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Old 03-09-2013, 01:49 PM
Matt Matt is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 89

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
You know what, you were right, I was wrong. It IS your right to completely ban someone from your life, and it IS your home, so I suppose that technically you can include that in the ban even if the other people who also live in that home might not want it for themselves at all. It's a choice that seems to me to be extremely compassionless to all involved (Si, FoL, the kids), but it is in fact your right, and, since you've said your compassion is absent, there's no use appealing to you on those grounds.

No, there's no use. Pardon my French. I've tried to find an ounce of fuck to give, but it's not happening. I'm not angry or anything. I'm just sure of what I want. No beating around the bush. No smiling and acting like it's just cool. No rolling over and playing dead. I can't be passive aggressive. That's how we got into this. I have to own my feelings and attempt to regulate emotions. I made the mistake of keeping things inside and letting it get to the point of no return. I didn't say anything when I knew it wasn't working. You live. You learn. Her girlfriend can come here, but I will be the one moving out. Then, she can have her around all she wants. Remember I'm the odd one out of this poly family or poly ship, so shouldn't I be the one to leave?

What I'm curious about, then, is this. How do you go from this --

"Right now, there are days where I don't even want her at our house."
"I won't say that I'm miserable. I'm not by any shot, but I'm happier when her girlfriend isn't around like the plague."
"If she has to stay around, there will be certain days, and I can't go for back to back days. I don't want to see anybody 24 hours. Everybody needs time to breathe. There must be a break in between. If she has to stay in my wife's life, I don't want her to be part of everything we do."
"Examples of what I can live with. If I'm working overnight, which isn't unusual, it's cool if she's there with my wife. I know they have their Lifetime movie nights. Saves me from crazy movie central. No issue. She comes over on Sunday's to watch that show Downton Abbey, maybe? Cool, but here's the problem. She doesn't leave that night or the following morning or even ask if we mind if she stays longer than expected. It's assumed that it's wanted by both of us."

-- all of which speaks of needing to find a workable middle ground, to refusing to acknowledge her presence in the space of three days time? Physical and emotional space, yes, of course, good idea. But isn't deciding that she essentially doesn't exist for you taking the idea of "I need more space" to an extreme? When did this hard shift occur, and why?

It occurred when I finally confronted her and let everything be known. That wasn't just a couple of months worth of resentment. According to our therapist, that was years worth of back up. Dislike at that level doesn't form overnight or a few months. It was hidden and masked. The recent events were a trigger and set off a domino effect until it all collapsed. An interesting question was asked of me. "Is it possible that you never really wanted her around, and you never felt comfortable saying it and decided to just ignore that and continue on?" I probably didn't want her around from the very first day. Did I hope that it was phase? It's possible. Did I want to change my wife? Well, I know I couldn't do that, so let's see. It was accept my wife and her lifestyle or lose the woman I loved. Which was the lesser of two evils? Love blinds you, and the honeymoon phase makes you accept things you wouldn't under ordinary circumstances. Ask me what my relationship with her girlfriend was like. If I see you, I'm going to speak. If not, it's not a big deal. I never viewed her as a close, lifetime mate that would be there until the end. We didn't get "close" until my wife's second pregnancy. A huge part of that was probably due to it being a complicated pregnancy and having to join forces to be strong for her. After that, we decided to try and develop a real friendship. Friendships don't happen overnight. It worked, but some people are meant to be seasonal and not last forever. We had things in common, and it was going well. A relationship was born a few months later, and it died soon after. Somebody brought up sleeping together. It happened a few times. The first being during a threesome. After it started feeling weird and the guilt kicked in, that stopped. I was honest and told her that I'd prefer to establish intimacy in other ways outside of physically. I explained that it felt like I was cheating and just plain awkward, so it came to an end. The discussion of having kids stopped right there, too. I hoped those particular feelings would go away, but if anything they became more lucid by the day. That relationship couldn't have been saved. I could and would never love her or give her any part of me including kids. Could I have kept stringing her along? Sure, but that wouldn't have been right.

You yourself said --
"Much like a woman who had prior children from a previous marriage, it became a package deal."

If, over the course of a few months, you decided you were sick of your partner's adult child from a previous marriage (not, as far as I can tell, because that person is a bad person, but because they're just around too much), and then very suddenly revealed it to your partner and said child, would you consider it acceptable to then immediately bar that person from your presence and pretend they didn't exist? I mean, where is the rational middle ground? What happened to just asking that she be around less? What on earth happened in the last three days to change your feelings so radically?
I would limit my contact with that adult child. They wouldn't be banned from the house. If they came by to visit, I'd speak and go back to wherever I was. Life happened and the middle ground is gone. The argument with her brought forth a lot of truth. Everything I said was prior to the argument. Shit happens and changes. Her feelings came out as well. Maybe hers were just from a place of hurt, but I'm not going to be disrespected in my house. From that second forward, I decided that she wasn't allowed at our home or in my life. Not a huge loss in my opinion.

For the record, I don't even care that she won't attend a joint session. What I do care about is that her blowing it off clearly hurt my wife. That's the only thing that did bother me. If she cared so much about her family, she should have shown up regardless as to whether or not I was there. If she cares so much about my wife and our kids, there's no reason why she shouldn't have been there. She doesn't have to say anything to me during any of these sessions. I can talk at her and not to her. I know that's not the correct way of communicating, but it beats the hell out of another argument starting or one of us walking out. Works for me. To me, her blowing it off shows that she doesn't care that much. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

She's an adult, but she's not a child or step-child of mine. She's not someone I have to be concerned with or even have to maintain a relationship or friendship with outside the parameters of our respective jobs. If I don't want her in my personal life, she's not going to be. Are all of your co-workers involved in your personal lives? If I don't want to hear about her, I shouldn't have to. I don't view her as being part of our family, so why should she have any say about anything family related? Especially anything that pertains to our kids. My wife's view is extremely different from what I see. I'm doing a nesting thing of sorts, which is normal after having kids or reaching a certain age. The way it was explained to me is that some poly people lock down and go into monogamous mode after having kids. Others are happy to have the support. We're in two different lanes. I see my wife and our children in this stage. I don't see her girlfriend as part of this picture. My wife's idea of nesting means having both of us as spouses, an enmeshed family, where she's a partner in this marriage, co-parent, and all this and that. I don't consider her a partner in my marriage. If that's the case, hell maybe we need to renew our vows so I can include her the second time. There's goes my sarcasm again.
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