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Old 03-09-2013, 04:30 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pennsyl-tucky
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Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
Hi Jane, I used to consider myself agnostic (little 'a') but now consider myself a de-facto atheist (little 'a'). It was not a shift in belief, only in semantics. Technically, I'm both agnostic and atheist ('as agnostic about god as I am the tooth fairy' I believe Dawkins put it) but if we interpret agnostisism to mean unsure and atheist to mean firmly in the belief that the notion that a supernatural being exists that created everything and spends its time listening to prayers and suchlike* is a notion not worth entertaining until there is cause to do so then - and I don't want to tell you what you are or aren't but from your description, our position is identical.
I would agree that our position is, likely, so closely aligned as to be virtually akin to "identical" - and a difference in "semantics" predominantly. I would be perfectly happy to identify as an (little 'a') atheist if there wasn't that niggling little word "belief" intrinsic in so many of the common definitions of the word. "Belief" implies "knowledge without evidence" and I am not THAT invested in the supposed answer to that supposed question.

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Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
Jane Q Smythe, you sound like a sane person. I'm so excited to virtually meet you.
Thank you, "you sound like a sane person" may be the nicest compliment that I have been paid today!

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Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
Ooh, the much neglected question of free-will. Did I bring this up earlier? Jane, I think you hit the nail on the head again; there seems to be no reason to believe in free-will as we are purely circumstantial entities.
I don't actually know if you brought it up...but these concepts are all tied together for me, and someone around here had caused me to re-think my thoughts on this recently (incidentally, I just re-thought them, they didn't change). For me, these metaphysical discussions are interesting - although not life-changing in terms of my ACTIONS, just my perspectives...which becomes part of my "circumstances"...so maybe more insidiously influential than it would seem on first glance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
Now, here's an interesting point that I'd imagine has popped up on this forum more than once. Poly marriage rights. I wonder how much of a legal headache it would be to decriminalise it. What exactly is in our way here? Also, I think it's important to specify what we're talking about. Firstly, as with gay marriage, I don't think church leaders should be forced to marry anyone. Secondly, I don't think that church leaders should have any autority to legally marry anyone as church and state should be separate. Thirdly, I don't know precicely what marriage entitles (and it varies from country to country of course) but how would it translate to a poly marriage? Would it need to even? Perhaps a poly marriage only needs to be a collection of marriages.
For me this is making things much more complicated than it needs to be. I'll leave the "church" side out - they can make their own rules as long as they don't rule the day from the legal side. No, they shouldn't be "forced" to do anything - and what they choose to do/not do shouldn't affect anyone except church members. From the legal/government side - I would pick a model that viewed marriage as a "contract" and allow the the participants to outline what "contract" they were agreeing to (financial support, provisions for children produced, sexual exclusivity if applicable, etc.). There are some pretty complicated "business contracts" out there, the fact that there is no ONE standard "business contract" doesn't mean that no-one can have one. The same should apply to the "marriage contract." The government's role should be limited to a.) enforcing contracts b.) protecting basic human rights c.) protecting civil rights of citizens (i.e. non-discrimination) and d.) collecting taxes to pay for expenses associated with a/b/c.

JaneQ
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" V-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (24+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (5+ yrs) and MrS's BFF
SLeW: platonic girlfriend and BFF
Lotus: "it's complicated"
+ "others" = FBs, FWBs, lover-friends, platonic G/BFs, boytoys, etc.


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 03-09-2013 at 04:40 AM.
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