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Old 11-01-2013, 02:38 AM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Olympia, Washington
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Okay, I'm admittedly taken quite off my balance/guard by your appealing responses in those last two posts, so, well, thank you, and I'm glad we can still converse and hopefully exchange some interesting ideas. Mind you, I still feel that, for my own sake, I need to maintain a hard line as laid out in my yesterday's post. In other words, I can't reset the counter, in spite of your renewed kindness today. We *must* continue to speak to each other in this good-spirited fashion, otherwise I still feel that I'll have to withdraw from the conversation. Please don't hold that against me, I'm just not a strong enough person to go back to "that dark place" again.

Re:
Quote:
"I'm sorry, I'm just so used to arguing constantly on other forums where many people don't even have a logical common shared agreed point to start and mostly are just insults directed at me for their amusement."
If I have participated in *any* way to that sort of thing (especially any insult directed at you "for my amusement"), then I deeply apologize. I know what it's like to suffer internally in a way that people on the outside can't see or appreciate. It's no laughing matter. Whatever your struggles and/or conflicts have been, I take those as signs of internal suffering and as such, realize that I have no business giving you a bad time about any of it. I need to do better about realizing that other people are almost always doing the best they possibly can, even if it doesn't seem so obvious to my perception.

Yes, upsetness is a tragic waste of the precious little amount of time we have in this mortal life. I myself wish I didn't waste so much of my own time on upsetness. It really cripples me and stops me from basking in the simple joys of life.

Starting from my October 18 post, just about every post I've "sent your way" has been sent in a spirit of wanting to understand better and work with you in accomplishing your objectives on this thread. Yes, often I did so in a misguided or even disagreeable way, but even so it was ever in the hope that we could all end up understanding, appreciating, and helping each other better.

If you ever want to share more about your past, I am here and listening. I don't mean to pry with any of my questions (though I may still have a question now and then).

No, there's no point in living in regret, and I don't think you're under any obligation to find (and apologize to) all the people you think you might have wronged in the past. Bygones are bygones, as far as that's concerned. The here and now is what really counts.

Re: nudists ... probably more "psychologically nude/exposed/vulnerable?" Yes, in most cases. In all cases? I don't know but I doubt it. As you yourself said, every individual is unique and different. I think most or all of us have the trait of being more comfortable about revealing some parts of ourselves than other parts. Some people are very outgoing while others are rather introverted, for example. I will definitely admit to protecting/concealing parts of my psyche in addition to physically clothing myself, although I try to be as candid as possible toward my immediate poly companions.

Sooo ... why do people hide stuff about themselves? Shame is certainly one reason. But it might also be a nervous way of shielding other people from our less-pleasant traits. How easy is it to frankly tell someone, for example, "I have anger issues," without actually putting those issues on graphic display? In that sense, the manner in which one exposes itself is pretty important, especially when it's one's psyche that one is revealing.

Re:
Quote:
"Telling one's children 'they are disgusting filthy creatures and they should feel bad for even existing' as a reason to 'encourage them to "cover themselves"' is in fact inflicting 'childhood trauma' upon them in and of itself."
Oh absolutely. And although I was luckily spared that particular brand of childhood trauma, it's amazing how close my mom often came to saying "you're a disgusting filthy creature who should feel bad for even existing," for many many reasons even if nudity wasn't one of them. And yes, it was always a "justified" means to an end: to verbally discipline (i.e. shame) me into behaving in what she considered a socially acceptable manner. Spare the rod, spoil the child, right? and my mom was physically abusive too, but the verbal abuse was the worst.

Clothing (in my house growing up) wasn't approached in quite that mean of a way, it was more like something that we *were* going to do "because Mom said so." How ironic when she herself indulged in some nudity around our house. One standard for adults, another for children? I don't know. But that's how we were "trained" to keep ourselves clothed. Not by shame -- just by force. Similar to how all my mom's sons were "trained" to serve as missionaries for the church. There was never any question about whether you were going to serve a mission. You *were* going to do it, "cause Mom says so."

I don't know whether you were conditioned to be clothed by shame, e.g. talk such as "you're a disgusting filthy creature who should feel bad for even existing," but if that's how clothing became a part of your life, then I think that's pretty rotten (of your folks) and am sorry you were treated that way. I guess that would leave anyone with a bad taste in their mouth about clothing in general.

Re:
Quote:
"It's not that that article you brought up isn't interesting, it's just pointless to get upset over."
Oh come on, it'll be fun.

Nobutseriously, isn't that statement from that article at least a little shocking, even if it's not upsetting? I thought it was way shocking myself. I was like, "What?"

Fortunately, I'm pretty sure that person's opinion was not a common opinion at all, otherwise I'd be (a little more) worried about all of us as a society. "Breastfeeding: for adults only." Yeah ... now that's a weird concept.

Okay, enough rambling from me. I'm sure I'll have even more to say in future posts, I always do.

Regards,
Kevin T.
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