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Old 01-06-2010, 04:26 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Others here either see sex negatively or have decided to accept mainstream sex-negativity.
I'm sorry, I don't understand who you are directing this too, me? and what you mean by this.... could you please clarify for us? Perhaps a definition of sex positive and negative? Your version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
It's been admitted here that some are willing to cut sex out of polyamory if it will put them in a positive or favorable light for their would be persecutors. They do this to save their children. Others have qualified this decision as being "good" parents. I don't qualify it as positive or the makings of a good parent. It is simply what it is. A choice made.
you are right, it is a choice. Did you hear when I said that I didn't like making that choice? Just wondering, cause I feel a little like you are telling me I am not a good parent. Are you directing this towards me? If you aren't, perhaps you could use a different way of stating your opinion that doesn't come across as judgmental?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Change has never happened quietly or by acquiescing to oppression. Any identity that you can put ahead of "rights" has had battles whether they were battles of philosophy or battles where blood ran in the streets. Some speak of ideals here with such contempt all while hiding from the reality. Clinging to *gasp* an ideal that if you just keep your heads down and not associate with "those people," not draw too much attention to yourselves, it will be ok. Patting each other on the back as if modeling that behavior is showing children independence and how to stand up for their rights as people.
This seems very vague to me and again feels like it is in some way directed at me. Do you think I am clinging to ideals? Do you think I am hiding from reality? Do you think I am not associating with people as a way of hiding? to make it okay? If so, how? I don't get where you are getting this from.... I take this all personally and perhaps that is not where I should take it, but I do, so correct me if I am wrong in that.... If you are talking about people in general, some people in general, who are not writing on here, but our society/culture/country... then I would be more willing to engage in that kind of conversation as I think you are right in a lot of cases. I just need some clarification first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Members of the queer community stood up one year and said fuck this shit. Women did the same. People of color did the same. People the world over have done the same. They stood up and said "this is who we are and it is not who you are but we are human. We demand equal rights."
Yes and I was one of those queers fighting for what queer women take for granted now. My mother was one of those women, with her kids on each side of her. Ironic now isn't it that 30 years later we can't even talk to each other.... yet she raised the person I am, similar values coming head to head. I would go on and clarify what my childhood was like as the daughter of a women's rights activist, but I feel I have put myself out there too much and that it will only cause more judgment from you at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
But hey perhaps I am not acknowledging something. Many here run from even the term "oppression" because they're not used to it. They are taught that oppressed people are to blame for their own oppression as though they existed in a vacuum with a phantom oppressor. Similar to the mentality that a raped woman was to blame for her rape. They are taught this view or they are simply taught to ignore oppression, it's source and how it effects others. Unlike many, they have inhabited the proverbial normative center for most of their lives, are used to privilege in most aspects of their lives and see no reason why they should care about oppression. Bleeding hearts just end up bloody. Too much trouble and mess. Why not go the easy path in the rare instance where oppression does touch their lives and "pass." Passing is not new. It's been done by many within oppressed groups. Pass for white. Pass for straight. Pass for normal. Pass for someone who agrees with normative values.
Again, directed towards me? Do you think I am blaming oppressed people for my oppression? Do you think I am trying to "pass" with everyone in my life? Yes, I go for passing sometimes... why? because that is how I have chosen to quietly make change that has worked in the past.... after I stopped yelling at people and being angry and frustrated about the world. I just shut people out with this approach, it didn't work for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
The ones who choose to pass are not usually the ones instrumental in bringing the changes that end up benefiting them and allowing them to stop pretending.
I have no idea what you just said here.... say again? Maybe my response above was enough? In a nutshell, I disagree with your last statement.... you sound like my anarchist friend... he talks like you do. Do you identify as an anarchist?
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