[continued from above]
In Post #59, kdt26417 said:
I mean people aren't seriously trying to tell me, are they, that African Americans aren't attending poly get-togethers because I and other bigots are calling them blacks? If I found the right "magic word" to call them, would they suddenly start attending the poly get-togethers that they were staying away from before?
And in Post #73, ColorsWolf suggested:
"Here's an idea: how about calling them 'people?'"
And kdt26417 now replies:
O'pe. Once again I've been caught secretly thinking "black" people aren't really people.
I don't suppose I could restate my former statement? to wit:
I mean people aren't seriously trying to tell me, are they, that certain other people aren't attending poly get-togethers because I and other bigots are calling them "blacks?" If I called them "people," would they then suddenly start attending the poly get-togethers that they were staying away from before?
This concludes my correction of that paragraph. Let me know if further corrections are needed.
I'll probably never live amongst many of the people we're talking about here. But some of those people are talking to us on this thread, board, and forum. That's a start.
And I've got my experience as a missionary in Detroit to bolster whatever I can learn about various people now. I guess it doesn't seem like much, but hey, look at this thread (and its "sister thread
"). People on both sides of the cultural fence being discussed here have made some remarkable verbal connections with each other and, in my mind, broken down some significant cultural barriers. So if the two groups of people can keep conversing with each other, then understanding will increase all around and I suspect poly potlucks everywhere will start to look more "colorful." I'd like that!
ColorsWolf, I understand that I can't descry anything from a person I've barely met except what they (or their avatar) look/s like. Imagination fills in the gaps; it's human nature. But I get that the gaps are filled by imagination alone, which may more may not include one whit of reality. I guess I just find that the occasional interactions I have with people of the culture in question, both live and on the net, both private and public, will slowly help me build up a rapport with them and persuade (even one or two of) them to join me in a poly get-together sometime. I don't take that as a guarantee, just as a hope.
Re (from LovingRadiance
"No one would even know wtf he was talking about if he started a thread on the topic without descriptives."
Picture this thread title: "Polyamory and People."
"Ironically -- I took the question to another venue -- where I *know* there are people who identify as racial minorities in the U.S.. Because *I can see their photos.*
I asked them *personally* about discussing the topic and used the *exact* words that kdt used -- as a quote.
They responded positively that they would love to communicate with him and appreciated his interest."
O'pe. And I need to follow through on that. Sorry I've left your PM on the back burner for so long; that's not usually like me. I'll try to get to it, uh, when I'm done with this post perhaps.
"Maybe the *real* issue is that people who *don't want to discuss it should just not discuss it* and people who do want to -- can. "
ColorsWolf, you do make it really really hard for me to talk about the issues that I wanted to talk about in this thread. It seems to me like almost every post I write, you find fault with it, especially fault in its terminology, and point to that fault as if it were proof that I hate, despise, or look down on these other people I've been trying to talk about. Don't you think that if I hated said people that much, I'd be pleased as punch that they leave me alone at my poly meetings? But instead, I'm trying to figure out how to convey to them enough of my welcome, warmth, and eagerness to rub shoulders with them, to persuade them to join me and my fellow other people. If this is a con job by me, it's a hell of a con job. So far only you and Dirtclustit have been able to see through it.
... wow that deserves to be a post in this thread -- and in the other thread I started about cultural issues. Will have to see if I can get it planted there as well.
Yes, precisely: An ignorant ally is better than a sagacious enemy. Ignorant allies are willing to be taught and trained. Sagacious enemies figure they already know what they need to know and certainly aren't going to take instruction from the likes of *me!*
What it really seems to boil down to is that we have two (actually many) groups of people who've been marginalized by a certain other group of people. The situation is a big fat mess, and I don't think we can expect to find a perfect starting place to start from in trying to pick up the mess.
It's like when a hurricane or an F4+ rips through a bunch of neighborhoods. Rubble everywhere. Homes in shambles. Infrastructure gone. Live wires dancing on the streets. Roads blocked by uprooted trees and other debris. What more perfect place to start could there be than just picking up a board somewhere, and putting it in a "discard pile." It doesn't put a dent in the mess, but it's as good a way to start the clean-up (and re-building) as any.
And when someone else starts trying to clear a tree off the road, you don't yell, "Hey! We're not working on trees and roads now, we're working on boards! Get over here and help me." People in the midst of a great big mess need to treat each other courteously and considerately if they are to hold their morale together and attempt to wrest a new and better world out of the bitter jaws of disaster.
Race relations are a disaster. Peoples of both/multiple cultures are attempting to clean up the mess. The work is distressing and frustrating. Which is exactly why we all need to learn to exercise some patience and speak civilly and compassionately to one another. The mess (and lives lost) is bad enough without us bickering over every little word.