Thread: SlutWalk
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:51 PM
Isaac Isaac is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisling View Post
Sorry - end rant
You do not need to apologize for telling your story... You deserve no shame for what was done to you, and it is important that those of us who have not and cannot experience this to hear from those who have. I appreciate hearing a first hand perspective on the matter, and I can only (attempt to) imagine how victim blaming (even of the sort that is taking place in this thread) impacts you more than those of us who never have (and never can) experience what you have gone through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisling View Post
For all those who consider what a woman wears dictates the severity of the crime. What would someone think if a poly woman with multiple male partners is raped by a stranger (or a friend), is she tarred with the same brush as someone in tight clothing? She too is advertising that she is sexually available and capable of servicing a mans needs.
This is a fantastic point. Being poly is yet another marginalized position in society (being a woman is the other one we are discussing here). People in these positions are easily (and arbitrarily) stripped of their rights, rights that they are entitled to by virtue of being human.

Honestly, I have been quite surprised reading the responses here.... I had thought (hoped?) that more of those on a message board about polyamoury (something I see as progressive and inclusive) would have critically examined the myths and biases we are fed every day by mainstream culture/corporate media/etc... I am disappointed to hear so many of these common and damaging beliefs reiterated here, by people I can tell (from the little I have read on this board) are well intentioned and intelligent.


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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
That is why it is up to us to be our own first line of defence.
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
again it becomes a matter of knowing what can trigger some one to target us and avoid it.
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
but if a person is triggered to rape by a specific stimulus I think it behooves us to avoid that stimulus.
These are just three instances among many, in which you repeatedly de-gender the conversation. There is no "us" who is targeted by "one," and there is no "we" avoiding the "stimulus." You and I are not included in the folks who are told what to wear and how to behave. Again, the difference between things like helmets, and other things that include everybody equally, and this discussion we are having, is that sexual assault and victim blaming is largely an issue for women and not men. Women are the "us" and the "we," and the "one" you speak of is men (I'll say it again so we don't digress into the 'men get raped too' debate: not all survivors are women and not all perpetrators are men... but a huge majority are).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
When I look at this topic I do usually create a very specific rapist as an example..one that preys on a certain look and may not reflect statistical evidence. If the statistical information supports the idea that how women dress is not a stimulus then that should be just as wide spread as any other information. I don't see any personal attack at all

I think we do need to teach boys and young men to treat women with respect..and shit like popular music videos and a lot of objectifying porn are not helping the matter. I also think girls should be taught to be smart about understanding that not all boys/men are taught effectively. I think girls and young women do need to take some responsibility for ignoring this fact.
THERE IS NO STIMULUS. You acknowledge that there is NO evidence to support that how a woman dresses has an effect on whether or not she is raped (nor does behavior, age, whether she's had sex before, etc), and then in the same breath perpetuate the myth that if women are "smart" and understand that if they take certain precautions they are less likely to get raped. The later belief is completely refuted by the former fact. There is no fact that women and girls are allegedly ignoring. They can be and are raped regardless of what they do/wear/etc. It makes NO SENSE, understanding this fact, to put any responsibility on them to be "smart" about the way they are in the world... in fact, well worse than not making sense, the placement of this (however small bit of) responsibility on victims shifts responsibility from perpetrators, reinforcing their belief that they can get away with mistreating other people, thereby allowing them to remain comfortable in a society that condones their behavior , at best complicity, and at worst actively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
...dress like a slut, expect to be treated like a slut.
My immediate response to this is absolute disgust. However well intentioned you may be, the cultural context in which you say this renders the statement extremely violent. Do you know how this very statement and ones like it are used against rape victims?

Beyond that response, I wonder: what is a 'slut,' anyway? Can you define it for me? And then, what in that definition renders a 'slut' an acceptable target of violence? If a woman dresses like she 'wants sex,' does she not still get to choose with whom, where, when, and how? Shouldn't we all ALWAYS be granted this right? Nothing any women (or anybody else, for that matter) can do or wear - potentially baring some extreme exceptions, if you're of the opinion that people should get what they deserve... for example in the case of mass murderers or something.... fyi, I'm not - gives any of us the right to deny her of this choice.
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Last edited by Isaac; 05-17-2011 at 09:55 PM.
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