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Old 01-06-2013, 04:37 AM
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Helo Helo is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Posts: 278

I would really like to hear your ideas for how to really curb and deal with that behaviour. It makes me feel like punching people in the face, so I have a hard time imagining how to make it better. And I could really use some hope in that direction right now.
Hmm, hope I'm not to sure I can provide, but some form of resolution, why not?


That's it. That's the plan.


We have to look at the parts of the problem we can reasonably expect to effect and change. Aggressive, dickish behavior has been around since time was only now we cant channel it off by sending the boys off to raid a neighboring city. The impulse to be a jerk will ALWAYS be there and the (perceived) anonymity as well as the false courage online games give to people will be a perfect staging ground for it as long as it exists.

Since we cant change human nature or the fundamental structures of the internet, what CAN we change?

We can change the way we interact with each other and focus on changing our attitudes towards other people. As things become more socially accepted, the targeting of them drops off. When I started gaming, "fag" was the insult du jure for other gamers. As the LGBTQ community has come into it's own and been accepted, the use of that particular slur has dropped sharply because fewer and fewer people will tolerate its use. As more and more women come into gaming, the truly misogynistic attitudes will simply be sidelined and ignored while the jerks will move on to something else. This is a process that is already ongoing and shows no signs of slowing down.

People are already marginalizing and shutting out people who truly have these ideas that we find abhorrent. That process is going on socially as well as in our digital societies and what we need to do is wait for that process to come around to the issues we find important. We can help accelerate that by creating and nurturing environments that reform the behavior of jerks and sideline true misogynists.

I play EVE Online regularly and one thing I absolutely demand from a corp (in game group) is that they have at least one female player among them. I do that because I now have an idea that that group is likely going to be more mature and more accepting of different kinds of gamers, including women. If more people start doing things like that and actively voicing that they dont want to be a part of a group that is going to treat other people negatively, you'll see that push speed up even more.

I still don't understand how it's shallow to have preferences and boundaries.
Its not. The author's approach is the difference between "I dont date Catholics because Catholicism and Catholics tend to share values that I disagree strongly with" and "I dont date Catholics because they're Catholic."

One is a stated preference, the other is an implied inferiority. It may sound like a small difference but, in the words of a famous man, like a small piece of glass lodged in the urinary tract, small things can cause big problems.

I don't think she would have been under any delusions that she would not get negative responses. But the maelstrom was completely out of proportion (again).
Then I have to question why she wrote the article. If she wanted to warn people, why create a horror story out of something that isnt really a horror story?

Oh, and thanks very much for bringing it to a separate thread!
No prob I think its an interesting topic that bears discussion.
I am as direct as a T-Rex with 'roid rage and about as subtle. It isn't intended to cause upset, I just prefer to talk plain. There are plenty of other people here who do the nice, polite thing much better than I can. I'm what you'd call a "problem dinner guest."
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