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Old 02-06-2013, 04:25 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 1,923

You know, I read something on this board, have a strong reaction to what I've read, decide not to post my strong reaction for various reasons, and then NYCindie goes and says what I was thinking. Just happened again.

I didn't post my reactions because I've said some brutal things to you in the course of this thread. You've been gracious enough to consider them. But you are a grown woman who makes up her own mind and I figured, at some point, there is little point in posting my rants on your situation. It's not my life, you're the one who has to deal with the consequences, etc.

So here's the rant. I completely understand if you ignore it.

Originally Posted by Numina View Post
Airyn: As I recall I was angry about more then one thing. Like you reading my letter before I gave you permission. And she is moving it's the plan, it's a done deal.

Me: I'm sorry you were angry, are you still angry?

Airyn: I guess not, I'm trying not to think about it.

Me: Hmm. I know that feeling. Not thinking about the things that bother you.
Tell me does Chipmunk know that you have a key logger on her computer?

Airyn: Are you trying to justify reading my letter early?

Me: No Just asking a question.

Airyn: No not specifically, but she knows I can see everything she types, just not how I do it.

Me: Do you still feel that you have nothing to hide?

Airyn: silence

Airyn and I have always had access to each others informations. Logins and passwords to everything. We have one book with all our login and passwords saved in it. We've talked about this many many times. Airyn has always maintained that he has nothing to hide, and I have said the same thing. When we were teens I used to write things and leave it in places for him to find. He used to go through my things and read the notes I left him. I think this was the first time that Airyn truly realized there is a trust issue between us. It's an issue that has been building for months. Starting back when Chipmunk was working much farther away, and getting worse when he obviously deleted messages he sent her from my phone back in November. As well as a few other incidents.
WTF with the key logger!! That is not normal. Do you realize that is not normal? Did he do that to you in the course of your relationship? Why does he have a key logger on her computer? Do you have a key logger when Wolf uses the computer? While I don't agree with that, it is more understandable - you want to monitor what your child is doing online.

CHIPMUNK IS NOT A CHILD. And it doesn't matter she kinda sorta knows about it. She doesn't have a clue what a healthy relationship looks like. And I am really starting to believe that Airyn, at least with Chipmunk and maybe with you, doesn't either.

It's one thing when a couple shares their log-ons and passwords with each other. But actively monitoring a lover's computer activity via a key logger is at best controlling and at worst abusive. What is he looking for? Is he checking to see if she is cheating? Even if he is justifying this by trying to save her from herself somehow, this is unacceptable behavior by a loved one. I would not tolerate this in any relationship. It really bothers me that you do, and that Chipmunk does. This is never, ever something you would do with a trusted partner, a loved one, in a healthy relationship.

Also that thing about reading his letter before he gave you 'permission'. That reeks of control issues too.

Originally Posted by Numina View Post
I'm not sure how to have him remove his name with out causing serious stress. Right now Chipmunk feels like the apartment she'll be getting is "their" apartment. Airyn isn't going to be signing anything else as a co-signer with her, but he may have his name as an occupant on her lease. Like I have Wolf as an occupant on my lease. Not sure if that will work.

Basically I told him that anything he signs with her not only are they 100% financially responsible, but I am 100% financially responsible. I also told him that the flip side of this means that since he signed it and has 100% control, that I also have 100% control. I think saying it like that may make it easier to get Chipmunk to back down from wanting Airyn's name on everything she signs up for.

I may tell her that since they now have a joint account, and any mistakes she makes will now effect me that she has to show me everything that is going on with the account. Which is a level of control that I don't want, and she won't appreciate. I'll talk with Airyn more about it and see if we can get an agreement that once she has her apartment she remove Airyn from the account (or closes it). And save her money in an account that is just hers.

Sadly it's not just my decision to make.
You will have even more serious stress when your credit is downgraded and you can't get a car loan at a decent rate, or refinance your home without extra points and higher interest, or Wolf can't get a college loan through her parents. This can all happen. I'm struggling to refinance in part because of the credit ding (there are other things going on there too, like the huge drop in the value of my home but it is a factor).

Also this business about you having 100% control over Chipmunk's finances, and seeing everything. That will never work. She won't agree to that, nor should she. My ex is mature, stable, and manages her mental health (she is bipolar). Chipmunk is none of that. (I hope she grows into that. I do. But she ain't there now.) What happens if/when her and Airyn's relationship flames out?

Suck it up and cause stress now, before your financial future is harmed.

This whole thing about opening a bank account and having him on the lease in some way allows her to play house and have him as her 'husband' for a few days a week. She does not need a bank account in both their names to be Airyn's girlfriend. Having his name on the lease in some way does not make him more of a boyfriend. They will still have 'their' space because, well they will spend time in that space being boyfriend and girlfriend. Someone more emotionally mature would know that but she is not clearly not there.

Why is Airyn supporting this? Does he not see the financial risk he is putting you and Wolf in? I suspect it is because he does not think she will stay with him unless he takes care of her in some way. And I believe he is right - she may well dump him if he stops being so unbelievably codependent and treats her like an actual adult. He can be her boyfriend and support and love her - and allow her to make mistakes, maybe learn from them and grow up.

This whole thing is so disturbingly parental - and not in a good way. This is how messed up parents act when they want their children to remain dependent. This probably seems normal to Chipmunk but it is really worrying that it seems normal to Airyn. Does he realize this is harmful to her? And him? And you? How he is acting now helps to keep her dependent, needy and moody. He is spending a buttload of time managing and massaging her moods. This prevents her from learning to manage her own moods. Yes, he should be supportive of her - this shit is hard to learn for everyone. But he is externalizing the work she needs to do internally. He can model good emotional behavior for her - except he does not seem to know good emotional behavior right now.

He likely enjoys being her white knight and saving her from all the bad things but it is terribly destructive. It damages him, her and you and might well end up costing your marriage, as well as their relationship.

As for it not being your decision, yes, technically true. But there are consequences when the actions of a partner may cause harm to you, your marriage, your future and your child's future.

He can choose not to remove his name from the account. And you can divorce him. Extreme yes. Not what you want, yes. I know he does not want to leave you either. Maybe you can divorce and still be partners and parents together. Maybe re-marry when he recovers from losing his fucking mind. But this situation may come to the point where you may need to chose to protect yourself and your daughter first.

I was also hopeful when I read that Chipmunk had decided to move out. I am glad you put your foot down on that. Moving out will help with many of the issues. However, it won't solve the fact that their relationship is a destructive, unhealthy one and that he is codependent and controlling. And this reality will continue to negatively impact you and your relationship with him. If he is not willing to face his behaviors and decisions, well, you may have unpleasant choices to make.
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