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Old 10-29-2013, 10:29 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Yelm, Washington
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Guess I just have issues with the idea that I'm some kind of special-needs student who can't even grasp the subject material let alone contribute to it. I have no objections to whatever you want to post, and I'm sure others will be able to understand and appreciate it, better than I did.

I don't think "scared off" is a fair characterization of my "sudden relative reticence" (how much do other members usually write in one thread anyway?). Instead, I think it's sensible for me to refrain from taking part in a dialog that only seems to make you more and more upset. Who's it helping?

I respect your right to your own opinions and sympathize with any past trauma you have experienced. No need for me to aggravate any of that by asking pesky questions that cast "doubts" on the important message you're trying to convey.

So let's see what happens when I do have something to say, and if it perhaps illustrates what I'm getting at. If it doesn't, hey, I can handle being wrong.

Re:
Quote:
"In regards to my statements on 'wild creatures:' you are right, I'm sorry, I will say that 'from my knowledge of interactions between non-wild Humans and and wild creatures' I have seen this kind of behavior of 'caution' that could easily become 'violent.'"
Right. Does wild-animal-on-human violence ever occur? It does. Everyone dreads the idea of crossing paths with an angry grizzly bear. For that matter, who wants to get stung by a bee?

But the idea that these animals attack because they're offended by an "unpermitted touch" is far outside the realm of my knowledge and experience with any wild animals. What I've found is that in most cases, a wild animal will only attack a human as a do-or-die "last resort." They're not "looking for an excuse." Every animal I've ever encountered in the wild has shied away from me. Its only goal seemed to be to distance itself from me and escape my notice. Given this dynamic, how am I supposed to even get close enough to this wild animal to touch it without its permission?

It seems to me that you yourself asserted that wild animals and humans don't have a common system of communication. If that's true, then how is a wild animal even supposed to give me permission to touch it? It doesn't have the means to communicate with me.

Yes it's true that we don't know anything for sure. I don't know that I'm not just a brain in a vat. But there is such a thing as *probability.* Some things are *more likely* to be the case based on the information that we have.

Re:
Quote:
"I said when I was in highschool growing through puberty I had a very violent mentality."
Essentially yes you did, but you didn't really go into your pre-high-school experiences, which surely must have contributed to your high-school experiences in some way. People just don't normally attack other people for the mere cause of an unpermitted touch. Either you're dealing with some nasty genetic material, or your boundaries were somehow seriously violated before you ever arrived at high school (or both).

Look, I hated high school, plain and simple. But I didn't express my hatred by physically attacking other students. I rather expressed it by trying to stay the hell away from everyone, avoiding social interactions, and just in general having a lonesome miserable time because I was totally isolated from human interaction. Add to that the fact that my parents (okay really my mother) put enormous pressure on me to get acceptable grades (a C was not acceptable), and I just had all the more reason to hate school. Too bad, since it is my natural inclination to be interested in learning about lots of subjects. I liked my teachers. I hated my peers and my parents.

And *I* was an abnormality. The vast majority of students there enjoyed their school experience, had fun with each other, and performed well in their classes. So can you see how unusual it is for a high school student to physically attack another student at the cause of a mere unpermitted touch? For crying out loud, high schools are full of students milling to and fro. People accidentally brush up against each other all the time. Does that kind of touch call for permission?

That's nice that homeschooling helped shelter you from the kind of experiences that every high-school student has. And I suppose you could argue that therefore, we should all be homeschooled. I am actually not a fan of public schooling as a whole. But people are normally able to at least physically contain themselves, even when exposed to a less-than-ideal environment.

Other than that, you haven't been (logged on or) posting much lately, perhaps because you don't normally log on over the weekends, but the point is, I don't have much else I can respond to right now. I guess you'll have to post some more if you're interested in more of my outlook. But I *cannot* guarantee that I'm going to see the things the way you suppose I would or ought to see them.

Perhaps it would be helpful to invest in an awareness of how very different people's various perspectives are? You can't "save the world" with your enlightened ideas, no matter how superior they are, unless you can first relate to your audience on an eye-to-eye level. Remember how Jesus hung out with thieves and prostitutes, and had a rapport with them? The Pharisees thought that was just awful of him, and proof that he was some kind of degraded person. But Jesus wasn't interested in hanging out with the Pharisees. That was the social group that he had much less hope for.

In a nutshell, there may be such a thing as being "too perfect." I may come across as some kind of annoying moron, but my ideas have value to me, just as your ideas have value to you, and everyone desires acceptance, appreciation, and validation. Can you send those things out, as much as you desire to receive them from others?

Those are the tough questions I have for you to answer in this post. You can ignore them, you can rage at them, you can dismiss them by claiming "I obviously didn't read what you wrote," but you can't un-ask them.

The one other thing I hope you'll consider is that no matter how stupid someone else's post is, it doesn't erase any of your posts. Your posts are all here, perfectly intact, available for anyone to re-read and gain a better understanding of anytime they want to or are able to. Thus, just because someone doesn't "get" what you're saying, doesn't mean they've somehow ruined your message. Your message is still right there, safely preserved for all of Polyamory.com to read and comprehend. Is it really that important that I, one single member, be part of the "enlightened flock?" Heck, why can't I continue to be some dumb unenlightened person who thinks he has to clothe himself because it's too scary for him to expose himself to the world? With seven billion people on the planet, can't some of us be hopeless cases?

So please continue to post your thoughts and insights here, and do not let me be a deterrent to that whether I talk, agree, comprehend, or whatever. There are tons of people you can help here besides me.

In the meantime, I am perfectly willing to accept and appreciate your contributions, no matter what my ability to comprehend them is. There may be one English language, but no two people speak/understand that language in quite the same way. That's okay. Polyamory.com is a big enough place to make it possible for any number of people to develop common understandings. That's what I value the site for.

In conclusion, I re-iterate my regret for any offense I have caused. Anything I have said, I have only said in the spirit of sharing different ideas, and hoping to understand. If I fail in that ideal, it's my failure and mine alone. No one else has to take responsibility for it. You don't have to be responsible for how or whether I express myself. Just share your message as best you can, and have faith that the people who need to get it, will get it.

Respectfully,
Kevin T.
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