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Old 08-20-2011, 07:35 PM
ClariceK ClariceK is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 32

RP I actually agree with much of what is in the document that you shared. I think that often DaJoshy is sarcastic "I have often said "If it wasn't for sarcastic remarks he wouldn't remark at all" but honestly, Josh is honest to a fault. She wanted him to tell her he loved her, he said over and over again that he cared very much for her (as do I still if I am honest, but after the way I was hurt by her saying she loved me and my returning that because I could be honest when I said it to find out that she was telling others she wished I would leave the relationship, much of that love has turned to hurt) but that he didn't feel that saying "I love you" just because she wants to hear that is appropriate if he didn't really feel that way. I can't say that I can really disagree with him in that. I wouldn't want him to bullshit me and say he loved me if he didn't. In fact, we were dating for almost a year before he said the love word to me although I said it often to him in that time. I fall and fall hard when I do, he takes time.

Does DaJoshy have a massive ego? Yes he does, and honestly he would be the first to say he does. But I also love him for who he is, and I don't really try much to change him. Does he hurt my feelings sometimes? Yes he does, and often if I am to be honest, but I also know that it is not intentional on his part, because I know that if he knew what he said would have hurt me he wouldn't have said it. Josh is honest, too honest many times. While others think something that may be rude or insensitive, Josh actually says those things because I think he feels that he is being honest.

Our problems with communication are not so much his not talking about feelings, but more my not liking the way he does express them. I can look at many situations where he did express his feelings, but because those expressions of feelings weren't what I wanted to hear, I decided that he was uncommunicative. Because he doesn't talk about his emotions for hours like I can and do, doesn't necessarily mean he doesnt share his emotions. Sometimes those emotions come out as anger (not a uncommon trait for many men actually) and that anger has to pass and the bravado has to pass and the ego has to shrink a litle, but he gets past that and shares, did he share his deepest darkest emotions with her like I did, no he didn't, but she also would walk out of the room when he did talk about what was important to him because she though t it boring. I dont know that I would have shared too deeply if I got that response.

Yes he does think that psychology is a bunch of bullshit, but you know what, so do a LOT of people in this world. His feeling the way he does about my therapist is more about my issues with my therapist then my husbands. My therapist and I have been for many years now not really working the best. He has done great things for me, which my husband does see and give him credit for. But in the last years it has become more and more that my therapist and I spend 3/4 of the session "talking shop" and the rest catching up on my latest activities with my nonprofit. There is a deep current of transference and counter transference going through the relationship and I have spent a long time now talking to my husband about my dissatisfaction and my frustration WITH MYSELF for not having the balls to talk to my therapist about this, and not wanting to hurt my therapists feeling or seem "unfaithful" to him. I didn't really go much into this because it wasn't relevant to the post about my husband wanting me to drop him. Honestly, when I analized the whole situation later when ti was less of a "hot topic" in the house I realized that it was my way of trying to use my husband as a scapegoat for my ending the relationship, and then I tried using the "He doesnt agree with my life choices so I have to dump him" angle and neither worked the way I wanted them to. Hubby said that he was tired of listening to me complain about it and to just dump him already instead of saying "I wish I had the balls to say I need to move on" which honestly kinda parallels the situation with SU. If hubby was really that threatened he would have asked me to dump him 4 years ago when I started complaining about my therapist to him on a weekly sometimes daily basis. This is MY issue not his, I wasn't owning it the way I needed to and I was wrong for that.

Yes my husband sees him as a wedge between us because he doesn't like him (my therapist thinks Josh is brash and too uncaring in his expressing himself, I agree with my therapist on this often, hubby kinda takes that as his hating him, I think that it is possible to feel that way about hubby and not hate him, with hubbys distrust of therapists, I can see his side too) so I dont feel forced to leave my therapist (I still see him in fact, because every week I say "Ok tell him you think hes not right for you anymore!!You can do it" then I sit down and say "Guess what I learned in class this week" .

As far as the work thing that was brought up, honestly it was a matter of it not being tasteful and honestly I wouldn't go into work and kiss my husband either, it is not appropriate for his work situation weather the kissing was done by me or anyone else. I told both of them this and hubby got the brunt of my feelings on this for his allowing it to happen with ANYONE in his office like that. It wasn't a "how can you kiss her at work" it was a "How can you be so unprofessional and rude like that?".

SU was included in our extended families and was also brought to NUMEROUS work events, she wasn't excluded, she was asked not to kiss hubby at work, I didn't think that to be too much to ask. She was included to the point that she often went with me to my sister (only family in the state's) house and spent time with her. She was included in EVERYTHING we did.

We were honest with SU about the boundaries we wanted for the relationship, she was fine with those boundaries. If she wasn't ok with those boundaries then she had the right to say that those were not ok with her. I think that many good points were made. We should not have under any circumstances let her move in. We should not under any circumstances helped to feed and clothe her child, and next time that mistake will not be made.

I am HIGLY offended that even with DaJoshy being the sarcastic smartass that he is that anyone would think that we "treated this girl like a slut" she choose the name slutty unicorn, I said numerous times I didn't like it, that I didn't see her as that and neither did hubby, but I also didn't take her walking around talking about how she was a slut all the time and my telling her not to say that as a sign that maybe I needed to not be giving her the benefit of the doubt in that regard. I mean I sometimes take a too "analytical" approach and forget Freud's "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" and when I heard her say she was a slut I took that as a person with poor self image, instead of at face value as what it was, which was her way of saying that she truly wasn't committed and that she was "being slutty". I wont make that mistake next time.

Every other relationship we have had over the years had ended pretty amicably. Either they or I or hubby has decided it wasn't working for whomever and that we needed to end it. They are still friends of ours, although many have moved to here or there. There has been true (sometimes very blunt) honesty, but the women have also been independent, self supporting women who had their own lives outside of us. To say that we "used" her is absolutely incorrect. Hubby stopped sleeping with her shortly after he felt that she was unfaithful to the relationship. We asked her about it , she said she wasn't. She said she was perfectly happy (of course she was, she had us supporting her and him supplementing that secretly) and she denied things over and over. We didn't use her, in fact, that is why hubby stopped sleeping with her because he DIDN'T want her to feel used once she realized we knew she was unfaithful. She wasn't dishonest because she felt that she couldn't be honest, she was dishonest because she couldn't be honest with us till after she was more financially stable and they were ready to be together.

I guess that is why hubby is so angry and his anger comes across masked as sarcasm and bravado. I am actually kinda shocked that more on here couldn't or wouldn't see that. I guess I expected too much. Instead he now feels angry and hurt by her, and even less validated in his anger by being told he was the wrong one for "Hurting that poor girl like that" and being seen as a "pig" instead of the guy hurting that he is.

I am sorry that maybe you have NO IDEA about the number of men who LEAVE THEIR WIVES on their deathbed because they "cant deal with their emotions" but this guy has stood there by my side and maybe not been the perfect man, but he has always cared for and treated every single woman he has ever been with with caring and respect to the best OF HIS ABILITY which is about all I ever ask of ANYONE in this world. I am more hurt by the trashing he got on here then I am by anything that has happened in this relationship because I had seen this place as a place where it was ok to be not right all the time and ok to not always agree.

Hubby was going to reply, even typed something out, but then said "Why should I bother, I am a pig to them and will always be, I wont reply or go to their site again" I guess you guys were all right, he has no emotions and is just an uncaring ass out there using women and tossing them aside. I guess I just didn't see that side of him while he nursed me through cancer and visited me daily driving 100 miles each way to see me back when I was in hospitals. The number of divorces that happen after a illness is astounding, a very large number of marriages never make ti through them.
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