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Old 08-25-2011, 03:37 PM
trueRiver trueRiver is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Manchester, England & Tain, Scotland
Posts: 85

hi BU,
Thanks for the reply: my feelings on this are profoundly turbulent; that is a mix of very negative and very positive responses. Your post on the other thread, quoted in my first post here, pushed a lot of buttons for me that I had forgotten I had, unresolved issues.

Can I say first that this is a Good Thing; a chance to look again at past hurts (and which in some ways I am not going to disclose in public, links to present conflict in my life). It is not a comfortable one.

Your last point is where I had got to by the end of my first post. My attitude shifted between the first double bracketed line (( ::: )) and the second: a reliable sign that stuff is shifting. Yes, thank you for confirming my inner direction: I do need to work on this hatred.


There is also the fact that if someone attacks me for something I have not done, purely for reasons of political ideology, that is unacceptable.

If someone attacks my then gf for choosing what the attacker perceives as an unaaceptable choice of adult consenting partner that is unacceptable.

Before you ask me as a man to understand where these wimmin were coming from, what I need to hear is the preamble that says 'of course androphobia is evil, but it might help to understand where it was coming from'

Before you ask me, as a hetero partner of my then gf, to understand where those wimmin's actions originated, I need to hear you say 'of course heterophobia is evil, but it might help...etc'

The thing that was special about the book, The Sceptical Feminist, was that the author applied the idea of equal standards for both the sexes (or both genders). She did not refer much to Gay issues, but had she done so I feel sure she would have done the same.

I find what was said to my then gf to be as offensive as any homophobic remark inspired by politics: the fact that the politics is radical rather than conservative is no excuse for hate politics.

The contexts are different, I accept. The. reactionary hate political attack is (usually) supported by a wide power structure that makes the political hatred more effective and hence more damaging. Even so, the offensiveness of the actual remark (considered in itself) remains for me identical.

I wonder if you are able, as The Sceptical Feminist was, to 'those kind of remarks were wrong', before also making the valid points that you understand where they came from, and as well as pointing out the good that came in parallel.

And I don't know if you realise, the position taken was even more extreme than 'every Fuck is a Rape'. I, as a virgin on arrival at uni, was already a rapist. Simply because I was a man. Regardless of anything I had ever done or ever would do.

Are you able to say that, however understandable in the political context of Autumn 1974, that was a Bad Thing to say to someone?

I want to drop the hatred, now I have noticed I have been carrying the anger from that conversation for almost 37 years; anger and hatred are not useful things to carry longterm. Can you see, though, that there is some justice there as well?

On a brighter note, one of the things I really enjoyed coming into contact recently with polys, was being accepted unconditionally. Nobody is shouting at me, as they used to in 'right on' environments, for the nonminority roles I carry (male, hettie, vanilla). Things have moved on and I am glad they have. There, if nowhere else, I think we will agree. As you say, people change.

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