>Having three mono partners sounds A LOT. I mean, one mono/polyship is >hard enough to juggle, but with a busy workload and three women who >each rely solely on him for their romantic and sexual needs - is D really up >for the job?
It is a lot. And I've wondered if it wouldn't be better for him to have FB's or FWB's … truly no strings attached, but he's not wired for that any more than I am. He develops deeper feelings for women he has sex with regularly. Then I thought he might be better served to have one girlfriend and a couple of tertiarys, but that wouldn't work with the 3 of us. None of us would accept being a tertiary. And the fact is, he does care for and love each of us.
>We all got along, but Ki and Ka developed a deeper friendship. They are a >lot alike personality wise - very talkative and extroverted; I'm quieter and >introverted.
>This might be one of the reasons why you are the target of jealousy.
Could very well be. When we all began interacting more, they thought that I pulled away and didn't want to be involved. And they were right to an extent. I had to come to terms with the changes in the overall relationship, which facilitated changes in my relationship with D on MY time, not theirs. Then they have thought that I was pretending that their relationships with D weren't "real", that they were only friends. Hell, of course I knew they were real! I just didn't obsess over EVERY little thing that went on between him and one of them, nor did I want to know everything or be involved in everything.
>So the threesome was formed because of Ki wanted more time with D and >he wasn't interested?
That is why he suggested the threesome: Ki would get more time though it would be shared with Ka. But that is only part of the reason. He lived with 2 women previously for about 5 years and he missed having that. So, this threesome kills two birds with one stone.
>So he broke boundaries he had set upon himself, and had fullblown NRE with >Ki and Ka which alienated you for a while. After that abated, you slowly got >back together. Does he comprehend in any way why you felt so upset? >Have you asked him why he felt there needed to be the boundaries in the >first place?
In a nutshell, yes. I honestly don't know the answers to your questions. D and I have not had any in-depth discussions about it since the blow-up. I suspect he may understand intellectually why I was upset, but it doesn't register on an emotional level. He didn't think it was that big a deal because he was already sexual with both of them and didn't go outside the group. He didn't want to deal with my real pain of betrayal because he broke the boundaries he'd set. And no, I've never directly asked him why he felt the need for boundaries in the first place. If he'd not mentioned those boundaries, it wouldn't have hurt nearly as much. I still feel that all three of them entered this too fast and without considering the broader implications and how it was going to effect everyone in the relationship.
>It reads as Ki has somewhat of an FWB or tertiary partner status in D's life. >Nothing much you can do about it, and little that you should. D seems by >your description to be less interested in her as a person and more in it for >the kicks he gets out of two women together (and why would they do >threesomes if they are straight anyway? That is besides the point, but still).
Yes, she has always been more a tertiary. Now that she is spending more time with D than ever, she wants to be more integrated into his life and he doesn't really want that. But, for him the threesome isn't just for kicks - it's something he values in his life and both of them value it too. He gets emotional, as well as sexual fulfillment from it. The two of them aren't sexually involved with each other, but they enjoy the heightened sensations andemotions and are fulfilled from it also.
>You don't have to deal with the fallout. Just say you are not interested, >and she needs to discuss things with D, >since you can't do anything about >their relationship. Tough love, firm boundaries etc.
That is what I mostly do. I've have tried to help her see that D does value her. But, she will never believe that unless she quits comparing her relationship with D to the one he has with me or Ka.
>Probably a combination of you being the newest addition to the mix, feeling >of insecurity (why would anyone need a third ), the fact that she and Ki are >friends and more involved on every level with each other than you are with >them.
Probably true. I'm trying not to worry too much about it. That's her little red wagon and she has deal with it. And I do at times feel like an outsider because of their close involvement with each other. But, the truth is, I don't won't be as involved with either of them as they are with each other.
>Ka sounds like she agrees to things for the fear of losing D that she is really >not comfortable with, and then reacts with passive aggression when she >starts feeling too uncomfortable.
>And the worms are wiggling out their from the can as it is. Nothing >compares to good communication. Though I think rather than come to Ka >and say "I feel you have a double-standard when it comes to me" to say >something more like "I am concerned that when we agree on something, you >don't seem comfortable enough to voice your opinions, and I fear it might >be building resentment between us" might be the beginning of a lot less >defensive conversation.
Those are very good points. I hadn't thought of in quite that way, but it makes sense. And I like your suggestion of approaching her in a non-confrontational way. I do want avoid defensiveness on all sides.
>Good for you! Your journey is yours, you don't need to compare it with >anyone else's. If you feel you have sacrificed for this relationship, you >need to own up to it and not blame others for making you compromise.
I agree whole-heartedly. It is my journey and no matter what anyone else does, I'll continue it.
>Think of it this way; you have a lot to bring to this fourway relationship by >the way of your research and inner experience. If others don't seem like >they are putting in the same amount of effort, it is either because a) they >don't >feel the need to; b) they don't want to (scared, in denial, wishful thinking); c) they don't know how to; d) they are, >they are just hiding it >well. If it's c, you have a lot to give in terms of your understanding of poly >and mono/poly >dynamics, both shared by others and arising from your own >experience.
It's a combo of a, b & c. I do share things that I've learned from my own experience and from reading this forum, other lists, books, etc but sometimes it seems like doesn't really sink in. Guess that's the denial and wishful thinking kicking in. I sometimes get the impression that they both think (though especially Ka) that D will wake up one day and realize that he truly does only want/need one woman and it will her.
>What's with all this relayed communication and second-hand information? Go >to the horse's mouth for the information you need and want.
Valid point and something that we all agreed to do. And we have done it. We've called each other if something comes up and we need to discuss it. Sometimes D will share something with me about Ki or Ka because he's trying to understand and thinks I may have some insight. In those cases, I don't necessarily call them, but that is something to consider especially if something triggers me.
>Dealing with the feelings of "inequity" is on-going and I'm not sure if that will >ever go away completely.
>I agree; what you have in your hands in a polygynous (one man, multiple >wives) arrangement and they are >notorious for their problems. You don't >have the strong religious/cultural background nor the social sanctioning of >a peer group that these relationships normally have. Since you were raised >in a mono culture, and as long as you >don't all live together with an >equally split schedule in a true marriage-like arrangement, those feelings will >likely >persist (and living together would pose a whole new set of >difficulties). As you've figured out this is what you want >for the long-term >and no longer harbour wishes of things turning monogamous with him, these >kind of issues can >be dealt with, however.
All of this is true. It has been very difficult to internalize that what we shared isn't "wrong" or a sin. All four of us are Christian - grew up in mainstream Protestant denominations where the only proper place for sex was within a monogamous marriage between one man and one woman. And D considers us his wives, not his girlfriends or his "women".
I know that we can deal with any issues that come our way. Sometimes, I just get frustrated when I think that issues have been handled only to have them pop up again. Of course, I suppose that means that they weren't really handled...