic partner, and I'm used to it that way. It has been weird to hold back with Sven.

It's great you get all the romantic moments with Sundance! What a charmer.

It's a good idea that you don't cry on Butch's shoulder about Sundance too often. I have the same policy. I have never brought up any problem I've had with my husband with Sven. I don't want him getting the impression that I'm with him to fill some need my husband isn't fulfilling, or that I'm unhappy with my husband. I'm not, and our little marital things are not Sven's business. Or at least, that's how it's been going so far.

I hope Butch blurts out something in the heat of passion too, sometime, just for fun. Sven has said one or two things in the heat of... alcohol. The little scraps I get from him melt my heart.

Sooooo glad Sundance called you after his quickie!!! That makes all the difference, doesn't it? It's the secret-keeping that makes it hard to bear.
 
Yes, we have talked about his deception. Sundance said he is hoping to ease her into the truth, eventually. We are a little unsure where that will lead, you know, it adds another dimension to it all -- she and I will have a relationship, too. Makes it more complicated, makes it more "poly," when Sundance is not so sure how he feels about poly to begin with. He goes back and forth.

Stop worrying about whether he is poly or not, and just invite Barbie over for dinner with all of you already! :D
 
NYC, I wish YOU could come over for dinner! I love you!!!

And MZ, I feel we are kindred spirits, too!
 
I was ok with the quickie. Maybe because I knew it might happen, and we had talked about it. But yesterday, he met her after work and I never saw it coming. I called him and he didn't answer. Then he called back about 15 minutes later and told me they had met up, that she had begged him to meet her in a parking lot just for a little bit... The emotional upheaval was incredible! First, instant erotic excitement, then an adrenaline rush, then an overwhelming feeling like I was going to throw up. :(

We had been talking about it earlier in the day, how I think it's a hoot he got a booty call, he's such a stud, etc. It doesn't bother me as much when I know about it beforehand, but after the fact, it stings. (As Sundance well knows -- he set up the policy that I call him before and after I meet Butch!)

He talks on the phone with her at night when I am at work, then in the morning on his way to work. Then today, she came into his office. And they have set a date for Friday night. She has a "special gift" to give him (his birthday is Sunday).

For a girl who doesn't mean that much to him, he is sure spending a lot of his time with her. :confused:

He says SHE is the one with the NRE, and he makes it sound like he's just going along with her, so he can keep her on the side, to balance things out because of my relationship with Butch. He says if I say "bingo" he'll end it with her -- but "bingo" was the word THEY established, if either of THEM wanted to end their relationship! They set up cute nicknames for things. She has even nicknamed his penis! He and I already HAD a nickname for it, but now sometimes he accidentally calls it by the name she gave it!:mad: Okay, I am fucking JEALOUS!!!

Do marriages ever just go back to being monogamous, after full-fledged poly??

The way Butch keeps everything inside, never tells me he loves me, always acts like it's better not to talk about things...... I am starting to question what the hell I am doing here! Sundance has gone to the arms of another woman, all because of my inability to resolve things with Butch sooner. I love Butch, but he does not love me and has no intention of having a future with me. I figured it could all be one way, that was ok with me. But I stand to lose a LOT here. Is it selfish of me to stop and think that??? Is it selfish of me to want to keep my husband, after years of taking him for granted??? Am I just seeing him through HER eyes, have I been so blind????

It's like Sundance was a beautiful toy I had on a shelf, and I didn't realize how precious he was to me until someone else wanted to play with him.

But I know people aren't possessions. I sure didn't want to be one. Am I such a fucking hypocrite??? (That's a song, I think ;))

I don't know how to hold on, I don't know how to let go, or if I even should...

Tough moment in polyworld, once again. :(
 
Seriously. She re-nicknamed his penis. :(
 
Would I rather have her use the nickname WE had? Well NO! I just wish she hadn't named it at all! :mad: Grrr, jealous!
 
Is the new nickname funnier or more cute than the old penis nickname? She might like making up nicknames and is just good at it. Did you name butch's penis......tell the truth?
 
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