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Old 02-05-2010, 02:50 AM
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Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I was sincere, expressed confusion and asked you for help in understanding where you were coming from, you responded with sarcasm. How is that "proporitionate to the manner" I addressed you or your views?
And where is it that I "sink into fantasy"?

Yes which is why I bring up that you talking down to me fits. Talking down to someone, being sarcastic in a way that paints them negatively in other people's eyes can cause
"To relegate or confine to a lower or outer limit or edge, as of social standing."
within the social environment you share with that person.
My response is your own post:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
LMAO. Seriously LMAO Mono!
I think you hit the nail on the head with the masking of a different issue.
It's too clear that the "youngun's here are repeating that they don't feel marginalized, so evidently it's not an age issue HERE. It COULD BE somewhere else-but not here and now where you are and not where I am either.

On the other hand it seems obvious that there is a lot of contention also being masked as "well no... you just don't understand..." As I said to GG today amidst tears and strife-if you aren't REAL with someone, upfront and honest about your TRUEST needs/intentions/emotions, then you can't possibly expecte them to understand. So all of this clear contention that isn't identified openly and honestly is pretty........boring to me.
Yes I said boring.
I'm all for fixing issues-but at this point it would seem that the "issue" brought up by this thread, either doesn't exist in this environment (per the responses from the "youngun's who aren't experiencing it) or they are full of crap (no offense intended) and saying that they "feel fine" when they don't.
As there is no way for us to FOR SURE know one way or the other, maybe it's time to move on to topics that DO pertain.... Because as you pointed out-all of this theoretic blah blah is just making the "poly community" look ridiculous on a large scale.
I know I was medicated and under duress-but it seems to me that all of this started with an argument over wether or nor poly included swinging and/or fuck buddies. That argument proved futile as the general concensus was that no one could come to an agreement and so we've moved on to age...
We're freaking PEOPLE as River said, WE'RE ALL JUST F'ING PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH so lets just agree that there ARE different types of people doing different types of things, with different types of goals, intentions, desires, fears, loves, hurts etc and THAT is ok.

And while we're on the topic-if we're going to keep throwing around the word Marginalization-can someone just start a thread on what the hell marginalization IS so we can come to some sort of understanding on THAT?
Because so far I've read REPEATED posts on "I don't feel or see marginalization of this that or the other kind" in my community and a handful of posts saying it's a huge problem.
LR, you expressed your total lack of respect for those in this thread who were trying to address the issue of marginalization. You stated some other issue was being masked by the topic of marginalization, dismissing the views raised as "real" as opposed to whatever you're imagining lies beneath. That is fantasy and utterly ignoring actual questions and topics raised. You could also state that everyone here are actually octopi masquerading as human beings. It would be no less disconnected or based in fantasy.

You stated that the perceived appearance of the poly community as "ridiculous" should somehow influence whether these issues are addressed. That's superficial.

Somehow you managed to ignore those who did say they have felt marginalized based on age. There are those who stated they did not feel marginalized but were concerned about others who did. There were some who refrained from stating whether they felt marginalized at all. For you to then tell others maybe it's time to move on to topics that "DO pertain" as though marginalization does not, because to you it does not seem to be an issue within this forum (where of course it is) is condescending and dismissive.

Yeah, it is easy to blithely and glibly say, we're all people and we should agree that their are different types of people. However many have to struggle every day simply for being different. They are marginalized. They don't usually gain the rights to a full life unless others understand their struggle, the part we all play in that struggle, and seek to stop the prejudices that reinforce marginalization alongside them. Small scale or large.

Is it really then a surprise to be treated in the dismissive haughty way you've treated others because the topic doesn't matter to you? Why should you not be treated in the manner you've addressed this thread and those who participate in it?

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I don't understand why you think that getting pm's makes me feel special. I was pointing out that due to several pm's expressing their confusion about what you MEAN and unwillingness to ask because of the long (more complicated) texts that follow I chose to ask you. But you didn't give a simple concise answer even when asked a simple, respectful question that also acknowledged confusion on the part of the questioner (me). You instead talked down to me and answered with yet more complicated jargon.
It was reminiscent of poisonous tactics some indulge in. He said, she said. And you showed the need to repeat it more than once as though it was important. I simply stated it wasn't really as we all get PMs. Surely you do not think you and I alone share the views we've expressed here. It does not surprise me that others agree with me or disagree with me. But it seems to be of high value for you.

Perhaps you feel your views are strengthened somehow by whispers outside the open forum. PMs have no relevance to the topic being discussed and you've yet to show a reason why they should have significance. I don't address shadowy figures (or introduce them lol) anymore than I address fantastical motives that have been brought into this discussion from who knows where. I respond to what is actually said not rumored. For someone who speaks about the "real" you've brought a lot of shallowness to the foreground.

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
If I ask a doctor for him to speak "basic English" in explaining my health issues because I was confused about what he meant, I would expect that he would take a moment to figure out a simpler way to state his point, not a more or equally complicated one.

I'm sorry if you find it rare, that's not a problem I've had. When I have time to be on the board-I respond to the topic at hand regularly with only a few off topic comments and those only when pertinent to the OP.
I have found in r/l that if a person insists on giving long-winded thoughts to a complicated topic when talking to people who lack comprehension-they tend to get the "i'm lost in lala land" stare and no return conversation.
With ALL due respect, I know that personally reading the font you use gives me a headache-so i try to limit myself to doing so only if you are talking specifically to me.
Additionally it seems that you tend to tear apart every sentence of every post that is directed at you, instead of just answering the basic premise and accepting examples as just examples that don't need to be addressed specifically since they aren't specific to the topic. I think this may be one reason a number of people feel that you are "interrogating" them.
There seems to be no room in conversing with you for them to speak without you analyzing each word, it's.... like being under the gun really. You may not "mean it that way" but if that's how it comes across to more than one person-it seems reasonable to assume that it's a common understanding of what those actions mean.

For example, I am "honest to a fault". I have had to learn that often times people take that honesty to mean I don't like them. So I've learned to pre-curse it with "You know I love you-but..." that way I am actively addressing their insecurities (or the potential in activities where I am in control-of them feeling marginalized) before I go on to make my point.
Perhaps it's my turn to get bored. I don't deal with others in a shallow manner. I suppose it then follows that I don't deal well with shallow and/or self unaware people. I do not feel a need to sugar coat my views. I believe people have personal responsibility to deal with their faults and shortcomings and not constantly have others deal for them. I know I do not understand everything therefore I make an effort to know. I do not blame others when I do not. This includes knowing other people and understanding their views as well as being aware of the world. I don't get general or "basic" when it comes to something serious like that. I don't lie or pretend. We are all different here. Obviously what we feel is needed in this discussion (which isn't about cake if you haven't noticed) and in life varies. Therefore I'm going to reject your characterization and you are free to reject mine. I wish you joy in the unexamined life, ignorance is bliss, skimming the surface approach.

*laughs* Whoo. "A number of people." "More than one person." Funny enough to be sad with the he said she said.

I also don't feel the need to justify or validate myself through other people.

This is where I get off on the degenerating spiral into nowhere and return to the topic of marginalization with those who wish to talk about it and methods of addressing it.

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~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~

Last edited by Ravenesque; 02-05-2010 at 02:59 AM.
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