GalaGirl, if you get a chance to read this I just want to express how helpful it is for me to reread your response a couple of months after this issue came up. Things have only gotten worse.
Originally Posted by GalaGirl
Could look out for YOUR well being. If past experience taught you that getting roped in got you dumped or hurt? Could not allow yourself to get sucked in to this one. Could express your frustration on the board and .... WAIT.
Could let him deal with that relationship tier in the polymath.
He's in the (Red + Jordan) thing -- you are not. If either tries to suck you in past your comfort zone -- say so. "This is sucking me in past my comfort zone. Do not do that. Respect my limit. Sort it out with each other."
You could tell Red you are willing to give him space to go sort it out with his wife. And let him deal with it.
If his wife asked him to break up with you, HE could answer her.
- Yes, I will break up with her.
- No I will not break up with her.
You don't have to get sucked into drama there. Let him own his deal.
You could not offer compromises that do not meet your OWN needs. Since you have now given a compromise with no time limit, could correct that to give a time limit then. Then you aren't left in limbo forever.
"I am willing, as a short term compromise, to not have any sleepovers for the next 3 months with Red to give you both the time and space to sort out your boundaries and agreements since sleepovers seem to be a trigger. After that time I would like to check in and know where things stand. I am willing to hear of a plan if you guys come up with one to deal with the trigger. I am willing to help create that plan or help support the plan if appropriate and reasonable for me to do. I am not willing to NEVER have overnights with my BF. This does not meet my own long term needs. Thank you for listening."
Then let them sort it out. When you get a Final Word, then you can choose your next behavior.
If Red is not free to share his time with you in a way that meets your sleepover needs, you could accept it as a limit of his because he has agreements to meet with his other partner.
- You could let go of wanting sleepovers and accept the limit.
- Or could let go of him as a BF.
If Red does not want his own time management to have to account for her wants, needs, and limits or agreements they have? He could sort out that business with her himself
since he's the one in relationship with her. Maybe he no longer wants that relationship with those limits. It is for him to discern and then to renegotiate agreements or terminate relationship.
Again... Why are YOU getting sucked into it?
You could not get sucked into it -- have it as a limit for yourself.
Well, I got very hurt by the compromise I proposed. Red and I broke up because it seemed like the best thing for his marriage. Red and I still feel passionately about each other, but both of us feel burned and exhausted from the complication this has brought into our lives.
He told Jordan that he wouldn't break up with me or accept monogamy. However, he was put in the middle of the issue between Jordan and I. He brought up trying to date again but I'm still very wary of Jordan and getting involved in their marriage again.
I tried to set a limit not to get involved, but it's very difficult not to be there for Red when he is upset about something that happened with Jordan. At least half the time they hang out, he's bummed afterwards for a couple of days. When Jordan talks to me, she just complains about him. Nice comments are a self-conscious afterthought when she talks about him. I hate to see him be treated so disrespectfully, and I've told Jordan not to say things like that to me because it makes me feel defensive.
Originally Posted by GalaGirl
Do not be writing your metamour letters and getting all up in their marriage biz. That adds to your problems, not take away from your problems.
With her -- all you have to do is be generous with Red's time and encourage them to sort themselves out while respecting your own wants, needs, and limits in the meanwhile. If you wish to be free of crazy, you could not chase it down.
You could also not put Red in the middle. You could just let him determine for himself what he wants for himself and what he is willing to do or not.
I want more than anything to give them the space to work things out, even though I think Red would be much happier without her in his life. I know that he needs to figure that out for himself and he ultimately decides what's best for him. Jordan has been inconsiderate and blatantly indifferent to any needs I might have in my relationship with Red. Some quotes from her on the subject: "So what?" and "I'm incapable of compassion right now."
I wrote her that letter I discussed here, and she didn't respond. She reached out to me, essentially saying "Hey if you have a problem I don't want to hear about it but I think it's important we have open communication. Oh? You have a problem with some of my behavior? This conversation is over."
Red and I talked about breaking up about a week before we actually decided to, after that exchange between me and Jordan. I was hurt, even though it was mutual, and he is too.
Jordan used to date my other boyfriend, Tim, and she told me and Red that she broke up with him, but they're still in a semi-romantic relationship. After she didn't like my response to her "reaching out", she heard that Tim and I had plans that weekend and she texted him that she was "hurt he was going to a party with [me]" and that she wants to talk to him "because things with Red are changing." She was in an unhealthy relationship with Tim for a few months and has been dragging it out. Tim is frustrated about this, but he and I are talking openly and he is being respectful of my need for separation and I'm being supportive of his needs too.
Originally Posted by GalaGirl
In your own tier of the polymath -- where it is (you + Red)? If you need to not know about her drama -- could ask Red to not tell you about her drama then. For your own mental health needs and reduction of stress.
If your need is to be free of dealing in double standards, you could not choose to polyship in a primary-secondary format. There IS double standards in that open model configuration:
- Primary tier people get X.
- Secondary tier people get Y.
If you are now seeking a co-primaryship, talk to Red about that.
If you are still ok in a primary-secondaryship but want your Y stuff written out and honored by the primary and the meta -- ask for it written out. "I can expect ____ from you" and hold them accountable to the agreements. Stop stepping on your toes. Secondaries have rights.
If you did not consider it before, could consider it now.
If you find you could primary-secondaryship in general but NOT with this couple, could accept that personal limitation. Not compatible with them in that shape configuration.
I brought up eliminating the primary/secondary distinction to Red. He claimed to already be on board with that, and to have been attempting to treat Jordan and I as equals. However, she's still his wife and however dysfunctional their relationship seems, she is his primary, whether he calls her that or not. His actions and choices have shown that repeatedly.
Red and I would both like to continue seeing each other. I don't want to be secondary to a self-centered primary, and Jordan's making it very clear that she'd rather accuse me of intentionally hurting her than make an attempt to listen or compromise. In her head she has framed my attempts at expressing my needs as attacks on her.
When I met her, she seemed like an open minded and flexible woman I could experience positive polyamory with. I was even interested in dating her. Now I feel marginalized and hurt by her behavior and, even though Red and I broke up, she and I are still in a girl fight AND she chose this as the best time to reach out to Tim for emotional support. I feel wary of her intentions.
The polymath link you shared above was helpful, but what if I get to know her and rather than establishing trust, I'm starting to feel like trusting her is a mistake? Do I break up with two boyfriends just to avoid her? Do I try and work things out with her, and if so, HOW? Our needs seem to be in direct conflict.