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Old 01-14-2010, 05:32 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
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Ciel,

Nice post and good points !

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
The core problem for me is that lying and cheating seem to be becoming more and more accepted in society. That people making promises, whether wedding vows or legal contracts, do it with their fingers crossed behind their backs. Promises become less meaningful and trust gets eroded as a consequence.
I couldn't possibly agree more ! And I think there's a general shift happening there in the way of a desire to live more genuinely and transparently. But we're not there yet.
As an individual I'm also especially sensitive to any 'extremist' viewpoints. Call me a 'relativist' (but that's extreme too). The danger of extremist viewpoints is evident all around us from politics to religion. The reality is that the world is simply not B/W and therefore can't be navigated successfully in that manner. Even a plant - given the correct environment - will grow straight toward the light. Lacking that environment it WILL however bend & twist itself as necessary to get there. Such is the 'nature' of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciel;
When I lived in Germany I seemed to be with a crowd that all cheated on their spouses. ......... but I knew the spouses were (and thought they were the only one). The level of trust between these people was horrendously low,
Not to sidetrack the topic but having a few European friends also (Austria/Belgium) I really wonder whether what you witnessed (and how it was expressed to you) was down deep just an extension of their culture - basically a "don't ask-don't tell" which is VERY prevalent there, kind of painted over with a coating that was acceptable to the casual observer. Down deep it may have been more of a general acceptance of "I'm 'cheating on her' but I assume she's 'cheating' on me too so......hell - it's ONLY sex !" Not the way it should be but yet a step forward in some regards. Banishment of jealousy (as much as possible).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciel;
Like disapproving of smoking but buying someone cigarettes as a present - how does that stop them smoking,
Yea - I see what you are saying. But I fall back here too to my avoidance of extremism in any form. For example, I see smoking banned on whole properties even in the great outdoors. In places where it would be entirely possible for a person to smoke far away from any other person. Rules based on (supposedly) high ideals (good intentions) and freedom squashed. Dangerous ground to tread !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciel;
We cease to empower it when we choose not to make cheating on a loved one more acceptable than being honest with the people that we supposedly care about.
And don't you find it interesting that the hidden underlying piece of this is solely (or primarily) 'sex' ? Were the mentioned persons only connecting outside the relationship on a shared passion for say.....music....wouldn't the whole dynamic be so entirely different ! No need (usually) to lie or hide it.
So HMMMMMMM - what REALLY is at the root of this whole discussion indeed

Last edited by GroundedSpirit; 01-14-2010 at 05:34 PM.
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