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Old 11-16-2013, 07:25 AM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Yelm, Washington
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Default Part 2 of 2

[continued from above]

@ Dirtclustit ... I'll try my best not to excuse myself, and as token of that, I'll admit that my previous-to-last post was rather retributive in its tone and attitude. Maybe at the time I felt justified, given the numerous times ColorsWolf has (inadvertently?) stomped on the feelings I entrusted into his care. But retaliation is never the answer, and here I am, quite guilty of it. I'm not proud of that.

And FWIW, I'm glad ColorsWolf finally has a friend around here, someone who's got his back when the rest of us are "going after him" and "tearing his dreams for all living things down" in a sort of "feeding frenzy." No one should have to suffer that much persecution alone. So it is good in my perspective that you have stood by his side at this time, and I suppose I should even ask you to continue in that noble service, even if you do so only because you happen to agree with him.

But I wonder. Does ColorsWolf (and Dirtclustit, do you) care about my feelings? about the pain I've suffered, both in losing pets, and in times just prior to a new pet rescuing me from my sufferings? Do you care about the feelings of the non-human people I loved, cared for, and then lost forever in poignant sickness, injury, and death? You seem to care more about proving me wrong and winning an argument with me than you do hearing me with your heart for a moment. These angry/floundering/intense posts I've posted about my own pets have drawn shitloads of tears out of me and I can't even remember the last time I cried like that. I barely let one or two stray tears escape when my wife died.

In my opinion, I do my best to consider new ideas and implement them into my life and mind if I can tell they're an improvement over my previous life and mind. I see that you disagree. I'm sorry we can't be friends (not even disagreeing friends) in that regard (and others?).

I see that I have deeply offended you by my doting/smothering attitude towards domestic (and even wild) non-human persons. Sorry to be such a "helicopter parent" to them, I think it's the best thing to do, and can't in good conscience think otherwise without specific, indisputable examples of proof that I'm wrong.

Everyone I know "lies to themselves," subconsciously. I don't have the solution for wiping out that vice, which doesn't mean the solution doesn't exist, nor that I won't (continue to) try to think of one.

You feel that I'm a dishonest person. That I purposely believe in false things. Sorry but there's just no agreement to be had between us in that area. I feel I try quite hard to believe in true things, though I certainly don't think I constantly succeed.

So now I'm the predator, and you and ColorsWolf are my prey? Not a thing I can do to disprove that. I respect your right to believe all that about me, and reserve my own right to believe differently at the same time.

Bragging alert: I don't think anyone else on this site has tried as hard as I have to understand, accept, and agree (as much as I honestly and in good conscience could) with ColorsWolf. He has often "bitten my hand" when I reached out to touch him. It's been neither fun nor easy. I may indeed give up on it at some point. But at the moment, Dirtclustit, it is you and I who must decide whether we ought to be conversing with each other.

Re: human pets ... I was referring to those humans who willingly and wantingly call themselves pets, and seek out the role with other humans who'll call themselves masters. I know that it's a kink that does exist out there, even if I don't have numbers, percentages, or statistics. Probably not a big number, to be fair, but.

You know, I'm vanilla, but in a "non-kink" way I'm a pet. I don't have a job. I hardly do a lick of work around the house. My two companions do all the heavy lifting for me, while showing me gracious affection. They literally provide me with whatever access to good-quality food/water I need. And they spend time with me, chatting, eating, watching TV, whatever. Sounds an awful lot to me like I'm a human pet. They obviously keep me *only* because they love me and like my company, because that's *all* I really offer them in return.

Re: saying "what's done is done" and using it as an excuse to continue doing it ... as I stated elsewhere, we could certainly loose our pets into the wilds and leave them there until, after some ten thousand years, their long-lost genetic spirit to live alone, independent, and free was restored. I just happen to think that ten thousand years is too steep a price to pay for that solution.

"When we as individuals do wrong, as individuals or as a people, the attitude of there is nothing we can do about it, it was an honest mistake, let's move on, is not the same as doing the next right thing ..."
Oh, that seems exposed to private interpretation to me. What's to be done about white Americans enslaving black Africans, or the Nazis killing unnumbered innocents? In those two cases, we don't exactly have any choice besides moving on.

As discussed in the Polyamory and Racial Minorities thread, reparations are a vain and hopeless attempt at "fixing the past." And what is "the next right thing" we should be doing to fix the Holocaust? resurrect the dead? turn back the clock? We've already tried to give the Jews their traditional Holy Lands back, but that almost seems to have done little more for them than plunge them into a perpetual state of war with their neighbors. So no, I don't always think it's always wise or even possible to just try to "go back to the way things were."

Too proud/foolish to admit my mistakes? How, then, do I manage to berate myself for numberless mistakes every day? Maybe my problem is that I make so many mistakes I can't wrap my mind around all of them.

"But don't take my word for it, feel free to choose what you will recognize as truth, just remember if you don't respect truth, you have no right to complain it was impossible to hear truth, when it was you who consciously chose not to listen."
I don't respond well to threats of any kind, and I'm hearing a threat in that paragraph. If we can reason together, then we're talking. But saying, "Ohhh you'll get yours" to me does nothing but let me know I have (yet another) enemy here. That's too bad. See, the cool thing about friendship is that friends can have civil discussions about things with each other, and respect each other's experiences and resulting perspectives.

And in most cases, the "real truth" is all in the details. Yes he/she (my pet) may be called a "slave," but what's the actual nature of his/her slavery/life? What are the details?

And it's the details that we've been trying to discuss in this thread. Freedom is a big wide word (like love) that can mean so many things. My pets aren't free to come indoors and go outdoors as they please, but they are free from 99% of the cares of the world. That's a pretty decent pay-off if you asked me. If I could ask my pets, I'm sure I would. But since I can't, I make the best guess available to my far-from-perfect mind.

In the future, please provide more specifics, examples, and details of how I'm acting so horrible. Then at least we'd have a basis for a clean debate (though a considerate exchange of ideas would be better). Right now all we've got is, "You scumbag, Kevin. You don't care about anything except your dirty lies and excuses."

Oh I get that message loud and clear. Guess you're free to fire away if you've got more to tell me. I'm not inclined to block fellow members, I think it's too "chicken" and "ostrich-with-head-in-sand" for me. So I guess that means you can credit me for courage (or is it masochism) in that regard?

Kevin T.
Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"

Last edited by kdt26417; 11-16-2013 at 07:51 AM.
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